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Mike_Bailey
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Reged: 26/02/07
Posts: 2289
Loc: GB
Lead sled and stocks
      #105313 - 16/05/08 09:04 PM

A question to everyone out there. Shooting big calibres from a benchrest is no fun for me. After a bit of research I bought a Caldwell DFT lead sled. For a review see: http://www.chuckhawks.com/caldwell_lead_sled_DFT.htm

It is a great piece of kit for sighting stuff in and reduces recoil unbelieavably. Firing 12 bore slugs from a bench is a pain, with this thing it is no problem at all. It is fully adjustable and a joy to use. Note that it does not stop the gun recoiling, in theory I think it merely "artificially" adds weight to the gun. The author of the review above only ever uses a max of 2 bags of lead shot on the tray i.e. 50lbs total lead and shoots his bolt action .458 Mag rifle off it.For interest a .45-70 weighing 10lbs shooting a 500 grain bullet at 1750 FPS has free recoil of approx 37ft.lbs, with 2 bags of lead the free recoil drops to 4.42 ft lbs, about the same as a .223 ! NOW comes the question, I have heard that people have suffered broken stocks using recoil tamers but I suspect that is because the rifle wasn't allowed to recoil at all. I think I saw something on this forum regarding a broken stock and sandbags. When my .470 O/U arrives I am going to try it and see what the results are. I know groups off a bench probably won't be good but I would be very interested to hear from anyone with direct experience. By the way, I thoroughly reccomend the Guns and Shooting Online site (www.chuckhawks.com), no onnection, just a happy viewer
best
Mike

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9.3x57
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Reged: 22/04/07
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Re: Lead sled and stocks [Re: Mike_Bailey]
      #105329 - 17/05/08 01:58 AM

Mike, what timing.

Funny you should mention this because I was at an NRA dinner last week and I won one {I also won a shotgun...!} in a lottery drawing. I would never have bought one because I have always feared the broken stock issue and I am thinking of selling it because of that. But it was a free deal so I took it.

For one thing, I have to wonder about the POI of a rifle that is zeroed in the sled and then shot from the shoulder. With a heavy double shot only at close range that might not be a problem, but I'm not sure.

The other issue, broken stocks, I would think might crop up either at once if there is not enough give and the recoil is severe enough or over time if many shots are fired either at one setting or cumulatively over the life of the gun. Trouble with the sled is that the shooter really doesn't know what is happening until...that nasty little line shows up at the tang, wrist, etc and then of course it is too late.

I know that broken stocks have forever been an issue with military rifles firing rifle grenades, particularly when the gun is backed up with a brick wall, curb {verge}, hard ground, etc.

I'd be interested to hear what others have to say about this topic.

BTW, I know a fellow who has one {I've never shot a gun from the sled} and he says just like you the thing STOPS recoil, and he has shot a number of slug guns and says in total agreement with you that the things can be shot all day from the sled.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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xausa
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Re: Lead sled and stocks [Re: 9.3x57]
      #105334 - 17/05/08 03:56 AM

I have used my home made version for about 35 years now, with no ill effects. I think the factor to keep in mind is to avoid percussion: that is, to be sure to keep the rifle butt firmly placed against the vertical element of the device designed to receive it, so that it doesn't crash into it when the rifle is fired.

In high school physics class we were shown that if you dropped a metal plate with an egg placed on top of it, the egg would shatter when the plate struck the floor. However, if you taped the egg to the plate, so that the impact with the floor was simultaneous with both the plate and the egg, then the egg would remain intact.

This means that the normal bench rest technique of holding the rifle only loosely when firing the shot is a bad idea. The rifle must be held firmly and pulled toward the rear.

My primary interest in using my gadget was to provide a platform from which to chronograph loads and to zero my magazine rifles. I don't recall using one for my double rifles, but I may have at some time. The accuracy I obtained was quite satisfactory, however.

