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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Mannlicher Discussion forum & Archive
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bwanakim
.275 member


Reged: 04/12/06
Posts: 69
Loc: San Antonio, Texas
M/S Scope Adjustment Question
      #237003 - 23/10/13 10:42 AM

I have a nice 1903 6.5 X 54 Carbine that came with two scopes, both claw mounted. The oldest is a Zeiss, the newer is a Kahles 4X. Both scopes have provisions for adjusting elevation only. I have read that these rifles were regulated with a certain load, and therefore, there was no provision for windage adjustment. Be that as it may, my rifle groups 2.5 inches to the right at 100 yards with the Kahles, the clearer and presumably newer scope. The group itself is acceptable. I am using 36 grains of RL-15 and the 155 Lapua.

It appears the front scope base is dovetailed in, but I haven't attempted to move it pending getting some advice. Can these scopes be adjusted in any manner for windage, or do I just have to remember to hold to the left? Would a different bullet weight work better?

I appreciate any help readers may be able to provide.

--------------------
bwanakim

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500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: M/S Scope Adjustment Question [Re: bwanakim]
      #237010 - 23/10/13 02:50 PM


Try a different seating depth and a different bullet.

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xausa
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Reged: 07/03/07
Posts: 2037
Loc: Tennessee, USA
Re: M/S Scope Adjustment Question [Re: bwanakim]
      #237011 - 23/10/13 03:07 PM

Does the part of the rear ring just above the base have two large screws opposing each other in it? If so, that provides the windage adjustment.

To move the point of impact to the right, back the right hand screw out a quarter of a turn and turn the left hand screw until it is tight, then test fire. You should be able to estimate the amount of movement required to center your point of impact.

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Igorrock
.400 member


Reged: 01/03/07
Posts: 1649
Loc: Finland
Re: M/S Scope Adjustment Question [Re: xausa]
      #237016 - 23/10/13 05:54 PM

I have had the same problem; I first tested those screws in my rear upper part but it doesn´t help untill I adjusted the front dovetailed piece sideways too.

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bwanakim
.275 member


Reged: 04/12/06
Posts: 69
Loc: San Antonio, Texas
Re: M/S Scope Adjustment Question [Re: Igorrock]
      #237031 - 24/10/13 05:26 AM

Thanks to all for the suggestions. I will try the rear screws first. I will seek professional help on the dovetail as the front base looks to be in there pretty tight. I tried some ammo loaded by Hornady for Graf and Sons. It uses a 140 grain Hornady bullet. This load shoots only slightly to the right, but is not as accurate or "traditional" as the Lapua. I went with that bullet as the 160 Hornady RN I used in a single shot 6X53R is not available anymore.

--------------------
bwanakim

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DonZ
.300 member


Reged: 24/12/12
Posts: 120
Loc: BW
Re: M/S Scope Adjustment Question [Re: bwanakim]
      #237041 - 24/10/13 11:13 AM

Woodleigh Bullets makes a 160 grain round nose and spitzer (protected point) bullet...

http://www.woodleighbullets.com.au/bullet-lists/traditional/264q-333q

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Honor never grows old, and honor rejoices the heart of age...

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Kiwi_bloke
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Reged: 03/09/09
Posts: 256
Loc: New Zealand
Re: M/S Scope Adjustment Question [Re: DonZ]
      #237053 - 24/10/13 08:38 PM

Have a closer look at the front dovetailed scope mount. See if there's a witness mark, a line that has been stamped into the steel that moves when drifted - to line it up with a second fixed stamped line. They don't necessarily have to be exactly even, but as you adjust, you'll have a point of reference. You might also consider using a 0.001" dial caliper to keep some track of how much adjustment you have done and the result on the POI. That way you can best judge how much more is needed. Be careful doing any drift adjustment you don't mar the metal. I use a small piece of flat, hard wood to sit on what I want to hammer and then use a soft faced hammer on that. The rifle will need to be held steady. A leather sand-bag or two at the range will usually do the job and you might pack things with a silicon cloth or similar. Take your time to do this adjusting carefully.


Plan B is to look for those 2 opposing rear-mount screws and use 1/4 turns as instructed. If at first it doesn't work, use some penetrating oil as the mount may be seized. Use close fitting screw drivers. If there's no witness mark there, use the side of the mount as a guide. Also make sure any oil used can't find it's way anywhere near the optics.

Some bullets will take on a bit more or less lateral movement and you could try to find a bullet that will land exactly where the POA is. There's a good chance it'll work. However, unless you find a suitable bullet fairly quickly, I'd choose what I considered the best bullet for the job and then make small adjustments to the front or rear mount to accommodate it. A change of powder might work, but a different bullet is more likely to move POI. Only one way to find out for sure!

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bwanakim
.275 member


Reged: 04/12/06
Posts: 69
Loc: San Antonio, Texas
Re: M/S Scope Adjustment Question [Re: Kiwi_bloke]
      #237487 - 05/11/13 01:18 PM

Thanks to those who gave suggestions. I moved the rear screws and got perfect adjustment for windage, first using a bore scope, then fine tuning. I have another problem that I could use some help with. What is the best way to shoot these rifles off the bench? Should the fore end be rested directly on the front sandbag as is SOP with non-full stocked rifles, or should the hand be placed under the fore end and then rested on the bag, like with a double? These rifles are much lighter than I am used to shooting, and while I get excellent groups with both 140 Woodleighs and 155 grain Lapuas at 50 yards, my results at 100 yards are inconsistent. Any suggestions are greatly appreciated.

--------------------
bwanakim

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MikeRowe
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Reged: 23/11/11
Posts: 478
Loc: Arkansas, USA
Re: M/S Scope Adjustment Question [Re: bwanakim]
      #237489 - 05/11/13 02:23 PM

The best way to sight these light magazine rifles, and double rifles, is a standing rest. If you only have a bench rest, try to use a more upright position and use your hand under the fore end, grasping it as you would for a hunting shot. The idea is to reproduce the hunting shot as best as possible.

Different grouping and point of impact is quite possible with this type of rifle if you really get down on it, like you're shooting benchrest.

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Kiwi_bloke
.333 member


Reged: 03/09/09
Posts: 256
Loc: New Zealand
Re: M/S Scope Adjustment Question [Re: MikeRowe]
      #238138 - 21/11/13 05:07 PM

In my impression, supporting a full stocked Mannlicher under the front king screw (the front action screw), works best for the smallest groups. I'm sure I read that somewhere and it worked for me. I support the forend also just to stop it recoiling out of the rest. But the points made above are good ones and it might pay to also recheck once you have your pet load, that a different hold doesn't change the POI. When I've done this with other rifles, for instance, supported by a large bag stuffed with wood wool, (very long wood shavings), which is sort of like a standing rest, the rifle tested acted the same as on the bench with the same POI in the same place. What will alter things on a thin Mannlicher barrel in an equally thin stock with a stirrup sling mount, is trying to use a tight sling. This will pull the POI off target. You'll still hit the target, but probably left of the exact spot you were aiming at.

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