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Sectional density has to increase in proportion to the bore size. As long as sectional density is high for the caliber, then increased velocity will also increase penetration depth.

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Sectional density has to increase in proportion to the bore size. As long as sectional density is high for the caliber, then increased velocity will also increase penetration depth.

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--- as long as the bullet's compostition is up to the task of staying together at that high velocity.

With the solids available back in the 60's, John Buhmiller showed visitor Roy Weatherby his new .450 Magnum (.378 necked up to .45) and how the standard .458 Winchester outpenetrated it- both loaded to the nuts with the same 500gr. or 510gr. Solid. John cut the velocity of the big case down to about 2,350fps and subsequently outpenetrated the .458WinMag due to the 250fps higher velocity. Roy subsequently brought out John's .450 Magnum as his .460, but maintained the velocity at 2,700fps - poor move with steel jacketed, lead core bullets available then - penetration less than the .458 Win mag - with early ammo.

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Which may be, in a small part, why the Weatherby calibers have a less than stellar reputation to this day in Africa...

Ripp

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ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

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460 Weatherby Magnum !

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Velocity doesn't equal penetration, in fact it sometimes hinders it.

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500gr. FMJ bullet, 2400 fps muzzle velocity, under hot climate condition !

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Which may be, in a small part, why the Weatherby calibers have a less than stellar reputation to this day in Africa...

Ripp

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I couldn't confirm that for sure but, if it is true, it certainly applies to every other higher than average velocity caliber available at the time. Thank goodness for premium bullets! Without them, there wouldn't be the number of WSMs, RUMs, RCM, etc.. out there as we have today. I haven't been to Africa, but I've noticed nothing but solid performance on game shot here. I will say that I use only Partitions, Barnes TSX, and Nosler Accubonds.

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Edited by Der_Jaeger (02/04/09 02:36 AM)

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Der jaeger

Not always.


Shoot an animal at close range, bullet often pulls up quick,
at 100 yards, it penetrates through and out, at 250 yards, it will pull up again.

Have seen it heaps of times with 30.06, 375H&H.

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I may be wrong, but I think that may be more a function of spin rate, bullet weight, yaw, and other factors affecting flight characteristics than it does with velocity. If everything were still in balance at the higher velocity, then the projectile should also penetrate deeper. There was a lengthy thread about this very topic.

This may be overly simplistic and without some key elements, but here's how I look at it:

An arrow has high sectional density in relation to it's length. Shoot a tuned arrow into a backstop at 300fps and it will penetrate farther than a tuned arrow at 240fps. In this case, tuned means no flight wobble. If a bow is tuned for the same weight arrow at a lower speed and the draw weight is increased to increase arrow speed without other modifications, the arrow will wobble and not penetrate as far. Bullets are not arrows and backstops are not flesh, but the logic makes sense to me.

To me, it also makes sense that if the bullet weight, SD, spin rate, etc. were in tune, then higher velocities will carry the projectile deeper than lower velocities.

By this, I would say that a .458 Win Mag would penetrate farther than a .45-70 Govt, and a .458 Lott will penetrate farther than a .458 Win. Mag, and so on.

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50 BMG of course!

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50 BMG of course!

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With Depleted Uranium projectiles !!!

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How could I make such an omission???

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DuggaBoy
NRA-Life
Whittington-Life
TSRA-Life
DSC

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You are not factoring in what happen to the bullet on impact at various velocities.

My example at different distances with the same cartridge and the same bullet directly relates to the impact velocity.

This means that the bullet opens up quicker at shorter distances - ie higher velocity - and therefore has more frontal area and therefore pulls up quicker.

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You're right. What you say may be true. I didn't consider expansion and was only looking at solids. Who knows?! I'll keep using what I'm using until it doesn't work anymore

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Which may be, in a small part, why the Weatherby calibers have a less than stellar reputation to this day in Africa...

