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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Rifles
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Woodbeef
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Loc: Badlands of Alberta
358 Win.....Good Choice or Dog?
      #69009 - 07/01/07 01:00 PM

Is the 358 Win a good choice for North American game or just a dog as some claim?

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BFaucett
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Re: 358 Win.....Good Choice or Dog? [Re: Woodbeef]
      #69013 - 07/01/07 02:14 PM

I have no experience with the .358 Winchester. I do own a .35 Whelen and a 9.3x62 which are very similar to the .358 Win. I haven't hunted with my .35 Whelen yet but I have taken some plains game in South Africa with my 9.3x62 and it worked great (handload: 286 gr bullet at 2390 fps).

Personally, I think cartridges such as the .358 Win, .35 Whelen, and 9.3x62 are too often overlooked and underrated by shooters/hunters in North America. I guess the moderate velocities of these cartridges just don't appeal to many hunters/shooters.

BTW, the ol' 9x57 Mauser (.35 caliber) enjoyed a good reputation and the .358 Winchester has almost identical ballistics.

Some articles that you may enjoy:

The Great .358
This heavyweight member of the .308 family hits like a truck and shoots flat enough for most real-world hunting situations.
By Craig Boddington
http://www.gunsandammomag.com/gun_columns/notes/notes0404_0426/

The 9x57 Mauser
http://www.african-hunter.com/9x57_mauser.htm

Cheers!
-Bob F.

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luv2safari
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Re: 358 Win.....Good Choice or Dog? [Re: Woodbeef]
      #69020 - 07/01/07 02:51 PM

Woody...

A good friend hunts Montana elk with his Browning BLR in 358 Win and loves the round. He says it kills well and is a fast handling rifle in deep woods. He limits shots to 250 yards. It would make a great moose rifle.

I have had excellent results with my 35 Whalen and see no real difference between the two.

--------------------
Hunt with Class and Classics

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475Guy
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Re: 358 Win.....Good Choice or Dog? [Re: luv2safari]
      #69025 - 07/01/07 05:29 PM

Like L2S said. A lot of those older rounds have a definite niche in the shooting and hunting scheme of things. You either like 'em or not, nada mas.

--------------------
Lo do they call to me,
They bid me take my place among
them in the Halls of Valhalla,
Where the brave may live forever.

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blackberry9
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Re: 358 Win.....Good Choice or Dog? [Re: 475Guy]
      #69037 - 08/01/07 12:01 AM

Hallo Woodbeef:

an aquaintance of me had shot the flanged version of the .358Win., the .356.Win. for years in a Browning or Marlin lever-action rifle. He was very satisfied about the effect of the 200 or 225gr. Winchester Silver-tip buillet for wild-boars.
I shoot since 12 years the old 9x57Mauser, the ballistics with the lighter buillets are compairable with the ballistic of the .358Win., just the Win. needs a lot of pressure more to reach the same balistic facts.
Difficult will it be, when you will shoot heavier buillets than 225gr. The case-capacity of the .358Win. is very low for a cartrige with such a big diameter. Heavier and longer buillets, like the 250gr. or heavier reduced the powder-space.
180-225gr. are the ideal buillet-weights. With this buillets you can shoot all medium-size games on the northern half-globe, and all thin skinned games in Africa too, when you donīt have to shoot over 200yds distances.
For me, the .358Win, also the 9x57 and the .35Whelen are one of the best medium-size calibres ever made.

regards
Manolito
(friend of .350 cal.)

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DarylS
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Re: 358 Win.....Good Choice or Dog? [Re: Woodbeef]
      #69203 - 10/01/07 07:19 AM

Limited to about 250 yards (as most people should be) the .358 Winchester is one of the better big game cartridges. With today's great bullets, it is even better than previously. No flies on this one.
: I've been kicking myself ever since I gave my brother my .356 Winchester for his guiding, back-up gun. With 250gr. Hornady's at 2,180fps from it's 20" barrel, it is a moose thumper supreme. No moose has taken more than 3 steps after impact, something rarely seen with supposely more powerful, smaller bore rounds. These moose were previously wounded ones at that. Broadside shots are not normal under these circumstances and the .356 did the job on what Elmer used to call "raking shots". Add another 100fps and you have a 22" barreled .358 Wincester. I should add that H335 is the powder of choice for the 250gr. Most other powders bulk up a bit too much. 46.0gr. is the charge and should also work for the .358, same bullet weight. From thee, you can work as pressure signs indicate. It is quite safe in the model 94 Big bore rifle.
; Compare it's ballistics with some of the old favourites from Africa and you'll see almost identical ballistics from the .33 to .35 calibres.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

