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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Double Rifles

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EthanCord
.224 member


Reged: 02/07/08
Posts: 4
Loc: So. California, USA
Looking for Robert Schuler double rifle info (pictures added
      #110236 - 23/07/08 06:32 AM

I have a double rifle that was made in 1929 according to the proof marks. It has Krupp Steel markings but the only thing I see that could possibly be a makers mark is the name Robert Schuler on the upper barrel. This rifle is chambered in 9,3 X 74R. It has a quick release scope mounting system and the front trigger is single set. I believe it is a German made firearm. I know that this is not much information, but I am hoping someone can point me in the right direction!

Thanks!!

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b63/reddykw/001.jpg

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b63/reddykw/002.jpg

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b63/reddykw/003.jpg

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b63/reddykw/004.jpg

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b63/reddykw/005.jpg

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b63/reddykw/006.jpg

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b63/reddykw/007.jpg

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b63/reddykw/008.jpg

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b63/reddykw/009.jpg

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b63/reddykw/010.jpg

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b63/reddykw/011.jpg

Edited by EthanCord (23/07/08 09:45 PM)


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peter
removed


Reged: 11/04/07
Posts: 1493
Loc: denmark
Re: Looking for Robert Schuller double rifle info [Re: EthanCord]
      #110238 - 23/07/08 06:42 AM

hi ethan and welcome to nitroexpress.

we got several clever people here, but you got to give them something to work with. pictures is worth a thousand words.

best regards

peter


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EthanCord
.224 member


Reged: 02/07/08
Posts: 4
Loc: So. California, USA
Re: Looking for Robert Schuller double rifle info [Re: peter]
      #110239 - 23/07/08 06:45 AM

You are correct of course! I'll post some photos this evening when I get home.

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dale
.333 member


Reged: 28/02/06
Posts: 341
Loc: logan W.V.
Re: Looking for Robert Schuller double rifle info [Re: EthanCord]
      #110343 - 24/07/08 02:00 PM

Hi Ethan,

Beautiful gun. I found 11 Schueler working in Suhl but no Robert Schuler. I'm not sure but I believe Koln was a city near Suhl.


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tinker
.416 member


Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada
Re: Looking for Robert Schuller double rifle info [Re: dale]
      #110346 - 24/07/08 02:29 PM

Ethan-

Welcome to the site.
Great looking rifle too.
Are you perfectly sure that the rear trigger is not a single set trigger, but adjusted 'out' and with the screw replaced with a headless pin? One of those images appears to me to show a blacked pin on the rear trigger.

The reason I ask is that there's a German clam shell action 9.3 SxS that I have the opportunity to handle and care for, as well as shoot quite a bit. It has set triggers front and rear, although I have not fired it with either triger set.
I have tested and adjusted them, but have not felt the need to fire the rifle with the set triggers.
I know of someone who has though, and he foolishly did this the very first time he fired the rifle, also the first time he ever fired a 9.3x74 - or any double rifle for that matter.
He strummed both triggers and doubled the rifle.
Didn't hurt himself or the rifle, but that was all he wanted with it, hasn't picked it up since.

Also, you might want to get that little hairline crack at the left head of the stock checked by someone with the right goods for the job.
It'd be a shame to have that take off and cause more damage than it should.

As I often hear said on these nice European rifles, you should judge the rifle, not the name on the rib.
Many of these now seemingly obscure German, Austrian, Belgian, etc guns and rifles are perfectly on par in terms of fit and finish, materials, and function as some of the top London product.
That's one very nice looking rifle!
It's loaded with special features, scalloped action, cocking indicators, that ultra strong locking system, very nice sights, the QD scope and mounts, ejectors, cool features with the wood, very nice engraving...

Have you hunted with it yet?



--Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...


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kamilaroi
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Reged: 18/12/04
Posts: 1803
Loc: sydney, new south wales, Austr...
Re: Looking for Robert Schuller double rifle info [Re: dale]
      #110347 - 24/07/08 04:37 PM

Quote:

Hi Ethan,

Beautiful gun. I found 11 Schueler working in Suhl but no Robert Schuler. I'm not sure but I believe Koln was a city near Suhl.




"Cologne" in Ingrish.


