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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26994
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...

Re: Forming cases for 6.5x53R [Re: 2152hq]
#239453 - 18/12/13 04:28 AM

For a lark, I just checked some of my Dominion .303 cases and they are all .4515" at the base, ahead of the rim.

My Swift brass is way undersized compared to .303 or .30/40 Krag, with bases at .440".

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Ireload2
.224 member

Reged: 11/08/13
Posts: 41
Loc: USA

Re: Forming cases for 6.5x53R [Re: DarylS]
#239578 - 20/12/13 06:06 AM

If you measure RCBS 6.5X54 Mannlicher Schoenauer dies at the base they are about .005 smaller than the RCBS 6.5X53R dies. As a result you squash the base of your formed cases way undersize if they will yield. You are abusing your MS dies trying to size a solid .451-.452 dia case head to .446 to .448. The reason is the two rounds differ dimensionally. The 53R head is about .005 larger than the MS case. You will have sway back rounds that have to blow out each time they are fired.
If you do not have the right sizer, buy a Lee body or complete die for the 6.5 Carcano and polish the base open to about .453. Set it to locate the shoulder properly. RCBS and other MS seater dies are oversize enough to seat bullets in 6.5X53R ammo.

I sure would not use Swift brass due to the undersize case heads.

I use the more complicated sizing process because it will yield 100% good cases with no collapsed shoulders.

As far as thick necks go measure your chamber neck diameter.

Take a good 6.5X53R case and expand the neck with a long taper punch to about .310 to .315 diameter.
Then insert the case in the bolt face and shove it into the chamber. This will crush the funnel shape down with the chamber neck. Extract the case and measure it. It will probably measure .299-.300 diameter. If you do not believe you number just repeat the process. If you think you have a doughnut in your brass measure a loaded round can compare to the case neck diameter.

Edited by Ireload2 (20/12/13 06:07 AM)

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tinker
.416 member

Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada

Re: Forming cases for 6.5x53R [Re: Ireload2]
#239596 - 20/12/13 10:15 AM

My MS die doesn't form the WW 303 case head down in diameter.
Works great, brass functions beautifully.
The MS die is likely 40 years old or older.

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2152hq
.300 member

Reged: 20/05/12
Posts: 126
Loc: USA

Re: Forming cases for 6.5x53R [Re: tinker]
#239669 - 22/12/13 09:12 AM

Like Tinker,,I don't swedge the case head at all, just the brass ahead of it. If anything, sometimes I used to have to trim the head dia down on some 303 brass to allow chambering. Not so with the HXP stuff.
After the first firing it's neck size only.

My 220 Swift cases are .446/.447dia at the head.
From what I read,,and I realize I can't believe everything I read,,that's about right for the 220 brass.,,and about right for the M/S case.

If that's 'small' for the x53R it doesn't seem to be so (at least for my rifle). They form, load and fire just fine.
Some 1915 dated x53R Military ammo I have mics .448 right ahead of the rim

Makes fine M/S cases too if you need to.
No lop-sided swayback cases,,no cracks, just usable brass that go 6 to 8 loadings then I toss them.

No thick neck problem with the 303HXP,,just the small step at the base of the neck inside after forming. Probably heavier brass in the Military cases or just the thicker wall forming up where the new neck is being pushed back too.
The drill takes care of it nicely. ('G' drill, I went and looked. .261d and probably cuts a bit oversize so it's OK. Slips right into the case mouth and down to the 'step'. A quick couple of twists and it's clear.)

Keep it simple.

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FrankS
.300 member

Reged: 06/10/08
Posts: 114
Loc: New Iberia Louisiana

Re: Forming cases for 6.5x53R [Re: 2152hq]
#239681 - 22/12/13 10:54 PM

not to stir things up, but it seems to me that all the makers did not discard the origional military barrel when building up their sporters. I was wondering if this was done with an eye towards ecomony or maybe they felt that the military barrel shot well enough for their purposes. here in the States a custom rifle usually means a new barrel at the very least. I don't know how many barrels you see on gunbroker being advertised as being "takeoffs" But there are a bunch.Frank

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sparks1
.275 member

Reged: 16/03/13
Posts: 54
Loc: USA

Re: Forming cases for 6.5x53R [Re: FrankS]
#239690 - 23/12/13 05:10 AM

Not to upset the cart either...

