Home | Ezine | Forums | Links | Contact
NitroExpress.com: My 1908 and the 8x56MS Sharpe Handloading 8x57 Dies ref.

View recent messages : 24 hours | 48 hours | 7 days | 14 days | 30 days | 60 days | More Smilies


*** Enjoy NitroExpress.com? Participate and join in. ***
You are not logged in. [Login] Main Index · Search · Active Topics
New user · Who's Online · FAQ · Calendar

Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Mannlicher Discussion forum & Archive
Previous topic Previous   View all topics Index   Next topic Next   Threaded Mode Threaded  

Pages: 1
Wurger
.275 member


Reged: 23/12/12
Posts: 53
Loc: PA, USA
My 1908 and the 8x56MS Sharpe Handloading 8x57 Dies ref.
      #226557 - 07/03/13 04:34 PM

It seems to me that somewhere I saw a reference where the old Handloading Manual by Sharpe had a method for converting 8x57 dies to load the 8x56. Does anyone have the information on what would need to be done and if the resulting dies are worth the while. I have an extra set of 8x57 RCBS dies that I could convert so it would be a zero $$$ investment as opposed to the approx $100 to buy new 8x56 Mannlicher dies.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Kiwi_bloke
.333 member


Reged: 03/09/09
Posts: 256
Loc: New Zealand
Re: My 1908 and the 8x56MS Sharpe Handloading 8x57 Dies ref. [Re: Wurger]
      #226561 - 07/03/13 08:18 PM

Someone I knew had a old Harrison and Hussey rifle in 8x57 Mauser that had headspace issues when he acquired it. His gunsmith turned the barrel down and rotated it about 3/4 (?) turn and that made it into an 8x56 M.-Sch. It worked fine. Years later his widow asked me to sell it. I sold it to a collector who rotated it back, corrected the headspace and now it's an 8x57 again. It was originally blued after the sights were fitted, so it meant the bare patches were all covered up again.

I seem to recall that Walter also had a small amount removed from the 8x57 Mauser FL sizing die - or it might have been from the shell-holder. I spoke to a gunsmith about it and he thought that one of those options was better than the other but I can't recall which option or why. Perhaps, a modified shellholder would allow the owner to still reload both calibers.

A look at the cartridge drawings, (both are available online), of the two would show if the shoulder angles, body taper and etc are the same or similar enough and you should be able to determine the difference required in die length. I shoot an 8x56 M.Sch. but use RCBS dies in that caliber. However someone converted me to using Hornady in-line seating dies so I now use an 8x57 Mauser one for both 8x56 M.-Sch. and 8x57JR. The latter uses smaller diameter .318" bullets, but the seater die works just fine.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Caprivi
.375 member


Reged: 30/09/08
Posts: 811
Loc: America's Serengeti, Buffalo W...
Re: My 1908 and the 8x56MS Sharpe Handloading 8x57 Dies ref. [Re: Kiwi_bloke]
      #226566 - 08/03/13 02:34 AM

Hello Wurger,

While the two seem close they are not at all. The neck length is much shorter on the MS as well as shoulder angle and length being different. Shoulder diameter is smaller on the MS as well.

On some other odd 8mm's I use a 325wsm neck die to neck size them and use whatever appropriate seater that makes straight assembled ammo. Experience with a few MS rifles says that headspace is just an approximation to the assembler, so neck sizing only may be the way to go anyway, as to not bump the shoulder back.

CH4D has dies for it much cheaper than RCBS but they have stated a 10-12week shipping time before on 8x54KJ & 9.3x57mm dies.

As to the .318" diameter requirement, my experience with a set of Redding and RCBS 8x57JS dies is that when sizing with the expander removed the cases emerge with a .315" inside neck diameter, ready for .318" J bullets.

--------------------
To live life as it is handed to me from God

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Kiwi_bloke
.333 member


Reged: 03/09/09
Posts: 256
Loc: New Zealand
Re: My 1908 and the 8x56MS Sharpe Handloading 8x57 Dies ref. [Re: Caprivi]
      #226624 - 08/03/13 06:15 PM

OK, I don't have Sharpe's work but George C. Nonte in The Home Guide to Cartridge Conversions, 2nd 1967 edition, says" use .30-06 case. "Full length size in 8x56 M/S die. If die not available run into 8x57mm die 0.040" deeper than usual or until bolt will close... Use plenty of lube on head and run case into die 2 or 3 times to ensure that head is swaged down to .460" and will not spring back".

