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Rothhammer1
.400 member


Reged: 06/01/17
Posts: 1826
Loc: The Redwoods of California
9.5X57 Brass on GunBroker
      #310246 - 11/01/18 07:47 AM

Here's a lot of 50 cartridge cases, properly formed from new, unfired 9.3X57 Norma by Reeds Ammo Specialties (Oklahoma). I've purchased 9.5X57 from him before, does nice work and he's a straight shooter.

GunBroker

--------------------
Citizen of the Cherokee Nation

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85lc
.400 member


Reged: 19/01/18
Posts: 1031
Loc: Georgia, USA
Re: 9.5X57 Brass on GunBroker [Re: Rothhammer1]
      #315604 - 24/04/18 11:24 PM

Buyer beware!

I had a problem with the quality of that company's product and their ability to honor any warranty of their product.

--------------------
RB

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Rothhammer1
.400 member


Reged: 06/01/17
Posts: 1826
Loc: The Redwoods of California
Re: 9.5X57 Brass on GunBroker [Re: 85lc]
      #315636 - 25/04/18 06:14 PM

What was the issue?

I ordered 9.5X57 from him late last year, received 8X56.

I phoned the gent who owns Reeds, who was genuinely apologetic, immediately offered to and reimbursed me for (more than) the cost of return shipping and promptly shipped the proper replacements (without waiting for arrival of the mis - shipped order).

He was very courteous, sincere, and a 'regular guy'through the entire transaction.

I haven't fired any of the rounds yet, but they measure out correctly and look just fine. The 'shoulders' are in the proper place and are of the proper width - unlike some other reloader's reworked X57, and they have the proper 270 grain RN projectiles. They cycle flawlessly through the Schoenauer magazine.

His '9.5X57' brass arrives to him from Norma straight walled (though headstamped 9.3X57), he then forms the shoulders with dies. Some others use 8X57, simply run through a two die set, leaving shoulders both low and narrow as they aren't touched by the 9.5X57 die. To use 8X57 (for 9.5X57), the brass must be drawn out (expanded) first.

These are some '9.5X57' that were old stock from a now defunct reloader. The 2nd and 4th were formed from .30-'06 and have proper shoulders for the 9.5X57. The 1st and 3rd are formed from 8X57 and do not. The '8X57' rounds went back.:



The far left cartridge of the image below is from Reeds, #2 is one of my old handloads (from unfired .35 Whelen brass), #3 is an original (1926) DWM531, #4 is fired brass from one of my old handloads (from .35 Whelen). When .35 Whelen or .30-'06 brass is used, a two die set pushes the shoulder down for a proper fit.:

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85lc
.400 member


Reged: 19/01/18
Posts: 1031
Loc: Georgia, USA
Re: 9.5X57 Brass on GunBroker [Re: Rothhammer1]
      #315645 - 26/04/18 04:59 AM

The issue was that I bought two boxes of 8x58.5 from Reed. The ammo would not seat in my double rifle so I measured the brass. Everything was fine except the length was about 62mm.

I contacted Reed who was apologized but said he did not think it was the problem and offered that the rifle may have a chamber issue. He agreed to take the ammo back and remake it with brass trimmed to 58.5 mm. Reed did not offer to pay for shipping the ammo back to him so I shipped it at my cost.

A couple months later, I had not heard back from Reed so told him that h=if he could not complete the order, to refund my money and I would start reloading for this round.

He became very huffy and told me he was refunding my purchase cost (minus his shipping cost and minus a 20% restocking fee. So I was out two shipping costs and 20% for his restocking.

Now, the good part is that I ordered brass & bullets from Buffalo and dies from CH4D and started reloading. The gun shoots well. Buffalo's brass measured 58.5mm.

Everybody makes mistakes from time to time but I will not do business with or recommend a compaany that can not correct their own mistakes.

--------------------
RB

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85lc
.400 member


Reged: 19/01/18
Posts: 1031
Loc: Georgia, USA
Re: 9.5X57 Brass on GunBroker [Re: 85lc]
      #315646 - 26/04/18 05:10 AM

BTW, I bought 9.5x57 brass from Buffalo and a set of dies from CH4D. These work very well.
Buffalo reforms 35 Whelen into 9.5x57.

I have made 9.5 brass from 8 mm mauser. I expanded the neck in a couple of steps to 40 cal and then formed the brass back to 375.

With all reformed brass that I rework or buy, I anneal the brass before reloading. Otherwise, I get splits in the neck.

I reload my 9.5 with 235 gr bullets which are great for paper and deer.

