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470Rigby
.333 member


Reged: 23/02/04
Posts: 328
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Why Are Boxlock Action Bars Shorter?
      #13623 - 17/04/04 08:50 AM

Has anyone observed that action bars on Anson and Deeley boxlock actions are invariably shorter than on sidelocks of the same calibre/bore?

Since extra metal is removed from the bottom of the bar of boxlock actions to take the locks and the table is usually thinner, the strength of the bar must be less than that of a bar action sidelock; why are the bars on boxlocks shorter?




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DUGABOY1
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Reged: 02/02/03
Posts: 1340
Loc: TEXAS USA
Re: Why Are Boxlock Action Bars Shorter? [Re: 470Rigby]
      #13649 - 18/04/04 02:01 AM

Actually the weakest action type, as far as flex goes is the BAR ACTION SIDE LOCK! The action bar is relieved heavily for the bar action. It not only is relieved for the nose of the side lock plate, but the spring behand it, as well as the cocking levers, and sliding Purdy locking bar. The box lock has only the cuts for the cocking levers,and the slideing bar for engageing the bites in the lumps lock in the bars, the tumblers, sears, and springs are in the back of the action. If you look at the side of the A&D boxlock action from the side, you will see two pins at the back of the action , near the wood, and below the thickest part of the action below the fences (standing breach). For this reason the bar can be made shorter, to reduce the leverage between the henge pin, and the face, to apply leverage to bend the bar down. The longer the bar is from face to henge pin,the thicker it has to be, and the more need for a third fastener such as a well fitted doll's head, to retard forward movement, or opening of the action, by bending of the bar. The bar of the A&D boxlock, has far less steel removed from the bar, than the Bar Action side lock. Additionally, both types of sidelocks ( bar action, and Back action) require the removal of a lot of wood, in the weakest part of the stock, in the wrist. The wood is far more likely to fail than the action it's self. The main reason the side lock is considered to be stronger, by most people, is because they cost more to make,and so they are always the more expensive rifle of a maker. Check out the link below! Scroll down to "ACTION"

http://hallowellco.com/abbrevia.htm

--------------------
..........Mac >>>===(x)===>
DUGABOY1, and MacD37 founding member of DRSS www.doublerifleshooterssociety.com
"If I die today, I have had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"


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4seventy
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Reged: 07/05/03
Posts: 2210
Loc: Queensland Australia
Re: Why Are Boxlock Action Bars Shorter? [Re: DUGABOY1]
      #13654 - 18/04/04 07:39 AM

In reply to:

The box lock has only the cuts for the cocking levers,and the slideing bar for engageing the bites in the lumps lock in the bars, the tumblers, sears, and springs are in the back of the action.




That's a new one on me!
All the boxlocks that I've had anything to do with have the mainsprings fitted directly under the action flats or water table.
They are housed right at the top part of the "box".
As such, metal has been removed from the bar to accommodate them.


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DUGABOY1
.400 member


Reged: 02/02/03
Posts: 1340
Loc: TEXAS USA
Re: Why Are Boxlock Action Bars Shorter? [Re: 4seventy]
      #13670 - 18/04/04 10:45 PM

In reply to:

That's a new one on me!
All the boxlocks that I've had anything to do with have the mainsprings fitted directly under the action flats or water table.
They are housed right at the top part of the "box".
As such, metal has been removed from the bar to accommodate them.




4seventy,

You are absolutely correct,of course, and that was left out, unfortunelty, in my discription. However, the amount of steel removed, from the bar of the A&D Boxlock action,except in the DROP LOCK, is not as much as that of the bar action sidelock, and is the reason the bar can be shorter, and thinner, than the Barlock action. The drop lock action is similar to the Blitz action, but requires more steel be removed, where the blitz requires more wood be removed.

The back action is much stronger than the barlock action, but in My opinion, the well made box lock double rifle is stronger, over all, than any sidelock! That is converse to the origenal poster's assumption, that the barlock action was the strongest of the side locks, and much stronger than an equally well made boxlock. I simply disagree!

Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against a fine sidlock double , I own several,both rifles, and shotguns, I just think a well made box lock is less prone to breakage! Either type will stay on face, and outlast it's owner, if it is cared for properly, and the cartridges loaded in it, are not over loaded! Anything can be destroyed, if enough effort is applied! I know some people who could destroy an anvil with a rubber hammer!

To add one more thing, the weakest of all, is the Blitz action. The bar is not as effected, but the stock is heavily relieved to accommodate the trigger plate locks, thus weakening the whole rifle, as a unit, considerably.

--------------------
..........Mac >>>===(x)===>
DUGABOY1, and MacD37 founding member of DRSS www.doublerifleshooterssociety.com
"If I die today, I have had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"


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