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Well, I've carried two .416Rem on multiple safaris in some very hot weather - 120 degrees in Mozambique was the hottest recorded on two of my thermometers. Killed a half dozen Buff and a Hippo with them. Never had any kind of problem. The rifles were a Remington 700 Custom Shop and a Winchester Special Build from their Custom Shop built to my specs. I think the .416Rem makes more sense than the Rigby or any of the others, as ammunition is generally less expensive and more readily available around the world. Shorter action also is nice.

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If one has pressure problems with a 416 Rem then I suggest that he put too much powder in the damn thing or didn't trim his cases or any of the other dumb things that some reloaders do, regardless of the caliber...

As to the famed African heat, ask anyone from Texas, New Mexico, Arizona how it bothered them...I will take Africa at its worst compared to presidio, Texas or yuma, Ariz..Hmmm, I have hunted there also...

Nope, thats a lame arguement, long live the 416 Rem..but the Rigby is a fine old round, proven over the years and has always been underloaded, but to load it hotter is falacy and not needed, but lets keep our arguement for her in perspective, she needs no justification at the expense of another caliber, in fact she can stand alone on her own two feet, as can the 416 Rem......

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Ditto on the experiences...I too, have carried my custom shop 416 Remington on several safaries, have shot, as stated in other posts, everything from duiker to elephant with lion and plains game in between...IMHO, works very well..Have another, entire custom on a mauser action in .416 Rem.--has never left Montana..but plan to take it on its maiden voyage soon..

As to the pressure issue..I say bullshit to that one...if it was, I doubt anyone who is a PH in Africa would go near one..yet there they are..plus, I have never had anything come even close to sticking on mine..I have also been in Africa during some very, very hot weather...not one single problem...

Also agree, the shorter action is, to me, much preferable...

Ripp

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ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

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The only one I have not had the pleasure (????) of using is the Weatherby. So, if I thought I needed a 416 it would be that. I would have the potential of high velocity and also a huge case (as well the Rigby) to load 400's to 2400 for that seemingly all important low pressure.

Besides I really like Weatherby's.

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I agree, Caprivi.

I've been drawn to them since I was a kid. All of my Weatherbys from the .257 through the .340 are all at least MOA rifles and most will shoot sub-moa on any given day. I didn't include the .416 Weatherby because I haven't had the chance to take it to the range yet. As soon as the rain ceases here, I'll take it out. Boddington's video using the .416 on a buffalo hunt is very interesting. Honestly, I like all three of the major .416's.

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As to the famed African heat, ask anyone from Texas, New Mexico, Arizona how it bothered them...I will take Africa at its worst compared to presidio, Texas or yuma, Ariz..Hmmm, I have hunted there also...

As to the pressure issue..I say bullshit to that one...if it was, I doubt anyone who is a PH in Africa would go near one..yet there they are..plus, I have never had anything come even close to sticking on mine..I have also been in Africa during some very, very hot weather...not one single problem...

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Another interesting thread!

Here on the ranch in the Winter Wonderland {currently buried under 4 feet of snow}, I have blown up two 125 Degree Fahrenheit thermometers during ground squirrel annihilation season in the summer. Here in "frigid" north Idaho {...and in many places all across the USA, for that matter...}, late July thru September can dish out heat that runs neck and neck with or exceeds anything "Africa" can dish out.

Thanks very much for driving that old myth into the ground, RIPP!

Every time I hear somebody point out how horrific the heat and/or humidity is in "Africa", I think; "You haven't made hay in Idaho, built rock fence in Kentucky or swung a hammer on a framing crew in South Jersey"...

As for the .416's, RIPP's got me pretty much sold on the Remington version. No argument as to ballistics of any of the others, but I like the fact that a .416 Remington could, I think, be easily built to carry four rounds in the magazine like my LH SAKO AIII .375 does.

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122F during the day and just barely freezing at 31F by 5AM next morning.