Edited by Daryl_S (10/01/07 07:22 AM)

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500grains
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Re: 358 Win.....Good Choice or Dog? [Re: DarylS]
      #69498 - 15/01/07 12:15 PM

I have shot deer and elk with the 358 Win and I felt it lacked killing power with all of the bullets that I tried except for the 225 grain Woodleigh RN. Based on my experience I would not ever use a 250 grain bullet in the 358, and I would try to use a relatively soft bullet or there will be no expansion.

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Rustyzipper
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Re: 358 Win.....Good Choice or Dog? [Re: 500grains]
      #71268 - 12/02/07 03:47 AM

I have shot deer and smaller game with bang flop results. Both out of a Lone Eagle pistol (15" bbl) and a Savage99. Most of those kills were with the 200 gr round nose. I have 275 gr to load for bigger game. Good luck if you try it. I enjoy the extreme flexibility of reloading the .358 caliber. Rusty Zipper

--------------------
NMLRA Life, NRA Annual,DRSS, .......

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DM
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Re: 358 Win.....Good Choice or Dog? [Re: Woodbeef]
      #72936 - 03/03/07 03:23 AM

Quote:

Is the 358 Win a good choice for North American game or just a dog as some claim?



The "best" use for the 358 Win. is for dispatching old "worn out" Valtra's... hee he heee If it will do that, i guess it's good enough for any other job too...

DM

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4seventy
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Re: 358 Win.....Good Choice or Dog? [Re: Woodbeef]
      #73710 - 13/03/07 12:58 AM

Quote:

Is the 358 Win a good choice for North American game or just a dog as some claim?



Don't know about North American game but do know that the .358 Win is a very good cartridge for some Aussie game.
I had a nice lightweight early flatbolt Ruger 77 in .358 and it laid big pigs and brumbys out very nicely indeed.

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9.3x57
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Re: 358 Win.....Good Choice or Dog? [Re: 4seventy]
      #79026 - 20/05/07 11:32 AM

As my name implies, I have a favored cartridge that is a cousin of the .358. I hunch that if you shoot the .358 Win with the right bullets you will wonder why any other thin-skinned gamekilling caliber was invented...

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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NE450No2
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Re: 358 Win.....Good Choice or Dog? [Re: 9.3x57]
      #79178 - 22/05/07 04:40 PM

It is a shame these medium bore cartridges are not more widely used.
I had a 350 Rem mag for a while, it was very effective on deer.

I have killed a lot of game with a 9,3x74R double rife in North America as well as in Zimbabwe.

Of all the cartridges I have used from the 223 to the 450 No2, from game from coyotes to elephant the 9,3x74R has been as effective as any of them.

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allenday
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Re: 358 Win.....Good Choice or Dog? [Re: Woodbeef]
      #79337 - 24/05/07 11:46 PM

Personally, it's not a cartridge that I'm interested in.

If I want to stick with the 30-06 or 308 case, I'll stay with a .308 or smaller calibers.

If I want to use big, heavy .338 or .358 bullets, I want case-capacity that is proportionally bigger, so in this case, I'd much rather have a 338 Win. Mag. or 358 Norma.

AD

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DarylS
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Re: 358 Win.....Good Choice or Dog? [Re: allenday]
      #79389 - 26/05/07 01:54 AM

I suspect the new .338 Federal will gain a small, but faithful following as well. My buddy just bought one for his youngest son, while his wife shoots a BLR in .358 - even to shooting a black bear inside the garage that was eating the dog's food.
: That 51mm case is a good one for a variety of calibres. It would also make a great B.C. moose/bear gun in .375, just to have a few rifles on the same case. 270gr. to 286gr. @ 2,300fps would be just A-OK.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Blacktail53
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Re: 358 Win.....Good Choice or Dog? [Re: DarylS]
      #81331 - 26/06/07 01:24 PM