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butchloc
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Re: Lead sled and stocks [Re: xausa]
      #105336 - 17/05/08 04:46 AM

i made one a few years ago, but haven't used it much. when i have i've had no problems. on mine the rifle can move backwards a bit(about 2")during recoil

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DUGABOY1
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Re: Lead sled and stocks [Re: Mike_Bailey]
      #105346 - 17/05/08 06:21 AM

Quote:

A question to everyone out there. Shooting big calibres from a benchrest is no fun for me. After a bit of research I bought a Caldwell DFT lead sled. For a review see: http://www.chuckhawks.com/caldwell_lead_sled_DFT.htm

It is a great piece of kit for sighting stuff in and reduces recoil unbelieavably. Firing 12 bore slugs from a bench is a pain, with this thing it is no problem at all. It is fully adjustable and a joy to use. Note that it does not stop the gun recoiling, in theory I think it merely "artificially" adds weight to the gun. The author of the review above only ever uses a max of 2 bags of lead shot on the tray i.e. 50lbs total lead and shoots his bolt action .458 Mag rifle off it.For interest a .45-70 weighing 10lbs shooting a 500 grain bullet at 1750 FPS has free recoil of approx 37ft.lbs, with 2 bags of lead the free recoil drops to 4.42 ft lbs, about the same as a .223 ! NOW comes the question, I have heard that people have suffered broken stocks using recoil tamers but I suspect that is because the rifle wasn't allowed to recoil at all. I think I saw something on this forum regarding a broken stock and sandbags. When my .470 O/U arrives I am going to try it and see what the results are. I know groups off a bench probably won't be good but I would be very interested to hear from anyone with direct experience. By the way, I thoroughly reccomend the Guns and Shooting Online site (www.chuckhawks.com), no onnection, just a happy viewer
best
Mike



The lead-sled is OK for some rifles, but should never be used with a double rifle! This is more detramental with a side by side than an over under, but it will not give you a proper regulation with either one. A double rifle depends on the recoil arch to regulate properly. A double rifle should never touch anything other that a shooter's shoulder, face, and hands! The double rifle must absolutely be allowed to recoil as if being fired off hand, to work properly. You may rest the rifle on sand bags, but only if your hand is between the bag and the rifle, with the rifle being gripped by the hand. The butt, should not be rested on anything but resting against your shoulder. A good PAST recoil shield is the equiptment you need. Even if the sled doesn't break your stock, the rifle will not regulate properly whan one is used with a double rifle!

--------------------
..........Mac >>>===(x)===>
DUGABOY1, and MacD37 founding member of DRSS www.doublerifleshooterssociety.com
"If I die today, I have had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"

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Mike_Bailey
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Re: Lead sled and stocks [Re: DUGABOY1]
      #105348 - 17/05/08 07:24 AM

Thanks for all the input. I don't want to regulate the rifle off the sled. But I do want to know why some folk claim they are death on stocks. For example, lets say I have a .375 double which has a QD scope. I want to sight the left barrel in off the sled ( then freehand to check). Why should the stock suffer ? maybe hundreds of rounds I could fathom but otherwise the physics make no sense to me. best, Mike

(also why not sight the scope into the middle of both barrel groups at 100 yds ? sorry if I am being an idiot.)

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Bramble
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Re: Lead sled and stocks [Re: Mike_Bailey]
      #105367 - 17/05/08 11:08 AM

Whilst I can see the use of an artifical device for holding a rifle for chrono or test purposes. I cannot see the point for zeroing. The POI will be totally different to that acchieved in hunting stances.
If the rifle does not free recoil then it can be no other way. That is doubles or bolt or indeed lever guns. Pistols are even worse.
A 375 H+H should not be particually unpleasent to shoot from an upright sitting position at a bench. If it is then the gun fit is way off or it is too light or the loading has been hotrodded.
A quilted sand or shot bag set made "saddle bag" style and hung over the shooting shoulder will take a lot of sting out if a protracted session is contemplated.
As I said to 9.3 x 57 in another thread, I am no fan of recoil, I think that it is detrimental to good shooting but other than my opening remarks I cannot see a use for lead sleds otherwise.

