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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Big Bore Rifles
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Shackleton
.300 member


Reged: 11/08/07
Posts: 203
Loc: Iowa
.45-70 ?--Is this as dumb as it sounds?
      #108014 - 24/06/08 02:25 PM

I was talking about shooting .45-70 and good-naturedly complaining about the price of ammo($45/box locally, reloads run me about $4.65/box). A co-worker said just use .45 Colt. Is this even feasible, feasible? It sounds suicidal to me-considering some .410 shotguns can fire .45 Colt I test-chambered a .410 round-far too loose to consider firing, as I suspected. Just wondering if anyone else has heard this particular piece of gunshow "wisdom".

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"I do not kill with my gun, he who kills with his gun has forgotten the face of his father. I kill with my heart."--Stephen King

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shinz
.300 member


Reged: 11/05/08
Posts: 135
Loc: New Zealand
Re: .45-70 ?--Is this as dumb as it sounds? [Re: Shackleton]
      #108021 - 24/06/08 03:21 PM

Yes, I reckon it is all of that. According to my Hodgdon reloading ,manual,the 45-70 has .608 rim & .505 base, 45 Colt has .512 Rim & .480 base. With a bit of leeway from tolerances, ie min dimension Colt cases & sloppy 45-70 chamber the Colt would nearly disappear into the 45-70 chamber, assuming that the Colt case was held by its rim, you would at the least get massive case bulging if not slitting & hot gases spraying around all sorts of places they weren't meant to.
Steve

Edited by shinz (24/06/08 03:27 PM)

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27535
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: .45-70 ?--Is this as dumb as it sounds? [Re: shinz]
      #108054 - 25/06/08 12:48 AM

It is advisable not to shoot .45 Colt ammo in a .45/70. Steve has the measurements. Most .45 Colt ammo is about .476 to .478", while the chamber of most .45/70's is .508" to .510"(sometimes more). So, we can have more than .030" (almost 1/32") smaller cae being fired. A heavy .45 colt load would surely burst, while light gallery type loads would expand radically. There is no reason to shoot .45 Colt ammo from a .45/70. If you want a light load, develope one using .45 Colt bullets - I did.
: Using .452", 230 or 225gr. swaged Speer bullets and 15gr. of AL8 pistol powder, I achieved a velocity of 1,320fps and 3" accuracy at 100 meters. At 25 yards they printed on the heavy plex of the 2X scope (making 3/8" groups on centres) while the cross hairs were zero'd for my heavy hunting load. I shot 34 grouse one fall with this 'light' load, taking their heads off cleanly. Many other powders will work as well. Alcan's AL8 may not even be in print now, but Unique, Trail Boss and others are. Trail Boss might be the best of the bunch for loads in the 900fps to 1,300fps range. Use full length .45/70 cases and pistol primers.

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Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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CowboyCS
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Reged: 05/10/07
Posts: 386
Loc: Kansas u.S.A.
Re: .45-70 ?--Is this as dumb as it sounds? [Re: DarylS]
      #108063 - 25/06/08 02:31 AM

I'd add one more reason not to, if you ran the 45LC very much in a 45-70 chamber, aside from the brass problems mentioned by Steve and Daryl, over time I would think you would end up with throat problems in the 45-70 chamber, due to the sloppy fit of the 45LC brass and bullet dia difference and having a long lead(the difference in OAL being almost an inch)getting to the rifling. I could foresee gases getting by the bullet before it ever got to the rifling and just general misalignment from the diameter difference would wear on the 45-70 chamber pretty bad.

C

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The Bill of Rights- Void were prohibited by law
Stolzer & Son's Gunsmithing

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27535
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: .45-70 ?--Is this as dumb as it sounds? [Re: CowboyCS]
      #108084 - 25/06/08 08:52 AM

Another problem would be with jacket material, be it lead of guilding metal tearing off the bullets when they hit the nasty little shoulder at the end of the chamber. This would build up with only a few shots and most likely have to be removed with a proper reamer due to the sharpness of the shoduler's edge at the end of the case. The material would almost weld itself in there.