I love the little .358 Win. I've only used it on one young bull elk so far. Took him with a 225gr Sierra @ about 80 yards or so.
There's lot's of various bullets to use for practice and deer size game. The 225gr Nosler partition would be my first choice as an all-around bullet.
That cartridge is easily good out to 300 yards.
Here's mine, a rebored SAKO Forester. BT53

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DarylS
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Re: 358 Win.....Good Choice or Dog? [Re: Blacktail53]
      #81349 - 27/06/07 03:46 AM

While guiding a bear hunter this last spring, my bro finished off a nice bear with his .356 Winchester, a semi-rimmed cousin to the .358 Winchester. The bear had his left front leg blown almost off by a .300 Wtby, just below the elbow, no other damage to the bear, but he was hurting. The hunter couldn't find it in the sights to finish it off, so he said "you sh/BANG", my bro smacking it through both lungs with his little m94/angle eject. The bear expired in almost instantly. Bang--dead. His load was 46gr. H335, CCI 250 primer and a 250 gr. Hornady. Velocity from the 20" barrel is 2,159fps. That bear died just as previous moose have at from 50 yards to just over 200. Bang -- dead.
: I'd get him to change bullets, but these work so well, he just isn't interested in any changes. It shoots 1-1/2" groups at 100 meters off the bags, not bad for a lever gun.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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9.3x57
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Re: 358 Win.....Good Choice or Dog? [Re: DarylS]
      #81363 - 27/06/07 11:34 AM

Blacktail53:

Was that SAKO originally a .308?

Years ago when I was in the business I sold lots of those SAKO Foresters.

Great rifle!

Who did your reboring?

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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Blacktail53
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Re: 358 Win.....Good Choice or Dog? [Re: 9.3x57]
      #81365 - 27/06/07 11:53 AM

It was a .243 originaly. Had it been a .308 I would have left it alone.
As a .243, the rifle / cartridge seemed a mismatch. A rebore by retired Sprinfield Oregon gunsmith, Bob West cost me a flat $200 and it looks perfect. Cleans easily and shoots well.

It would have a lot more game to it's credit, but I started archery hunting for deer and especialy elk soon after it was made up and haven't had her out very much. I need to work on that. BT53

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xausa
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Re: 358 Win.....Good Choice or Dog? [Re: Woodbeef]
      #89248 - 19/11/07 03:21 AM

I took my .358 Winchester built on a pre-War Mauserwerke Mauser out late yesterday afternoon, the first day of deer season. I was almost back to the house, when I came to the open field behind it and stopped to glass it before moving on out. In the last rays of the sinking sun I could see something reflecting light between me and the hill the house is built on. A quick glance through the scope revealed a six point buck looking at me.

I went to one knee, released the safety, used my hiking stick to steady my rifle, settled the post reticle of the Lyman 2 1/2X All American scope on the buck's shoulder and squeezed the trigger. Immediately following the report of the shot was the satisfying "whop" of the bullet hitting. The buck took off in a dead run and topped the rise to my direct front. A short search revealed him piled up in the middle of the field 150 yards away. The bullet had struck exactly where aimed, had missed the heart but destroyed the lungs and the near shoulder. How he made it that far on a broken shoulder remains a mystery.

The 250 grain Silvertip bullet is too much for the comparatively low resistance of a deer rib cage. It exited, leaving a quarter sized exit hole. In the future, I will stick to the 225 grainers, and leave the 250's for bigger stuff.

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Nakihunter
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Re: 358 Win.....Good Choice or Dog? [Re: xausa]
      #89263 - 19/11/07 07:44 AM

I love this cartridge & still regret selling my rifle. The consolation is that I used the money on my Simson 9.3X62!

The 358 project was real fun. I got a Mod70 winchester 243 for a real bargain - just the action was worth what I paid for it. I then found a custom rifle for sale - a Mod 88 lever action with a heavy stainless 358 barrel 26" long. The guy who got it built obviously did not understand the cartridge. The original 284 win magazine wouldn't feed the 358 ammo. He had fired about 1 packet of factory ammo & I bought the rifle, dies, 3 packs of ammo & 2 packs of Sierra 225 grs - for a very good price. I sent the Mod 70 & the Mod 88 to a gun smith & got him to switch the barrels, turn down the 358 barrel to a sporter profile & cut to 20" & put a Pachmyre decelator pad on. I sold the Mod 88 now in 243!

