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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Paradox and Bore Guns

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9.3x57
.450 member


Reged: 22/04/07
Posts: 5561
Loc: United States
Calling Daryl...
      #100256 - 25/03/08 12:31 PM

OK, I've been lurking on the topic of roundball guns.

Now I have a question:

I have an Ithaca 20-inch slug-barreled M87. It is a rare bird, actually, as the 87 monicker was only used for a few years. It is in fact a 37.

Anyway, the bore of this gun appears to be .716 with a bit of constriction at the muzzle, reading .712 or so.

I see Lyman makes a .715 ball mold, Lee a .690.

My question is, which to get? The Lee mold is cheaper, and I'll probably get that one just to start, but which one is mostly likely to shoot better?

Seems simple to assume the .715 ball would, but I am wondering if that ball would skid on the barrel wall, lead and go akimbo and or be effected by a wee bit of constriction at the bayonet end, where the .690 might stay straight due to being centered in the bore by a cupped wad {upside down shot wad base per Daryl's instructions for undersize balls}?

Daryl?

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27593
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Calling Daryl... [Re: 9.3x57]
      #100429 - 27/03/08 03:20 AM

My poersonal preference for large calibre round balls is moulds made by Jeff Tanner. You need normal RCBS or Lyman handles for them. They are made on cnc machinery, and cast perfectly round balls. The blocks are brass, so a spray with teflon mould release or bullet coating works wonders.
: The best thing about Jeff's moulds is the short wait time for them to arrive, the low cost - about $30.00, the perfect roundness which neither Lee nor Lyman seen capable of these days- every time. Jeffs moulds don't have a sprue cutter, so there is a lump of lead on each one from the pour point. These are easily snipped off with wire strippers, the plyers kind with the little round circles. After that,a swipe with a rasp leaves a perfectly round ball, no spure to orient and ulike either Lee nor Lyman, the ball is the same size, everywhere.
: I'd ask Jeff for a .712" RB mould. Wait time is usually 7 days or less, with the enclosed bill being paid to an account in California. They can be ordered on-line. I have two of Jeff's moulds and like them both.
: The ball, centred with the gas check cups cut off trap wads, will shoot well in any gun that is .712" or larger.
: Now, back to the .690 mould. As normal full choke in a normal 12 bore, is 40 points of choke, ie: .040", nominal choke boring for full choke is .691", say .690" is usually noted for average on 12 bores perhaps some are .730", and not the true .729"(which would be a 1.3333oz ball- ie:583.3gr. A .690 ball will weigh pretty close to 500gr. even. I did most of my 12 bore ball shooting with a .684" 480gr. ball and that one will exit on broadside shots on moose, something a .375H&H rarely does with normal bullets.
: With back boring being common these days, 12 bores might be as big as .740", and I've no idea what the chokes measure in them. Seems nothing's standard these days.
; In American-made ball blocks, I'd rather have the Lyman .690" than the Lee .690" for your gun - Lyman does make this size as well. Lee blocks are a pain in the lockup department and alignment suffers without extra care in casting - but they do work. Try www.trackofthewolf.com. The other option is to cut your tube off before the constriction, or hone it out with a brake cylinder hone - done this many times when developing loads for overchoked goose guns, and get the .715" RB mould from Lyman.
; The .690" ball will bust both shoudlers of a 1,200 pound moose, so I suspect a black bear or elk would be little challenge, being way lighter boned. .690" is the nominal bore size for 14 gauge guns. In pure lead, that's 500gr., probably 480gr. in WW metal.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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9.3x57
.450 member


Reged: 22/04/07
Posts: 5561
Loc: United States
Re: Calling Daryl... [Re: DarylS]
      #100499 - 27/03/08 12:35 PM

OK Daryl.

I just emailed Jeff Tanner for a quote on a .712 ball mold. I will also polish the bore in the intended gun.

Question; I've never used a brass mold. What are the tricks there? They need to be lubed?

What is mold release?

Incidently, many have trouble with Lee molds. Reason is they don't want to close evenly. The trick there is to...believe it or not...lube the alignment groove with white lithium or other non-migrating grease. I too had trouble till I read in some Lee material that grease was recommended. Solved all my alignment issues immediately.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27593
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Calling Daryl... [Re: 9.3x57]
      #100524 - 27/03/08 07:56 PM

I don't have trouble with them either - just a pain to cast with.
: Mould release is a moly, not teflon spray sold by Rapine Moulds for spraying the cavities of mould blocks.
: I got exactly the same results with Hoppe's moly bullet spray. Merely spray the mould and let it dry - then cast. It doesn't come off, lubes the mold cavities and keeps them clean of lead particles. Jeff's moulds have a very inovative method of closing and alignment. I really like them, but - they can pickup some lead wash if untreated with moly spray and cast very hot with WW metal.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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