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EthanCord
.224 member


Reged: 02/07/08
Posts: 4
Loc: So. California, USA
Re: Looking for Robert Schuller double rifle info [Re: kamilaroi]
      #110367 - 25/07/08 12:12 AM

Thank you all for your comments! This is my first double rifle and I have a lot to learn about it and double rifles in general.

Tinker, I will attempt to answer a couple of your questions. I am not sure if the rear trigger is a single set, however both triggers do have the adjustment screws. I have some experiance shooting with set triggers on muzzle loading rifles (double set) and old Winchesters (single set) but have never thought about the possibility of two single set triggers. I will check into this when I get home.

I have fired the rifle with the trigger set and not set. My first shotgun was an old hammered side by side with two triggers. I went dove hunting with it and inadvertantly experianced the result of placing fingers on both triggers! Not fun! It would be brutal with the 9.3 x 74R I suspect.

I will start looking for a craftsman who can make the proper repair to the crack you mention. Does anyone have any suggestions?

I have not hunted with this rifle yet. I plan to spend some more time learning about it and becoming more proficient with it first. Once I have accomplished this I would like to take it on a pig hunt up in the Paso Robles area. After that who knows? I have not hunted outside of the United States yet but would like to. Again there would be another huge learning curve. The adventure has just begun with this new rifle and I have to say I am excited!

Thanks again!


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tinker
.416 member


Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada
Re: Looking for Robert Schuller double rifle info [Re: EthanCord]
      #110372 - 25/07/08 06:42 AM

Ethan-

For hunting in the Paso Robles area, look first to see if the area you'll be hunting is a 'lead free zone'

Loading for a double rifle is special business. Your goal is to get one load that performs in such a manner that both barrels print groups that run 'in paralell' with each other's trajectory when shot from field hunting positions.
'Lead Sled' and heavily sandbagged bench positions won't get you results that will work for actually using the rifle, also many double rifles and big bore bolt guns have had their stocks ruined in the 'Lead Sled'

Also, you'll find that your rifle wants to run ammunition of a certain type -- you won't likely end up with 'light varmint' and 'plinker' loads that hit together and/or to the sights on your rifle.

Furthermore, it's strongly noted all around the world of those with experience with the double rifle that monolithic solid bullets (like the Barnes X or A-Square solids) are a big No-No. Barnes will tell you otherwise, but trust the years of experience of owners and builders who have either ruined their double rifles or have had to repair and re-barrel double rifles due to the use of mono-solids.
Spend a little time looking around this site for discussions on loading for the 9.3x74r and see what's worked for others.
You'll find a lot of good information here.
There are a couple of specially made mono solids out there that are designed and built to account for this issue, but they're expensive, and they're made in small quantities.
I think that one of these bullet makers has recently gone out of business due to metal prices and supply chain issues.
So, if you're planning a hunt in the belly of the state's coastal region do your homework on what ammunition is legal first, then evaluate your path from there.


Not much like loading for a bolt or single shot rifle!


On your stock repair, I don't have a stockmaker to refer you to down there in Southern California.
Many folks from around the States send their rifles to JJ Perodeau at Champlin Firearms in Oaklahoma.
He is one of the most highly qualified double rifle mechanics in the US and is actually a fully credentialed Gunbuilder from European Guild training and trade.
He can make you anything you need, lock stock and barrel.
His rates are fair and his work consistently comes with the highest praise.

Give him a call and ask about price and turnaround time.


--Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...


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EthanCord
.224 member


Reged: 02/07/08
Posts: 4
Loc: So. California, USA
Re: Looking for Robert Schuller double rifle info [Re: tinker]
      #110377 - 25/07/08 09:50 AM

Tinker,

The rear trigger is also a single set as you suspected. Thanks again for the helpful information. I will avoid the solids as you suggest. I have a supply of Norma ammunition that came with the rifle. I will take it to the range in a couple of weeks to get an idea of POI from each barrel with this factory ammo and then go from there.

I have hunted elk and deer for years with a Ruger M77 chambered in .300 Win Mag,using Nosler 200 grain partions for elk and 165 grain bullets for deer. I sight this rifle in from the bench with the forend resting on a sandbag and the buttstock planted firmly against my shoulder. Would you think this method would work with my DR or will resting on a sandbag or using shooting sticks change the POI from the bullets substantially?

