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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Mannlicher Discussion forum & Archive
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fsrmg1
.300 member


Reged: 25/07/03
Posts: 158
Loc: Western Australia
Scope Mounts for 1903 Mannlicher Shoenauer Rifle?
      #247502 - 17/05/14 07:34 PM

Who makes quality scope mounts for the commercial Steyr Mod. 1903 Mannlicher Shoenauer sporting rifle? As I don't want to alter the stock, I would like something as low mounted as possible and not too bulky. I also don't want to alter the rifle radically just to install the mounts. I’ve seen some ugly mounting systems out there.

Any suggestions?

--------------------
Cheers,

Rich

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Waidmannsheil
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Reged: 19/04/13
Posts: 2539
Loc: Melbourne Australia
Re: Scope Mounts for 1903 Mannlicher Shoenauer Rifle? [Re: fsrmg1]
      #247503 - 17/05/14 07:39 PM

Recknagel make mounts and rings, particularly claw mounts which look really good but will have to be professionally fitted.

Waidmannsheil.

--------------------
There is nothing wrong with vegetarian food, so long as there is meat with it.

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Mike_Bailey
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Reged: 26/02/07
Posts: 2289
Loc: GB
Re: Scope Mounts for 1903 Mannlicher Shoenauer Rifle? [Re: Waidmannsheil]
      #247504 - 17/05/14 09:19 PM

I have EAW on mine, I can send a photo if you like, best, Mike

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xausa
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Reged: 07/03/07
Posts: 2037
Loc: Tennessee, USA
Re: Scope Mounts for 1903 Mannlicher Shoenauer Rifle? [Re: fsrmg1]
      #247505 - 17/05/14 09:29 PM

I have this on my 1903 M-S. Admittedly the rifle was pretty abused when I got it and I might otherwise have chosen a more elegant solution. http://www.wattswalnut.com/ms_scope_bases.php

One of my other M-S rifles has a Griffin and Howe side mount (already installed when I bought it) and another has traditional German claw mounts (bases already in place when I bought it). I still have a takedown 1903 with no scope and haven't yet decided what I want to put on it. I missed a chance to buy scope with a complete claw mount system (bases and rings) on a German auction site, but I guess I will just keep looking.

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fsrmg1
.300 member


Reged: 25/07/03
Posts: 158
Loc: Western Australia
Re: Scope Mounts for 1903 Mannlicher Shoenauer Rifle? [Re: Mike_Bailey]
      #247523 - 18/05/14 06:49 PM

Hi Mike,

I've heard a lot of good things about EAW mounts, photos of that setup would be much appreciated.

--------------------
Cheers,

Rich

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awanderingbear
.224 member


Reged: 12/05/14
Posts: 32
Loc: Pacifc Northwest
Re: Scope Mounts for 1903 Mannlicher Shoenauer Rifle? [Re: fsrmg1]
      #247538 - 19/05/14 11:00 AM

Here's a contact for EAW mounts through New England Custom Guns, hope it helps.
http://www.newenglandcustomgun.com/Gun_Services/Scope_Mounts.asp

I've mostly used Redfield scope mounts over the years, and they work fine, and probably the most reasonably priced out there these days, considering. Or a copy of the same.
Griffin & Howe side mounts are a delight, allowing for quick attaching/removal when wanting iron sight use. Though very pricey anymore!
Jaeger side mounts as good as the Griffin & Howe, havd one mounted on a Model 1903, just very difficult to find anymore, seeing as how most are already mounted on a rifle. In 1978 bought a Weaver 3x, when they offered the German #1 reticle, sending both off to Jaeger for them to install their side mounting system.
Might be able to locate on of the old Leupold scope mounts, but again, mostly there are already mounted on a rifle.
Williams and Pachmyr side mounts are as ugly as they come! ugh
EAW mounts and installation is costly, but top a notch setup, and NECG does very quality work.

Being a newby here not able to post a picture yet - guess have to do a few posts before can add a picture? Otherwise would post a picture of a Pre-WWII German scope mount on another Model 1903, which is similar to the Jaeger quick detachable side mount.

