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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Mannlicher Discussion forum & Archive

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kuduae
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Reged: 13/01/10
Posts: 1792
Loc: middle of Germany
Re: No Lee Speed! [Re: lancaster]
      #171970 - 24/11/10 07:17 AM

Quote:

Is it sure that he use a Mannlicher M 95? this rifle was available as a sporter before WW 1 but I would not expect to find it outside of the KuK empire. or was it a Mannlicher Schoenauer Rifle in 8x56 MS?



I don't know.His book covers a time span from 1903. If he used an 8mm only later, I think it's an 8x56 Mannlicher-Schoenauer, introduced 1908. But remember, Kalman Kittenberger was a citizen of the K&K empire up to 1918, then a Hungarian.

Edited by kuduae (24/11/10 08:06 AM)


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lancaster
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Reged: 06/05/08
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Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...
Re: No Lee Speed! [Re: kuduae]
      #172355 - 30/11/10 06:34 AM

there is a 375 NE double rifle on egun from Wilkinson, Pall Mall London
http://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=3044198
it seems that they realy exist then but its hard to find any informations about it












--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

Edited by CptCurl (30/11/10 09:49 PM)


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lancaster
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Re: No Lee Speed! [Re: lancaster]
      #208396 - 15/05/12 05:20 AM

some weeks ago AlanD send my a pm about my mannlicher :" I have read your post of 15 April 2010 regarding the above rifle. I dont know if you have noticed but the rifle has a British militry proof mark of crossed pennents on the top of the magazine well.
I have seen two other sporting rifles in 6.5mm with this mark."

no, I dont had notice this before, its here side by side with the romanian eagle.






iirc Steyr sold 5000 rifles M 1892 to Romania in 1892 for trials but they made much more barreled actions than this 5000. in the end the M 1892 was developt into the M 1893 for the romanian army and Steyr sold the barreled actions to various gunmakers in britain. all of this actions have the eagle mark and here my rifle become uncommon.

again AlanD:
"Yours is the third sporting rifle I have seen with this British
military ordnance proof mark of crossed pennants. I enclose pictures
of a Jeffrey rifle and scope, in 6.5mm MS calibre. The other rifle
was a Mannlicher retailed by Frazer, also in 6.5MS but without a scope.

These rifles are not recorder in any British references at the
National archives in London. Exactly what purpose they were put to
is unknown, but possibly it may have been for sniping in WW1, before
the issue of officially converted Lee Enfield rifles, however this
is only conjecture. I am trying to do some research on these rifles,
the first step being to find out who the rifle was sold to, by the
gun maker, when it was first made. It may have been purchased second
hand by the War Office or Ministry of Munitions, in which case it
will be virtually impossible to find a record of this . The rifles
would not have been issued to ordinary troops who were short of Lee
Enfield's as supply of ammunition would have been too great a
problem, they would
have been purchased for some specific purpose."


and now:

"Hello

I have heard back from Richard Milner regarding your rifle. Here is what he says the Wilkinson records say.


"Wilkinson number 1458 is recorded as a .375 Sporting Mannlicher Rifle it came from Charles Osborne & Co, price was £8-13-0 and was sold to a F C Carter, date is 17 May 1905, not sure if this is the purchase date or the sales date to Carter.
Richard"



So it looks as if your rifle was shipped the UK as a .375 calibre rifle. How it ended up with a military proof remains a mystery. If it did see military service it must have been purchased second hand at some point.

Regards
Alan"

Edited by CptCurl (18/11/12 11:09 PM)


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Sarg
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Reged: 20/01/07
Posts: 1365
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Re: No Lee Speed! [Re: lancaster]
      #208435 - 16/05/12 08:58 AM

I think I have a pic some where of a mannlicher with the same mark in the same place !

Will have a look & post, if you like ?

My Bad, it is a early pic of yours LoL !

Edited by Sarg (16/05/12 01:09 PM)


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mehulkamdar
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Reged: 09/01/04
Posts: 3688
Loc: State of Ill-Annoy USA.
Re: No Lee Speed! [Re: Sarg]
      #208528 - 18/05/12 09:44 AM

Thank you, Lancaster, for yet another rare and beautiful old rifle. It is even better that we have this speculation here about how it came to be built, where it may have been used, and how it eventually traveled from the gunmaker to your gunsafe. What a magnificent journey!

Thank you again and do keep the posts coming!

--------------------
The Ark was made by amateurs. Experts built the Titanic.

Mehul Kamdar


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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
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Re: No Lee Speed! [Re: lancaster]
      #208551 - 18/05/12 10:15 PM

Lancaster,

interesting post and lovely interesting old rifle.

Does the scope have to be removed to load the clips or is it offset enough?