I had a Nikel post reticle scope on the 358. At the range it put 3 shots into one hole! I took it for a walk in the very dense bush looking for a red deer. I saw a big hind & shot it quartering towards me - tried to miss the shoulder. I ended up missing the lung but got her in the liver & through the spine. She was dead before i could get to her. The bullet performance is incredible. I could literally eat the meat up to the hole. The tender loins & the back straps were not blood shot. The rifle handled so well in thick bush. Good to see that Ruger have some short action bolt rifles out now. If my rifle comes back on the market, I'll try & buy it back!

--------------------
Always shoot through the target & not just at it.

Edited by Nakihunter (19/11/07 08:45 AM)

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333_okh
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Re: 358 Win.....Good Choice or Dog? [Re: Nakihunter]
      #89266 - 19/11/07 08:38 AM

Well I have come to disagree with velocities over 2600ish fps for game animals your eating. I like the 358 and the Whelen. I also like the 9.5 Mannlicher and the 9.3 Mauser. My current custom is a 6.5X55 SE that launches 155/156 grain slugs at 2600 fps. I think the 338 Federal has a lot to offer, but I am also cautious of small cases and high pressures. I will not hotrod the cartridges past their design. Velocity is too often used as a fix, or just to see who has the hottest caliber, but most of the time it is a poor sub for hunting skills. Sorry, I had to say it and I do not mean any offense to anyone, but a 300 RUM is not needed when your 115 yards from your quarry and bullets often have erratic performance. I know you just spent a buck$ a bullet for your favorite reload in your Ultra or Short Mag, but guess what, you do not need it! The bullet companies are making a killing designing bullets small for caliber but tough to take the velocity junkies handloads. I would choose a heavy long for the caliber load at moderate velocity. Look at what calibers like the 30'06 were designed with. Yeah, that’s right 220 grain slugs reduced to 174 later. This is still larger than most shoot out of it today. Take a look at the 8mm Mauser and the 196/198 grain loads from Europe. How about the 9.3X62 with the 286 grain smashers?!?! We look at the historical reputation of a caliber and them make it into something else when we get it by using bullets in it that we neither the ones that made the reputation, nor the ones designed for the caliber.

Sorry if this is considered a high-jacking of the thread, but the 358 would do everything I would want for NA bigger game, especially under 200 yards with 225s or 250s.

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DarylS
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Re: 358 Win.....Good Choice or Dog? [Re: 333_okh]
      #89305 - 20/11/07 02:24 AM

The .358Winchester and all rounds similar it are good solid 300 yard game rounds for North America - deer and black bear to moose and elk, but I draw the line on grizzlies to 100 yards with most any calibre, including the heavies. Closer is beter. A very small sighting/hitting error can get you or someone else in the future in a world of hurt. It is not a thing of power but of precise shot placement.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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xausa
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Re: 358 Win.....Good Choice or Dog? [Re: DarylS]
      #89328 - 20/11/07 08:49 AM

I couldn't agree more. A few years ago there was an article in Precision Shooting about 1000 yard deer hunting, which I consider an abomination, and it went on to mention shooting a black bear at that range.

What perple tend to forget, if they ever knew, is that it takes a perceptible time even for a high velocity bullet to reach it's target, and unless the target is inanimate or tethered, there is a chance that it will move after the shot has been fired and before the bullet arrives.

In other words, even in the unlikely event that the shooter is able to judge the range correctly, allow for drop, judge the wind correctly and allow for it, and the execute a perfect shot with a 1/2" of angle rifle, using 1/2" of angle ammunition, it is still possible to miss, or worse yet, to wound. Dealing with a wounded deer from a thousand yards away, and likely as not, across a canyon from the shooter, let alone a wounded bear, is not something a true sportsman will contemplate.

All this aside from the fact that even a bullet from .30/.340 Weatherby will have no more energy than a .30-30 by the time it arrives, even if the most ballistically sound bullet is used, which it shouldn't be, since those bullets are designed to perform at a much higher velocity, and will probably fail to expand properly. A bullet designed for .30-30 velocity would be travelling far slower on arrival.

I once had a 300 yard shot on a Beisa Oryx which was quartering away from me to the right. I aimed to shoot through the boiler room and break the left shoulder. After the shot broke, my PH, who was watching through binoculars, remarked, "He took a step just as you fired." I was using my pre-64 Model 70 .300 H&H with 180 grain Silvertip factory ammunition.

