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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Big Bore Rifles
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grandveneur
.400 member


Reged: 21/09/08
Posts: 1356
Loc: France / Germany
use enough gun
      #130929 - 31/03/09 02:23 AM

Is there no advantage to use very big bore cartridge's for purpose's that smaller cartridge's can may be do ? The same rifle, price and weight identical, no problem to get ammunition, same purpose, you take the big one or the small one ?

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xausa
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Reged: 07/03/07
Posts: 2037
Loc: Tennessee, USA
Re: use enough gun [Re: grandveneur]
      #130943 - 31/03/09 04:45 AM

For thin skinned game, I would incline to the smaller caliber, assuming shots were to be taken in the open with little liklihood of intervening underbrush. 6.5 mm is a favorite of mine, and incidentally the minimum caliber for wild boar in some European countries. The .256 Newton, although long discontinued from production, lives on in cartridges like the 6.5 Remington Magnum, the 6.5-.284 and the 6.5-'06, plus the intriguing 6.5X64 Brenneke and 6.5X65 RWS.

For thick shinned game I would go in the opposite direction. Where the use of full jacketed bullets is concerned, I prefer the largest diameter bullet the shooter can comfortably and capably shoot.
This is why virtually all my thick skinned trophies were taken with caliber.500-.505". I feel that this caliber combines sufficient bullet weight with sufficient penetration without the risk of expending terminal energy on thin air, as a result of a bullet which exits the animal.

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ozhunter
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Reged: 18/08/04
Posts: 1692
Loc: Sydney, Australia
Re: use enough gun [Re: xausa]
      #130986 - 31/03/09 09:26 PM

"USE ENOUGH GUN"
But not too much gun.
Ask any PH if most most clients using "Super Magnums" can shoot well.

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Ripp
.577 member


Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA
Re: use enough gun [Re: ozhunter]
      #131008 - 01/04/09 12:55 AM

Quote:

"USE ENOUGH GUN"
But not too much gun.
Ask any PH if most most clients using "Super Magnums" can shoot well.



Ah, the answer to that one would be a resounding "NO"...

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

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grandveneur
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Reged: 21/09/08
Posts: 1356
Loc: France / Germany
Re: use enough gun [Re: ozhunter]
      #131015 - 01/04/09 01:29 AM

Quote:

"USE ENOUGH GUN"
But not too much gun.
Ask any PH if most most clients using "Super Magnums" can shoot well.

Too much hunter's are recoil-shy!

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bigmaxx
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Reged: 13/06/07
Posts: 660
Loc: Bowling Green KY U.S.A.
Re: use enough gun [Re: Ripp]
      #131017 - 01/04/09 01:44 AM

I bought a Ruger M77 in .458 lott with the intentions of hunting dangerous game. I had to do quite a bit of shooting and reloading to develope an acceptable level of accuracy. Once I had accomplished this I had no doubt I had made a wise decision. A decision that would pay off in Zimbabwe hunting a big bull hippo on an island in the Zambezi. We had leopard crawled through a stand of reeds to within 15 yards of this hippo. My PH, a shona fellow named Magara who spoke very little english communicated that I should stand up and shoot. When I stood up the bull was immediately in the crosshairs of my low powered scope. The instant he saw me he lowered his head and began to move towards us. Having misjudged the moment of the head drop, I fired and shot above the brain, but sent the 500 grain solid down forty inches of the hippo's spine. He dropped to the mud and never moved. An insurance shot was delivered to the side brain. Blood gushed from his nostrils for several minutes. Professional Hunter Gary Fraser and Magara both agreed the using enough gun had likey prevented a nasty situation. I believe using heavy calibers with the proper bullet is essential. It's important to remember that alot of peoples safety depends on the clients ability to stop dangerous game. I think most anybody can learn to shoot big guns well if they commit to it. I did some physical conditioning and lots of shooting. I also bought a Boyt Safari vest with a little padding in the recoil area that helped. Good luck and good hunting.

--------------------
One day at a time...

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27663
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: use enough gun [Re: Ripp]
      #131022 - 01/04/09 02:04 AM

Quote:

Quote:

"USE ENOUGH GUN"
But not too much gun.
Ask any PH if most most clients using "Super Magnums" can shoot well.



Ah, the answer to that one would be a resounding "NO"...



