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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Mannlicher Discussion forum & Archive
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Ed
.224 member


Reged: 31/08/14
Posts: 10
Loc: Upstate NY, USA
Problem Tang Screw
      #277757 - 10/02/16 08:47 AM

I have a 1952 MS with double set triggers. The set trigger is very sensitive to the torque on the tang screw. If the screw is to tight I can not set the trigger. Which leaves me no room to tweak the torque and leaves it a little loose. I would like to be able to tighten the screw more.

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casper50
.400 member


Reged: 18/10/07
Posts: 1445
Loc: Alaska
Re: Problem Tang Screw [Re: Ed]
      #277760 - 10/02/16 09:16 AM

Stick a piece of thin cardboard under the tang. Try tightening the screw and see if that helps.

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Ed
.224 member


Reged: 31/08/14
Posts: 10
Loc: Upstate NY, USA
Re: Problem Tang Screw [Re: casper50]
      #277762 - 10/02/16 10:21 AM

Is this a problem that is known?

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26994
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Problem Tang Screw [Re: Ed]
      #277764 - 10/02/16 11:13 AM


The front guard screw is the one that needs to be TIGHT! The rear screw less so - apparently. I like them both tight, myself. I believe this helps prevent tang slitting.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Ed
.224 member


Reged: 31/08/14
Posts: 10
Loc: Upstate NY, USA
Re: Problem Tang Screw [Re: DarylS]
      #277768 - 10/02/16 12:25 PM

The groups sucked when tang screw loose

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MikeRowe
.333 member


Reged: 23/11/11
Posts: 478
Loc: Arkansas, USA
Re: Problem Tang Screw [Re: Ed]
      #277773 - 10/02/16 02:07 PM

It sounds like the wood has shrunk a little, and the clearances inside need adjustment.
Take it to a competent workman who is familiar with Mannlichers.
A "gunsmith" probably won't do.

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Ed
.224 member


Reged: 31/08/14
Posts: 10
Loc: Upstate NY, USA
Re: Problem Tang Screw [Re: MikeRowe]
      #277781 - 10/02/16 10:44 PM

That may be a problem.

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szihn
.400 member


Reged: 24/06/07
Posts: 2121
Loc: United States
Re: Problem Tang Screw [Re: Ed]
      #277797 - 11/02/16 08:08 AM

Is the rear screw ferral in the stock?
If not the tang can flex and cause that problem.
If it's gone you can make a new one out of a piece of 1/4" tubing.

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Ed
.224 member


Reged: 31/08/14
Posts: 10
Loc: Upstate NY, USA
Re: Problem Tang Screw [Re: szihn]
      #277800 - 11/02/16 08:41 AM

No the feral is there but I think I found a problem with the inletting from the feral rearward to the end of the trigger assembly. The inletting is not of the same elevation as the ferral. It was kind of stepped up to the end of the inletting. I shimmed it so that it is at the same elevation to the end. I think by tightening down all the way I was springing the assembly down to the ferral. Shimming I think prevents this torquing of the assembly.

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26994
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Problem Tang Screw [Re: Ed]
      #277803 - 11/02/16 10:24 AM

ferrule - steel cylinder, usually a "loose" tang screw housing in Mauser-Type actions. When proud (shrunken or compressed wood top and bottom) with the action and bottom metal bottoming out on the ferrule only, stock splitting is normal from recoil, especially when the action recoil lug area is also in need of re-bedding.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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szihn
.400 member


Reged: 24/06/07
Posts: 2121
Loc: United States
Re: Problem Tang Screw [Re: DarylS]
      #277808 - 11/02/16 01:27 PM

Thanks for the spelling correction Daryl.

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Ed
.224 member


Reged: 31/08/14
Posts: 10
Loc: Upstate NY, USA
Re: Problem Tang Screw [Re: szihn]
      #277832 - 11/02/16 10:06 PM

I should have left the spelling as it was. My spell check did not recognize it so I went with it.

To the problem with the stock..do I need to glass bed the area of the trigger? The ferrule and the surrounding wood is at a lower elevation than where the wood meets the end of the trigger assembly (posterior).

Edited by Ed (11/02/16 11:57 PM)

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Ed
.224 member


Reged: 31/08/14
Posts: 10
Loc: Upstate NY, USA
Re: Problem Tang Screw [Re: Ed]
      #277833 - 12/02/16 12:00 AM

Ive looked to this a little further and found two schools of thought. One says the ferrule should be removed and the recoil lug and tang area should be bedded with glass. The other said to leave the ferrule in place. What would be the best way to go?

