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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Big Bore Rifles
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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27535
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Big Bore for a Mauser Action
      #37724 - 18/09/05 01:59 AM

A while back, I decided to use a .450 Alaskan Reamer to chamber a shilen blank I picked up and put it on a 1970's Win M70 action.
: This chambering will also fit on a standard 98 Mauser and would be preferable to the m70 modern.
: In order to feed properly, no alteration of the magazine was required. To fit the magnum bolt face, the rim of the .348 case is turned down on a small lathe & a new extractor groove is cut. This is a 1 1/2 min job per case, max an only has to be done once. The brass is easily formed by opening up the .348's neck to .50 then necking back down with a standard seater die body, then FL die body. Only the base of the die is used, until they chamber. I am waiting for dies at this time, but use the base openings of a 7mm/06 die set for neck sizing at this time.
: The case capacity is listed as being 97gr., 7gr. more than the .458 win. Mag.(Donnely) Due to it's necked case design, the bullet doens't intrude on case capacity as badly as it does in the Winchester's straight walled case.
: This means that .458 data can be used, and even improved upon. So far, I haven't explored the top-end loads, but the .348 brass is immensley strong and suitable for this.
: The best reason for this wildcat, is it's compact size,(2.10" case) coupled with it's excellent performance with jacketed or cast bullets. At this time, I'm shooting 350gr. "X" and 400gr.Barnes Spitzers on up to 510gr. cast, all going into less than 1" at 100 meters. So far, the jacketed bullets at 2,250fps are soft loads, recoil-wise and performace wise as well.
: I used a Pacific reamer for the chamber job & did it by hand - quite easily, too, as I do all my widlcats.
: The picture shows both the .450 Alaskan(rimmed) and the .458 Alaskan - the only difference is the rebated rim and crimp groove, hense the .458 Alaskan designaton.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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577Enfield
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Reged: 18/12/04
Posts: 90
Loc: BC-Canada
Re: Big Bore for a Mauser Action [Re: DarylS]
      #37821 - 20/09/05 03:18 AM

sounds really good Daryl. That would be a great round in a nice single shot too. Good work.

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pwm
.300 member


Reged: 15/06/04
Posts: 216
Loc: Banana Republik of Germany
Re: Big Bore for a Mauser Action [Re: 577Enfield]
      #37826 - 20/09/05 05:02 AM

this cartridge interestet me, working on an articel about rebated rim cartridges for a gun magazin now because I have a gun in 11,2x60 Schueler. I think your wildcat is rebated, please give complete measurments.
maybe I need a dummy round, plan a pic with all rebated rim cartridges exist.

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475Guy
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Reged: 22/08/03
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Loc: Kali, US
Re: Big Bore for a Mauser Action [Re: DarylS]
      #37855 - 20/09/05 12:16 PM

That's a very interesting round. It's on par with Jack Lott's 450 G&A where he just used 404 brass cut to the length of the 458 WM and had it necked up to 458. It got honest 2250 f/s with no pressure signs and minimal compression of powder at the time. Right now I don't remember which powder he used for this but look for it.

--------------------
Lo do they call to me,
They bid me take my place among
them in the Halls of Valhalla,
Where the brave may live forever.

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Otto
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Reged: 15/09/05
Posts: 111
Loc: Arizona, USA
Re: Big Bore for a Mauser Action [Re: DarylS]
      #37873 - 20/09/05 09:23 PM

This discussion doesn't specify action modifications required to achieve the perfect feeding and function necessary in a rifle used for nasty critters. A military 98 would require significant effort to achieve perfection with 404, rimless 348, head diameter cartridges. A capable factory round that's often overlooked is the 376 Styre. Perfect length for a military 98 and action modifications are quick and easy. Removing the slight internal bosses in the milled magazine box provides the exact width for a perfect stack of 4 cartridges. Open the bolt face from .473" to .500" and you're done. Most extractors and magazine followers work without change. The 3.2+" magazine length allows bullets to be seated out to the base of the neck.

A dandy wildcat is the .416X.376 with no other change than the neck diameter. Velocities with all bullet weights equal 450X400 speeds at easy pressures. What's not to like!