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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lancaster
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Reged: 06/05/08
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Re: No Lee Speed! [Re: NitroX]
      #208565 - 19/05/12 03:11 AM

its not possible to load the clip with the scope. maybe I should change the side mount by cuting and welding the parts together for bringing the scope more on the side. have an damaged clip that could be made into a 3 round clip . such a 3 round clip looks promising to me would fit under the scope and work in the magazin.

unfortunately there isn't enough time

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians


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Sarg
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Reged: 20/01/07
Posts: 1365
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Re: No Lee Speed! [Re: lancaster]
      #208600 - 19/05/12 11:17 PM

Ok, I saw today a Steyr M92 marked 1893 with the same markings as your rifle, it is in 6.5X53R , marked Tisdalls - Wellington & Christchurch , that was/is a large sporting goods store in New Zealand so may have been made for them, I might get this rifle so I will report back if/when I get it !

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tinker
.416 member


Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada
Re: No Lee Speed! [Re: Sarg]
      #208604 - 19/05/12 11:45 PM

*Might..?*


I don't know how you could resist!





Cheers
Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...


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Sarg
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Reged: 20/01/07
Posts: 1365
Loc: Nil
Re: No Lee Speed! [Re: tinker]
      #208645 - 20/05/12 10:39 AM

Tinker

MONEY is the biggy, it is also refinished (by buffing wheel !!!!) stock broken & badly repaired through the neck
But barrel is good, he also paid a lot for it when he got it .

The chap also has odd Lee Speed, Snider 577 Sporter (great) nice old Mauser 8X57, Martini 22Lr by Pape, Mauser 22 , Brno Model 1 22 & Brno 22 Hornet !

I also think I'm a Gunaholic & may need my head read LoL !

I then found a A&N M95 6.5 in great condition & with the grip cap stock that Im looking for, still I need one in 375 2 1/2in & 303 Brit !


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AlanD
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Reged: 14/12/08
Posts: 55
Loc: NSW Australia
Re: No Lee Speed! [Re: Sarg]
      #208648 - 20/05/12 11:10 AM

Hello Sarg. I used to work for Tisdall's in Christchurch in the mid 1970's, in fact it was my first job, working behind the gun counter.The fact that the rifle is marked to the firm in New Zealand, raises another question as to how a sporting rifle that was destined for export to New Zealand ended up with the British military crossed pennants proof mark.

Any information you can gather on this rifle, especially photos if possible, would be of great interest to me. If you decide to pass on the rifle perhaps you could let me know which shop it is in as I would be intested in this rifle myself.

Out of interest I reseaching a book which will be titled, " British Military Secondary Issue Small Arms 1920-1980", hence my interst in these odd ball military rifles.

Regards

Alan David
Sydney


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lancaster
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Reged: 06/05/08
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Re: No Lee Speed! [Re: AlanD]
      #208658 - 20/05/12 09:02 PM

alan, just an idea - four rifles with no other connection than this stamp! could it be that the british army bought a small lot of mannlicher rifle's for a trial after 1892 stamp them and resell the rifles after the trial to british gunmaker where the rifles were sporterized?

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians


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Rule303
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Reged: 05/07/09
Posts: 5061
Loc: Woodford Qld
Re: No Lee Speed! [Re: lancaster]
      #208700 - 21/05/12 05:05 PM

Interesting thread.

I seem to remember reading that the british military used 375's during WW1. They were given to snipers to defeat the steel plates german snipers would use to protect themselves. The 375's came from several different makers and were iether biught by the Military or privately. That is if I remember the article correctly.

As for NZ rifles having the British proof marks it is possible that a NZ company bought them from surplus stocks or the NZ govt might of required all firearms comming into NZ from Europe to be proof tested in Great Britian. This is just speculation on my part.


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kuduae
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Reged: 13/01/10
Posts: 1792
Loc: middle of Germany
Re: No Lee Speed! [Re: Rule303]
      #208767 - 23/05/12 01:53 AM

Quote:

I seem to remember reading that the british military used 375's during WW1. They were given to snipers to defeat the steel plates german snipers would use to protect themselves. The 375's came from several different makers and were iether biught by the Military or privately. That is if I remember the article correctly.



In WW1 both sides used steel plates, at first not to protect snipers but the dreaded machine guns that made any assault impossible. The British tried brute force to smash these plates, sporting rifles from .375 up. Jeffery even supplied a few single shots in .600NE to the Royal Navy Marines to do the job. The Germans instead employed voluntered 8x57 scoped sporting rifles to hit the small apertures in the Allied steel plates. One of these now rare rifles is discussed here: http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat....true#Post208761


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lancaster
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Reged: 06/05/08
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Re: No Lee Speed! [Re: kuduae]
      #224794 - 05/02/13 03:43 PM

found a pic of a Webley Mannlicher in .375 Flanged and it looks like in the catalog

http://home.earthlink.net/~frey2000/id1.html



--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

Edited by CptCurl (04/06/13 09:19 PM)


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