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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Double Rifles

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8x56mn
.300 member


Reged: 26/02/04
Posts: 149
Loc: Wine Country, Finger Lakes Wa...
Doule guns
      #10379 - 29/02/04 01:57 AM

Hello, I'm new to this. I have recently taken a serious interest in hunting in Africa and have booked a hunt for this coming September, after some serious arm twisting from my friend who has been there several times. I'm going for Buff and plains game. I just purchased a nice used Merkle O/U with 1-1/2 -5 Leopold in 9.3x74 to take along. I also own several Mannlicker Schoenaurs and will take my favorite Mod 1908 8x56 that is a absoulute take driver out to 150 yards and have taken numerous White tails with to use for lighter plains game.

Can anyone give me some feed back on the 9.3, I know it's the minimum for DG. I am saving now for a 470 NE, and I am torm between the Merkle and Searcy PH model. Thanks for listening.


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mickey
.416 member


Reged: 05/01/03
Posts: 4647
Loc: Pend Oreille Valley, Idaho
Re: Doule guns [Re: 8x56mn]
      #10384 - 29/02/04 03:04 AM


Welcome to the forum, this is the place to talk about Doubles for sure.

If you have been reading some of the previous posts you know that the 9.3 has a lot of followers and users here. I don't think any of them will say you can't successfully take a Buff with one but it is the very bottom of the legal and power list. Don't buy into the hype that it is as good as a 375 Holland.

That being said, if you can shoot it and want to use it go ahead. It is not a charge stopper but well placed bullets will suffice and buffalo deserve a Double.

As to which 470 to get that is your choice. I would get neither, as I am a fan of the Brit guns and would rather have a used one of those than any of the low priced new rifles available.

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.


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475Guy
.400 member


Reged: 22/08/03
Posts: 1088
Loc: Kali, US
Re: Doule guns [Re: 8x56mn]
      #10395 - 29/02/04 06:53 AM

8X56, I suggest you look through the 9.3 threads, you might find what you're looking for there.

Mick, not everyone has the disposable cash to throw at an old English DB. We all have to make do with whatever comes along. Hell, I'd love to have a couple of H&H's in whatever caliber they come in but they're priced way out of my plebian price range.

--------------------
Lo do they call to me,
They bid me take my place among
them in the Halls of Valhalla,
Where the brave may live forever.


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ThomasEdwards
.300 member


Reged: 04/01/04
Posts: 246
Loc: Newport Beach, CA
9.3 vs. 375hh [Re: mickey]
      #10397 - 29/02/04 07:51 AM

mickey,

...appreciate your advice re the 9.3 double...

...re the 9.3 vs. 375hh, don't mean to dispute your views, and only note that many writers with extensive field experience with the 9.3 (x62 or x74r)(e.g., robertson, woods, taylor, etc.) say that it is perfectly adequate for buff and other similarly sized dg...indeed, when i look at the ballistics tables prepared by norma (see below post), i really can't see the advantage of the 375hh over the 9.3, unless the norma charts are not correct...

...what i really like about the 9.3 is the mating of the cartridge with a light, easily-carried, compact and manouverable double rifle, and the fact that you can obtain 375hh-like power and range with the recoil of a 270win/30.06...

...on this point, also wondering why the 375 flanged is not more popular?...lack of available cartridge makers?...limited gunmakers (e.g., uk vs. continental maker issue)?...

...lastly, seems to me the only choices for those who prefer rimmed-cartridge doubles is the 9.3x74r or 470ne...sort of like a 375hh vs. 458wm analogy in the turnbolt world...carrying that analogy forward, that would imply a need for a 416 rigby-like alternative in the rimmed market, which is what kreighoff has been aiming for with the introduction of the 416/500 round, i would suppose...

...alas, more food for argument and debate...


* * * * * * *


PREVIOUS POST

...i posted the below attached message on another chat board that may somewhat answer your question on whether to select a double in 9,3x74r or 375 flanged...

...as you may note, the norma ballistics charts show that the 9,3 may be superior to both the 375 flanged and the 375hh rounds in factory loadings at distances beyond 100 yards...