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122F during the day and just barely freezing at 31F by 5AM next morning.

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I do not doubt it.

Two years ago in the summer we had three days in a row with hard white frosts in the morning and over 100 by late afternoon.

The bit about the .416 Rem being "pressure sensitive" makes no sense to me. Unless some guy is working up max loads in January and then expecting them to function fine in the heat of summer. Anyone who is a handloader knows better than this, so I do not understand why the beef goes on.

I suppose the pressure sensitive issue does come from the old days of cordite loads and ammo developed in the UK where of course high temps do not reach those of Australia, Africa or North America. But with today's powders and judicious loading, the issue is as dead as Clinton's honor.

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You are exactely correct..in my experiece, I have even, stupid as it is, tried to load up on the .416 a bit to get those "sticky" rounds in hot weather..exceeded the book by a bit..not different experiences than any other caliber once you get in the forbidden zone...

Plus, as stated, smaller action than is required by the Rigby and much less cost on ammo if you buy off the shelf...

I really like the Rigby, and will probably have one some day, if for no other reason, I really like the caliber...but for now..

Ripp

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ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

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And it's easier to shoot than the Weatherby.

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?????? It's essentially the same size case as the Rigby and can be loaded down to whatever level you want.

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And it's easier to shoot than the Weatherby.

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?????? It's essentially the same size case as the Rigby and can be loaded down to whatever level you want.

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The cool thing is ---they'll all kill their target quickly if you do your part---especially since most shots are relatively close in Africa compared to the western US or other parts...

Ripp

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ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

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And it's easier to shoot than the Weatherby.

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?????? It's essentially the same size case as the Rigby and can be loaded down to whatever level you want.

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True. But I was talking about with factory loads. Which may not be a consideration with you, but it is with me. Which is why I'm not shooting a pure wildcat.

It's not much of a consideration. I've put a quarter box of Federal loads with the Speer Trophy Bonded Bear Claws through it. The rest have been handloads. Mostly with Hornady interlocks I load for practice, but also loads with Barnes bullets I've worked up for more serious stuff.

But I run my own business. If I'm pressed for time & have to choose how I spend it, I'd rather spend it at the range then at the reloading bench. So I just feel better knowing if I run low shortly before leaving for a hunt I could just order something from Midway. Online & at 2am if need be.

And all things being equal, it's easier & more comfortable to shoot a 400 grain bullet at 2400fps than it is at 2700fps. At least it is for me.

Also, I was talking about shooting the two cartridges in generally available factory rifles. I've never run across a rifle other than a Weatherby chambered for .416 Weatherby. And not many of those, either.

I don't like the stocks on those things. The largest Weatherby I've actually ever shot has been a .340, and I don't care to shoot anything bigger. According to the company their stock is supposed to mitigate recoil, but I don't see how they arrived at that conclusion.

Edited by ChinaFleetSailor (19/01/09 06:13 PM)

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Also, I was talking about shooting the two cartridges in generally available factory rifles. I've never run across a rifle other than a Weatherby chambered for .416 Weatherby. And not many of those, either.

I don't like the stocks on those things. The largest Weatherby I've actually ever shot has been a .340, and I don't care to shoot anything bigger. According to the company their stock is supposed to mitigate recoil, but I don't see how they arrived at that conclusion.

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Understood. I have a Weatherby Mark V in a .416 Wby and love it....beautiful blonde stock with smokey streaks. I'm one that does find their stocks to be more comfortable than a standard straight comb stock. It doesn't reduce foot pounds of recoil, but you'll feel it differently, in my opinion. With either stock, you're going to get the equal and opposite reaction to the bullet leaving the barrel as Newton promises you would but, you can get it more in the cheek bone area with a standard stock, or you can get more of a straight back recoil away from the cheek and into the shoulder with the Weatherby stock. It's all personal preference.

