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TH44
.375 member


Reged: 21/02/09
Posts: 734
Loc: West UK
10 bore DR saga
      #361427 - 02/02/22 07:28 AM

Hi guys, I won this in an auction before Christmas

Made by E M Reilly it is an early DR with non rebounding locks and a clever patent to pull them back
26 inch barrels and exactly 12 lbs it is substantial without being unwieldy

Described as in good condition with old repair to hand see later









Lion and Tiger in the engraving



Sights are 50, 100, 150 and 200 yards, platinum centre line and engraved leaves





a patented cam on the front of the hammers moves the"L" shaped lever to pull back the strikers
Obsolete when rebounding hammers came in





Catastrophe!! when I received it the crack was 1/4" and soon fell apart
My repairer told me it was a complete "bodge up" (Bubba to some guys) probably intended to cach some one out in an internet auction



He put 4 carbon fibre rods in to strengthen it and did a very good job i think
A re-stock in the UK would take forever
As it was a difficult an d sh**ty job he did it over Christmas as every time he looked at it he would "put it back for another day"



Fortunately it gas turned out well, he was very good to repair it

I will be happy to shoot it now, but anyway Black powder loads with Round Ball as a light load?

The auction house paid 75% of the cost

Comments welcome

TH44

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3DogMike
.400 member


Reged: 29/01/15
Posts: 1464
Loc: Western Slope, Colorado USA
Re: 10 bore DR saga [Re: TH44]
      #361432 - 02/02/22 11:19 AM

That original stock repair was a real mess. Bodge’d up conveys it very well in any dialect
You are fortunate to have a fine craftsman/artist to get it sorted out and looking “right”.

If you decide to shoot it maybe a heavy meat cutters glove and a hockey goalie mask for the first couple?
……seriously, I would think those CF rods ought to hold it.
- Mike

--------------------
"Will Rogers never met a fighter pilot"
- Anon

“Always carry a flask of whiskey in case of snakebite, and furthermore always carry a small snake."
-- W. C. Fields

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26994
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: 10 bore DR saga [Re: 3DogMike]
      #361434 - 02/02/22 11:29 AM

I surely is an exquisite rifle.

Hoping for the best, but likely Mike is spot-on in his recommendations.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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260rem
.375 member


Reged: 16/04/06
Posts: 757
Loc: NSW Australia
Re: 10 bore DR saga [Re: DarylS]
      #361436 - 02/02/22 11:52 AM

Beautiful gun, bloody God awful dodgy repair.
Glad to see it fixed up so well in the end, that gun was ment to be shot.

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NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39881
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: 10 bore DR saga [Re: 260rem]
      #361444 - 02/02/22 07:57 PM

Very nice. Which photos are before repair and after? Says something about the repair.

I imagine restocking will cost more. That should be deducted from the auction price.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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93x64mm
.416 member


Reged: 07/12/11
Posts: 4199
Loc: Nth QLD Australia
Re: 10 bore DR saga [Re: NitroX]
      #361448 - 02/02/22 10:27 PM

That is one amazing piece of repair work!
Agree with Mike, whatever you're going to feed this beast those rods will take that & a whole lot more! Wonderful to see an old warrior like this one back on deck again & ready for some action.
When you do get the chance TH44 please add in your loads, it will be great to see what it can still get up to.

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rigbymauser
.400 member


Reged: 15/05/05
Posts: 1972
Loc: Denmark
Re: 10 bore DR saga [Re: 93x64mm]
      #361450 - 03/02/22 01:47 AM

Love rifle.

Good the autioncompany acknowledged and took responsabillity.

Now go shoot😊😊

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NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39881
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: 10 bore DR saga [Re: rigbymauser]
      #361468 - 03/02/22 05:33 PM



If that is an "after" photo? An amazing result. Can't see the crack or break from this angle at all.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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Omnivorous_Bob
.333 member


Reged: 03/10/05
Posts: 286
Loc: Montana
Re: 10 bore DR saga [Re: NitroX]
      #361471 - 03/02/22 07:54 PM

Tony, that is a magnificent repair!

"but anyway Black powder loads with Round Ball as a light load?"

