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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Mannlicher Discussion forum & Archive
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kcordell
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Mannlicher 8x60 Magnum Question
      #122450 - 28/12/08 02:36 AM

Hi,

Curious if anyone has any commentary on the 8x60 Magnum. I am considering taking my 1924 in the field, with the original scope to see how she does.

Thanks,

KC









Edited by CptCurl (17/01/10 01:22 AM)

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pjaln
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Re: Mannlicher 8x60 Magnum Question [Re: kcordell]
      #122482 - 28/12/08 10:51 AM

great cartridge ,it has been getting a lot of attention here . do a search something will come up....paul

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m4220
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Re: Mannlicher 8x60 Magnum Question [Re: kcordell]
      #122487 - 28/12/08 01:03 PM

Hi KC,

See the thread we had going on this cartridge, "8x60 NORMAL vs 8x60S", Pm me with you e-mail address and I will forward you some pic's of various boxes of 8x60 & 8x60S & the only box I have ever seen labeled as 8x60S MAGNUM.

m4220

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9.3x57
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Re: Mannlicher 8x60 Magnum Question [Re: m4220]
      #122488 - 28/12/08 01:08 PM

More pics!!

And a report on "field service", too!!

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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grandveneur
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Re: Mannlicher 8x60 Magnum Question [Re: kcordell]
      #122506 - 28/12/08 09:59 PM

I think we all have a lot of commentary! A nice rifle and medium 8mm cartridges are very good for hunting medium game at medium range. Just a commentary about the "8x60S Magnum-Bombe".On paper a 12g bullet 890m/s ,but with a barrel of 72cm! And a lot of pressure!!! In my opinion the difference between the 8x57IS, the 8x60S and the 8x60S Magnum-Bombe are not big and no relevant in the field when you use a standart rifle.

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kcordell
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Re: Mannlicher 8x60 Magnum Question [Re: grandveneur]
      #122614 - 30/12/08 05:32 AM

I am seriously bummed right now. I strongly suspect that my 1924 MS 8x60S is .318 and checked the ammo I have (I had Buffalo Arms reload two boxes for me to test) is .323. I have inherited a bunch of reloading tools and dies (not 8MM) but don't have knowledge on the how to yet. So I guess the question is, can I pull the .323 out and re-seat a .318?

Thanks in advance... Also, Happy NEW YEAR!

Best, KC

Edited by kcordell (30/12/08 05:33 AM)

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xausa
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Re: Mannlicher 8x60 Magnum Question [Re: kcordell]
      #122616 - 30/12/08 06:35 AM

I can't tell from the picture of the markings on the receiver ring, but if your rifle is marked 8X60S, then it uses the .323" (Spitzer) bullet. Without the "S" mark, it is most likely a .318" bore.

However, to answer your question, you can indeed pull .323" bullets and substitute the .318" ones, but the case neck will likely need to be resized in order to firmly hold the smaller diameter bullets, which would mean neck sizing with an appropriate die.

Once you have the correct sizing die with the correct expander plug, remove the decapping pin. Then pull the bullets from all the ammunition you want to change bullets in, place the cases with the powder still in them in a loading block to hold them upright, and empty the powder from the first case into a small container.

Resize the empty case and replace it in the loading block. Using a powder funnel, pour the powder from the second case into the first case, then repeat the process with the second case, all the way to the last cartridge, into which you pour the powder from the first case.

You now will have resized and refilled all your cartridge cases, and you can seat the proper bullets in them, first checking the cases with a flashlight or other portable light source to make sure the powder level is the same in all of them.

Be sure that the .318" bullets you replace them with weigh no more than the original .323'" bullets.

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grandveneur
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Re: Mannlicher 8x60 Magnum Question [Re: kcordell]
      #122660 - 31/12/08 02:21 AM

Be carefull! This rifle is not typical for 1924.What you can read on the action is very strange for this time.But dont forget, we all speak about 8mm Mauser caliber and not Mannlicher caliber! The typical 8mm in Austria in this time was the 8x56 M & S ! May be your rifle use a not standartized cartridge! Do you know the origin of this rifle?

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kcordell
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Re: Mannlicher 8x60 Magnum Question [Re: grandveneur]
      #122670 - 31/12/08 09:30 AM

Thanks for the reply. I would guess the origin of the rifle is Austria? It came from a relative who was in WWII who stated it was being used as a sniper rifle during the final battles. That is all I have as he died before I was old enough to appreciate the gun or his service. Somehow it found it's way to my house when his daughter took all of his guns and proceeded to take them to the police department. His other collectibles were in a pile for the salvation army....amazing the stupidity. Fortunately and by chance, another relative who needed to borrow a tool caught her in the nick of time and relieved her of the nuisance.