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Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Shackleton
.300 member


Reged: 11/08/07
Posts: 203
Loc: Iowa
Re: .45-70 ?--Is this as dumb as it sounds? [Re: DarylS]
      #108086 - 25/06/08 09:34 AM

I tried telling the person some of these reasons at the time(couple months ago,don't remember for sure who it was now), all I remember was he's one who won't listen. All he'd say was "XXXX does it all the time in his gun". My response was to tell him I was glad I don't share the range with the guy-and how glad I was that he's not shooting my rifle. It's almost funny what some people will try.

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"I do not kill with my gun, he who kills with his gun has forgotten the face of his father. I kill with my heart."--Stephen King

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szihn
.400 member


Reged: 24/06/07
Posts: 2121
Loc: United States
Re: .45-70 ?--Is this as dumb as it sounds? [Re: Shackleton]
      #108099 - 25/06/08 12:33 PM

Shackleton, if you want to shoot a 45-70 on a budget, try 16 gr. of Unique with a 400-425 gr lead bullet. You will be amazed at how well this works, and in most rifles with good bores, it also very accurate. It give about 1250 FPS + or -, depending on barrel length.
Now a pound of unique would get 437 shots at 16 grains. At $21 a pound you'd have 4.8 cents in the powder per shot. If you cast your own bullets you can shoot pretty cheap. 4.8 cents for powder and 3 cents for a primer. If you can scrounge lead the bullets will be almost free. You do have to lube them, but that's so cheap that i bet there's not a penny per bullet. If you had to pay 40 cents a pound for lead you still get 17 shots per pound so that comes out to 2.4 cents per bullet.
Brass will last at least 15 shots if your chaber is good, and if you don't over bell or over crimp.
Steve

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bigmaxx
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Reged: 13/06/07
Posts: 660
Loc: Bowling Green KY U.S.A.
Re: .45-70 ?--Is this as dumb as it sounds? [Re: szihn]
      #108112 - 25/06/08 01:26 PM

I tried the ALOX lube on my home cast 500 grain bullets and it worked great. Not a big mess either. Shoot great in my siamese mauser at medium velocity.

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One day at a time...

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Shackleton
.300 member


Reged: 11/08/07
Posts: 203
Loc: Iowa
Re: .45-70 ?--Is this as dumb as it sounds? [Re: bigmaxx]
      #108116 - 25/06/08 01:39 PM

I'll definitely give that Unique load a try-I have plenty on hand for some of my handgun loads anyway, as well as all the 405 and 295 grain cast bullets I'm likely to need. The complaining I mentioned in the original post was more about getting started than what I'm paying in reloads, had to get a couple boxes of ammo for the brass, and figured I should have some factory stuff to compare my reloads to. Hoping to get out and shoot again next week, thanks for the load recommendation.

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"I do not kill with my gun, he who kills with his gun has forgotten the face of his father. I kill with my heart."--Stephen King

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Big_Sarge
.224 member


Reged: 26/06/08
Posts: 16
Loc: Mississippi
Re: .45-70 ?--Is this as dumb as it sounds? [Re: Shackleton]
      #108704 - 02/07/08 04:18 AM

I reload using Trail Boss or FFg Black in my trapdoors. I use 300 grain cast for ranges out to 100 yards. For long range, use a 405 or 500 gr cast bullet

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tinker
.416 member


Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada
Re: .45-70 ?--Is this as dumb as it sounds? [Re: Big_Sarge]
      #108706 - 02/07/08 04:35 AM

What's your experience with trail boss in respect to ignition, velocity, and consistency?
Have you chronographed your black vs trail boss loads?

I've heard of the use of trail boss, but very little information specific to it's performance.


--Tinker

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--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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