Regards

Edited by Bramble (17/05/08 11:52 AM)

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9.3x57
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Re: Lead sled and stocks [Re: Bramble]
      #105370 - 17/05/08 11:26 AM

Thanks Mike for kicking me in the pants and getting me curious...

I am still uncertain about the effect a solid, unmoveable sled would make on a fine double stock, especially when lots of shots are fired, but hell's bell's, I'm not arguing with Xausa one little bit!!

But as for the zeroing WITH A BULL-BARRELLED, ONE-PIECE-STOCKED RIFLE, I noticed no change.

I left work a wee bit early today, raced home and loaded the Series 11 Ranger with my varmint-shooting kit and headed for my pine plantation. I shot four more, making the total for the year an even 100.

I've never used one of these sleds until today, so I was really curious as to what it might do to POI with my heavy barrel .223.

Here's the setup with the first kill of the evening:



After we clearcut and burned, the ground was clear for a couple years and shots were easy. Now the rascals have lots of cover to hide behind. This means many shots are head only, and a squirrel at even 70 meters like this one giving only a look-see at his eyeballs is a tough shot. The SLED did not seem to have any impact on, well, impact...that is, POI. Here's one that was laying behind a log, and only peeked over for a moment. All I had was eyeball, and that's what I took:



Shooting off the deck on the Ranger makes it all pretty easy I guess, if the shots comply, but the Lead Sled seemed to be a real help, and my old handmade rests might just get backburned...



--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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Bramble
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Re: Lead sled and stocks [Re: 9.3x57]
      #105371 - 17/05/08 12:05 PM

9.3

A heavy 223 is almost a recoiless rifle. :-)

For the sake of science, would you be kind enough to shoot a hunting weight medium caliber that you have previously sighted in offhand on the sled and comment on the POI, I don't have access to one or I would myself.

TIA

BTW That is not what I imagined we were discussing. The ones that I have seen are litraly a wooden contrivence (sled) to which the gun is affixed with clamps. It is weighted with, guess what, lead or sand. It slides along the grass under recoil. I have seen a version also with a spring that is pegged into the ground. A similer spring loaded carriage on rails is also what the London Proof House clamps your rifle into for testing.

Perhaps this device would allow free recoil and a POI consistant with offhand shooting. That would be very usefull for regulation.



Regards

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9.3x57
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Re: Lead sled and stocks [Re: Bramble]
      #105372 - 17/05/08 12:18 PM

Indeed, you are right, the .223 is recoilless... I was more or less just starting the Inquisition.

OK, now the bull-barrelled thing shoots OK.

As you say, I need to test my hunting rifles from sled and from sitting. Note, I had no added weight in the "shelves" or whatever they are called.

As I mentioned earlier, for a 50-meter rifle, I don't think it would matter much. At 200+ yards? Maybe so. We must rezero or fine-tune many of our rifles from sitting after rough zeroing from the bench.

I am going to guess that every rifle is a law unto its own. SOME no doubt will comply with Sled Zeroing, and many others, not. As for stock cracking, I don't see why many guns wouldn't break after many rounds were fired. I'm no engineer, but it seems to me that a buttstock backed up by something that doesn't give at all would tend to splinter, just like if you hold a wooden tentpeg in your hand and beat it with a mallet, it does nothing but strain your wrist. Place the tent peg against a concrete shop floor and whack it and the thing blurs over or cracks.

Xausa, how many rounds have you fired FROM YOUR SLED with your .505? I'm guessing here that the zeroing process calls for fairly limited rounds fired? The rest then fired off your for-"giving" shoulder? Did you fine tune and zero the .505 off your shoulder after getting it "on paper" with your device? Got me curious, now!