...of course those with extensive hunting experience may provide further insight on the actual field results of the various cartridges...

...if you go to www.norma.cc you will find a graphical ballistics chart that visually plots the trajectory, v and me of various cartridges that norma manufactures...

...for comparison purposes, and since my focus was on pre-regulated double rifles, i assumed the use of standard factory ammunition with bullets that i would actual use on a hunt (9,3 with 285 grain orxy; 375 with 300 grain barnes solid)...

...at 100 yards, the norma chart indicates the following results: 9,3/375 v = 2110fps vs. 2054fps; me = 2820flbs vs. 2812flbs...also, the 9,3 trajectory is flatter than both the 375 flanged and the 375hh...

...i am sure that a hand-loaded 375hh round in a bolt action single would easily surpass the 9,3 in all relevant criteria...however, for my purposes, and given my preference for doubles, the 9,3 appears more than satisfactory for my requirements state-side and abroad...i also note that featured phs in the african hunter magazine (e.g., ganyana) favor the similar 9,3x62 for all species of game, dangerous included...

...i suppose this is what makes our sport uniquely delightful, the ability to consciously choose a personalized 'tool' for your hunting quest in terms of action, barreling, calibre, bullet, etc...i also suppose there are no right answers, but given my distain for my bulkier, heavier bolt/falling block actions (416 rigby/458win.mag.), the 9,3 seems to suit me well at this point, and to be sufficiently adequate for my hunting needs...


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mickey
.416 member


Reged: 05/01/03
Posts: 4647
Loc: Pend Oreille Valley, Idaho
Re: 9.3 vs. 375hh [Re: ThomasEdwards]
      #10399 - 29/02/04 08:26 AM

475Guy

A person with an interest and patience can find a nice big bore Brit rifle in a suitable (40 Cal and over) for less than US$10000. Some calbers bring a premium, as the 470, and will cost more. That does not mean they are better, only more popular. A 450 3.25 or a 450#2 can be had, today, for US$12000. Not much more than a new inexpensive one and certanly worth more after the purchase.

Thomas

Don't get me wrong as I love my 9.3. It is all the things you say in a light recoiling and very handy Doble. I have shot over 100 animals in Africa with it and 20-25 in North America. That said there is no way that a 285 grain bullet at 2300fps is as hard hitting as a 300 grain bullet at 2600fps in the 375 H&H. Even the 375FM goes at 2400fps. Better than the 9.3.

As to it being adequate, I agree. Adequate, just not optimal. Given the choice I would rather use a 400 or larger. But not given the choice I would be perfectly content to use my 9.3 and not give it a second thought.

As for the 40 caliber alternative there has been one for along time. The 400 Jeffery or the 450/400 3.25. If you want more snot and higher pressure you can go to the Krieghoff.

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.


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ThomasEdwards
.300 member


Reged: 04/01/04
Posts: 246
Loc: Newport Beach, CA
Re: 9.3 vs. 375hh [Re: mickey]
      #10401 - 29/02/04 08:46 AM

mickey,

...all good thoughts...but what about terminal performance results at 100-200 yards...and what is one to make of the norma charts?...

...but i fully agree that with nasty dg one should indeed be properly gunned with a 470ne or similar (if one chooses to use a double, otherwise a 416rig or similar in turnbolt should be more than adequate)...

...also, anyone know what the pressures are with the 9.3 vs. 375hh vs. 375fm?...


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475Guy
.400 member


Reged: 22/08/03
Posts: 1088
Loc: Kali, US
Re: 9.3 vs. 375hh [Re: mickey]
      #10403 - 29/02/04 08:57 AM

Mick, when I was looking for my first DB I never saw an English one for under 50K. I guess I don't know where to look. In fact, most were in the 60K and up range. I just about had a seizure. Must say that the ones I saw were extremely purty looking though.

--------------------
Lo do they call to me,
They bid me take my place among
them in the Halls of Valhalla,
Where the brave may live forever.


