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Vette447
.275 member

Reged: 15/02/09
Posts: 76
Loc: Oklahoma, USA

M-S Carbine Marked Caliber as "6.4x53-1/2". What the heck?
#384472 - 25/04/24 12:47 PM

I just bought this MS carbine. It is in great original condition with a Voitlander scope and was advertised as a 1903 6.5x54MS. It looks like it is a 1903. However, the only marking visible on the top ring is the "Patent" due to the scope base dovetailed in. The weirdest part is the caliber marking. It appears to be marked as "6.4mm53-1/2". What the heck is that?

All numbers match and it doesn't have many appreciable proofs on the underside of the barrel like others I have seen online.

I planned to get some 6.5x54MS ammo and see if it chambers correctly but thought I would ask the expertise here as well. I can not find a "6.4x53-1/2" mentioned anywhere when I Google it. Do you guys know what this is?

Thank you.

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lancaster
.470 member

Reged: 06/05/08
Posts: 9036
Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...

Re: M-S Carbine Marked Caliber as "6.4x53-1/2". What the heck? [Re: Vette447]
#384475 - 25/04/24 02:55 PM

yep, 6,5x54

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Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
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bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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Rothhammer1
.400 member

Reged: 06/01/17
Posts: 1826
Loc: The Redwoods of California

Re: M-S Carbine Marked Caliber as "6.4x53-1/2". What the heck? [Re: Vette447]
#384478 - 25/04/24 03:54 PM

The proprietary MS cartridges have been marketed by many descriptions throughout the first half of the Twentieth Century.

These were the proprietary cartridges with DWM numbers as listed in the (U.S.) 1939 Stoeger catalog:

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Citizen of the Cherokee Nation

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Rothhammer1
.400 member

Reged: 06/01/17
Posts: 1826
Loc: The Redwoods of California

Re: M-S Carbine Marked Caliber as "6.4x53-1/2". What the heck? [Re: Vette447]
#384479 - 25/04/24 04:05 PM

Quote:

I planned to get some 6.5x54MS ammo and see if it chambers correctly but thought I would ask the expertise here as well.

After you confirm the bore dimensions, Reed's Ammo will make cartridges for you: https://reedsammo.com/ He's a good guy (Oklahoman, as well).

The safest course of action, as you seem to have doubt of chamber / bore dimensions, would be to have a cast made of the chamber. Cerrosafe, a bismuth alloy, may be used to 'slug the bore' 'DIY' or one may engage a gunsmith to perform the task.

Other MS information may be found by searching NitroExpress and / or here: https://www.africahunting.com/threads/ma...velocity.47277/

--------------------
Citizen of the Cherokee Nation

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kuduae
.400 member

Reged: 13/01/10
Posts: 1792
Loc: middle of Germany

Re: M-S Carbine Marked Caliber as "6.4x53-1/2". What the heck? [Re: Rothhammer1]
#384482 - 25/04/24 09:35 PM

These are not factory markings, but the usual set of German proof marks, not directly related to the cartridge designation. Until the 1920s German and Austrian proofs were not respected vice versa. So Austrian guns had to be proofed by a German proofhouse according to German proof rules before sale in Germany. From 1912 up to 1939 the German proofmarks give these Informations: Bore/land diameter (NOT groove or bullet) of the barrel, measured with cylindrical plugs in .1 mm increments. As the minimum bore of 6.5x54 MS barrel is 6.48 mm, a 6.5 mm plug did not pass the barrel, so the 6.4 mm marking is correct . The groove/bullet diameter is 6.7 mm = .264". 53.5 mm is the real length of the “x54” case. The rifle was proofed to use the standard 6.5x54 M-S service load, a 10 gram St.m.G = 154 gr steel jacket bullet. So there is nothing mysterious here, just the contemporary German proofmarks for a 6.5x54 Mannlicher – Schoenauer rifle.

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Vette447
.275 member

Reged: 15/02/09
Posts: 76
Loc: Oklahoma, USA

Re: M-S Carbine Marked Caliber as "6.4x53-1/2". What the heck? [Re: kuduae]
#384484 - 25/04/24 11:49 PM

Thank you all. I suspected that this was a typical 6.5x54 but with German markings that are a bit different. I just couldn’t find this exact markings noted anywhere. It’s a super cool little rifle. Excited to try it out.

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