My by far best 10-bore load is a really strange one. My Tolley roundball gun has uneven groove depths and about .003" of choke in the last 3 or so inches of the barrels. I was getting a lot of gas blow by and velocity spread because it seemed no ball diameter would work well and I didn't want to go too big with the choke and laminate barrels. I finally tried a .100"card over the powder (120gn swiss 3F), a 3/8" felt wad lubed on the edges over that, ANOTHER .100" card, then a fiber wad and lube under the ball in a roll crimped plastic case. The cards seemed to sandwich the felt wad to seal the deeper grooves and they shows zero signs of blow by, the holes usually touch at 50 and they are right at Tolley's advertised 1330fps (5 dram 2 5/8"gun). Best of luck and please keep us posted how she shoots.

--------------------
"If we're not supposed to eat animals, how come they're made out of meat?"

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Ahmed577
.333 member


Reged: 13/06/13
Posts: 334
Loc: Western Australia
Re: 10 bore DR saga [Re: Omnivorous_Bob]
      #361483 - 04/02/22 12:48 AM

Owning a 28 bore and 12 bore Holland paradoxes I searched for a 10 bore I could hunt in Australia with. To no avail. Purdey built me a new one. It sits in Queensland waiting for COVID to let me pick up. Buff Banting and Croc live in fear.

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26994
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: 10 bore DR saga [Re: Ahmed577]
      #361490 - 04/02/22 05:12 AM

COOL!
Good load development, Bob. Something (wad design) for the archives in the old melon.
This would most likely work with many different guns & projectiles.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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TH44
.375 member


Reged: 21/02/09
Posts: 734
Loc: West UK
Re: 10 bore DR saga [Re: DarylS]
      #361503 - 04/02/22 12:11 PM

Thanks guys for the positive responses, it is good that there are people who appreciate such artistry

John - yes that is the repaired stock. The guy did very well to get it that good, in hand I cannot see the repair (albeit with old eyes!)

He is expensive and usually takes forever but as it was Christmas he took it on first as noted

Pic No. 6 (from the auction) shows the slight crack noted

Bob - many thanks for your data on your loads, my initial thought was 4 drams - 110 grains 2/3F with my usual filler (if required), a card wad (milk carton) a grease cookie, another card wad then the Round Ball

I only have a couple of brass 10 bore shotgun cases, (I will see if the guy who made my 8 bore cases still does them) but plenty os paper cartridges (nitro) which I could empty and use
IIRC I shot a couple of similar loads in my 10 bore early lightweight Paradox (posted somewhere here) some years ago

A little overgunned for the little roe deer locally but I will get great pleasure just shooting it on the range (my usual range has a limit of .455" 1650fps so need to go further afield)
Such guns/rifle should be shot whenever possible

In the end I am most pleased, if I had shot it or dropped it I would have had to stump up the $1800 ish for the repair

Tony

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Vette447
.275 member


Reged: 15/02/09
Posts: 76
Loc: Oklahoma, USA
Re: 10 bore DR saga [Re: TH44]
      #361793 - 11/02/22 03:01 AM

Congrats on the new rifle and I am glad it worked out. The repairs looks excellent and one would think it should be extremely sturdy with the carbon fiber rods. I recognize the photos so I can guess the auction house. They are very good at wiping everything down with a silicone cloth or oil to make it look to possibly be higher condition that it truly is. That being said, I have purchased several things from them and I am glad that they seemingly worked hard to make it right for you. Enjoy your new double!

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26994
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: 10 bore DR saga [Re: Vette447]
      #361795 - 11/02/22 04:25 AM

Tony, if the gun is designed for brass, the paper will be too thick and not allow a large enough ball - likely. This can be overcome by using a cup wad under the ball that will hold it in the middle of the bore. A fiber wad with the centre drilled or punched out should work when using paper hulls.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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3DogMike
.400 member


Reged: 29/01/15
Posts: 1464
Loc: Western Slope, Colorado USA
Re: 10 bore DR saga [Re: DarylS]
      #361808 - 11/02/22 07:08 AM

TH,
Maybe I missed it, however have you actually measured your 10 bore's barrel groove to groove diameter?
As Daryl has alluded to, the bore diameter will be different for brass case -vs- paper case rifles.
Paper case rifles having a commensurately smaller bore diameter to accommodate balls/conicals that will fit the smaller inside diameter of a paper case. (due paper wall thickness)
As well, determining the twist will give you a hint as to whether it is a "round ball only" rifle or one suitable for round balls and conical bullets.