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mickey
.416 member


Reged: 05/01/03
Posts: 4647
Loc: Pend Oreille Valley, Idaho
Re: 9.3 vs. 375hh [Re: 475Guy]
      #10410 - 29/02/04 10:17 AM

In reply to:

Mick, when I was looking for my first DB I never saw an English one for under 50K. I guess I don't know where to look. In fact, most were in the 60K and up range. I just about had a seizure. Must say that the ones I saw were extremely purty looking though.




Welllll....in that case I have a couple that I will sell you for $30000. You pay half price and I have money for something new.

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.


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475Guy
.400 member


Reged: 22/08/03
Posts: 1088
Loc: Kali, US
Re: 9.3 vs. 375hh [Re: mickey]
      #10413 - 29/02/04 10:42 AM

You got some undeveloped swampland for sale too? Maybe about 20' underwater?

--------------------
Lo do they call to me,
They bid me take my place among
them in the Halls of Valhalla,
Where the brave may live forever.


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atkinson6
.375 member


Reged: 26/01/04
Posts: 678
Loc: Idaho
Re: 9.3 vs. 375hh [Re: 475Guy]
      #10462 - 01/03/04 03:29 AM

I would sure suggest getting the new Searcy PH, I did and I love it.. It is my first non English double rifle...

I simply do not like the Merkles, and the engraving is almost cartoonish IMO...the lock works are rough and bottom line is they are not for me...

The 9.3x74 is at the bottom of the line powerwise for Buffalo but I have seen do yeomans work on the big bulls, and if you stick the bullet in the right spot it will put the black buggers down as well as anything else...same for the 9.3x62 with which I have shoot quit a number of Buffalo and oops Mickey, I cannot tell any difference in the 9.3s and the great old 375 H&H...


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475Guy
.400 member


Reged: 22/08/03
Posts: 1088
Loc: Kali, US
Re: 9.3 vs. 375hh [Re: atkinson6]
      #10474 - 01/03/04 05:25 AM

Ray, I plan on doing exactly that for my next DB shooter. All I have to do is drive down to the lower part of the state. I still dream of old English DB's though. Isn't OE that ghetto drink?

--------------------
Lo do they call to me,
They bid me take my place among
them in the Halls of Valhalla,
Where the brave may live forever.

Edited by 475Guy (03/04/04 11:20 AM)


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500grains
.416 member


Reged: 16/02/04
Posts: 4732
Loc: Salt Lake City, Utah USA
Re: 9.3 vs. 375hh [Re: 475Guy]
      #10478 - 01/03/04 06:47 AM

I would suggest a searcy PH model in 470 sine that willl fill out your classic lineup of rifles. The recoil will not bother you much, and it will have the power to get things done. Also, the searcy is a very classy and sturdy/durable action. Some guys like the Merkel, which is made on a 20 ga. shotgun frame, but the Greener crossbolt makes me suspicious. That is only my opinion and yours may differ.

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475Guy
.400 member


Reged: 22/08/03
Posts: 1088
Loc: Kali, US
Re: 9.3 vs. 375hh [Re: 500grains]
      #10480 - 01/03/04 07:08 AM

500, my thoughts exactly. As I told Ray, I'm planning to see Butch Searcy when I decide to get a brand new 470 to play with.

--------------------
Lo do they call to me,
They bid me take my place among
them in the Halls of Valhalla,
Where the brave may live forever.


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8x56mn
.300 member


Reged: 26/02/04
Posts: 149
Loc: Wine Country, Finger Lakes Wa...
Re: 9.3 vs. 375hh [Re: 475Guy]
      #10533 - 01/03/04 07:23 PM

Thanks form all the informative comments. Presently I'm working in Taiwain and plan to be back home in April for leave and will greet my newly purchase 9.3 that I bought from Cabelas. I will get as much shooting with it while I'm home. I have been cooresponding with Butch the last few weeks regarding the Underlever and the PH. Butch did recommend the PH and I do agree, prefering the classic look.I hope to be able to get one for my Sept. hunt, but if not then next year for Elephant I hope, God willing, getting a little old for this working crap ya know Thanks again and enjoy listening.

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