I have not shot it yet nor have cerrosafed the chamber. Can you elaborate on your comment of it not being a "typical" rifle of the era or a 1924? Maybe it is something else other than a 1924 of which someone informed me.

Here is a better photo for your review.




Also, here is an interesting bit of data that show Mannlicher offering a 8x60 S. I am unsure if this catalog is post war or pre-war?




Edited by CptCurl (17/01/10 01:24 AM)

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windy
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Re: Mannlicher 8x60 Magnum Question [Re: kcordell]
      #122675 - 31/12/08 11:37 AM

Kcordell:
I would seriously doubt your barrel is a .318; by 1924 there were few new rifles being made in that caliber--even the famous Brit .318 Nitro, which, of course, shot a .330 projectile. My own 8x56MS 1908 Mannlicher is a true .323; the old Western 200gr RNSP's, which are the only commercial loads I ever had for it, miked at about .3215. It's not hard to tell if you have a micrometer (and if you don't, you'll soon need one anyway); and a plastic or wooden mallet (don't want to damage the crown of the barrel, you see). First, remove the bolt and the scope. Next, simply find a .36 to .40 round ball (one of your muzzleloading friends should have one, or you can take a larger one and beat it slightly oblong, or use a pear-shaped sinker from the local tackle shop)-- and drive it down the muzzle. A small piece of wooden dowel about 1/4 to 3/8" in diameter will help you get it down flush with the crown. Now drive it a bit further, if you can; sometimes bores are a bit looser just at the muzzle from cleaning-rod wear; I like to go about an inch deep. Then, with a cleaning rod, from the receiver end, tap the slug out onto a towel or other soft spot, measure it carefully at its widest diameter with the micrometer (you'll be measuring from groove to groove in the bore by measuring land to land on the slug) and voila! You've slugged and miked your barrel.
Oh, yes; now you'll want to clean the bore with a decent bore solvent. If this seems rather rough treatment, just think how you'd shudder if someone else, who didn't love it, did the same thing with a bigger hammer. If you've done this right, and the rifling has opposing grooves, you'll be as certain as the gunsmith, and not inclined to fudge the numbers for liability's sake. I'm guessing you'll read from .323 to .3245; don't worry even if it's .3255 or so, as jacketed slugs can be spun quite consistently from a slighty oversized bore.
Good Hunting! And mind yer topknot!
windy

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xausa
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Re: Mannlicher 8x60 Magnum Question [Re: windy]
      #122682 - 31/12/08 02:11 PM

I'm sorry to say that my Sauer drilling, made in 1939, is a 8X57IR with (of course) a .318" bore. Why this would have been the case at that late date escapes me.

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kcordell
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Re: Mannlicher 8x60 Magnum Question [Re: xausa]
      #122685 - 31/12/08 02:40 PM

Hmmm... I have a Krieghoff drilling made in the mid 1930s in .318 as well (marked 7,7 / 57). When I acquired it, the previous owner graciously include 2 boxes of 8x57JS (.323) but mentioned that he only fired 3 rounds through it for test and was not thrilled with it. It shoots very accurately and is rather pleasantly with S&B JR rounds.

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fuhrmann
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Re: Mannlicher 8x60 Magnum Question [Re: kcordell]
      #122698 - 31/12/08 09:29 PM

Before WWII, most German hunting rifles used the "J" bore! "S" barrels were in use, too, but to a lesser extent.
Uniform marking of barrels and ammunition was only introduced after ca. 1939.
By that time it was also decided that the "J" bore shall become obsolete.

Fuhrmann

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fuhrmann
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Re: Mannlicher 8x60 Magnum Question [Re: windy]
      #122700 - 31/12/08 09:36 PM

kcordell,

this catalog is clearly "postwar" - look at the US calibers, e.g. .243 Win.
By that time, the "J" bore was phased out in Europe.

Your rifle was made in the 1920s, marked 8x60 Magnum.
It is possible that the term "Magnum" also implied an "S" barrel - but personally I would not trust this.
The safest and easiest way is to slug the bore and measure what you have.

Fuhrmann

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grandveneur
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Re: Mannlicher 8x60 Magnum Question [Re: kcordell]
      #122720 - 01/01/09 01:06 AM

"Made in Austria" on a German/Austrian rifle used during the WWII ? The catalog is post-war because you can read 257WM and 458 Winch.Mag.!