If so, this thing could come in awfully helpful for me with my coming shotgun round ball project.

PS: I'm probably over-ANALysing this, but if you look here you see the deck is mounted on a vehicle suspension. There is a bit of "squish" but I doubt it allows a significant difference in vibration from a solid bench. But maybe so?



--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

Edited by 9ThreeXFifty7 (17/05/08 10:17 PM)

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Mike_Bailey
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Re: Lead sled and stocks [Re: 9.3x57]
      #105424 - 18/05/08 06:31 AM

Bramble, I am not discussing regulating a DR or indeed even getting barrels to print POI, what I want to know is whether it could be detrimental to fire a bolt, single shot, DR or semi auto from a lead sled ? physics seems to ay as long as the rifle CAN recoil, albeit from a much "heavier" start position, it shouldn't be a problem. Lets see if 9threeX57 can bang off a few shots from a big hitter. best, Mike

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9.3x57
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Re: Lead sled and stocks [Re: Mike_Bailey]
      #105440 - 18/05/08 09:18 AM

Gents, those of you that own one of these things can see how the "sled" {it isn't actually, it has three "legs", the rear being adjustable for elevation} can be weighted with LOTS or no additional weight.

My thoughts are, if no additional weight is added to the sled, it would probably present no troubles as it would approximate the resistance presented by the bench firing of a big strong ox of a man. However, if you had that thing stacked to the gunwales with lead shot, it might not move at all, that is, the inertia would be great and in such a position the resistance to the stock would approximate backing the butt of the gun up to a brick wall and having at it. The forces applied by the metal parts of the gun to the unmoving wooden parts would be great and, as with military rifles fired with rifle grenades, may be enough to allow setback of the metal parts into the wood, and thus cracking it.

But the thing is, these Lead Sleds have been around a while, and my assumption is they have been fired with a large number of heavy rifles, and if the problem of stock cracking was great and recurring, they would be outta biz, as I can't imagine the types of fellows who own $30,000 rifles letting a company get away with marketing a log splitter as a gun rest.

Xausa, can you post a picture of your device? Does it "give" at all against recoil?

The zero shift is of course another issue. I plan to check that in the future, so I'm not done with this thing.

Unfortunately, I don't have a heavy hitter to whack away with.

Now, if somebody would like to loan me their heavy, with enough ammo to do a proper test...say...1000 rounds or a bit more...I'd be happy to give her a try...

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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Bramble
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Re: Lead sled and stocks [Re: 9.3x57]
      #105442 - 18/05/08 09:44 AM

Mike , you are quite right, the conversation had gone a little off topic.

As I said a couple of paragraps before. If what we are discussing is the apperatus that 9.3 has then it is not what I have seen refered to as a "sled". So I have no real idea.
However on general principles if the butt is hard against anything, be it a shoulder or a wall then the energy has to go somewhere. If it is a shoulder then the body and the person moves to absorb the energy. If it is a wall then the stock will have to absorb all the force by compressing or bending. Now at what point in between those two extremes damage will/may be caused to the stock I do not know. I would depend on the ammount of deceleration that the stock can cope with before splitting. If the rate of decelleration can be adjusted to replicate that produced by the human body then no damage should occur to the stock. That having been said however most of us have seen stocks split about their crossbolts when they have never been fired other than from the shoulder.

Regards

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DUGABOY1
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Re: Lead sled and stocks [Re: Mike_Bailey]
      #105445 - 18/05/08 10:08 AM

Quote:

Thanks for all the input. I don't want to regulate the rifle off the sled. But I do want to know why some folk claim they are death on stocks. For example, lets say I have a .375 double which has a QD scope. I want to sight the left barrel in off the sled ( then freehand to check). Why should the stock suffer ? maybe hundreds of rounds I could fathom but otherwise the physics make no sense to me. best, Mike

(also why not sight the scope into the middle of both barrel groups at 100 yds ? sorry if I am being an idiot.)