Max case length is 2.205", so trim 10 thou off that.

I'm guessing from this info that Walter, who had the converted British rifle, might have had .040" taken off his 8x57mm FL die. Converting the shellholder would be better (as you could still use the factory die on 8x57 Mauser cases), but if you do this be very sure to permanently mark the modified shell holder so you never mix it up with a regular shell holder or you'll have big head-space issues.

Ken Waters wrote about his 8x56 M/S in Handloader 175, (June-July 1995), which you could get as a back-issue off Wolfe Publishing. He used a Lyman X-2 shell holder because it had a lower profile and this meant he could size his US made 8x57 Mauser cases closer to the extractor groove, again to make sure the head was sufficiently swaged by his Redding 8x56 M/S dies. He had an original Mannlicher case that measured .460 compared to .467" on his Remington 8x57 Mauser cases. Without this swaging, they would not chamber in his rifle.

I use Norma 8x57 Mauser cases in my 8x56 M/S and use RCBS dies and .323" Teilmantel RWS bullets designed to open properly for velocities around 2,100 fps. The bore slugged at .323 and I haven't heard of .318" ones, but that's not to say you shouldn't slug your bore to be sure.

The shoulder in the 8 x 56 M/S cartridge drawing is shown as .424" and the shoulder as 22 degrees. The 8 x 57 Mauser is .431" and the shoulder 20.48 degrees. This suggests to me that, the right set of 8x56 M/S dies will work the brass less and your cases will last longer. So perhaps spring for the CH4D dies. I have a set in 9x56 and they do the job nicely.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
2152hq
.300 member


Reged: 20/05/12
Posts: 126
Loc: USA
Re: My 1908 and the 8x56MS Sharpe Handloading 8x57 Dies ref. [Re: Kiwi_bloke]
      #226678 - 09/03/13 11:37 AM

I used standard 8x57 Mauser RCBS dies to load 8x56M/S.
It's been a couple years since I've fooled with it, but it worked out OK for me.
I took a Lyman shellholder (because it was handy) and turned it down thinner so it would shove the 8x57 brass in further to set the shoulder back as related above.
The brass needed to be thinned a bit at the base or it won't chamber in my rifle. I expected that from the dimensional drawings and it takes very little to accomplish.

Standard .323 8mm bullets, neck sizing after the first load to preserve the case being blown out to the chamber. I'm sure the old 8x57 shoulder being set back doesn't perfectly match the 8x56 but if you're careful you can get a gentle crush fit on the closing bolt to maintain headspace on that first firing.
After that neck sizing only keeps you there.
I was using a 32acp seater die to neck size,,the outside diameter seemingly just the right diameter for the job.
Once I had the 8x57 FL die set just right for making 8x56's from 8x57,,I didn't want to re-adjust it for necksizing the once fired 8x56 brass with their properly shaped shoulder.

Then after all that I found a nice set of real 8x56MS dies.,,and have never reloaded any more up for the rifle since.
Time to get at it I guess.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Wurger
.275 member


Reged: 23/12/12
Posts: 53
Loc: PA, USA
Re: My 1908 and the 8x56MS Sharpe Handloading 8x57 Dies ref. [Re: 2152hq]
      #226738 - 10/03/13 02:30 PM

Since I have the 8x57 dies and a couple of shell-holders I'll first try thinning the shell-holder and see how that works. I have some vintage Western 8x56 rounds too so I'll check some dimensions before proceeding. Thanks for the input, it is very valuable to my endeavors.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Pages: 1


Previous topic Previous   View all topics Index   Next topic Next   Threaded Mode Threaded  

Extra information
0 registered and 108 anonymous users are browsing this forum.

Moderator:  CptCurl 

Print Topic

Forum Permissions
      You cannot start new topics
      You cannot reply to topics
      HTML is disabled
      UBBCode is enabled

Rating:
Topic views: 4999

Rate this topic

Jump to

Contact Us NitroExpress.com

Powered by UBB.threads™ 6.5.5


Home | Ezine | Forums | Links | Contact


Copyright 2003 to 2011 - all rights reserved