--------------------
RB

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Rothhammer1
.400 member


Reged: 06/01/17
Posts: 1826
Loc: The Redwoods of California
Re: 9.5X57 Brass on GunBroker [Re: 85lc]
      #315661 - 26/04/18 04:00 PM

Quote:

BTW, I bought 9.5x57 brass from Buffalo and a set of dies from CH4D. These work very well.
Buffalo reforms 35 Whelen into 9.5x57.
I reload my 9.5 with 235 gr bullets which are great for paper and deer.




I have RCBS dies (two die set) that I purchased back in the late '80s when I first inherited my 9.5X57 (M1910) MS. They also reform 35 Whelen very easily and properly (after trimming to overall length, of course).

Do your 235 grainers feed through the Schoenauer magazine, or do you just load two at a time?

I have found that if the bullet profile is not rather close to that of the original (Eley - Kynoch, DWM) specifications, a third round will get 'jacked' and will not feed.

The old Hornady 3715 (.375, 270g. RN) worked just fine.

Member Kuduae, however, has advised that he has used Barnes 30486 (.375, 235 gr.) while seating them further 'out' to more closely match the finished profile of the original cartridge.



There is now this option for fresh new (not reformed) brass, as well:



--------------------
Citizen of the Cherokee Nation

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Rothhammer1
.400 member


Reged: 06/01/17
Posts: 1826
Loc: The Redwoods of California
Re: 9.5X57 Brass on GunBroker [Re: 85lc]
      #315663 - 26/04/18 04:45 PM

Quote:



He became very huffy and told me he was refunding my purchase cost (minus his shipping cost and minus a 20% restocking fee. So I was out two shipping costs and 20% for his restocking.

Everybody makes mistakes from time to time but I will not do business with or recommend a compaany that can not correct their own mistakes.




Your experience with Reeds and mine seem to be polar opposites. Good day / bad day?

This was my initial correspondence (and Reed's prompt reply) regarding the mis shipment of my order.

No muss, no fuss:



I actually doubled the order, had him send me two boxes. Those arrived just fine a short time later.

BR.

--------------------
Citizen of the Cherokee Nation

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85lc
.400 member


Reged: 19/01/18
Posts: 1031
Loc: Georgia, USA
Re: 9.5X57 Brass on GunBroker [Re: Rothhammer1]
      #315698 - 27/04/18 07:04 AM

Rothhammer1

I am glad that Ron treated you fairly. Maybe Ron has changed his business tactics.

I looked back at the 6 months of email exchanges with him. He claimed he had never had problems before but would make it right. I sent him chamber casts, mic'd dimensions of the chamber casts, and in the end, he returned 80% of the ammo cost and 0% of the shipping costs.

I would rather deal with people that understand the golden rule (not the one of he who has the gold, rules)

Happy shooting your 9.5x57. It is a great cartridge. Is your MS1910 a carbine or rifle?

Mine is a rifle with built in peep sight. They really are nice rifles.

--------------------
RB

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85lc
.400 member


Reged: 19/01/18
Posts: 1031
Loc: Georgia, USA
Re: 9.5X57 Brass on GunBroker [Re: 85lc]
      #315702 - 27/04/18 07:37 AM

Rothhammer1

The 235 grainers feed fine. The cartridges seat on the shoulder in the spool magazine. My MS will feed empty cartridges.

I normally try to seat bullets so the loaded cartridge is near the maximum length but I may have seated these a little deeper to provide enough neck grip I would have to check my records.

You wrote: "I have found that if the bullet profile is not rather close to that of the original (Eley - Kynoch, DWM) specifications, a third round will get 'jacked' and will not feed".

I have never had a case jack but most of my shooting has been at a range. I slowly cycle the bolt so I can grab the fired case and then cycle the bolt home.

You wrote: "The old Hornady 3715 (.375, 270g. RN) worked just fine." Are these discontinued? Is there a cup & lead replacement?

You wrote: "Member Kuduae, however, has advised that he has used Barnes 30486 (.375, 235 gr.) while seating them further 'out' to more closely match the finished profile of the original cartridge." I guess I stayed away from homogeneous copper bullets because I was concerned that they are too tough for vintage gun barrels? Do you have any thoughts on that.

It is great that you mention Quality Cartridge. I believe their brass is excellent.

Quality used to provide loaded cartridges. For me, the sad thing is that I used Reed instead of Quality because Reed said they just finished a run of 8 mm Sauer and the owner of Quality told me it would be a while before they could load the Sauer. A couple of years later, I talked to the owner and he said he decided to focus on just the brass.