Ripp

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I couldn't confirm that for sure but, if it is true, it certainly applies to every other higher than average velocity caliber available at the time. Thank goodness for premium bullets! Without them, there wouldn't be the number of WSMs, RUMs, RCM, etc.. out there as we have today. I haven't been to Africa, but I've noticed nothing but solid performance on game shot here. I will say that I use only Partitions, Barnes TSX, and Nosler Accubonds.

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In regards to Weatherby calibers, it has been my experience in the trips I have gone there (Africa) ---good, bad, or indifferent, there seems to be no love loss for Weatherby calibers in general --you will hear an occassional good comment..but that is rare....

Agree with you, I like to use the .257 Weatherby caliber a lot here in Montana for various game and seems to work very well..extremely flat shooting and have shot game from antelope to bear and elk with it...however have been using Barnes XXX...shoots really well and holds up very well with the higher velocity...

Did not have very good results when I used Accubonds in my faster calibers--case in point is when I loaded up the 300 Ultra with 180's ..velocity was close to 3375fps---had poor penetration and massive blow up on initial entry...so have chosen to go with a tougher bullet --higher grains.200---and bit less velocity---seemed to have worked very well on my last two trips to Africa --on anything from smaller plains game to hippo, croc and eland...

thx

Ripp

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ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

Edited by Ripp (03/04/09 11:37 AM)

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Which may be, in a small part, why the Weatherby calibers have a less than stellar reputation to this day in Africa...

Ripp

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Thank goodness for premium bullets! Without them, there wouldn't be the number of WSMs, RUMs, RCM, etc.. out there as we have today.

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Just to shit stir, but I haven't seen a good enough reason for all these new Ultra and short Magnums other than for Gun sales and I can't say that's all that great, certainly not great for Ammo availability.

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Which may be, in a small part, why the Weatherby calibers have a less than stellar reputation to this day in Africa...

Ripp

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Thank goodness for premium bullets! Without them, there wouldn't be the number of WSMs, RUMs, RCM, etc.. out there as we have today.

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Just to shit stir, but I haven't seen a good enough reason for all these new Ultra and short Magnums other than for Gun sales and I can't say that's all that great, certainly not great for Ammo availability.

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Still Stirring...

You are probably right--the gun companies, ammo manufacturers, etc. all need to keep the interest going..are they needed??...NO...will they be purchased ??..probably ..so by virtue of that alone, they only have to calculate how many will buy them and start producing..

Guess they count on people like me..as I have never met a cartridge I really hate..I do like some much more than others...but I do like many of the new rounds out today...

Personally really like the 300 Ultra-mag---don't think it will do anything the 300 Win mag did--or really the old '06 other than shoot a bit flatter, which I also like a lot...but, the one I have shoots very well and hammers game I have taken with it....but then again, dead is dead...

Ripp

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ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

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Which may be, in a small part, why the Weatherby calibers have a less than stellar reputation to this day in Africa...

Ripp

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Chuck

They work well, shot a few Big buff with them.

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Now to really stir it up...

I've been silent too long...

While some of us tinkerers cobble and patch and glue on our one old "Swedish elk rifle", RIPP is out there single-handedly keeping the Great American Arms Manufacturing Industry afloat thru these tough Recession times.

If it wasn't for the Buying Power of this Great American, gunmaking would have gone the way of the .25 Remington Model 8. Dead and gone...

Alas, we have RIPP propping up all those calibers, keeping the machines running and the heat treatment plants burning and the sales clerks at the till!!

So if he likes those new fangled Ultras, he's allright by me!!

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Guess this one slide by me without seeing it..been on the road alot lately..BUT, .WTH.???.

9.3---you will be happy to know not ALL are new calibers---picked up a varmint .223 target model the other day---went out and shot it today actually...broke in the barrel (yes I know, not all agree that needs to be done..) ..and tried a few loads in it--shooting quite well---will get serious in the next week or two with it...

You are a funny man...laughed out loud when I read this...my wife asked what was so funny...had her read it...she didn't think it was so funny...me buying all those guns and all..

Take care

Ripp

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ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

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