In any event the old Jeff Tanner company ball moulds are your friend:
https://www.ballmoulds.com

Proper roll crimp of a 10 bore paper case with ball or bullet may require modification of a standard shot shell roll crimp tool.

AFTERTHOUGHT:
TH: It occurs that you maybe already knew all the above, forgive me if I have merely been preaching to the choir.

Your 10 bore will give you hours of enjoyment!

- Mike

--------------------
"Will Rogers never met a fighter pilot"
- Anon

“Always carry a flask of whiskey in case of snakebite, and furthermore always carry a small snake."
-- W. C. Fields

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TH44
.375 member


Reged: 21/02/09
Posts: 734
Loc: West UK
Re: 10 bore DR saga [Re: 3DogMike]
      #361918 - 13/02/22 07:27 AM

Mike - Thanks for the info
I slugged the bore at .775" with .003/.004" grooves (as good as I could get it)

Twist is approx 1 in 30" ish (as far as I can see)





The only 10 bore cases I have are plastic, but my RB mould .775" fits in both!

I assume to use plastic with Black Powder is a no-no? (it is only BP proofed so would not risk nitro loads in it) Daryl?

I will contact Jeff Tanner (he [the father] made some 8 bore stuff some years ago for me) as proper brass cases the way to go, unless I can get some suitable cardboard ones

Thanks again guys

Tony

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93x64mm
.416 member


Reged: 07/12/11
Posts: 4199
Loc: Nth QLD Australia
Re: 10 bore DR saga [Re: TH44]
      #361919 - 13/02/22 07:58 AM

Now that IS impressive TH44!
I hope you can score some brass cases - they look a lot more the real deal!

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26994
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: 10 bore DR saga [Re: 93x64mm]
      #361936 - 13/02/22 01:09 PM

Jeff's son is operating the business now as Jeff has passed.
In the picture the rifling appears to be slightly more than .004" however, that is really not that important.
Your round ball, however, should be groove diameter, not bore diameter, if used with normal card wads.
A bore diameter ball or even one smaller can be fired accurately, as long as the wad is groove dia. The wad, if cupped, will hold the ball in the middle of the bore and give it rotation for accuracy.
30" is VERY fast for around ball of that size. It may shoot just fine with a light charge, such as 4 drams (110gr. 2F).
I used black powder in plastic hulls to good effect.
If the hulls have paper base wads, those will have to be dried after cleaning. An oven tray with oven at 180F will dry them quickly.
Wash them with a brush under water, or with a piece of maroon scotch bright held in hemostat pliers. For a case that size, needle nose pliers would also work.
30" twist makes me think it is designed for slugs, but that greatly increases the recoil and shock to the stock.
I think you should test it with 4 drams, maybe maximum of 4 1/2 drams and 2f or 1F. No 3F, and no substitutes. If must use a sub, then T-7 would be the only one that is not harmful. A load of 3 to 3 1/2 drams would be max. imho.
REALLY good looking bore.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Marrakai
.416 member


Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 3591
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia
Re: 10 bore DR saga [Re: DarylS]
      #361943 - 13/02/22 06:50 PM

Just adding a small point to Daryl's excellent advice:
sometimes 1F in plastic hulls may produce small brimstone lava-prills that melt holes through the sidewall of the hull.
...possibly due to less efficient or incomplete burn?

My experimenting with BP in plastic hulls is vastly inferior to Daryl's extensive knowledge,
so I could quite well be doing something wrong (or stupid!)
but my recommendation would be to stick with 2F for plastic cases.