Fortunately, we were on an open plain, and able to follow tha oryx for over a mile in the Land Cruiser. When he finally succombed, he was discovered to have been hit about a foot to the rear of where I was aiming. Even so, it took two additional shots to bring him down. Had we not been in such an open area, he would have escaped to die in agony, or to be eaten alive by lions or hyenas. Not a fit end for such a noble animal.

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9.3x57
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Re: 358 Win.....Good Choice or Dog? [Re: xausa]
      #89340 - 20/11/07 10:22 AM

Great stuff.

I consider my .358-similar, favored 9.3x57 a 200 yrd cartridge. I have killed elk and deer at that range with it and am quite comfortable with it at that range but no farther. I pretty regularly practice on game-size targets on my rifle range at 50, 100, 150 and 200 yards. I know what I can do and am confident of my shooting at those ranges from certain, practiced field positions. I would feel quite confident with the .358 at all those ranges, assuming proper bullets were used on appropriate game. I have shot enough game sized targets {and a few head of game animals} at ranges greater than 200 yards to know what my comfort level is, or isn't as the case may be. The .358 might be a 300 yard cartridge, but not in my hands.

If I were to take up with a .300 Mag, I'd consider it a 200 yard cartridge also, mostly because I am a 200 yard shooter!

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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333_okh
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Re: 358 Win.....Good Choice or Dog? [Re: 9.3x57]
      #89567 - 23/11/07 02:37 PM

"I couldn't agree more. A few years ago there was an article in Precision Shooting about 1000 yard deer hunting, which I consider an abomination, and it went on to mention shooting a black bear at that range."

These are not hunters they are shooters!

I can understand 300 yards, but 1000, never! I have even finished game at over 400, but I choose less than 100 with a good stalk as often as I can. I do not care how good you think you are or really are, you cannot guarantee a humane one-shot kill at 1000 yard in a game hunting situation. I recently was told of an elk hunter with a 338 Lapua and a 750-yard kill. He did and it took three follow-up shots. He was very proud of his new gun and kill, but I was disgusted!

Shooter does not = HUNTER!

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DarylS
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Re: 358 Win.....Good Choice or Dog? [Re: 333_okh]
      #89610 - 24/11/07 04:09 AM

I meant to say the .358 is capable at 300 yards. We must all be aware of our own capability and that is what makes us good hunters. The gun provides the power, while we provide the guidance. That said, I stive to do my hunting before the shot. To date, I've only taken one game animal past 100 yards, as it's the only one I felt I had to. Now, I'd not take that shot as I just get closer. If I was a meat hunter only, and I used to be, I'd shoot futher than that, but now, it's the hunt that's important to me, not 'filling a tag'.
; The modern run of magnums has hurt the ethics of hunting immensly. Brand new hunters, 17, 18, 19 years old, buying their first big game rifle, are (many of them) buying the Ultra Mags because they think, from the advertizments, they can now shoot their deer or moose at 600 yards.
; What we now have, is industry 'inventing' merely to increase their coffers, not inventing because it's something we need. Such is the 'free' society and to be expected, unfortunately.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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FourWinds
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Re: 358 Win.....Good Choice or Dog? [Re: DarylS]
      #89613 - 24/11/07 05:13 AM

I have a Savage 99F 358. Light handy and accurate. The appeal of the 358 here in the US was it's use in shorter and lighter rifles. It was designed to be a short action 35 Whelen. The Savages and the Winchester 88 made good saddle/pack guns. So to my mind it, would be good to consider the type of action you are buying in to. I fell in love with mausers, and am a dedicated 9.3x62 user. But I haven't sold the Savage. It's a great gun.

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bonanza
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Re: 358 Win.....Good Choice or Dog? [Re: FourWinds]
      #89618 - 24/11/07 06:58 AM

I was so impressed by the ballistics of the .358 that I bought a double rifle in it. Bullet selection was paramount.

Remington makes the 200 cor-lokt. Nosler makes the 225 accu-bond and the 250 partion. Bullets were not going to be an issues.

