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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Big Bore Rifles
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blackbearhunter
.333 member


Reged: 15/06/04
Posts: 273
Loc: swamp
Custom DGR Rifle
      #18737 - 01/09/04 06:28 AM

Hey Nitro Express Brothers,I had diana smile on me today!!!
I was going to head out the door today to go try for a coyote and decided for some reason to grab my trade rifle and go check out this little hole in the wall gunshop on the way,i would have the trade rifle incase he had something that caught my eye.Well I walked in and went stright to her like in a movie.She was just laying there on the rack all lonely looking and all and she was the prettiest rifle they had,I could see her all the way from across the room.
The owner walked up and I asked to hold her and I was guessing the whole time that the price was going to choke me and I was going to cry,because I could tell it was going to be one of those love at first sight kinda meetings!
Well he handed her over and I shouldered her and she came up like a perfectly fitting glove!She felt like a beauty queen in my arms!I looked down at the price on the tag & almost broke my arm getting my money out!!!!
I asked the good fellow if he took trades and he said sure,so i told him what I had and he said he would be glad to trade!Man you talk about rifle tradeing Luck!
I ran to my car and brought my trade rifle in and he looked it over and the deal was done!
I gotta beautiful walnut stocked Interarms/cz/markX in 458winchester that looks unfired for a SONG!!!!
It is a super nice looking rifle with the 2 folding leave express sight.The pistol grip cap is case colored and the stock has a shadow cheek piece,ebony buffalo horn tip and sling barrel band with brown pad with whitworth stamped in the middle in a circle.I has one recoil lug in front but thats all and no recoil in the back,The serial # is 5xxx.
I think it is one of the prettiest rifles I have ever seen and the walnut stock has fantastic tiger srtips and the checkering looks custom.
I have a bunch of questions about this rifle and would appreciate any help as I have never seen a cz like this one!
I looked her over real good and noticed that the barrel looked like it had been free floated and it was more than I had ever seen gapped.The barrel was way to the left and not centered in the stock!I told the dealer it looked warped and that I would take a chance anyway!I figure since I was already ahead of the game by getting it for a song that the action would be worth a gamble.
I bee lined it to the nearest gun smith and went bee boping in with my new found treasure walking about a foot off the ground Iam sure!
He gave it the once over,cleaned the bore and inspected it good,Took the screw driver and looked at me and says Dam,The SCREWS ARE NOT EVEN TIGHTENED DOWN!!!
Man could you imagine shooting a 458 with out the action bolted down!Diana had smiled on me twice!I sure was glad I didnt just run to the rifle range and touch one off!!
Any way he took the barreled action out and says that someone had put a lug on the bottom of the barrel and did a poor job!!
He took it off and says he can take out the accuglass they had in around it and that he couldnt figure why they had done it to begin with?He says just go ahead and shoot her the way she is and see how she will group now and we could go from there!He said the rifle was mint and had been work on and didnt need anything done to it he could tell except maybe put a shim under the express ight to tighten it up some because it was just barely loose and wouldnt tighten up any more.The action and the trigger was perfect!He says it didnt need a rear recoil lug or the barrel(homemade one).What do you hunters think?Should I justb shoot it and then see how she does?I thought everyone on here says to glass the whole action or the stock will split on a cz after a few shots?Is this true? Should I get a second opion from another smith?I looked at the action again and found a differt serial number,this one is 296xxx.Can anyone tell me when this rifle was made and is it a factory whitworth rifle made by cz now?It does have made alexandria virginia on the left-interarms in the middle-manchester england on the right and cz in a circle to the right of that.
I got the rifle at such a great deal and I like it so much I would like to engrave the floor plate or do case coloring on it at the least!!!
How much money will it cost to make her in a custom dangerous Game rifle by the pro african bufflo guides and hunters that you experince gentleman are?What all can be done?If I get the floor plate engraved can I still get it case colored also?Is this ever done?Anyone got any pics of there rifle floor plates done up this way?Will the engraveing be done first or last?I would like a elephant or cape bufflo or rhino engraved on it.How much does that cost and who would you recommend?The smith said he could do the lott ream out and really any thing else I wanted to do.He said he could case color the plate for 100.00.Does that sound right?What else could be case colored?The bolt?Should I fiber glass the whole inside of the stock channel?The stock is so nice I may just get another one to hunt with,Would you guess the stock I have now is turkish walnut or circassian?I dont know how to tell?What kind of walnut does cz use?The rifle feels REAL LITE in weight and I would guess 8# maximum.The rifle has a 24in,barrel but no hood on the front sight but is slotted to accept one.Should I put a hood on it?Are Hoods recommended for DGR rifles?Any suggestions would really help as this old girl is a keeper!!!!!
Needless to say Iam very,very happy with my new Betsey!!!!
The smith says that a 2in.group should be easy at 50yrds.to obtain the way she is set up now and would be acceptable on a 458wm.Does this sound right?He said he could work on the barrel channel and barrel harmonics were it touches the wood and get her tighter than that if she needs it.Has anyone ever gone thru this before with a rifle and could you give me some accurate/DGRrifle building
tips and ideas ?Can the safety be changed and what kind of choices could I have?The one on it now looks like a belgium browning safari on the right side sorta like a remington where you just push it forward and it just slides?Thanks for the help guys and I just had to share my good luck with everyone!!!!!Maybe it will rub off
Oh yea ,I never Did get to go chase those old coyotes!!
Are they gonna be surprised with what i got for them today

