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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Mannlicher Discussion forum & Archive
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HistoricBore
.300 member


Reged: 28/09/11
Posts: 226
Loc: United Kingdom
Interesting time with old Dominion 160gr 6.5 ammo
      #214262 - 09/08/12 05:12 AM

Recently a kind person gave me half a box of Dominion factory ammunition to use in my 6.5 x 54mm Mannlicher Schoenauer carbine. I've just got back from the range and thought I would share the results with you.

The cardboard box with cardboard dividers has two batch codes stamped inside the lid. The upper one is EAA15 , and then underneath it is the code IP 14 . On the box it states the velocity of the 160 grain bullet to be 2160 feet per second. The rounds were a little corroded here and there with odd green spots, but not too bad.

As I had the chrono set up for other tests I fired off all ten, with more and more trepidation as the string went on....

Velocities were 1683, 1696, 1629, 1516 (which split badly and hit me with some hot unburnt powder). After a rest to check the rifle the others were at 1670, 1670 again, 1596, 1561, 1587 and 1503 which was also badly split. In fact five of the ten cases had split in various places. All of the shots dropped eight inches below point of aim at 100 yards - good job I was not using them on game!

The unburnt powder was of a conventional short cut stick type, and not Cordite. I wonder if any of you out there can work out how old this batch was, for my curiosity only.

Who said "Don't look a gift horse in the mouth?"

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gryphon
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Reged: 01/01/03
Posts: 5487
Loc: Sambar ground/Victoria/Austral...
Re: Interesting time with old Dominion 160gr 6.5 ammo [Re: HistoricBore]
      #214263 - 09/08/12 06:19 AM

I cant help you with any est of age at all but to me they are too old to be shooting.

I can see why you wrote the below!

"with more and more trepidation as the string went on...."

--------------------
Get off the chair away from the desk and get out in the bush and enjoy life.

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26994
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Interesting time with old Dominion 160gr 6.5 ammo [Re: gryphon]
      #214267 - 09/08/12 08:54 AM

HA! - old but how old? Storage in a warm slimate or place in a house will really screw with the powder - and brass, as seems happened to these.

We've all fired off WW1 and WW11 ammo without a hitch, so it was probably the storage that hurt injured the rounds.

I recall ammo like that in the 50's and 60's - normal stuff. It might not b e very old at all, only 50 to 70 years.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Kiwi_bloke
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Reged: 03/09/09
Posts: 256
Loc: New Zealand
Re: Interesting time with old Dominion 160gr 6.5 ammo [Re: DarylS]
      #214589 - 14/08/12 12:43 PM

2,160 ft/sec might be the listed velocity in a rifle, rather than in a carbine. Also, some companies seem to have loaded undersize slugs in these 6,5x54 M-Sch. and so there's gas escape to contend with too in what were often (in pre-1945 rifles), oversize bores. I'm not saying that you'd expect 1600 ft/sec if they were brand new, just that not all that velocity loss might be due to age.

I was recently given some very old RWS 6,5x54 M. Sch. cartridges in a poor state. I pulled the bullets, cleaned the cases in a solution of hot water, detergent, vinegar and salt to a recipe I read in an old Handloader's Digest. That removed much of the crud but they still neeed a very long polish. I loaded them with fresh powder and primers. I have reloaded Berdan, but these were Boxer primed. Must have been made post 1950. I also polished and reloaded the bullets. They fired OK. No neck-split losses but if there had been, I would have also annealed the neck/shoulder in moulten lead for 5 seconds, then quenched in water. I have a heat-sink made up, just a big block of brass, split in 2 with a split-slot to hold the case. The split block is permanently mounted on a pair of vice grips. In this way, the head of the case never even gets warm and I just open it up and drop them in the water.

The guy who gave them to me said he did so 'cause he figured I'd do all that.

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26994
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Interesting time with old Dominion 160gr 6.5 ammo [Re: Kiwi_bloke]
      #214626 - 15/08/12 01:53 AM

Nowadays for anealing, I hold the case in my fingers and run the necks into the flame of a MappGas torch in a darkened room, slowing turning the case in my fingers. It only takes a couple seconds per case including picking them up. As soon as they start into dull red, I drop them into a bucket of water. The reason for the fingers, is you'll never let the case get hot enough to anneal the sides and base.

The reason for the dark room, is if done in a well lighted room, by the time you see the red - it's usually become too hot and some of the zinc is burned from the case material.

This is a very fast method of annealing a lot of brass, much faster than any other method I've seen, used or heard of.

I then remove the brass from the water, shake the water out with a snap of the wrist and roll them in a towel, then let sit to dry in the shop (humidity of about 30%), or put out in the sun to dry in summer.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Kiwi_bloke
.333 member


Reged: 03/09/09
Posts: 256
Loc: New Zealand
Re: Interesting time with old Dominion 160gr 6.5 ammo [Re: DarylS]
      #214773 - 16/08/12 07:14 PM

That sounds like a first rate method and I'll try it to compare. I just warm up a shotmaker with a shallow layer of lead. The lead too is not too hot. When moulten, the case goes in mouth first up to the shoulder. It can't go deeper as the lead layer is only shallow anyway. 5 seconds then quench. The first lot I did was a batch where every unfired case split just being F.L. sized. So I annealed them. I followed the instructions which said primer out. Clearly a live primer is a no-no, but with no primer at all, air bled from the exposed flash hole and a drop of lead got into several cases and solidified. These were really expensive cases. Now that they were annealed, I was able to expand their neck up in several steps, use a bullet puller to remove the lead and then neck them back down again. Not a single split neck and, none split after being fired and reloaded several times either. I guess this brass (5,6x61 S.E. vom Hofe) was old stock.

The thing I take from all this is (1) always leave a spent primer in the case if using this method, (never a live one). And (2) annealing REALLY works.

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