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au

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3DogMike
.400 member


Reged: 29/01/15
Posts: 1464
Loc: Western Slope, Colorado USA
Re: 10 bore DR saga [Re: TH44]
      #361961 - 14/02/22 02:18 AM

Quote:

Mike - Thanks for the info
I slugged the bore at .775" with .003/.004" grooves (as good as I could get it)

Twist is approx 1 in 30" ish (as far as I can see)….(snip)….

Thanks again guys
Tony


Hello Tony,
Admittedly I am here spectating from the "cheap seats", however I am questioning the 1-30 twist?
Looking at the very good picture of the left tube, and following a land around visually, it surely looks to me like 1/3 of a turn in the length of the bore.

Say about 23 1/2" actual rifled length x3 would be a twist of 1-70, which based upon my 8bore (1-90 ball rifle) and 12bore (1-50 conical or ball) would seem much more like it. DISCLAIMER: I do not have a 10 bore

Humble opinion? A 1-30 would be a very unusually fast twist for a bore rifle?
- Mike

--------------------
"Will Rogers never met a fighter pilot"
- Anon

“Always carry a flask of whiskey in case of snakebite, and furthermore always carry a small snake."
-- W. C. Fields

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26994
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: 10 bore DR saga [Re: 3DogMike]
      #361972 - 14/02/22 05:13 AM

Marrakai, all plastic hulls are not created equally I've found.
Some have very soft plastic, while others are quite hard.
I did not get many loads from each hull, due to the abrasion/melting that happens with the black powder - 3 at most, but generally 2.
Due to having an unlimited supply of hulls from the local trap range I no longer clean them. Seems most everyone today, shoots factory loads.
1 shot with BP and I now discard them.
I agree with Mike on the rate of twist, if faster than his guess, likely not faster than a 60" rot.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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TH44
.375 member


Reged: 21/02/09
Posts: 734
Loc: West UK
Re: 10 bore DR saga [Re: 3DogMike]
      #361990 - 14/02/22 12:44 PM

I was most surprised by the rate of twist myself

I have just rechecked with a rod halfway down the barrel which makes it clearer

1/4 or slightly less for 13" gives it a twist of 1 in 52 - 1 in 60 which is more realistic

I have 2F so that is the way I will go when I can get it to a range

Daryl - I will use your upside down plastic cup (If I can get them) with BP and plastic hulls with grease cookies behind, or just a milk carton wad

Many thanks for all your input

Tony

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26994
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: 10 bore DR saga [Re: TH44]
      #361991 - 14/02/22 02:20 PM

Pleasure & good luck.
If you cannot get the cupped gas check wads, a 3/8" drill on standard fiber cushion wads will do pretty much the same thing in keeping the ball in the middle of the bore.
Make sure you have a hard card between the BP and the plastic wad.
Black powder flame will melt the plastic and spray your bore with it as a thin coating. Happened to me.
I was able to remove it with a "tornado"(spiraled) stainless brush, likely made easier due to the smoothbore. Rifling might really suck if coated with plastic.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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3DogMike
.400 member


Reged: 29/01/15
Posts: 1464
Loc: Western Slope, Colorado USA
Re: 10 bore DR saga [Re: DarylS]
      #375212 - 17/03/23 11:48 AM

Tony,
It's been a year (where did the time go?), any news as to success shooting the old girl?

I snagged a 10 Bore Paradox, however nothing to report as Winter closed in on me.

- Mike

--------------------
"Will Rogers never met a fighter pilot"
- Anon

“Always carry a flask of whiskey in case of snakebite, and furthermore always carry a small snake."
-- W. C. Fields

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TH44
.375 member


Reged: 21/02/09
Posts: 734
Loc: West UK
Re: 10 bore DR saga [Re: 3DogMike]
      #375263 - 18/03/23 11:23 AM

Hi Mike - I am afraid I have failed completely!

My usual range has a restriction of .455" cal and 1650 M.E.

I have not had time to visit the alternative range 80 miles away but the dealer I used to put the rifles on temporary ticket with has died, so it would be taking a chance by using it illegally (although ~I could use shotgun shells in my 10 bore paradox by putting it temporarily on s/g cert)

As I said in my post re: your H&H I wish I had your shooting freedoms

Cheers

Tony

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