Mike The reason the stocks get broken is that the side by side double rifle's RIGHT barrel recoils "UP", "BACK",and to the to the "RIGHT", and the LEFT barrel recoils "UP", "BACK", And to the "LEFT"! This torgue to the right, and left places a strain on the weakest part of the stock, the wrist! Besides the rifle will not shoot properly! It will do you no good to zero the rifle from a reast where the rifle touches the rest, because when you shoot it off hand it will not shoot the same. I think you missunderstand what regulation means! First the word REGULATION, is amissnomer because it is not the working up of loads, but is a physical tweeking of the barrels by the maker! The scope should be zeroed the exact same way the iron sights are zeroed! By this I mean once a load is found that shoots to the rifles regulation, the sights, both scope, and irons should be zeroed exactly to the center of a four shot composit group of both barrels. If you load is correct for the rifle, the barrels will shoot side by side, from muzzle to infinity. You will never get a load that will shoot to the regulation of your rifle if you allow the rifle to touch anything other than your hands, face, and shoulder! This is because the rifle depends on the recoil arch to to shoot to the regulation, and it will never shoot properly from a dirrect resting of the rifle on anything! Sorry but that is othe most missunderstood habit of double rifles, and is the grimlin that makes the guy new to double rifles pull all his hair out!

--------------------
..........Mac >>>===(x)===>
DUGABOY1, and MacD37 founding member of DRSS www.doublerifleshooterssociety.com
"If I die today, I have had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"

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Mike_Bailey
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Re: Lead sled and stocks [Re: DUGABOY1]
      #105514 - 18/05/08 10:35 PM

OK, I get the torque/twist bit. I am interested in the scope thoughts though. It makes sense to me that if you shoot a 4 shot group with a scope, 2 lefts, 2 rights at, say 100 yds and get a 2" group why not sight the scope into the middle of the group ? Even the guy at Hollands said "sight the scope in for the left barrel only" but I can't see why. When the thing arrives (the .375) I am going to mess around a lot and try and sort the things out in my own head. In the meantime when the .470 O/U gets here (in 3 weeks or so I hope) I will try a couple off the sled with no lead (but the sled does add 20lbs of weight on its own) and report back. thx to everyone for the input, best, Mike

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DUGABOY1
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Re: Lead sled and stocks [Re: Mike_Bailey]
      #105526 - 19/05/08 01:25 AM

Quote:

OK, I get the torque/twist bit. I am interested in the scope thoughts though. It makes sense to me that if you shoot a 4 shot group with a scope, 2 lefts, 2 rights at, say 100 yds and get a 2" group why not sight the scope into the middle of the group ? Even the guy at Hollands said "sight the scope in for the left barrel only" but I can't see why. When the thing arrives (the .375) I am going to mess around a lot and try and sort the things out in my own head. In the meantime when the .470 O/U gets here (in 3 weeks or so I hope) I will try a couple off the sled with no lead (but the sled does add 20lbs of weight on its own) and report back. thx to everyone for the input, best, Mike



That is what I said in my post above! The scope should be sighted in to the exact POA as the irons sights, which is the center of a four shot composite group of both barrels!

Quote:

from my other post

The scope should be zeroed the exact same way the iron sights are zeroed! By this I mean once a load is found that shoots to the rifles regulation, the sights, both scope, and irons should be zeroed exactly to the center of a four shot composit group of both barrels.




The use of any fixture to shoot a double rifle is nothing more that wasted very expensive ammo,because the double rifle will not shoot properly if the rifle touches anything other that the shooter! It is not the weight that does the damage to your shooting groups, it is that the rifle is touching the lead-sled. This interferes with the critical "FREE" recoil arch, and the rifle will simply not shoot properly! If you decide to go ahead with the sled anyway, I wish you good luck!

