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Nakihunter
.375 member

Reged: 13/10/07
Posts: 588
Loc: New Zealand

Army & Navy 450
#111197 - 06/08/08 09:34 AM

This is Christoph Mortier's rifle & he will post more info on it

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Always shoot through the target & not just at it.

Edited by DRarchive (06/08/08 11:26 AM)

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Huvius
.416 member

Reged: 04/11/07
Posts: 3556
Loc: Colorado

Re: Army & Navy 450 [Re: Nakihunter]
#111242 - 07/08/08 03:30 AM

Nice looking boxlock!
I really like the attention to detail in the fences (arcaded acanthus?) and the forend wood just ahead of the forend iron - nice touches. Classic lines overall as well...
Interested in how the bore is. The extractor wear from the strikers/pins looks excessive and the pitting on these worn surfaces is strange. Looks to be a nice exterior restoration though and the engraving is looking to be quite nice.

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He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.

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400NitroExpress
.400 member

Reged: 26/11/03
Posts: 1154
Loc: Lone Star State

Re: Army & Navy 450 [Re: Huvius]
#111243 - 07/08/08 03:59 AM

Quote:

I really like the attention to detail in the fences (arcaded acanthus?) and the forend wood just ahead of the forend iron - nice touches.

Standard on Webley's top grade A & W models, which is what this rifle is. You'll see it illustrated on page 21 of the Webley 1914 catalogue in the link just above this string. This is an older BPE, probably made before the dedicated Cordite rifle action - the A & W "C" (Cordite) model shown on page 28 - was introduced.

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"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

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Anonymous
Unregistered

Re: Army & Navy 450 [Re: Nakihunter]
#115533 - 26/09/08 01:05 AM

Lovely rifle!

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rigbymauser
.400 member

Reged: 15/05/05
Posts: 1972
Loc: Denmark

Re: Army & Navy 450 [Re: ]
#115628 - 27/09/08 06:12 AM

Fine rifle indeed!!

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470evans
.333 member

Reged: 30/03/05
Posts: 278
Loc: Texas, USA

Re: Army & Navy 450 [Re: rigbymauser]
#115767 - 28/09/08 10:33 PM

Beautiful rifle, I'd be proud to have that one!

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armbar
.300 member

Reged: 25/05/05
Posts: 201
Loc: So Cal USA

Re: Army & Navy 450 [Re: 470evans]
#118480 - 07/11/08 02:27 PM

Hey Christoph!

Let's hear about it!

Armbar.

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Christopher
.224 member

Reged: 29/05/08
Posts: 17
Loc: Nancy, FRANCE

Re: Army & Navy 450 [Re: armbar]
#118508 - 07/11/08 11:52 PM

Well,

The rifle, even if restored in his finish, is absolutely perfect in the bores and action. The woodstock is also gorgeous. The only problem for me is that it is a .450 BP and not a .450NE (as it was sold for!). So I said goodbye to my dreams of hunting elephant and buffalo with and old english double rifle.

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grandveneur
.400 member

Reged: 21/09/08
Posts: 1356
Loc: France / Germany

Re: Army & Navy 450 [Re: Christopher]
#118535 - 08/11/08 10:16 AM

A nice rifle, but a 450BPE is not a caliber for hunting big game! But don't say good bye your dreams! The stamps allowed the use of nitro loads for BPE! 350gr.SP bullets are marginal for buffalo hunting, but by heavy barrels and flat grooves the use of reduced 450NE loads is may be possible, and enough, for buffalos at short range!-----Proof house St-Etienne?

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Christopher
.224 member

Reged: 29/05/08
Posts: 17
Loc: Nancy, FRANCE

Re: Army & Navy 450 [Re: grandveneur]
#118571 - 08/11/08 09:45 PM

Thanks Grandveneur!