Here's one guide who has rarely seen a hunter who could shoot well with an '06, let alone the new .300 Ultramag he just bought because he thought he needed the 'longer range' provided by higher velocity.

There is the odd hunter shows up who can really shoot - couple very nice chaps from England - excellent shots - .300 WTBY and an '06 and another fellow from Yugoslavia - 9.3x62, sighted for 200 yard zero with 286gr. Norma RN's, killed his griz with a frontal at 25 yards - 2 fellows from Idaho & Washington State - .338WM Rugers both excellent shot - well, that's about it out of about 150 clients I've personally seen shoot. HA!

No, it's not a laughing matter. Quite sickening, actually - which is why I like a big heavy bullet for backup. Relied upon my .458 2" for years, 400gr. @ 2,200fps and 515's at 1,850fps, then another .458 2", same ballistics, a 9.3x62 with 286's at 2,519fps & 270's at 2.675fps, now a .375 H&H Weather Warrior, 300gr. Interbonds @ 2,500 and 300gr. TSX same speed - both will work just fine for finishers.

Definitely use enough gun, but please, make sure you can shoot it, practise is necessary, and I don't mean one or two boxes of factory ammo. Anyone who shoots only factory ammo, if not independently wealthy AND willing to shoot a lot, cannot become a good shot with any rifle, let along a big one - I am convinced of that, at least I've never seen it in 30 years of guiding.

Kind of a negative post, but there ya go.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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grandveneur
.400 member


Reged: 21/09/08
Posts: 1356
Loc: France / Germany
Re: use enough gun [Re: DarylS]
      #131030 - 01/04/09 03:02 AM

Is recoil the reason for the use of smaller caliber's, especially the use of a "small" cartridge like the 375H&H for buffalo or elefant hunting ? If you are recoil-shy, you cannot shot accurate big bore rifle's !

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27663
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: use enough gun [Re: grandveneur]
      #131032 - 01/04/09 03:22 AM

A .375 is a hunting ctg., not a stopping ctg. There is no elephant or buffalo which cannot be killed cleanly with a .375. The PH needs a stopping ctg. because most hunters cannot even shoot a hunting ctg. accurately. There are two reasons. Flinching and lack of skill. They are connected.

Fear of being hurt is one reason people flinch - fear of loud noises is another. Overcome fear - whatever it's cause and then and only then can learning to shoot accurately, commense.

Accurate shooting can only come from not flinching and a LOT of practise shooting from hunting positions. Most people only shoot off a bench - they don't practise from hunting positions and when called upon to do so, they miss or wound game. They may be able to shoot 1/2" groups with that .375H&H off the bench, BUT they can't hit the spot they need to when hunting because they lack the necessary skill to shoot from hunting positions.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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peter
removed


Reged: 11/04/07
Posts: 1493
Loc: denmark
Re: use enough gun [Re: DarylS]
      #131034 - 01/04/09 03:40 AM

but daryl

when shooting from the back of the pick up it is almost like sitting at the bench !!!

peter

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JabaliHunter
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Reged: 16/05/07
Posts: 1958
Loc: England
Re: use enough gun [Re: peter]
      #131044 - 01/04/09 04:46 AM

I have no problem with the big guns as long as you can hit a tennis ball off-hand at 75 yards.
Better still shoot a full magazine into a tennis ball sized hole at 50 yards off-hand in quick succession.
Actually that applies to little guns too!

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27663
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: use enough gun [Re: peter]
      #131069 - 01/04/09 10:51 AM

Quote:

but daryl

when shooting from the back of the pick up it is almost like sitting at the bench !!!

peter



Are we big game hunting or gopehr shooting, Peter?

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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peter
removed


Reged: 11/04/07
Posts: 1493
Loc: denmark
Re: use enough gun [Re: DarylS]
      #131108 - 01/04/09 06:17 PM

Quote:

Quote:

but daryl

when shooting from the back of the pick up it is almost like sitting at the bench !!!

peter



Are we big game hunting or gopehr shooting, Peter?



i think it depends on which country and who is telling the story

peter

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27663
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: use enough gun [Re: peter]
      #131142 - 02/04/09 01:05 AM

I did manage to shoot the ball of my buddy's Pickup's antenna. Sand bags on the roof - .17 centrefire's a-blazing. Gopher parts flying - great sport, old Chap.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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