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grandveneur
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Re: Mannlicher 8x60 Magnum Question [Re: fuhrmann]
      #122722 - 01/01/09 01:22 AM

That's right, DWM Mauser Kaliber 8x60 Magnum have only "S" barrels! But for Austrian rifle, i dont know.

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fuhrmann
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Re: Mannlicher 8x60 Magnum Question [Re: grandveneur]
      #122731 - 01/01/09 01:47 AM

Quote:

"Made in Austria" on a German/Austrian rifle used during the WWII ? The catalog is post-war because you can read 257WM and 458 Winch.Mag.!



Production date is probably before 1938.
Proof marks should tell more.

Fuhrmann

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grandveneur
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Re: Mannlicher 8x60 Magnum Question [Re: fuhrmann]
      #122734 - 01/01/09 01:56 AM

It's possible,may be a export/custom rifle.

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m4220
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Re: Mannlicher 8x60 Magnum Question [Re: grandveneur]
      #122738 - 01/01/09 02:04 AM

Grandveneur,

I beg to differ as I have 6 boxes (5 RWS sealed & 1 box IWK) all factory loaded with .318 bullets, if you would like pictures send your e-mail address.

m4220

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Collath_500BPE
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Re: Mannlicher 8x60 Magnum Question [Re: kcordell]
      #123073 - 05/01/09 10:05 PM

Hello kcordell,
its an original M.Sch.rifle in 8x60 S ( .323 )
There is no possibility to find a M.Sch.rifle stamped Magnum in .318 caliber.I can guarantee you 110 percent that
worldwide no original rifle in .318 exist.
Trust an old Mannlicher "FAN"
Johann from Austria

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Collath_500BPE
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Re: Mannlicher 8x60 Magnum Question [Re: kcordell]
      #123075 - 05/01/09 10:20 PM

Hi kcordell,
here are some pics of my 8x60 Magnum rifle.
regards Johann







Edited by CptCurl (17/01/10 01:26 AM)

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mehulkamdar
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Re: Mannlicher 8x60 Magnum Question [Re: Collath_500BPE]
      #123097 - 06/01/09 03:18 AM

KC / Johann,

Beautiful rifles as is to be expected of MAnnlichers.

Congratulations, gentlemen!

--------------------
The Ark was made by amateurs. Experts built the Titanic.

Mehul Kamdar

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kcordell
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Re: Mannlicher 8x60 Magnum Question [Re: mehulkamdar]
      #123106 - 06/01/09 04:07 AM

Gentlemen,

Thank you for your replies and valuable information. Beautiful rifle above Sir!

I will fill in more when I get to the range and shoot.

Any more data is appreciated.

Many thanks,

KC

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kuduae
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Re: Mannlicher 8x60 Magnum Question [Re: kcordell]
      #150857 - 17/01/10 12:54 AM

"8x60 MAGNUM" simply was the Austrian designation of the German 8x60S, .323" bullet. In the 1950s RWS cartridge boxes had both designations, see photo: [url=http://i1018.photobucket.com/albums/af303/kuduae/8x60S2.jpg]
The German army went to the .323" diameter bullet in 1904 with the introduction of the "Spitzgeschosspatrone" = pointed bullet cartridge, hence the monicker "S". The "I" = .318" diameter remained popular in Germany as the "civilian" diameter until WW2.
The Austrians, on the other hand, used the .323" diameter from the start, at least since their M95 8x50R Mannlicher aka .315 Mannlicher(for the bore diameter) aka .315 IOF (Indian Ordinance Factories) and the M1908 8x56 Mannlicher-Schoenauer. As they never used pointed bullets in .323" diameter in their military cartridges, they did not use the "S" monicker either. Instead, when they introduced the 8x60 in the 1925 Mannlicher-Schoenauer, they used their regular .323" diameter exclusively. As ballistics were vastly improved upon their "standard" 8x50R or 8x56M-S, they applied the "MAGNUM" name.

Edited by kuduae (17/01/10 08:33 AM)

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Rothhammer1
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Re: Mannlicher 8x60 Magnum Question [Re: kuduae]
      #372254 - 13/12/22 12:57 AM

Stoeger (US) referred to the long action MS built post M1924 and pre M1950 as 'High Velocity'.
Modern collectors tend to refer to them as 'M1925'.

From the 1939 Stoeger Catalog:




From same catalog, relevant to some of the above replies but not to 8X60:



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Citizen of the Cherokee Nation

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