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blackbearhunter
.333 member


Reged: 15/06/04
Posts: 273
Loc: swamp
Re: Custom DGR Rifle [Re: blackbearhunter]
      #18744 - 01/09/04 08:21 AM

New guys custom brno in 416 on the pics of your favorite big bore was what i was looking for/asking about.He case colored the trigger guard & the floor plate & the back of the bolt.Very pretty rifle!!!I like the front sight hood also.What would be everyones favorite animal to have engraved on the floor plate?That is a hard question,Lepords are also some of the prettiest animals along with the tigers and sheena .Also i really liked the guar on nitrx double rifle.Dangerous game engraveing always makes for a classy looking rifle as do other engraveings/animals.I ask how much does engraveing cost?,just never checked it out before and am in the dark on this custom rifle stuff as far as fair prices.I know some engraveing is not very nicely done and can look like a bad cartoon more than anything else.......especially DUCKS,they seem to be the hardest to look right as do some dogs engraved really look bad....anyone got any pics of engraved animals that look classy on there favorite rifles?I know some of the nicest i have seen were on old german Drillings & New&old german double rifles!!!!

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blackbearhunter
.333 member


Reged: 15/06/04
Posts: 273
Loc: swamp
Re: Custom DGR Rifle [Re: blackbearhunter]
      #18745 - 01/09/04 08:40 AM

Also will a 458x2 cartridge fire in a standard 458wm safely?Is this done?Also is interarms/markx still in business and are they still in england?Is parker hale still around also?Since my rifle has cz on it will they back it if i brake a stock or need work or parts?Hows there service and how do i get in touch with them?Where in usa are they based?Do they offer a custom shop?

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mickey
.416 member


Reged: 05/01/03
Posts: 4647
Loc: Pend Oreille Valley, Idaho
Re: Custom DGR Rifle [Re: blackbearhunter]
      #18751 - 01/09/04 11:39 AM

Calm down there boy I say. I say calm down.

It sounds like you have a Whitworth Express. this was made by Zastava in the old Yugoslavia. It is not a CZ/BRNO. Whitworths are very nice rifles and normally shoot extremely well right from the box. I don't know about the bedding and recoil work but that rifle is probably capable of much better than a 4" group.

They were shipped to England for final fit an finish and are in every way superior to a CZ. It is too bad it was home smithed but you will be alright.

That rifle needs a front recoil lug, despite what your smith tells you. Have one put on and bed the action and the first few inches of the barrel. Free float the rest.
I don't know why a new screw wouldn't tighten up the express site. Add some locktite

Replace the trigger assembly with a Timney with the built in safety, or better yet, put in a Timney and a 2 or 3 position Winchester type wing safety.

You can replace the very hard recoil pad if you think they make a difference. (I don't)

I like the Whitworths allot. They have the feel of an English rifle and are light and very handy.

Anything under $700.00 is a good deal.

Forget about screwing around with other cartridges. Just load it down if you want.

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.

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blackbearhunter
.333 member


Reged: 15/06/04
Posts: 273
Loc: swamp
Re: Custom DGR Rifle [Re: mickey]
      #18753 - 01/09/04 12:22 PM

Hey mickey,i know I sound excited! Iam, that old whitworth is bad to the bone! I really like the look of new guys 416 with the case colors & all and the old whitworth sure would dress up like that!It kinda got me going there for a minute with that big old bore & those express sights and all !
The barrel is kinda small and light looking like it ought to be a 338 or something.I have seen bigger barrels on a 375H&H.
I agree with what you said about the lug and bedding and i would like a swing safety better for sure.You guess the rifle was made in the 70s?I know i sure like it and look forward to getting it right and shooting.Thanks abunch. I just had a great funday

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mickey
.416 member


Reged: 05/01/03
Posts: 4647
Loc: Pend Oreille Valley, Idaho
Re: Custom DGR Rifle [Re: mickey]
      #18755 - 01/09/04 12:50 PM

Some more comments.