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NitroX

I have been told that the good old .404 Jeffery is slow with a poor SD, making it no good for buff and elephant. The bullets doesn't penetrate and there is no "punch". The new .425 Express is supposed to be better, but brass is no-excisting. Have you any experience with the .404 Jeffery?
Robie

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NitroX

I have been told that the good old .404 Jeffery is slow with a poor SD, making it no good for buff and elephant. The bullets doesn't penetrate and there is no "punch". The new .425 Express is supposed to be better, but brass is no-excisting. Have you any experience with the .404 Jeffery?
Robie

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The .404 (in a modern rifle) is every bit as good as the .416 Rigby/.416 Rem/.425 Express. I´m shooting a Rem700 in .404 with 22"-barrel (Lothar Walther barrel) for many years without ever having a problem with "stickies" or that....

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Interesting--as I have been curious about the .404 for some time also--actually talked to a gunsmith yesterday in AZ about building one on a Winchester pre-64 action...think it would be a great all around gun to carry in Africa

Ripp

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NitroX

I have been told that the good old .404 Jeffery is slow with a poor SD, making it no good for buff and elephant. The bullets doesn't penetrate and there is no "punch". The new .425 Express is supposed to be better, but brass is no-excisting. Have you any experience with the .404 Jeffery?
Robie

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The .404 (in a modern rifle) is every bit as good as the .416 Rigby/.416 Rem/.425 Express. I´m shooting a Rem700 in .404 with 22"-barrel (Lothar Walther barrel) for many years without ever having a problem with "stickies" or that....

The load with 400 Woodleigh RNSP (chronographed at 2.442 out of my 22-incher) is my standard & standby. My short .404 allways reached or bettered the level of my formerly Rem700 Safari in .416 RemMag w/24"barrel (the barrel was chopped later) and 400 grs bullet....

(the only exception was a very hard "experimental" load with the 350 BX in that .416/24", that went 2.698 fts over the chrony, the bullet dropped only 14,5" at 300 meters while going only 1,5" high at 100 meters, it showed actually a lesser drop than a friends .338 Winmag with 250 grs!!)....

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I have to agree about the .404 Jeffery being just as good. Some of the critiques of the round just don't pass muster. Now, I don't claim to have experience with the .404 Jeffery, but the two points I'm going to make regarding sectional density and velocity don't require any. Just objectivity.

First, I've heard that knock against the Jeffery round that it has "poor" sectional density before. Which, when you look at it, is ridiculous. Sectional Density isn't a matter of opinion but mathematically determined. The difference in sectional densities between two 400 grain bullets, one .416" diameter the other .423, is tiny. The .416 is higher of course, at .330. But the .423 bullet has a SD of .319. That's not "poor;" that's better than many rounds noted for deep or at least adequate penetration. The .375H&H earned its fame with a 300 grain bullet that has a SD of .305.

As far as being slow, that too doesn't pass muster if you examine available facts. Exhibit A is, ironically, Norma .416 Rigby ammo. I've talked to several PHs who say Norma ammo has an excellent reputation. The normal loads, not the PH stuff. If you check the ballistics for Norma's 400 grain Barnes solid loads, note that its advertised velocity is 2097fps. This is below original Jeffery ballistics, but no one is complaining about the performance.

I suspect that in 1909 and 1911 when the Jeffery and Rigby rounds were introduced both their advertised velocities were overly optimistic. But the fact of the matter is, if a 400 grain bullet launched from a Rigby case can kill an elephant at Jeffery velocities, than so could a 400 grain bullet launched from a Jeffery case at Jeffery velocities.

If you were to chronograph your .404 Jeffery loads to ensure they were merely meeting the velocity standard set by the factory in 1909 of 2150fps, your loads would be faster than SOME widely used .416 Rigby factory loads. And those Rigby loads have proven to be perfectly satisfactory. So how could the Jeffery be "too slow?"

I have a .416 Rigby, not a Jeffery, but the facts are still the facts.

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