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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Mannlicher Discussion forum & Archive
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bpesteve
.300 member


Reged: 18/11/03
Posts: 106
Loc: Sunset side up
M-S internal stock crack
      #187912 - 14/08/11 06:56 AM

Recently I picked up a very good condition 1908 M-S complete with original claw mounted scope, something I'd been looking for quite a while (though a 1905 would have been even better... ). After a bit of experimenting with a mild load or two I began to suspect all was not well with the bedding, so today I took it apart and discovered the web in the stock between the magazine well and trigger opening was cracked right through, with the crack continuing back toward the rear action screw hole.

Dang.

Anyone have a good suggestion as to a secure repair? With lesser rifles I have drilled holes along similar cracks and used glue to good success, but I really don't fancy doing that to a nice Mannlicher. The crack is just wide enough that I suppose a free-running adhesive could be injected without drilling extra holes if such a product exists, or I suppose I could just run a 1/4-20 bolt through from side to side... not!

With the tiny surface at the front action lug and basically no area at the back end of the action to transfer backward force, the design appears to put most of the recoil right on that stock web via the rear surface of the magazine well. At the moment, with the action in the stock and only the front screw threaded in to within the last half turn, there's a small but noticeable fore-and-aft motion of the action in the stock. Obviously when the fully assembled gun is fired the action is slamming the back of the magazine well into the that narrow web of wood with every shot. Not good.

Anyway, I suppose when I'm 92 years old (marks show a 1919 date) I'll be a little loose in the joints too. I'd just like to see it make another 92 years.

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kuduae
.400 member


Reged: 13/01/10
Posts: 1792
Loc: middle of Germany
Re: M-S internal stock crack [Re: bpesteve]
      #187925 - 14/08/11 09:42 AM

Hi Steven, stock splitting is a quite common problem with Mannlicher-Schoenauer sporters. All the turnbolt Mannlichers from the M1892 on up to the M1910 share this tiny excuse for a recoil lug. They inherited this design fault from their granddaddy, the German M88 commission rifles. On the military M88 this lug abutted against a contoured steel crossbolt, while the military Mannlicher and Greek 03 M-Sch stocks had a small steel plate inletted into the stocks behind that "lug". Unfortunately, OEWG Steyr omitted this feature on the 03, 05, 08 and 10 sporters. Split stocks are especially common on the harder recoiling 9.5x57 aka .375 NE M1910s. With the .30-06 1924 model, known in the USA as the "Sequoia", they introduced a decent recoil lug like the one on the Mauser. But, from my experience with my own M1924, their stockers sometimes missed the purpose of this square protrusion.
The repairs you suggest are temporary at best. Even with the best of glues the stock will split again. If your glue is really good, stronger than the wood, it will some day simply split alongside the old crack. To really preserve such an old M-Sch rifle, more radical solutions are on order. I have encountered two 08s and my own 24 so far that were in nearly unused condition. Why? All three rifles apparently were bum shooters from the start, so they were relegated to a rear corner of the gunroom and rarely used. On close inspection I noticed the recoil lugs hanging out in the air, no contact with the stock. Recoil was taken up by the lower end of the rear magazine wall, as apparently on your rifle also. But the mag wall acts like a heavy leaf spring under recoil, shifting the action and barrel back and fore, until the wood splits. My tested solution to the problem: I cut out a recess behind the recoil lug to take a hidden crossbolt, FI a piece of a woodscrew. If the stock is already split behind the magazine. I install such hidden bolts there too. Then I glassbed everything. Now, slightly relieve the wood behind the magazine to avoid contact there. If done properly, nothing of this permanent repair is visible from the outside.
BTW, what is the state of your and John's plans for a roebuck hunt in Germany? Up until now, I had little luck myself this year.

--------------------
German foresters: We like sustainability! For merely 300 years by 2013.

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500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: M-S internal stock crack [Re: kuduae]
      #187926 - 14/08/11 09:45 AM


Holland bolt action rifles cracked in the same place.

My stock maker glued them up and then made sure any back pressure was taken up in other locations, however he did explain to me that the stock "Expands"at this point and that is one reason the stock cracks here.

.

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bpesteve
.300 member


Reged: 18/11/03
Posts: 106
Loc: Sunset side up
Re: M-S internal stock crack [Re: kuduae]
      #188416 - 24/08/11 06:36 AM

Hello Axel, sorry I haven't replied to your post for over a week; I have been having a bit of a medical "adventure". Anyway, your explanation of both the problem and the solution makes a lot of sense and it looks like I will be rebuilding the inside of the stock this fall. I'm pretty comfortable with Brownell's Acraglas bedding material and a trip to the local hardware store got me a one inch long by quarter-inch-square-section, hardened steel gearshaft 'key' to inlet into the stock behind the tiny front action lug. That ought to take care of the recoil problem and I'll make sure the magazine well does not contact that fragile web of wood when I'm finished. While I'm at it I'll also make sure that the action sits at the correct height in the wood to allow the front action screw to 'clock' correctly again.

And thanks for the reminder about the roe deer, I talked to John yesterday and got him fired up about the idea again. We will be talking to you soon!

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malco
.275 member


Reged: 11/02/09
Posts: 76
Loc: montana, usa
Re: M-S internal stock crack [Re: bpesteve]
      #212951 - 18/07/12 01:38 PM

Reviving this thread in the hopes of getting a little insight on factory takedown Mannlichers--a friend recently bought a gorgeous, early M1903, which got me wondering whether the takedown rifles also tend to crack through the web or behind the tang in the manner of the conventional rifles, and if so, whether a more modern recoil lug might be fitted into the takedown stocks as kuduae describes above. Any help or opinion would be appreciated!
Best,
Malcolm

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tinker
.416 member


Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada
Re: M-S internal stock crack [Re: malco]
      #212952 - 18/07/12 02:02 PM

Good pile of information in a small space.
I'll sit back, watch and learn from here...






Cheers
Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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