Forget about the Lott. The rifle is much too light and why screw up the balance and handling ability for a marginal increase in power?

Yes, you may get a hood. Just don't hunt with it. If you find, after time and use, that you don't care for the original front site than shop up an after market front site.

I would think about some very low Kimber or Talley bases and a small variable scope in quick detach mounts.

There is nothing worse than poor engraving. Good work takes time and cost money.

Most Whitworth stocks have very nice wood. Use it and enjoy it. They can always be refinished.

You have a wonderful rifle and I think that even after the newness wears off you will still love it.

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.

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blackbearhunter
.333 member


Reged: 15/06/04
Posts: 273
Loc: swamp
Re: Custom DGR Rifle [Re: mickey]
      #18775 - 02/09/04 12:42 AM

Yea I thought I was on the right track but just wasnt sure.I dont know anything about cz rifles.I hate to ask so many questions but figured if i could just get it out everyone on NE.could help me sort the old rifle out.some one with first hand experince always gives better advice than a novice.I had my own ideas about the set up but just needed to verify a few things.Thanks a bunch for the help!!

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nopride2
.300 member


Reged: 03/01/04
Posts: 108
Loc: Seattle, Wa.
Re: Custom DGR Rifle [Re: blackbearhunter]
      #18840 - 03/09/04 11:44 AM

All of the Whitworth express rifle in 375 and 458 had factory mounted barrel recoil lugs. They were dovetailed to to the barrel. Check to be sure the lug is tight in the dovetail, some were not.

Dave

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blackbearhunter
.333 member


Reged: 15/06/04
Posts: 273
Loc: swamp
Re: Custom DGR Rifle [Re: nopride2]
      #18862 - 03/09/04 07:27 PM

Charles Daly web sight has the barreled actions for sale as well as the whole rifles.Check em out,my stock looks different but the action is the same.Zastava is making them.

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atkinson6
.375 member


Reged: 26/01/04
Posts: 678
Loc: Idaho
Re: Custom DGR Rifle [Re: blackbearhunter]
      #18895 - 04/09/04 04:36 AM

What you have is a Whitworth Express Mauser...

I disagree with your smith, big bores like that need to be glass bedded, cross bolted, and have that all important second barrel lug...or you will split the stock out sooner or later, regardless of how well its bedded, it will pound a gap and split the stock at least 85% of the time would be my guess. Without the second lug make that 99% of the time.

Someone wanted to releive the barrel channel and started cutting wood off each side of the barrel channal, WRONG, the way to do that is see what pressure is bareing on the side of the tang that makes to gun sit slanted in its mortise...and that still needs to be done with your gun to take all the stress off the action, then fill that big gap on each side of the barrel channal with glass, thats about all you can do in your case short of re stocking..

Sounds like to me you got a great deal, and its easily repairable, but get yourself a smith that works with big bores..Many smiths never work with big bores and they try to apply regular rifle practices to them, such as your smith is doing IMO....Not good.

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blackbearhunter
.333 member


Reged: 15/06/04
Posts: 273
Loc: swamp
Re: Custom DGR Rifle [Re: atkinson6]
      #18903 - 04/09/04 05:16 AM

Thanks Ray.I will do it.I may just restock altogether.

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new_guy
Sponsor


Reged: 10/08/04
Posts: 581
Loc: Texas
Re: Custom DGR Rifle [Re: blackbearhunter]
      #19329 - 21/09/04 01:34 AM

blackbearhunter - The case color work on my 416 was done by Doug Turnbull. It goes a long way to improving the looks and won't set you back ($$) like an equal amount engraving coverage will.

If you want parts of it engraved, let doug know and he can coordinate that with several engravers he uses.

I'd consider case coloring the triggerguard and floorplate, the safety shroud, grip cap and if you scope it with a good looking steel ring like the Talley's - the rings.

let me know if you have any questions.

contact doug here:

http://www.turnbullrestoration.com/

--------------------
www.heymUSA.com

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blackbearhunter
.333 member


Reged: 15/06/04
Posts: 273
Loc: swamp
Re: Custom DGR Rifle [Re: new_guy]
      #19330 - 21/09/04 03:07 AM

Thanks new guy,I might skip the engraveing after I have been looking at lots of it, it is hard to find engraveing that looks great & priced resonable,I agree with you about the case coloring really looks fantastic,I will use d.t. for sure,my gunsmith even recommended him.I really like the old girl and want to dress her up a bit as I am going to keep this one...she handles like a dream
shes gonna be a favorite!

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