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szihn
.400 member


Reged: 24/06/07
Posts: 2121
Loc: United States
Re: Problem Tang Screw [Re: Ed]
      #277834 - 12/02/16 12:22 AM

The best way to fix this problem is to wax everything metal EXCEPT the ferrule and glass the area around the front receiver ring, and the tang area, and also put a pea-sized dollop of glass around the rear of the trigger guard. Make SURE the screws are all waxed, and I use some wax inside the ferrule too. Tighten down the front screw tight as you would any other time but just take the slack out of the rear screw so you just feel it start to tighten against the ferrule. Stand the rifle up and let the glass harden for about 6 hours.

In 6 hours take out the rear screw and leave it out for now. Take out the front screw and re-wax it, and put it back in. Let the rifle stand for about 16 more hours.

Next take it all apart and clean off the wax and any "flashing" you have from the glass-bedding job in places you don't want it.

When you put the rifle back together this time the steel will not be able to flex. The ferrule is used as a depth gauge, but at this point any shrinkage of the wood that you have is not filled with glass and you will have 100% support where you need it.

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Igorrock
.400 member


Reged: 01/03/07
Posts: 1649
Loc: Finland
Re: Problem Tang Screw [Re: szihn]
      #277838 - 12/02/16 02:30 AM

Bedding with "ferrule" has been called as "pillar bedding". I have done this work to all my mausers and many clients rifles too without any problem.

--------------------
http://promaakari.wordpress.com/

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26994
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Problem Tang Screw [Re: Igorrock]
      #277840 - 12/02/16 03:41 AM

Exactly, Igorrock & Steve - it works perfectly.

Most military Mausers and some commercial actions are like this, with loose ferrules & many already have the cracks.

The older Husky's are quite prone to 'fault' as well.

Maybe people say this is due to the wood behind the recoil lug shrinking, causing movement rearward, thus relieving behind the tank is their answer. Yes - that too, but not all, of course.

They forget about the vertical compression of the wood in both fore and aft contact zones also making the rear 'joint' loose as well.

Proper bedding in both places is the answer as noted by the fine gentlemen above.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Ed
.224 member


Reged: 31/08/14
Posts: 10
Loc: Upstate NY, USA
Re: Problem Tang Screw [Re: DarylS]
      #277849 - 12/02/16 08:39 AM

Not to belabor the point but what I am looking at is that the elevation of the ferrule is lower than the inletted part of the stock at the rear of the trigger assembly. The ferrule is not loose. I shimmed the stock at the lower elevation to match the higher part so as not to spring the assembly down to meet the ferrule. Either the ferrule was not done correctly to begin with or the inletting of the stock to the rear of the trigger was wrong. Have not been to the range yet to see if this helps or not yet. I will end up taking the rifle to a gunsmith to have him correct the bedding problem.

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Igorrock
.400 member


Reged: 01/03/07
Posts: 1649
Loc: Finland
Re: Problem Tang Screw [Re: Ed]
      #277853 - 12/02/16 10:22 AM

This is not MS but you could see the idea of pillar bedding here:



--------------------
http://promaakari.wordpress.com/

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26994
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Problem Tang Screw [Re: Igorrock]
      #277854 - 12/02/16 11:14 AM

The pillars being hard bedded into the stock.
The, or perhaps SOME only, BR shooters bed twice. The bed to the pillars, remove the action, then a thin skin of bedding between the pillars and the action & floor plate to have perfectly square joints.

Nice pillars, Igorrock - lots of surface area for locking to the stock.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Ed
.224 member


Reged: 31/08/14
Posts: 10
Loc: Upstate NY, USA
Re: Problem Tang Screw [Re: DarylS]
      #277855 - 12/02/16 12:03 PM

The problem I have is that the trigger assembly goes rearward of the ferrule by about 3/8 of and inch and the elevation at the rear of the trigger is higher than the ferrule. That is where I shimmed it to prevent the assembly from being drawn down to the ferrule.

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Igorrock
.400 member


Reged: 01/03/07
Posts: 1649
Loc: Finland
Re: Problem Tang Screw [Re: Ed]
      #277888 - 13/02/16 03:16 AM

This foto is just an example, not my work. I used to bed just pillars first and then, after they are settled down in correct place, mill 2-3 mm wood away from bedding area and then, att lastly, add the mass, usually Acraglass.
I just checked my old MS. It's rear screw pillar (=ferrule) is in correct lenght. I´m not sure but I have idea that trigger assemblys dimensions have changed a little from earlier pre-WW1 models to later ones. So question is: Does yours rifle have correct period assembly ?

--------------------
http://promaakari.wordpress.com/

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Ed
.224 member


Reged: 31/08/14
Posts: 10
Loc: Upstate NY, USA
Re: Problem Tang Screw [Re: Igorrock]
      #277894 - 13/02/16 04:30 AM

The trigger assembly is correct. My perception of the inletting was incorrect. I find the trigger highly sensitive to its installation. I do manage to get the set trigger to work correctly with a little shim just behind the ferrule. But when screwing in trigger guard it messes up the set trigger. I changed the amount that I put into the trigger guard and all works now. I can see why the double set triggers could drive a person nuts.

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