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Rusty
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Reged: 08/02/03
Posts: 464
Loc: Missouri City, Texas
475 #2 Jeffery
      #8417 - 07/02/04 05:45 PM

Gentlemen,

May I present her Ladyship, W. J. Jeffery
in 475# 2 Jeffery.


She belongs to my friend David.
JJ Parodeau at Champlins Firearms in Enid, OK has just put the barrels "back on the face". She is a beauty!
She weighs in right at 11 lbs. One standing, four folding.


An 80 cord rifle!


I am going to be working up some RL-15 loads for it over the next month. Yes, you could say I'm excited about her!

--------------------
Rusty
We band of brothers!
DRSS

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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 40452
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Re: 475 #2 Jeffery [Re: Rusty]
      #8424 - 07/02/04 11:06 PM

That's a very familiar looking Jeffrey. Was it cleaned up or was originally purchased in that condition?

Have fun shooting it, I'll be doing another session with mine tommorrow, is 40 deg C hot enough ?

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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Rusty
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Reged: 08/02/03
Posts: 464
Loc: Missouri City, Texas
Re: 475 #2 Jeffery [Re: NitroX]
      #8427 - 08/02/04 01:21 AM

The rifle is extremely clean. The is abosolutely no pitting anywhere on the rifle. The bores are close to prestine! The more I look at her, the more impressed I am with beautiful condition of this rifle.
It is a great shooter! The recoil of the 11 lbs is not that much more than my Hollis 450/400. Comparing my Hollis and this rifle, I believe that the barreled action is a Leonard action.

He bought if from George at Champlins several yeards ago. He has taken at least 2 elephants and a couple of buff with the rifle.


--------------------
Rusty
We band of brothers!
DRSS

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mickey
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Reged: 05/01/03
Posts: 4647
Loc: Pend Oreille Valley, Idaho
Re: 475 #2 Jeffery [Re: Rusty]
      #8437 - 08/02/04 03:11 AM

That is a grand cartridge. A friend had a Holland & Holland in the 475#2. It had originally been a 450#2 but was rebored in Austria in the early 1900's. With the lighter barrels and the Holland feel the rifle literally 'danced' into your hands. The only rifle I have ever held that felt as 'alive' is my .369.

His was extremely accurate and, although I tried many times to buy it, he sold it to a very rich collector he knew for twice what I could pay. The collecter is not a Hunter and it has lanquished in his gunroom for 15 years now. The last time I was over I spent an hour cleaning it dusting it.

The rifle and caliber is a stone killer on all Big Game. I think it is the equivalent of the 500 for sure and very much underrated because of the scarcity of the round. Your friend is very lucky to have a nice one that will shoot.

Isn't that the mystery animal that Gryphon was showing on the side?

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.

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mickey
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Re: 475 #2 Jeffery [Re: mickey]
      #8450 - 08/02/04 04:55 AM

Is this a WJ Jeffery of London or a J. Jeffery of Calcutta? Cousins I believe.

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.

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Rusty
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Re: 475 #2 Jeffery [Re: mickey]
      #8481 - 08/02/04 01:54 PM

I think this picture answers that question


--------------------
Rusty
We band of brothers!
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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
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Re: 475 #2 Jeffery [Re: Rusty]
      #8505 - 08/02/04 07:00 PM

Does anyone know when they started making the .475 No. 2 instead of the .450 No 2? I assume the .475 is the necked up .450.

Also if anyone knows, did they make the .450 and the .475 for a while after the .450 calibre ban?


--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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NE450No2
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Reged: 10/01/03
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Re: 475 #2 Jeffery [Re: NitroX]
      #8506 - 08/02/04 07:26 PM

I believe it was 1905 when the British outlawed the 450 bore in India and the Sudan.
The 475 No2 is NOT just a necked up 450 No2. The diameter if the rim is bigger and the base of the case is larger.
Also the 475 No2 uses different diameter bullets than the 475 No2 Jeffery. [475 No2 480 gr. .483 dia vs 475 No2 Jeffery 500gr. .488 dia. if I remember the diameters correctly.]