We could speak french (as I live in Nancy, not too far from you), but our friends on the forum could have understanding problems. Anyhow, do you have nitro for black load to try? I have no idea of the kind of french powder I could use with a bullet weight ranging from 350 to 400 gr.
By the way, and this question is ask to everyone on the forum, do you know if Holland and Holland made double rifle for the .475 N°2 caliber? Have heard of that kind of rifle for sale and I wonder.

Thanks a lot,

Chris

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grandveneur
.400 member

Reged: 21/09/08
Posts: 1356
Loc: France / Germany

Re: Army & Navy 450 [Re: Christopher]
#118573 - 08/11/08 10:55 PM

On the forum we have to use english ! On private basis we can speak french together! OK! In a first time slug the barrels : caliber must be .458 inch.! In a second time check the chambers : straight and 3.25 inch. long! Use only 350gr.SP bullets cal.458 special for nitro loads for BPE from Woodleigh! Today there are not loading data fot this purpose, but originaly this cartridge was loaded with 55gr. of Cordite. I think 50gr. TU3000 is a safe starting load, and you need a filler, better a wad like in a shotgun cartridge! But ATTENTION!!! YOU MUST BE A EXPERIMENTED RELOADER AND YOU DO THAT UNDER YOUR RESPONSABILITY! WE DON'T HAVE PRESSURE BARRELS, THE PRESSURE INCREASE RAPIDILY IN THIS CARTRIDGES!!! Blackpowder reloads are not a problem.

The .475 caliber is a hash out of standartisation! Ammunition is a big problem! Better you buy a 470NE or a 500NE!

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grandveneur
.400 member

Reged: 21/09/08
Posts: 1356
Loc: France / Germany

Re: Army & Navy 450 [Re: grandveneur]
#118582 - 09/11/08 04:41 AM

It's possible to buy ammunition 450 nitro for BPE by Kynoch ( Kynamco limited ) and may be by Wolfgang Romey in Germany! But i think a little bit expensive! In all cases, slug the barrels and check the chambers! There are not reduced factory loads for Nitro express cartridges!

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herrdoktor
.275 member

Reged: 03/08/07
Posts: 85
Loc: Spain

Re: Army & Navy 450 [Re: grandveneur]
#118604 - 09/11/08 10:17 PM

Hello, Christofer:
A really nice double! It will be interesting to know something about the type of rifling. You can find some loads for the 450 BPE in the Graeme Wright book, and in some old articles by Ross Seyfried.
I have send a PM to you with some charges I use in my 450 BPE.

Antonio,

Madrid, Spain.

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Birdhunter50
.375 member

Reged: 03/06/07
Posts: 815
Loc: Iowa,U.S.A.

Re: Army & Navy 450 [Re: Huvius]
#118617 - 10/11/08 02:05 AM

Huvius,
While there is some corrosion on the extractor, I don't believe the grooves in it are caused from wear. Those were designed into the guns' extractor to help push back the firing pins on opening the gun. I suspect the corrosion was caused by corrosive primer fowling mixing with moisture and lack of proper cleaning after firing the gun. The old time primers were very corrosive indeed. Add in a little water and you have acid. I also don't think this was refinished. I would say that all those pretty colors are original, but with todays craftsmanship by a few professionals, it is very hard to tell, in some cases. All in all, it is a very nice gun, one I would be proud to own! Bob H.

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tinker
.416 member

Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada

Re: Army & Navy 450 [Re: Birdhunter50]
#118619 - 10/11/08 02:25 AM

What does this rifle weigh?

It looks very nice!

--Tinker

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--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--

"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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Christopher
.224 member

Reged: 29/05/08
Posts: 17
Loc: Nancy, FRANCE

Re: Army & Navy 450 [Re: tinker]
#118621 - 10/11/08 03:08 AM

Hello Tinker,

The rifle weights around 9 lbs.

Thanks for your interest in that rifle.

Chris

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DarylS
.700 member

Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27006
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...

Re: Army & Navy 450 [Re: Christopher]
#118624 - 10/11/08 04:55 AM

There's a fellow who lives about 3 minutes from my house, who does exquisite colour case hardening - just like this action has.

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Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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