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awanderingbear
.224 member


Reged: 12/05/14
Posts: 32
Loc: Pacifc Northwest
Re: Scope Mounts for 1903 Mannlicher Shoenauer Rifle? [Re: awanderingbear]
      #247539 - 19/05/14 11:21 AM

Got to looking around after sending the above Post Reply.
This might be of some assistance in what you're looking for.
Price is reasonable. I'd not hesitate to use them if needed a scope mount.
Of course you'll have to drill n' tape the back/side of the action, and front ring.
For a collector that will cause them to cringe n' bring tears to their eyes!
No idea what the condition of your Model 1903 is in, but it's your call what you want to do with it.
They're tools, first and foremost...

Hope it's ok to post the web address here for you:
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=415695480


I never really was a collector, but use to have GAS (Gear Acquisition Syndrome) with Mannlicher Schoenauers: MCA's in .243, .308, .30-06. 6.5x54, 7x57 and even the rare .358, all full stock carbines. A Model 1952 in 9.3x62, along with assorted Model 1903's. Was one of the founders of the Mannlicher Collector's Association when it started in 1985. In the 1990's thinned the herd down to my favorites, keeping 3 Model 1903's. Still have them to this day, along with an MCA in .308 and an MCA in .264. I'd sold the MCA .308 in 1994 in Alaska, then of all things saw it on an auction site last year and bought it back - 19 years later!

It seems once the Mannlicher Schoenauer's get in your blood, they never truly go away...!

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Mike_Bailey
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Reged: 26/02/07
Posts: 2289
Loc: GB
Re: Scope Mounts for 1903 Mannlicher Shoenauer Rifle? [Re: awanderingbear]
      #247543 - 19/05/14 05:54 PM

Fsrmg1, here you go. If it helps the mounts cost US$440 and the smith charged US$370 to fit them but it really does seem solid as a rock. Sorry about photo quality best, Mike

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GG375
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Reged: 27/02/04
Posts: 347
Loc: Brisbane
Re: Scope Mounts for 1903 Mannlicher Shoenauer Rifle? [Re: Mike_Bailey]
      #247544 - 19/05/14 06:35 PM


Fsrmg1

I recently had a modern set of claw mounts fitted to my 1903. Like all claw mounts I've seen they position the scope fairly high. I decided to just use a canvas comb riser which fits to the butt stock when I shoot/hunt with her. It works well.

Cheers.

GG

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fsrmg1
.300 member


Reged: 25/07/03
Posts: 158
Loc: Western Australia
Re: Scope Mounts for 1903 Mannlicher Shoenauer Rifle? [Re: Mike_Bailey]
      #247545 - 19/05/14 08:11 PM

Hi Mike,

With the scope removed on the EAW system, are the bases low enough to see the sights above them or would you need to remove them completely to use the iron sights?

--------------------
Cheers,

Rich

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DORLEAC
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Reged: 22/01/12
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Loc: Perpignan, France
Re: Scope Mounts for 1903 Mannlicher Shoenauer Rifle? [Re: fsrmg1]
      #247556 - 20/05/14 12:15 AM


For me, the best scope mount for Mannlicher-Schönauer rifles is the traditional claw mount.
Quickly detachable and no zero loss when perfectly hand fitted.

DORLEAC
www.dorleac-dorleac.com














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Mike_Bailey
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Reged: 26/02/07
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Loc: GB
Re: Scope Mounts for 1903 Mannlicher Shoenauer Rifle? [Re: DORLEAC]
      #247559 - 20/05/14 04:58 AM

Dorleac is probably right here. I wanted a ghost ring aperture and front sight as "irons" but had to forego them as I would have needed a ramped front sight of about 1 1/2" which would have looked rubbish, shame ! , best

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Igorrock
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Reged: 01/03/07
Posts: 1689
Loc: Finland
Re: Scope Mounts for 1903 Mannlicher Shoenauer Rifle? [Re: Mike_Bailey]
      #247574 - 20/05/14 06:08 PM

Mike, your MS looks like special one. Haven´t ever seen such way to attach rear scope mount and there is something strange in bolts rear end and safety too....

Claw mounts are good but not the usefull ones because if you have to, for reason or another change the type or size of scope, work for it will cost quite much, probably many hundred euros. There in sweden is company which business is assembly rail between claw mounts rear and front under parts. After that you could use normal mounts when attching the scope.