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: 475 #2 Jeffery [Re: NE450No2]
      #8513 - 09/02/04 12:08 AM

In reply to:

Poster: NE450No2
Subject: Re: 475 #2 Jeffery

I believe it was 1905 when the British outlawed the 450 bore in India and the Sudan.
The 475 No2 is NOT just a necked up 450 No2. The diameter if the rim is bigger and the base of the case is larger.
Also the 475 No2 uses different diameter bullets than the 475 No2 Jeffery. [475 No2 480 gr. .483 dia vs 475 No2 Jeffery 500gr. .488 dia. if I remember the diameters correctly.]




OK thanks for that. I was going to check my reference material but got diverted after the post.

I didn't realise there was a difference in bore diameter between a 475 No2 and a 475 No2 Jeffrey.

The good old British

I assume there still were .450's made after 1905 ???

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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mickey
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Reged: 05/01/03
Posts: 4647
Loc: Pend Oreille Valley, Idaho
Re: 475 #2 Jeffery [Re: NitroX]
      #8532 - 09/02/04 06:23 AM

The475#2 did not replace the 450#2, it augmented it. When the 450 was banned in India, Burma and the Northern Sudan Jeffery had to come up with an alternative. That was the 475#2. The 475#2 Express shoots a 480 grain bullet loaded at 80-85grns Cordite and the 4575#2 Jefferys shoots a 500 grain bullet loaded at 75-80 grns Cordite. They are identical other than the bullet weight and loading.Bullets for both were various with the .489 being the most common but not the only one. It doesn't matter as the load is called out on the rifle.

The 450#2 was made long after 1905 and distributed all over by Jeffery. I have always been curious as to why so many turned up in India even after they were banned. Maybe someone else has the answer.


--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.

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Chasseur
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Reged: 18/11/03
Posts: 771
Loc: Hunting classic Indian game!
Re: 475 #2 Jeffery [Re: mickey]
      #8536 - 09/02/04 07:41 AM

She is beautiful Rusty...

Its rifles like that with their simple, elegant beauty that always reminds us why we love British doubles...

--------------------
In regards to action he should devote himself to hunting...
-Machiavelli



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atkinson6
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Reged: 26/01/04
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Re: 475 #2 Jeffery [Re: Chasseur]
      #8593 - 10/02/04 06:24 AM

Rusty,
Was not this gun on the Champlain table at Dallas this year at a very desirable price????

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Rusty
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Re: 475 #2 Jeffery [Re: atkinson6]
      #8610 - 10/02/04 12:22 PM

Ray,
No it wasn't. David has owned the rifle for at least 6-7 years that I can remember. It is an elephant killer deluxe!

--------------------
Rusty
We band of brothers!
DRSS

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atkinson6
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Re: 475 #2 Jeffery [Re: Rusty]
      #8650 - 11/02/04 02:39 AM

Rusty,
Champlain had a nice 475 #2 or 450 #2, at Dallas, he said the the problem with the gun was that it was too light at 9.5 lbs as I recall...the price was about $6500 as I recall, at any rate it seemed one heck of a bargain to me...thought this might be it..

I had two doubles on the table and resisted the temptation to make it 3 think goodness...now, I am having misgivings about letting it get by me...oh well....To many doubles, to little money, to little time...

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DUGABOY1
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Reged: 02/02/03
Posts: 1340
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Re: 475 #2 Jeffery [Re: atkinson6]
      #8653 - 11/02/04 02:56 AM

That 475#2 on Champlins table is still on his website! It is a Francotte, and is light, but manegable. Price is $6850

The bullet diameter is indeed different for the two versions of the 475#2! The 475#2 Nitro Express uses a .483 dia,480 gr bullet, and the 475# Jeffery uses a .489 dia, 500 gr bullet. Both were loaded with 80.0 grs cordite!

