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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Big Bore Rifles

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vegard_dino
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Reged: 05/03/09
Posts: 262
Loc: From Norway, but living in Swi...

Germans big bore..11.2* 60 and 11.2*72
#132437 - 16/04/09 06:36 AM

Hi all

I am seeking some information on the medium big bore´s from Germany. The 11.2*60 and it´s more powerful brother, 11.2*72.

I know the more powerful was also named .444 Schueler.

But, are there some here who use them today? Or have done it?

How is it to find brass today and load for them? Kind of bringing them back to life.

I know that the 11.2*72 was/is the same as the .416 Rigby, but why is it not more used today? With good bullet´s, I am sure it is a great Buff caliber today to.

Not so sure about the 11.2*60 for Buff, but for smaller deer or plains game in Africa.

The idea of a mauser in one of these "lost" calibers, is something I find very interesting.

All help and information is good.

--------------------
Cheers all, Vegard_dino

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bpesteve
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Reged: 18/11/03
Posts: 106
Loc: Sunset side up

Re: Germans big bore..11.2* 60 and 11.2*72 [Re: vegard_dino]
#132459 - 16/04/09 08:58 AM

Brass (Bertram) and bullets (Woodleigh) are both available for the 11,2x72 and it's a powerful round with a 400 grain .440" bullet at 2400+ fps; it just never caught on.

On the other hand John Taylor, in "African Rifles and Cartridges", made it very clear that the shorter round, the 11,2x60, was no good for Africa, here's a quote from the book:

"The .440 (11.2mm) Mauser is so generally useless that I'm going to dismiss it at once."

I can see his point for Africa as a .440" 330 grain bullet at 2200 fps might not prove too useful for large or dangerous game, but I've always thought it would be a lot of fun for non-dangerous game at moderate ranges. It's a rimless, smokeless powder version of the 1871 black powder 11,15x60R Mauser military cartridge. No simple solution for brass or bullets like the above 72mm version, but a person could make brass by turning the rims off .43 Mauser cases. A nice original Sauer or Oberndorf '98 sporter set up for 11,2x60 would be very cool.

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pinotguy
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Reged: 03/02/07
Posts: 57
Loc: CO

Re: Germans big bore..11.2* 60 and 11.2*72 [Re: bpesteve]
#132493 - 16/04/09 12:04 PM

I've always been interested in the larger of these two cases - 11.2 x 72 Schuler. I agree that with modern bullets and powders, this would make an excellent DG rifle.

In my mind, there are a couple of things that made this cartridge less popular among African hunters in the early 20th century. First, I think the original bullets developed for this cartridge were too light and were not constructed well enough for large, dangerous game. A modern, bonded, semi-spitzer bullet, like a North Fork or Swift A-Frame, (at around 425-450 grains) would make this a tremendous cartridge. Sadly, I don't see a bullet like this being made available any time soon. The Woodleigh offering is well made but it is designed to replicate the original 401-gr. Round Tip.

I also wonder if the severely rebated rim gave some folks pause. I may be completely incorrect on this, but I have read and heard that cases with rebated rims can sometimes pose issues with feeding and extraction.

Trying to make a rifle chambered in either of these cartridges today would be possible but fairly difficult. The main problem would be finding a barrel with the correct bore and groove diameters. The tooling costs would be considerable which would deter a lot of people but still doable.

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Huvius
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Reged: 04/11/07
Posts: 3602
Loc: Colorado

Re: Germans big bore..11.2* 60 and 11.2*72 [Re: vegard_dino]
#132505 - 16/04/09 01:56 PM

Quote:

I know that the 11.2*72 was/is the same as the .416 Rigby, but why is it not more used today?

There is a marked difference between the two.
11.2 on left / .416 on right

The 11.2 is a very powerful round but I think its demise had more to do with the bullets offered in it's day.
The .416 has a better sectional density and was offered by more makers than the 11.2.
That said, with a good bullet the 11.2 is capable of taking any game animal on earth.
As for the rebated rim, you can see it certainly is, but not any more than a .425 Westley.

--------------------
He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.

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vegard_dino
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Reged: 05/03/09
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Re: Germans big bore..11.2* 60 and 11.2*72 [Re: bpesteve]
#132515 - 16/04/09 04:57 PM

Hi
Thanks for replying.
Ok, Bertram for brass. Good. That makes things a easy.
A 400 gr .440" at 2400 fps is hard hitting thing. I am sure it will be a great Africa, Australia caliber today.
Just to bad, that it is "lost", all seem to think, talk about the 416 Rigby and so.

And as you say, the short 11.2, with its 330 gr bullet, is not a Bff caliber, but...I am sure it will be a great der, elk, moose and plains game caliber today. With good bullets and short range.

The 11.2*60 is very interesting, to have a rifle made, or to find a old one. But, the brass, hmm.
Maybe someone will start making it...We just have to hope.

Thanks for replying and helping me

--------------------
Cheers all, Vegard_dino

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vegard_dino
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Reged: 05/03/09
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Re: Germans big bore..11.2* 60 and 11.2*72 [Re: Huvius]
#132516 - 16/04/09 05:04 PM

Hello and thank you all for the reply´s

Well, yes, the rebated rim may be it, that made the 11.2*72 not so popular. But, the 425WR is not THAT....

I am sure that a good gun maker will make a rebated rim case work just fine. Maybe it has to do with low quality made rifles and as is also pointed out, the bad bullets the Germans used in the 11.2*72 back then.

An original mauser in 11.2*72, will be a nice rifle to take to Africa

Thanks for helping me learn more about the calibers of Germany

--------------------
Cheers all, Vegard_dino

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Huvius
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Re: Germans big bore..11.2* 60 and 11.2*72 [Re: vegard_dino]
#132539 - 16/04/09 10:58 PM

http://www.gunsinternational.com/SCHULER...un_id=100071846

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vegard_dino
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Reged: 05/03/09
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Loc: From Norway, but living in Swi...

Re: Germans big bore..11.2* 60 and 11.2*72 [Re: Huvius]
#132541 - 16/04/09 11:01 PM

Hi

THANK YOU!

What a nice gun. Will send them a mail and find out if they do export and so one.

Just a pretty gun, that needs to get back on the shooting range and out in the field.

--------------------
Cheers all, Vegard_dino

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Rolf
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Reged: 26/02/07
Posts: 412
Loc: Germany, Bavaria

Re: Germans big bore..11.2* 60 and 11.2*72 [Re: vegard_dino]
#132559 - 17/04/09 02:54 AM

Hello Vegard_Dino,

last year I bought from Harald Wolf Mastergunworks (Belgium) his newly manufactured 11,2x72.

Reloading is easy, I avoid Bertram brass like the plague for price and dimensions.
I shoot Woodleigh 400grs SPRN and Degol FMJ and SPRN, all with good precision.

I am living near Munich, if you happen to come to Bavaria, be invited to shoot the rifle.
You won´t be disappointed!

best regards
Rolf

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vegard_dino
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Reged: 05/03/09
Posts: 262
Loc: From Norway, but living in Swi...

Re: Germans big bore..11.2* 60 and 11.2*72 [Re: Rolf]
#132566 - 17/04/09 04:25 AM

Hello Rolf

Oh, then you got a nice gun!

What action did he make it one? Got a photo of it?

Have you done any hunting with it?

Oh, yes, when I come to Bavaria, I love to try the rifle!

Thanks

--------------------
Cheers all, Vegard_dino

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