--------------------


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"Life is absurd, chaotic and we must define its purpose with our actions" Abert Camus

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jro45
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Re: 358 Win.....Good Choice or Dog? [Re: Woodbeef]
      #89669 - 24/11/07 11:26 PM

If someone were to give me one I would not turn it down But for me to buy one, NO, I have calibers all around it.

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xausa
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Re: 358 Win.....Good Choice or Dog? [Re: FourWinds]
      #89678 - 25/11/07 12:51 AM

I always felt that the .358 was designed to replace the .348 Winchester in the Model 71 by offering it in the Model 88 lever action and the Model 100 semi-automatic. Unfortunately, neither of these interesting rifles caught on. I say interesting because both combine the strength of a turn bolt action with the benefits of a well designed one piece stock. Superior instinctive shooting rifles, and a pleasure to shoot, unlike their Remington self loading and pump counterparts.

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9.3x57
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Re: 358 Win.....Good Choice or Dog? [Re: xausa]
      #89686 - 25/11/07 01:33 AM

Quote:

I always felt that the .358 was designed to replace the .348 Winchester in the Model 71 by offering it in the Model 88 lever action and the Model 100 semi-automatic.



I think that was indeed the expressed purpose of the .358.

I used to own a couple .348's, killed deer and bear with them and generally liked them except for the fact that they were somewhat heavy for caliber. I also owned a piece of farm machinery that the makers called a rifle...the Remington 81, and killed deer with it. I always liked the Remington contraption, but more as a curiousity than anything else I guess.

As for the .358, I think it missed its niche, which IMO is a light short-action carbine like my Ruger .308 Ultra-light. For following up bear hounds and as a mountain woods stalking rifle for deer, how could a fellow beat it?

But really, from a marketing standpoint, the .358 was doomed from birth and I'm surprised Winchester even went through the effort to develop it. It never sprinted and always limped along, marketing-wise. Good cartridge, but it will never enter Top Ten in the RCBS reloading die list...

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hoppdoc
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Re: 358 Win.....Good Choice or Dog? [Re: xausa]
      #89687 - 25/11/07 01:42 AM

No flies on the 358.

I have a 35 Whelen and its a killing machine.

I don't have a 358 lever cause of my 45-70 lever action's but I would consider the 358 in a lever action a superb longer range combination to have in the deep woods.

Evidently others do to---

http://www.gunsandammomag.com/gun_columns/notes/notes0404_0426/

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400NitroExpress
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Re: 358 Win.....Good Choice or Dog? [Re: 500grains]
      #89710 - 25/11/07 07:31 AM

Quote:

Based on my experience I would not ever use a 250 grain bullet in the 358, and I would try to use a relatively soft bullet or there will be no expansion.



I've used 300 grain 9.3mm jacketed bullets of several brands in a .400/.360 at 2000 fps for many years and have never had a problem with inadequate expansion. What kind of bullet were you using? A 250 grain Woodleigh RNSN at the standard 2250 fps from a .358 sounds ideal to me.

The ballistics of the .318 Westley Richards (actual, not table; one of the few British cartridges that consistently fell short of advertised velocity) is virtually identical with 250 grain bullets, and it was considered a great killer.

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jro45
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Re: 358 Win.....Good Choice or Dog? [Re: DarylS]
      #90196 - 01/12/07 12:20 AM

It might be a good choise for some hunters and others not such a good choise. I could see where it is good choise close up for bear.

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DarylS
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Re: 358 Win.....Good Choice or Dog? [Re: jro45]
      #90206 - 01/12/07 01:40 AM

At the low velocity of 2,150fps to 2,300fps from a .358Win.(OR .356) the 250gr. Horandy RN's work just fine. mY Bro's .356 with 20" gets 2,150fps with the 250's and he uses it for his guide gun. So far, the 3 moose and black bears he's had to finish have all died rather abruptly. One of the moose was just over 200yards and the expansion was perfect on the quartering shot. Behind the last rib, ended up in the front of the off shoulder and the moose dropped at the shot.
: Where you place them counts.

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"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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500grains
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Re: 358 Win.....Good Choice or Dog? [Re: 400NitroExpress]
      #90214 - 01/12/07 02:50 AM

Quote:

Based on my experience I would not ever use a 250 grain bullet in the 358, and I would try to use a relatively soft bullet or there will be no expansion.



That has been my experience as well, but the 225 grain Woodleighs expand nicely.