--------------------
http://promaakari.wordpress.com/

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kuduae
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Reged: 13/01/10
Posts: 1809
Loc: middle of Germany
Re: Scope Mounts for 1903 Mannlicher Shoenauer Rifle? [Re: Igorrock]
      #247578 - 20/05/14 08:48 PM

It is impossible to mount a scope LOW on a pre-1952 Mannlicher-Schoenauer , M 03, 05, 08, 10, 24, 25, 1950, without extensive alterations to the action. All these actions have clip guides at the front of the receiver bridge. As the bolt handle has to clear these clip guides, it raises fairly high. Additionally, the sole wing type safety must be turned under the scope. Even if the scope is mounted fairly high, there is very little space under the scope to do turn the wing. See Dorleac’s photo:

From 1952 on the Steyr factory left off the clip guides to allow a bolt handle forged lower. This allowed for a lower bolt handle lift and thus lower mounting of a scope. But as a low mounted scope made the standard wing safety inoperative, Steyr added an additional sear-blocking safety, side- first, later tang-.
Mike Bailey’s photos show a M1903 Greek military action heavily altered to allow for lower scope mounting: Clip guides removed from the receiver bridge and bolt handle rewelded closer to bolt body. A completely new, custom firing pin nut/safety design is installed instead of the classic Mannlicher wing safety. As the EAW side swing mounts are fairly high themselves, all these efforts still did not lead to a really low-mounted scope.

So if you want to avoid action alterations, raise the safety wing to an upright position. Then place a scope, parallel to action and bore, above the upright safety wing. This is about as low as you can mount that scope without excessive reworking of the M1903 Mannlicher-Schoenauer action.
Personally, I have Mannlicher-Schoenauers with These types of Mounts: M24 with the obsolete Vienna snap-on mount, M03 by Gibbs with an EAW side mount (similar to the G&H or Jaeger one), M25 and 03 with claw Mounts dovetailed into receiver ring, M10 and "Magnum" Action claw mounted with fron base ring mounted on barrel. I agree with Joel Dorleac: A claw mount is the only proper way to mount a scope on an early Mannlicher-Schoenauer.

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kuduae
.400 member


Reged: 13/01/10
Posts: 1809
Loc: middle of Germany
Re: Scope Mounts for 1903 Mannlicher Shoenauer Rifle? [Re: kuduae]
      #247579 - 20/05/14 09:19 PM

BTW, EAW now offers a much more streamlined pivot mount for the split bridge Mannlicher-Schoenauers, their Pivot Mounts with Lever release, see their online catalog:
http://www.eaw.de/assets/files/2014/EAW_Katalog_2014_Web.pdf , low on page 60.
Here the rear base is offset, just like on the more common three-feet claw mounts. So the rear base is out of sight, but the front base, if mounted on the receiver ring, may still cover the fatory open sights. Maybe it will come a bit less expensive than a claw mount. NECGC may offer these mounts too.

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Igorrock
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Reged: 01/03/07
Posts: 1689
Loc: Finland
Re: Scope Mounts for 1903 Mannlicher Shoenauer Rifle? [Re: kuduae]
      #247581 - 20/05/14 10:15 PM

Thank for the hint of those EAW MS mounts, kuduae.

--------------------
http://promaakari.wordpress.com/

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kuduae
.400 member


Reged: 13/01/10
Posts: 1809
Loc: middle of Germany
Re: Scope Mounts for 1903 Mannlicher Shoenauer Rifle? [Re: Igorrock]
      #247584 - 20/05/14 11:10 PM

Here are some more photos of scope mounts on Mannlicher-Schoenauers:
An EAW side mount on a M1903 6.5x54M-S by G.Gibbs

http://www.eaw.de/assets/files/2014/EAW_Katalog_2014_Web.pdf
page 105
(Caution, for most Mannlicher-Schoenauers up to the 1950s you have to use the mount designated by EAW as for „Carl Gustav 1900”, that is small ring Mauser. The mount EAW calls “for Mannlicher-Schoenauer” has a flat-sided base designed for the late GK, MC and MCA models that already had a blind, flat plate attached to the left side of the receiver for attaching such a mount.)
Three more, top to bottom:
Vienna snap on, obsolete since WW2, once handmade one by one and offered by Steyr as a “factory” option.
Claw mount with front base dovetailed into receiver ring, frowned upon now by proof houses.
Claw mount with front base ring soldered on barrel shank

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