Regards,

Ethan


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tinker
.416 member


Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada
Re: Looking for Robert Schuller double rifle info [Re: EthanCord]
      #110378 - 25/07/08 10:27 AM

Ethan-

You're totally welcome, and I'll push the recommendation to get active here on sorting yourself out with that rifle and sorting the rifle out for work.
Load for it, and get your loading bench and technique tuned for this neat new cruise you're embarking on.

I'm guessing that the screw on that rear trigger's had it's head cropped off at the request of a previous owner, finished and blacked to it's current appearance. It doesn't look to simply have had it's head broken off. You'll see them capstan-headed too, instead of slotted. It's easier to get in there with a capstan pin than it is to get a screwdriver in there without buggering the screw head or the trigger guard (or both)

Remember, I did note that there are solids that are designed specifically for double rifles -- I've never run them myself, but there are some here who have.
You'll need to slug your bores (from both ends) with pure soft oversize roundball and a leather or wood mallet and dowel to get your exact bore/groove measurements before you consider going that route.

G S Custom Bullets is one of the bullet manufacturers I speak of. Start a thread asking about handloading for your new 9.3x74R here and ask about them. I don't know enough about them to say 'go'

On working at the shooting bench, all the shooting I'd done with my 8x60r and with the 9.3mm rifle (and others like it) I noted above was done standing, with a support side toe and elbow against one of the support posts of the shooting bench.
I do fairly well shooting a rifle offhand, and that's worked out well with those rifles.
A common approach for supported, seated shooting at a bench is to sit straight up assuming upper body posture that resembles your standing posture while in a hunting field position, and for rest, have a sandbag that's supported at the right height to give the back or heel of your support hand a rest, that support hand around the barrels (often ahead of the forend for most guys) at the firing of the rifle.
That tends to effect the rifle the least and it shows results on paper very similar if not the same to your results in field positions.
That's the method I've taken to get some of my other rifles running with 'regulation' loads.

The load that your rifle shoots most accurately, near or at the 'factory ammunition velocity', with both barrel's groups flying with parallel trajectories (essentially superimposed groups-it'll look like a one-barrel gun group) is your 'regulation load'
The process by which the gunbuilder took to get the gun to shoot such a load is known as 'regulation' or 'regulating the rifle'

Do all of your shooting over a chronograph.
Know what that factory ammunition is doing out of the muzzle of your rifle. If it shoots well, you're there already and have a base line to work with in the future for your handloaded ammunition.
I have learned to take a rifle that runs cheap ammunition at a consistent velocity to the range or ranch with me whenever I shoot the double rifles. This gives me a base to start with for the chronograph - and lets me know if it's even going to work that day, without using up valuable double rifle ammunition or double rifle barrel time.


Have fun with it too!
It looks like a really sweet piece, I bet it handles very nicely in the hands.



--Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...


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ducota
.275 member


Reged: 27/04/07
Posts: 75
Loc: Portugal
Re: Looking for Robert Schuller double rifle info [Re: tinker]
      #110417 - 26/07/08 01:51 AM

Lovely toy no mather whose maker.
I hope you will have plenty of opportunities to enjoy shooting it.
I reload for my 9,3X74R FN but as I use Europea stuff there is not interesting info to share.


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Marrakai
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Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 3672
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia
Re: Looking for Robert Schuller double rifle info [Re: ducota]
      #110582 - 28/07/08 01:01 PM

That breech bolting system with the double cross-bolt was featured on a rifle in the Double Gun Journal a few years back, can't remember the issue but it also had an article on Kaiser Wilhelm's double IIRC. I'll have a look when I get home this evening if this doesn't prompt someone sooner.

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au


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nhdblfan
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Reged: 31/08/07
Posts: 102
Loc: NH
Re: Looking for Robert Schuller double rifle info [Re: Marrakai]
      #111933 - 16/08/08 08:55 AM

Robert Schuler also made shotguns,I am pretty sure they made them for Daly as I have a 16 that a pretty knowledgeable source could well be a Suhler.

here is a Shuler 16 offered for sale;

http://www.bobjonesguns.com/details.asp?id=4318S


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