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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Double Rifles
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NitroXAdministrator
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Double blowing up in Botswana
      #14874 - 17/05/04 03:04 PM

Oops!

And it was a modern double too supposedly using factory ammo and with clear barrels.

The damage was said to be in front or at the chambers.



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mickey
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Re: Double blowing up in Botswana [Re: NitroX]
      #14877 - 17/05/04 03:16 PM

I was going to post the same question. Does anybody here have any firsthand experience with a Double blowing up? Any information on the cause? Any odd reasons beyond a plugged barrel or serious over load? Other than those two reasons I can't see how a newer Double can blow up. Wouldn't it have to be a major flaw in the steel? Do barrels get magnafluxed or x rayed?

Also does anybody here remember the reports of the 2 American made Doubles that failed at the London Proof House in the early 90's? Anyone know what kind?

I have also heard the Austrians have refused to accept some American Doubles and lever action 45-70's for proofing. Any one hear this? This was posted on another Forum.

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.

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DUGABOY1
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Reged: 02/02/03
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Re: Double blowing up in Botswana [Re: mickey]
      #14897 - 18/05/04 02:36 AM

There seems to be a great need to want this RUMOR to grow, and grow! I don't know what happened or even "IF" it happened, so I'll wait for some FACTS!

The thing that makes me nervous are the words CUSTOM DOUBLE RIFLE!

There is a book, here in the states, on the market right now that is titled: "Building Double Rifles on Shotgun Actions".This book is being talked about a lot by people who I consider to be looking for the $600 double rifle, without any knowledge of double rifles at all. One or two of these people have also expressed a desire to rebarrel the little cheap Biakal double rifle to chamberings like the 470NE, and use this book as a guide for how to go about it! A lot of junk is going to come of this! I predict, in the near future, we will see a rash of these type happenings, as a result! One of these could be the culprit here, even with good ammo!

--------------------
..........Mac >>>===(x)===>
DUGABOY1, and MacD37 founding member of DRSS www.doublerifleshooterssociety.com
"If I die today, I have had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Double blowing up in Botswana [Re: DUGABOY1]
      #14900 - 18/05/04 03:02 AM

Facts aren't bad for a sensible discussion.



--------------------
John aka NitroX

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atkinson6
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Reged: 26/01/04
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Re: Double blowing up in Botswana [Re: NitroX]
      #14902 - 18/05/04 03:19 AM

I'm with you Mac, there does seem to be a need, why that is so is beyond me...There is no competition between the old and the new in this case..They have altogeter different agendas in my opinnion...I love the old guns collect and shot them, and I hunt with a new Searcy...I don't find this particularly criminal...

I get the feeling some of the old gun fans feel threatened by the existence of the new guns, nothing could be more ridiculas...both have their good and bad points in my mind.

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atkinson6
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Re: Double blowing up in Botswana [Re: atkinson6]
      #14913 - 18/05/04 05:52 AM

The above rumor mill took place in Botswana at one of Johan calitzs camps, the rifle was a 375 H&H double rifle that the client had owned for 15 years, It had no makers name or any proof marks on it..The client is in Joberg and may lose his thumb...

I suspect the blowup occurred as a result of shooting factory 375 ammo with a pressure rating of about 50,000 PSI. It may have shot off the face and continued shooting lead up to the event...It blew up in front of the chambers which tells me that ammo blew up in the chamber and that strengthens my beleif....

I book for Johan and am in touch with him and will report the findings to all as soon as I know all the facts....

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bonanza50
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Re: Double blowing up in Botswana [Re: atkinson6]
      #14915 - 18/05/04 06:18 AM

What does "shoot off the face" mean?

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mickey
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Re: Double blowing up in Botswana [Re: atkinson6]
      #14924 - 18/05/04 11:42 AM

Ray and mac

If it was one of the rechambered 45-70s, one built from a shotgun or a rifle shooting a rimless high pressure round that would explain a lot.

I cannot see an new rifle or an old one blowing up without some sort of cause that is owner generated. Such as an overloaded round or an obstruction?

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.

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475Guy
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Re: Double blowing up in Botswana [Re: bonanza50]
      #14927 - 18/05/04 12:46 PM

Shooting Off Face is usually when the barrels are closed on the receiver, there is a big gap where they meet and the tolerances are no longer there. When you shut the barrels on the receiver, you should hear that solid thunk sound like when you close the safe door with no gap. There are guys who can better state the Off Face phenomena better than I and may chime in sooner or later.