I just happen to have 80 rnds of brand new HDS brass for 475#2, so this rifle is looking better to me all the time!

http://www.champlinarms.com/gundetail.cfm?id=688



--------------------
..........Mac >>>===(x)===>
DUGABOY1, and MacD37 founding member of DRSS www.doublerifleshooterssociety.com
"If I die today, I have had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"

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mickey
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Re: 475 #2 Jeffery [Re: atkinson6]
      #8655 - 11/02/04 03:01 AM

That was a pretty good price for a solid Double. Why didn't you call? For that price you can afford to make it heavier if you want but really, how much more does it need to weigh? I'd rather carry a 9.5lb rifle that kicks allot than an 11 lb rifle that kicks quite abit.

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.

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NE450No2
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Re: 475 #2 Jeffery [Re: DUGABOY1]
      #8670 - 11/02/04 05:37 AM

The 475 Francotte on Champlin's table in Dallas is not suitable for "regular" 475 loads, it is too light. That rifle is set up to shoot a 400gr bullet.
The 450 No2 was a Thomas Bland. It was a very nice rifle. It was sold however. The fella who bought it called me and I gave him my loads but I have not heard back from him yet.

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NE450No2
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Re: 475 #2 Jeffery [Re: DUGABOY1]
      #8672 - 11/02/04 05:51 AM

Woodleigh bullets for the 475 No2 Jeffery are 500grains and .488 diameter. A-Square's bullets were also 500gr and .488diameter.

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atkinson6
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Re: 475 #2 Jeffery [Re: NE450No2]
      #8909 - 13/02/04 08:23 AM

450#2,
I did not think it was too light for a hunting rifle, I think I could handle it if its got a bit of cast off, at its worst it would recoil like a 505 Gibbs I assure you...

I also think that one could easily shoot a .488 bullet in a .489 bore without problems albiet I would be thinking about re-regulation with a 500 gr. bullet, that should be dooable don't you think?...

It was certainly priced right and I'd bet old George would slide a little on that price if he still has it after SCI Reno....but alas, I have a new double, sold my deal old one and just not enough money to go around these days.

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4seventy
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Reged: 07/05/03
Posts: 2210
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Re: 475 #2 Jeffery [Re: atkinson6]
      #8927 - 13/02/04 09:49 AM

My 470 is nine and one quarter pounds and yes the recoil is pretty solid but also quite manageable once you get used to it.
It is much nicer to carry than an 11 pounder but I don't enjoy long sessions at the chronograph with it!

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NE450No2
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Re: 475 #2 Jeffery [Re: atkinson6]
      #8936 - 13/02/04 11:38 AM

I did not make my post perfectly clear. I think the rifle is BUILT to light for full power 475's, i.e. the rifle might not be built stout enough.

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4seventy
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Re: 475 #2 Jeffery [Re: NE450No2]
      #8940 - 13/02/04 12:07 PM

Yeah, from the advertisement, that Francotte sounds like it might be proofed and regulated for a lighter than usual bullet weight.
Does anyone have bullet weight and pressure details on this special Jeffery light bullet load that George mentions in the advert?

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atkinson6
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Re: 475 #2 Jeffery [Re: NE450No2]
      #9143 - 16/02/04 08:33 AM

Nitro #2,
OK, I thought you had twisted off on me!! ...

So was this a black powder gun that was proofed or what? Why is it to weak to shoot the round it was designed for? I have no doubt of what you say but am interrested in an explanation, as George C mentioned this when I looked at the gun and I misinturpeted him also...

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NE450No2
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Re: 475 #2 Jeffery [Re: atkinson6]
      #9151 - 16/02/04 09:25 AM

Ray
That rifle is built on a very light frame I cannot remember what it is proofed for, but George said it was for a 400gr bullet if I remember correctly.

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