--------------------
..........Mac >>>===(x)===>
DUGABOY1, and MacD37 founding member of DRSS www.doublerifleshooterssociety.com
"If I die today, I have had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"

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mickey
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Re: Lead sled and stocks [Re: DUGABOY1]
      #105529 - 19/05/08 02:06 AM

Mac

I think the Right barrel recoils up and to the right and the left barrel recoils up and to the left of the center line of the rifle. I'm pretty sure you know that.

The reason for sighting the scope in for one particular barrel is to make sure that the first shot is as accurate as possible. With a sight in on one barrel a Double with a scope becomes as accurate as a single barrel rifle.

If you sight into the center of the group your bullet placement is only as good as your group size. Good enough for general hunting ranges but picture that Kudu at 350 yards and you with a gun that can only hope to shoot into a 12" circle with your best effort.

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.

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DUGABOY1
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Re: Lead sled and stocks [Re: mickey]
      #105530 - 19/05/08 03:16 AM

Quote:

Mac

I think the Right barrel recoils up and to the right and the left barrel recoils up and to the left of the center line of the rifle. I'm pretty sure you know that.



Damn it's crap to get old! The brain farts seem to just get more pervasive!

You are correct, the barrel being fired always recoils UP, BACK, and AWAY from the other barrel!

I have always had all my scoped doubles zeroed in at the same center POA as my irons, except for elevation, and I have no more trouble hitting a Muledeer, or elk at 250 yds, than I do with a single barreld rifle of the same caliber. A preperly loaded rifle for the regulation of the rifle, will consistantly post hits in the kill zone at 250 yds with either barrel! There is nothing wrong with zeroing the scope for only one barrel,if that is what you want to do, but that turns the scope into a specialized sight, that can't be depended on the replace a broken, or severly bent iron sight bead. I'd bet you I can hit your $200 Stetson hat at 250 yds with my 9.3X74R double rifle, with the scope zeroed in the center of the composite group!

--------------------
..........Mac >>>===(x)===>
DUGABOY1, and MacD37 founding member of DRSS www.doublerifleshooterssociety.com
"If I die today, I have had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"

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Mike_Bailey
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Re: Lead sled and stocks [Re: DUGABOY1]
      #105533 - 19/05/08 03:25 AM

Dugaboy, many thanks, I'm starting to get it BUT all the big London names regulate from a standing benchrest ?????!!!! Why ? No lead sled admittedly. best
Mike

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Bill_Cooley
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Re: Lead sled and stocks [Re: Mike_Bailey]
      #105543 - 19/05/08 07:55 AM

Mike,
The standing rest is used to reduce felt recoil. You still don’t let any part of the double rifle touch the bench. You rest your left hand on the bags and your right elbow on the bench to steady your shot. The rifle must not touch the bags.
Just as a aside I wonder how many shots it takes one of the top regulators to get a rifle regulated.
Bill

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Bramble
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Re: Lead sled and stocks [Re: Mike_Bailey]
      #105544 - 19/05/08 08:00 AM

Quote:

Dugaboy, many thanks, I'm starting to get it BUT all the big London names regulate from a standing benchrest ?????!!!! Why ? No lead sled admittedly. best
Mike



It is not a benchrest as one is ususlly described, it is a high table to put your elbows on and a place to rest the back of your front hand.

It is not a front rest supporting the forend and a bag under the butt.

Why is because nobody is good enough to get consistant results totally offhand, particually as they get tired. You would end up chasing human error.

Regards

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450_366
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Re: Lead sled and stocks [Re: Mike_Bailey]
      #105545 - 19/05/08 08:03 AM

I would have a hard time taking any of my rifles and slam it but first in the floor.
Isnt that exactly what a fixet rest would do to the rifle (not slamming it in the floor ofcourse ).

--------------------
Andreas

"Yeas it kicks like a mule he said, but always remember that its much worse standing on the other end"

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9.3x57
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Reged: 22/04/07
Posts: 5504
Loc: United States
Re: Lead sled and stocks [Re: 450_366]
      #105556 - 19/05/08 10:57 AM

Quote:

I would have a hard time taking any of my rifles and slam it but first in the floor.
Isnt that exactly what a fixet rest would do to the rifle (not slamming it in the floor ofcourse ).