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unspellable
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Re: Double blowing up in Botswana [Re: mickey]
      #14941 - 18/05/04 10:15 PM

I have seen photographs of a couple of blown rifles. In both cases the side of the barrel failed just in front of the chamber.

No idea as to the cause.

Puts the lie to the popular saying that doubles are weak in the action since in both cases the action held up fine and the barrel failed.

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Double blowing up in Botswana [Re: unspellable]
      #14944 - 18/05/04 11:57 PM

Doubles with barrels blown in front of chambers? Sounds like hang-fires.



--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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500grains
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Re: Double blowing up in Botswana [Re: NitroX]
      #14954 - 19/05/04 03:13 AM

From Accuratereloading.com:

In reply to:

The .470 that blew up in BOTS was a Sako .375 with a fluted barrel. I received the following email that Butch Searcy forwarded to me this morning:

In reply to:


Johan Calitz has been in contact with Jeff Rann Safaris, who says that it was a 375 Custom Sako with a fluted barrel that blew up. We are registering on Accurate Reloading and will then give this comment on the forum. Obviously someone doesn't like you very much!

Please feel free to quote either me or Johan Calitz and post your own comments. It might be a day or two before our registration is through and we can give comment.




Butch is having some difficulty getting logged onto AR and so has not been able to post this himself.

So a couple of corrections are in order. The rifle was a .375, not a .470. It was a Sako custom rifle, not a Searcy. And the accident was not in Mr. Calitz's camp.

If I hear of more details I will be happy to relate them here.



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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Double blowing up in Botswana [Re: 500grains]
      #14960 - 19/05/04 03:59 AM

Was the Sako even a double rifle? What double frame would have been used from Sako?

I note also the singular fluted "barrel" being used.



--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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500grains
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Re: Double blowing up in Botswana [Re: NitroX]
      #14963 - 19/05/04 05:39 AM

I am only familiar with Sako bolt guns. It is hard to imagine a fluted barrel on a double.

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mickey
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Re: Double blowing up in Botswana [Re: 500grains]
      #14964 - 19/05/04 06:38 AM

So, Saeed, who first said it was a Double and 700nitro who said it was a Searcy are the culprits. I guess that will call for an apology.

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.

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DUGABOY1
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Re: Double blowing up in Botswana [Re: 500grains]
      #14966 - 19/05/04 07:50 AM

In reply to:

In reply to:

Johan Calitz has been in contact with Jeff Rann Safaris, who says that it was a 375 Custom Sako with a fluted barrel that blew up. We are registering on Accurate Reloading and will then give this comment on the forum. Obviously someone doesn't like you very much!

Please feel free to quote either me or Johan Calitz and post your own comments. It might be a day or two before our registration is through and we can give comment.





You see? Folks this is why I'm so bothered by those who feel they need to jump on the things they don't like without any facts! I agree with Micky, I think some folks here need to eat some roast crow, and appologise to those suspected without foundation!

SAKO never made a shotgun, or double rifle, so I think the first post was simply someone with their foot planted firmly in the mouth! But then that would be only a guess! So maybe I shouldn't say something I might have to eat!

--------------------
..........Mac >>>===(x)===>
DUGABOY1, and MacD37 founding member of DRSS www.doublerifleshooterssociety.com
"If I die today, I have had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Double blowing up in Botswana [Re: DUGABOY1]
      #14974 - 19/05/04 12:21 PM

Mac

My first post is so general, "a double", "supposedly using factory ammo", "said to be in front or at the chambers".

It was an interesting exercise to see who would jump in immediately to defend what.

Why are people feeling obligated to defend something so quickly, I wonder ?





--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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Gibbs505
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Re: Double blowing up in Botswana [Re: NitroX]
      #14981 - 19/05/04 02:03 PM

So I am confused. Maybe that is not surprising, but why would anyone want to jump in on this?

Before we hang anyone of send the rifle maker to hadfs, lets get the facts and make a somewhat reasoned response to the situation!! Eh?

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Rusty
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Re: Double blowing up in Botswana [Re: Gibbs505]
      #14988 - 19/05/04 06:55 PM

I'm with Gibbs here. Why would this need to be jumped on?
Accidents happen. I like the statement above, "Facts aren't bad for a sensible discussion."

In the media, we refer to what we see here and other threads as "Feeding Frenzy".

Just my opine.

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Double blowing up in Botswana [Re: Rusty]
      #14993 - 19/05/04 10:47 PM

I'm going to close this thread. The rifle is not even a double, not a .470, we have different reports of what calibre the bolt action is. This thread which I started here is silly.

If someone wants to start a new thread on the actual rifle, a fluted bolt action Sako, please feel free.



--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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