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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Mannlicher Discussion forum & Archive

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lancaster
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Reged: 06/05/08
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M 88 sporting rifle from british india
#176179 - 25/02/11 04:45 AM

Holt has an M 88 sporter now in the current auction. the rifle comes with a case from Manton & Company and as the final proof that this really was a weapon for the british market it has express sights. too bad Holt's did not bring a photo of the complete rifle.

Sale A1052 Lot 1102

A. HARTMAN & CO.
A 7x57MM 'GEWEHR MODEL '88' BOLT-ACTION SPORTING RIFLE, serial no. 24895,
22 5/8in. octagonal nitro barrel with open sights and folding leaf sights marked 80, 100, 200 and 300, ramp-mounted bead foresight, barrel engraved 'A. HARTMAN & CO. GERMAN MAUSER MOD. 88 CAL 7MM', split bridge receiver with matted receiver ring, recoil block, charger clip, set triggers, retaining some colour-hardening, semi-pistolgrip stock with sling swivels, 1313 7/8in. pull including steel buttplate, in a full length canvas rifle case with Manton & Company trade label
Estimate £500-700 http://auctions.holtsauctioneers.com/asp...p;t=636592&

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

Edited by CptCurl (28/02/11 10:29 AM)

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27006
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Re: M 88 sporting rifle from british india [Re: lancaster]
#176180 - 25/02/11 04:48 AM

sweet!

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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88MauSporter
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Reged: 06/06/07
Posts: 530
Loc: Alaska / Texas

Re: M 88 sporting rifle from british india [Re: DarylS]
#176204 - 25/02/11 05:15 PM

It looks like mine, but I am excited by the 7x57, instead of my 7.8x57. Note the magazine floor plate to
open and drop out the empy mannicher packet clip. My 88 is also nicely case hardened on th lower magazine and metal. I wish I could see the sights. British style express sights would be great.
I just today received back my 1888 with the claw bases, having rings and scope fitted at Champlin. They fit it to my original claw bases and the rear lever set for the rear ring base. I am very pleased. This was done by JJ Paredoux at Champlin arms in OK. Can't wait to shoot this one with the new scope.

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"A hunter should not use a rifle that will kill an animal when everthing goes right; you should use one that will do the job when everything goes wrong." 88MauSporter

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lancaster
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Re: M 88 sporting rifle from british india [Re: 88MauSporter]
#176208 - 25/02/11 06:41 PM

It would be good if you could show pictures of the "new" rifle

I have Holt's sent an e-mail and asked whether they have a picture showing the complete weapon.
that M 88 sporter in the Belgian Congo and in Dutch east india were used is shown but this is the first weapon of British origin I found.
The magazine floorplate is a clever solution to the clip not to lose in the jungle. I have the same variant also on my 9x57 Mauser. Today still more valuable than 100 years ago.

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

Edited by CptCurl (28/02/11 10:29 AM)

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lancaster
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Re: M 88 sporting rifle from british india [Re: lancaster]
#176213 - 25/02/11 11:14 PM

that was fast, Holt was kind enough to send me more pictures
Unfortunately, no English Express sights on the rifle but is otherwise very nice piece in typical Suhler quality.

German Mauser .M 88, did not see this before

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

Edited by CptCurl (28/02/11 10:31 AM)

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dons
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Reged: 18/08/07
Posts: 431
Loc: Essex

Re: M 88 sporting rifle from british india [Re: lancaster]
#176240 - 26/02/11 07:48 AM

I'm somewhat surprised to see this rifle marked "German Mauser Mod. 88" since Mauser had nothing to do with the design or manufacture of the Commission 88.

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kuduae
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Reged: 13/01/10
Posts: 1792
Loc: middle of Germany

Re: M 88 sporting rifle from british india [Re: dons]
#176255 - 27/02/11 12:26 AM

Quote:

I'm somewhat surprised to see this rifle marked "German Mauser Mod. 88" since Mauser had nothing to do with the design or manufacture of the Commission 88.

Since the Mauser M71 was adopted by the German army, any turn-bolt actioned rifle was apt to be called a "Mauser" in Germany. Even pre-WW1 catalogs, f.i. AKAH 1909, Stukenbrok 1910 and Burgsmüller 1910 called the M88 action a "Mauser"
Burgsmüller:

Hartman was a wholesaler and export house based in Hamburg, with a branch in Bremen too. Maybe they had the inscription added for advertizement bragging.

Edited by CptCurl (28/02/11 10:31 AM)

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dons
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Re: M 88 sporting rifle from british india [Re: kuduae]
#176256 - 27/02/11 01:09 AM

Thanks Axel, never saw this marking before. Learn something new every day.

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DarylS
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Re: M 88 sporting rifle from british india [Re: dons]
#176257 - 27/02/11 02:51 AM

Lancaster, those RP bullets in your 9x57 ammo stand out. so you shoot them as-is, or size them down?

Thanks for the pictures - great! I wasn't sure how that mag plate worked.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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lancaster
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Re: M 88 sporting rifle from british india [Re: DarylS]
#176264 - 27/02/11 06:02 AM

the RP 180 grains hollow point bullet is .357 and my barrel slug out as .3565 so they work just fine.

one must distinguish the following terms:

System Mauser

Original System Mauser

Original Mauser

Mauser system means this is build how a Mauser system
Original system means an original Mauser system has been used in weapon of another manufacturer
Original Mauser means that the weapon was built entirely by Mauser

The question is whether the Commissions M 88 rifle is a mauser system or not.The army's rifle commission has not startet at that time from zero! They actually had the Mauser M 71 and M71/84 as a basis. the magazine with the en-block clip was a Mannlicher design but the Bolt and the receiver is based on the M 71. Let's look at these pictures:

Jägerrifle M 71

carbine M 88

M 93/ Romanian Mannlicher sporter

Mannlicher Schoenauer

You see that the rear end of the bolt with the bolt sleeve and the wing safety was never changed. the diffenece is how the bolt is looking. The M 71 action included only a bolt guide rib as its single locking lug. because of the black powder pressure its safe to locking only forward of the receiving bridge.
The technical leap for space age nitro powder called here a change.
The M 88 bolt have a seperate but rotating bolt head with two locking lugs to stand the higher pressure but if compare them you will see that its allways the old Mauser 71 bolt.

German repeating stalking rifle system Mauser, not realy wrong in my eye's

stalking rifle's system Mauser, like the other one's follow here copy's from M 71 action with different measurments for smaller cartridges

target rifle's system Mauser

but target rifle system Martini

and here target rifle system original Haenel Aydt - the rifle was build from another maker with an original C.G. Haenel action

cheap "Mauser" garden rifle's and gun's, not exact copys's

rimfire rifle system Mauser, "Mauserlein" means little Mauser

original mauser made rimfire rifle's

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

Edited by CptCurl (28/02/11 10:32 AM)

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NitroX
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Re: M 88 sporting rifle from british india [Re: lancaster]
#176313 - 28/02/11 04:27 PM

Very nice.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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Carpetsahib
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Reged: 29/04/07
Posts: 435
Loc: Western NC

Re: M 88 sporting rifle from british india [Re: lancaster]
#176361 - 01/03/11 12:44 AM

A similar trapdoor could be installed on a Mannlicher M95. It would probably be more serviceable than Duct Tape!

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