That's it exactly.

Not many of us would place the butt of a fine gun against a brick wall and pull the trigger over and over again.

The thing is, the Lead Sled being made of steel tubing, has a bit of flex to it. Not sure if this is enough to matter if it is really weighted down.

An actual SLED is an interesting concept.

On a separate note, for a long while I've wanted to make a recoil measuring device, and the Caldwell Lead Sled seems to be a good candidate for a foundation for such a gizmo.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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bwananelson
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Reged: 08/10/07
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Re: Lead sled and stocks [Re: 9.3x57]
      #105580 - 19/05/08 02:26 PM

I MAY HURT SOME FEELINGS BUT IF YOU CANT HANDLE THE RECOIL DONT BUY THE GUN,I HAVE SHOT ALL WEAPONS UP TO A 50 BMG OFF THE BENCH FULL LOADS.IF YOU CANT HANDLE PRACTICE HOW WILL YOU RESPOND UNDER PRESSURE.HOW DOES A BOXER PREPARE FOR A FIGHT HE GETS PUNCHED GED USE TO IT THA MORE YOU SHOOT THE BETTER YOU GET TTHE 375 IS A PUSSYCAT,SO IS THE 300 WBY,THE 470 IS NOT A BONE BREAKER.POUR CEMENT ALL AHOUND THE GUN AND BOLT IT TO THE ROOF OF THE VEHICLE.YOU WANT TO PLAY THE GAME PREPARE TO BE SORE IT WILL PASS.I AM SORRY IF I HAVE STEPED ON SOME TOES BUT DOUBLES ARE NOT MEANT TO BE SHOT LIKE THIS.IF YOU CANT DO IT GET A BOLT WITH A GOOD BRAKE.SORRY AGAIN

--------------------
THERE ARE NO DO OVERS IN LIFE DONT LET A CHANCE AT A DREAM SLIP AWAY.

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450_366
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Reged: 17/01/07
Posts: 1068
Loc: Sweden, west-coast.
Re: Lead sled and stocks [Re: bwananelson]
      #105597 - 19/05/08 07:32 PM

Quote:

I MAY HURT SOME FEELINGS BUT IF YOU CANT HANDLE THE RECOIL DONT BUY THE GUN,I HAVE SHOT ALL WEAPONS UP TO A 50 BMG OFF THE BENCH FULL LOADS.IF YOU CANT HANDLE PRACTICE HOW WILL YOU RESPOND UNDER PRESSURE.HOW DOES A BOXER PREPARE FOR A FIGHT HE GETS PUNCHED GED USE TO IT THA MORE YOU SHOOT THE BETTER YOU GET TTHE 375 IS A PUSSYCAT,SO IS THE 300 WBY,THE 470 IS NOT A BONE BREAKER.POUR CEMENT ALL AHOUND THE GUN AND BOLT IT TO THE ROOF OF THE VEHICLE.YOU WANT TO PLAY THE GAME PREPARE TO BE SORE IT WILL PASS.I AM SORRY IF I HAVE STEPED ON SOME TOES BUT DOUBLES ARE NOT MEANT TO BE SHOT LIKE THIS.IF YOU CANT DO IT GET A BOLT WITH A GOOD BRAKE.SORRY AGAIN



Didnt think they were ment as benchrest rifles either.
Personally the recoil is much easyer to take standing so the sighting in a rifle in a bench is a thing a unlike. And thats in all rifles also smaller caliber. Nowing that it only needs a bad hit to the shoulder to be scared of it and about a couple of hundred round or so standing to get the flinch to move back in my brain again.

--------------------
Andreas

"Yeas it kicks like a mule he said, but always remember that its much worse standing on the other end"

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