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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Big Bore Rifles

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mickey
.416 member

Reged: 05/01/03
Posts: 4647
Loc: Pend Oreille Valley, Idaho

Shooting another cartridge in your rifle.
#38624 - 03/10/05 09:01 AM

I see people talk of being able to shoot a 458 WM in a 458 Lott rifle. Shooting a 375 Holland in a 375 Weatherby. Even a 22 Hornet in a K Hornet. Is this a good thing?

Does the shorter cartridge hurt the original chamber? The shorter shell has more taper so the shell does not sit properly in the chamber. If the cartridge head spaces on the shoulder this is a problem. (3006vs30 Gibbs)

Does the bullet being seated into the normal chamber area hurt the rifle? [ 577 3" vs 577 2 3/4. Lott vs Win Mag]

Any ideas?

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.

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ovis
.300 member

Reged: 26/01/03
Posts: 216
Loc: Homer, Alaska

Re: Shooting another cartridge in your rifle. [Re: mickey]
#38626 - 03/10/05 09:45 AM

Mickey,

I've heard that a lot of firing will erode the chambe when interchanging calibers....I don't have any experience, except w/handguns and never had a problem there after lots of rounds.....it would seem that it would take a lot of rounds fired.....none of my stuff is interchangeable, rifle-wise. but, then again, I shoot Remingtons so how much could I know?

Joe

--------------------
"Where there's a hobble, there's hope."

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500Nitro
.450 member

Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia

Re: Shooting another cartridge in your rifle. [Re: ovis]
#38629 - 03/10/05 10:15 AM

I had a DR in 500 3 1/4" that had obviously had plenty
of 3" rounds fired in it as it had eroded the front of the
chambers.

As a result if you fired 500 3 1/4" cases in it they would "bell"
slightly at the front and stop the extractors from pulling the
cases out so you could grab them.

So I would say lots of firing would probably cause a problem
but the odd few, no.

However I wouldn't do it in my rifles.

500 Nitro

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mikeh416Rigby
.450 member

Reged: 24/02/03
Posts: 6051
Loc: The beautiful Oley Valley, PA....

Re: Shooting another cartridge in your rifle. [Re: mickey]
#38633 - 03/10/05 10:55 AM

I shoot 375 H&H rounds in my 375 Ackley Improved with no signs of anything nepharious.....yet.

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luv2safari
.400 member

Reged: 09/11/03
Posts: 1413
Loc: United States

Re: Shooting another cartridge in your rifle. [Re: mickey]
#38647 - 03/10/05 01:54 PM

Micky,

You need to fire form many chamberings, like the Ackley Imp chamberings. The early Weatherby rounds had to be fire formed...375 in particular, from firing a standard 375 H&H. The habit of shooting something like a 458 Win in a 458 Lott chamber is different, as it can erode the chamber somewhat.

It is no problem to fire a 35 Whalen in an Ackley Imp chamber, but the problems start when someone trys to fire the same round in something like a Brown Whalen.

--------------------
Hunt with Class and Classics

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SAHUNT
Sponsor

Reged: 27/12/04
Posts: 900
Loc: Centurion, RSA

Re: Shooting another cartridge in your rifle. [Re: luv2safari]
#38651 - 03/10/05 02:37 PM

I will not do it. By firing rounds with cases shorter than they should be, the neck might not seal properly and you can experience a blow back. Your chamber are eroded and your lands will also erode quicker. This will cause a bigger jump that will definately have an influance on accuracy.

Fire forming is diiferent

--------------------
Life is how you pass the time between hunting trips.
Sometimes I do not express myself properly in the English language, please forgive me, I am just a boertjie.
Jaco Human
jacohu@mweb.co.za
SA Hunting Experience

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DarylS
.700 member

Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27535
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...

Re: Shooting another cartridge in your rifle. [Re: mickey]
#38680 - 04/10/05 12:41 AM

Shooting the shorter .458Win Mag is OK in the .458Lott as they are chambered with a tapered leade in formt of the throat & are meant to allow the Win round. Tests show little if any drop in velocity, and excellent accuracy with Win Mag in .458Lott's. It is not recommened for constant use, only in an emergency.
; The .458 headspaces on the belt.
: Shooting too many Wins., may errode the chamber ahead of the shorter case.
: Some of your other examples are normal practice for making brass for the Improved chamber.ie: .375H&H in .375 WTBY or .22 Hornet in the "K" chamber. The parent case in those guns is the same length as the chamber so NO damage will result - they are designed for just that practise. The Hornet headspaces on the rim, not the shoulder & no harm results as the shoulder blows forward when fired. The .375H&H headspaces on the belt, same as the .458's. Your other example is a NO/NO - you cannot fire .30/06 safely in a .30/06GIBBS as the shoudler of this round is the headspace adjustment, and the Gibbs is further forward than the '06 case. In order to safely shoot '06's in the Gibbs chamber, the neck should be enlarged to .8mm (mnimum) or .338, then necked back down to .30 forming a "False" shoulder for a crush fit in the chamber. That 'new' shoulder will hold the case properly and safely, IF properly located. Merely seating the bullet out to contact the throat might not work due to primer blow pushing the bullet back into the case, thus developing excessive headspace upon discharge. This type handloading is not for those who aren't avid shooters of wildcat or improved rounds who have the necessary understanding of headspace and how to properly obtain it.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Judson
.300 member

Reged: 21/09/05
Posts: 192
Loc: St. Albans Maine U.S.A.

Re: Shooting another cartridge in your rifle. [Re: DarylS]
#39056 - 12/10/05 07:52 AM

It is not a problem to fire .375 H&H in an improved chamber or in the .375 Weatherby as this is how you make your brass and is a process called "fire forming" The same applies to most improved chamberings such as the "K" Hornet. Your brass is made by firing factory ammo in the improved chamber. This is not the situation when you are firing a shorter cartridge in a longer chamber. At best you will eventually develop a ringed chamber causing hard extraction problems and basically ruining the barrel. Depending on how the cartridge is head spaced the worst case would be a blown up rifle an shooter.
The short case causing a ring in the chamber will even occur in guns such as .357 revolvers when enough 38 special ammo is fired over the years even though this is common practice it is not the best for the gun.

--------------------
It is the small calibers that are the biggest bores.

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