Is the 6.5Gibbs the same case? Here is a link to a company making that brass, though I see it is a limited run and needs sufficient backorders for them to make it.

http://www.qual-cart.com/

Actually, upon looking at their catalog, they offer the above mentioned and the 6.5x53R later along with the 6.5x54 M/S. Not cheap, by any means, but would have the correct headstamp.

--------------------
Integrity is easier to keep, than to regain.

Edited by sparks1 (23/12/13 05:21 AM)

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2152hq
.300 member

Reged: 20/05/12
Posts: 126
Loc: USA

Re: Forming cases for 6.5x53R [Re: sparks1]
#239706 - 23/12/13 02:53 PM

I ran accross a (6.5) 256 Gibbs Magnum sporter built on a 1903 Greek action and bbl at a show. Couldn't walk away from it for the price of $450.

There were also an entire line of (Rocky) Gibbs Magnum rounds made up in wildcat fashion (in the 60's IIRC) including a 6.5 version. Those are based on the standard 30-06 head size.

The 256 Gibbs Magnum (George Gibbs Rifle Co) is usually represented as being based on the 6.5 Swede cartridge with it's slightly larger head size.

With all that Al Gore internet info I went forth and expected my Geo. Gibbs sporter to be chambered for the larger Geo. Gibbs '6.5 Swede' head size version,,but it is not.
Standard 30-06 head size it is. I've since read where other owners have found the same thing to be true.

So my bargin priced used 6.5 Swede die set bought in anticipation of being able to be altered & used to make brass to feed the Gibbs sporter now simply pushes the shoulder back on 30-06 and 270 brass. With some trimming and carefull fiddling, I can make the Gibbs sporter shoot and is another fun range toy w/it's Aldis Bros scope in QD mts.

I don't know if the new brass being made is the old (Geo Gibbs Rifle Co) .256 Gibbs Magnum,,and if it is,,is it 30-06 head size or 6.5 Swede head size.

Or is it just 1960's Rocky Gibbs wildcat 6.5 Gibbs Magnum brass (probably not)

I made that more confusing than necessary didn't I,,sorry for that.

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Sarg
.400 member

Reged: 20/01/07
Posts: 1365
Loc: Nil

Re: Forming cases for 6.5x53R [Re: FrankS]
#239737 - 24/12/13 09:49 PM

Quote:

not to stir things up, but it seems to me that all the makers did not discard the origional military barrel when building up their sporters. I was wondering if this was done with an eye towards ecomony or maybe they felt that the military barrel shot well enough for their purposes. here in the States a custom rifle usually means a new barrel at the very least. I don't know how many barrels you see on gunbroker being advertised as being "takeoffs" But there are a bunch.Frank

Well on those military barrels, I don't know about the rest of them, but this is what a old Steyr carbine did with old ammo & wait it gets even better, it was delayed ignition like shooting a Flintlock !

This was at 90yds or so, as that's where the tree stump I shot from was & the big tree I nailed the target on to.

But it gets even better, the crown on the barrel looks like this !!

Barrel is quite good on the inside, it wasn't until I shot a bunch of those hard 160gr FMJ rounds out of her & she cleaned up nicely, I was going to cut her up for a sportier, but I have a Gibbs now (and I use her bolt in him) & just got a WR Steyr in 375Ex 2 1/2, not in hand yet how ever .

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DarylS
.700 member

Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26994
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...

Re: Forming cases for 6.5x53R [Re: Sarg]
#239745 - 25/12/13 03:48 AM

That's "SOME" shooting for such a crown!! I'm quite sure I would not have even tested it before re-crowning?

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Sarg
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Reged: 20/01/07
Posts: 1365
Loc: Nil

Re: Forming cases for 6.5x53R [Re: DarylS]
#239757 - 25/12/13 02:27 PM

Yes I was amazed, hence I took photos of target & crown, I just wanted to make the old girl go bang really, you know ?

Then I found some old Exmil rounds that misfired or had delayed firing, still fun to shoot, but better if they all went bang !

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