Otto

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577Robert
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Reged: 10/02/05
Posts: 30
Loc: Germany, NRW
Re: Big Bore for a Mauser Action [Re: pwm]
      #37876 - 20/09/05 10:48 PM

Hi pwm,
interesting to read that you plan to write an articel over rebated rim cartridges. Do not forget to include the .404 Magnum Schueler, the last catridge invention Schueler did, to honor the man who invented the rebated rim.
Robert

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
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Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Big Bore for a Mauser Action [Re: 475Guy]
      #37884 - 21/09/05 01:58 AM

I never thought of it that way, but you're right. I do remember when Jack Lott worked on that one. The .404 case is very close to the .348 when blown out. Luckily the .348 brass is still made and easily obtained.
: I've considered building a rifle up for the same .458 Alaskan case necked to .375, but right now, the .375/06Imp that I've just put together is exceeding all expectations. 300gr. at 2,470 and 285gr. GS Speers at 2,560fps.& 235Speers at 2,845fps with very minimal load experimentation so far. Although the Improved .348 case would give another 17gr. capacity over the blown '06 case's 80gr., I'm feeling it isn't really necessary at this time.
: My desire was for a couple bear/moose thumpers & these will work splendidly.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27535
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Big Bore for a Mauser Action [Re: pwm]
      #37889 - 21/09/05 02:32 AM

PWM- I missed your post- no message to my e-mail- sorry-
: now- measurements -
:formed case - OAL- 2.145"
:rim dia - .532"
:head dia -.545"
:shoudler dia - .522"
:rim to shoulder - 1.755"
:rim to neck - 1.800
:neck length - .345"
:neck dia(loaded) - .478"
: About the action work- my 98 Mauser's that funtion with magnum rounds seem to feed this one just fine - as does the .264 magnum Winchester m70(post64) action I used. The Winchester acton I'm using holds 4 rounds in the magazine- a surprise to me.
: As well, I have an old m'71 .43 Mauser that has a .459" groove dia. The rifling is .011" deep, and of course, .439 and .446 dia' bullets were too small to shoot well. I re-chambered it with the same .450Alaskan reamer and shoot Black Powder in it along with Black Mag3 replica black powder. 2F GOEX yields 1,380fps while the BM3, same 505gr. Lee cast bullets get 1,420fps. 45gr. H4895 yields an incredible 1,500fps with low enough pressures for this old excellent condition action(actually the same pressure by measurements as 80gr. 2F gives)


--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

Edited by Daryl_S (21/09/05 02:40 AM)

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pwm
.300 member


Reged: 15/06/04
Posts: 216
Loc: Banana Republik of Germany
Re: Big Bore for a Mauser Action [Re: DarylS]
      #37900 - 21/09/05 03:19 AM

Its a true rebated rim cartridge, do you have any problems with cartridge feet from a Mauser magazin?
The bolt slide over the case head when the feet isnt work very good for the cartridge. This problem dont stand in a Westley Richards .425 magazin but i think your cartridge is to short to make the problems we see on longer rebated rim cartridges.
Your new wildcat, he- do you have an official name now, is very similar to the .45 Blaser.

577 Robert I hope I get all from the 9mm AE to the 55x175 RB, you will see it in the DWJ some day

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27535
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Big Bore for a Mauser Action [Re: pwm]
      #37902 - 21/09/05 03:43 AM

RWM- as the rim is only .010" smaller than the head, that's only .005" per side, the feeding is flawless in the m70 non-controlled feed I'm using if only 3 rounds are in the magazine. 4 rounds created too heavy a spring tension and cocked a round down in the nose. I tried it in 2 of my m98's that had been altered to short magnums, and they-too fed without a hitch.
: This round, the .450 Alaskan with it's new (I guess)rebated rim might be a new round, but may not be. The reamer I bought was listed as .458 Alaskan, which is as good a designation as any for the rebated rim design on the old "Alaskan" round.
: I've not named my 9.5X68, although reamers and dies are now available as such(mid 90's). I also haven't done much with the .30/03, which I developed back in the mid 80's. I like playing with strange stuff - with easily obtained brass and otherwise normal or wildcat reamers.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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CPRHER
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Reged: 17/03/05
Posts: 12
Re: Big Bore for a Mauser Action [Re: DarylS]
      #40127 - 30/10/05 11:57 PM

You guys may want to check out the 404 Dakota case. It may fill the bill rather well.

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