--------------------
RB

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Rothhammer1
.400 member


Reged: 06/01/17
Posts: 1826
Loc: The Redwoods of California
Re: 9.5X57 Brass on GunBroker [Re: 85lc]
      #315736 - 27/04/18 08:27 PM

Quote:

Rothhammer1

I am glad that Ron treated you fairly. Maybe Ron has changed his business tactics.

Happy shooting your 9.5x57. It is a great cartridge. Is your MS1910 a carbine or rifle?

Mine is a rifle with built in peep sight. They really are nice rifles.



It's one o' these, also with the folding tang sight and extra sight bead in grip cap, claw mounted Gerard scope. It was my Grandfather's when he was in Ceylon and Singapore with Goodyear, Ca. 1930-40.



--------------------
Citizen of the Cherokee Nation

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Rothhammer1
.400 member


Reged: 06/01/17
Posts: 1826
Loc: The Redwoods of California
Re: 9.5X57 Brass on GunBroker [Re: 85lc]
      #315738 - 27/04/18 09:28 PM

Quote:

Rothhammer1

The cartridges seat on the shoulder in the spool magazine. My MS will feed empty cartridges.

You wrote: "I have found that if the bullet profile is not rather close to that of the original (Eley - Kynoch, DWM) specifications, a third round will get 'jacked' and will not feed".

You wrote: "The old Hornady 3715 (.375, 270g. RN) worked just fine." Are these discontinued? Is there a cup & lead replacement?

You wrote: "Member Kuduae, however, has advised that he has used Barnes 30486 (.375, 235 gr.) while seating them further 'out' to more closely match the finished profile of the original cartridge." I guess I stayed away from homogeneous copper bullets because I was concerned that they are too tough for vintage gun barrels? Do you have any thoughts on that.

It is great that you mention Quality Cartridge. I believe their brass is excellent.



Your "cartridges seat on the shoulder in the spool magazine"?

When was your MS made? The later Schoenauer magazine has a retaining ring that is not present on earlier models such as my (1922 proofed) M1910. If I attempt to load spire points (or any other projectiles without enough 'meat' toward the forward end), the third round will jam.

This is as they are going in, and I have heard the very same from other M1910 owners. If the profile of the entire finished cartridge is not very close to that of DWM 531, they shift a bit and the 'nose' (or not enough nose) gets jacked into a void between magazine and stock. In order to use them, three cartridges of the proper profile must be loaded first, then two of the spires.

Hornady 3715 has been 'out of production' (not offered) for some years now (2009 or so) and has become quite scarce. Watch MidwayUSA for 'factory seconds' of .375 270 grain RN. I have purchased them and am almost entirely sure they're Hornady 3715.

For advice regarding 'cup and cast', ask member Sharps 4590. He is an afficianado of cast bullets. I've used them only in a .44 Mag. Ruger and in black powder applications.

Kuduae had written of the Barnes 30486 in response to a query of mine regarding lead free loading for the M1910. Where I live you can't shoot most critters with lead any more and there are some big, juicy, destructive feral hogs hereabouts. He uses them in restricted areas, as well. All cartridges I have fired through the ol' M1910 to date have been my handloads of 35 Whelen brass resized and loaded with RCBS dies, Hornady 3715, and IMR 4895. Grand Dad used DWM 531 'back in the day' (there were a few in the case).

I Purchased some of the Qual Cart 9.5X57 brass to go with the Midway 270grain RN's, but haven't loaded them yet (or anything for several years). I need to dig out my bench and put these things to use.

This photo from a previous post by Kuduae shows several Schoenauer magazines. Note that the 'retaining ring' starts with the M1924. The caption is his:


Left to right:
M1903 in 6.5x54 length oa 86.4mm width 26.0mm length of rotor 77.8mm
M1910 in 9.5x57 l 86.4mm w 28.6mm rotor 77.8mm
Her the cartridges are guided by the base and bullet nose.
M1924, the so-called "Sequoia model" in .30-06
length 92.9mm wide 28.2mm rotor 84.5mm
This model introduced a cartridge guide ring around the bullets, in front of case necks.
The lengthening of the mag box to the rear necessitated a different, new bolt stop, as the old one would hang out in the air if placed farther back on the receiver.
M1925 in 8x60S length 92.9mm wide 28.2mm rotor 84.5mm
from here on the guide ring is relocated to support the specific case shoulder.
All the post-war Mannlicher-Schoenauers have these long magazines, they only differ in the position of the guide ring and the shape of the much simplified rotors.
M1952 Magnum in 6.5x68 92.9mm wide 28.2 rotor 86.2mm

--------------------
Citizen of the Cherokee Nation

Edited by Rothhammer1 (27/04/18 09:44 PM)

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