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9.3x57
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Re: 358 Win.....Good Choice or Dog? [Re: 500grains]
      #90272 - 01/12/07 01:39 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Based on my experience I would not ever use a 250 grain bullet in the 358, and I would try to use a relatively soft bullet or there will be no expansion.



That has been my experience as well, but the 225 grain Woodleighs expand nicely.



Sounds like there are no good heavies in .358?

I shoot 285 grain bullets in my 9.3x57 at a muzzle speed of 2100 fps and I have gotten superb results on deer, black bear and elk at from bayonet distance out to 200 meters.

A good 250 would be very useful in the .358. If all the available bullets are too "hard", try hollow-pointing them. I have gotten very dramatic improvement in expansion hollow-pointing 196 grain 8mms.

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400NitroExpress
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Re: 358 Win.....Good Choice or Dog? [Re: 9.3x57]
      #90773 - 06/12/07 05:30 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Based on my experience I would not ever use a 250 grain bullet in the 358, and I would try to use a relatively soft bullet or there will be no expansion.



That has been my experience as well, but the 225 grain Woodleighs expand nicely.



Sounds like there are no good heavies in .358?



Dan didn't read my post and was quoting himself. No, there are plenty of good heavies in .358. I shoot 300 grain at 1950 - 2000 fps in .400/.360 with superb expansion and penetration. The .358 gives 250 grain bullets ample velocity for good expansion with a number of heavy bullets.

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4seventy
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Re: 358 Win.....Good Choice or Dog? [Re: 400NitroExpress]
      #90777 - 06/12/07 10:15 PM

There is no doubt that the 250 gn RN Woodleighs would give very good expansion and penetration at the velocity that should be achieved in the 358 Win.
However, some 358 Win rifles will have a chamber throat length cut to suit spitzer profile bullets, and these could be too short to allow a 250 grain round nose to be seated out far enough to fit enough powder into the smallish capacity of the 358's little case, to achieve the desired velocity.
Lengthening the throat is an option, but this could cost veocity with spitzer bullets.
Trying to seat the heavier bullets out further in order to get enough powder in can also create dramas with the short magazine length found on some .358 Win rifles.
I've bin there done that.
The solution might be to try and talk Geoff into doing some 250 gn .358 Woodleigh PP's.

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bonanza
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Re: 358 Win.....Good Choice or Dog? [Re: 500grains]
      #91923 - 18/12/07 02:17 PM

I just picked a box of woodleigh 225 and 250s for my 35WCF

Glad to hear they expand well.

I've not killed anything with my .358, but it seems such an underrated caliber.

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Blacktail53
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Re: 358 Win.....Good Choice or Dog? [Re: bonanza]
      #93053 - 31/12/07 02:05 PM

I'm not sure I see a reason to use such heavy weights in the .358 WCF.

The Nosler 225gr partition is plenty of bullet for anything you'd use a .358 on.
It'll allow for reasonable velocity, great bullet upset and penetration, with less recoil than the heavy weights. A point to concider in those petite little 99's and modest bolt guns.

You can toss the 225 grainer 2450+fps and get less than 10" drop at 300 yards with a 200 yard zero.
Up close and personal in the bushes, it'll crush heavy shoulders, shred lungs and leave a blood trail a child could follow. The Nosler will expand up close and far away. A pretty good all around choice.

Mine will see duty on elk and an occasional deer. BT

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JabaliHunter
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Re: 358 Win.....Good Choice or Dog? [Re: Blacktail53]
      #93091 - 01/01/08 03:05 AM

I thought that the whole point of stepping up to .35 was to be able to make best use of 250grain bullets. If you want something that is very effective with 220 to 225 grain bullets, a 30-06 will work well with 220s, and then you have some good 8mm (e.g. 8x68S and 325WSM) and .338 rounds

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12FVSS260
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Re: 358 Win.....Good Choice or Dog? [Re: JabaliHunter]
      #96071 - 06/02/08 06:10 AM

It is still a very popular choice for heavy cover bear hunting behind dogs and also a decent moose anddeer stopper at moderate ranges where I hunt. I like the chambering quite a lot and wouldn't hesitate to use it in a nice light short action woods gun.

Dave

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DarylS
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Re: 358 Win.....Good Choice or Dog? [Re: JabaliHunter]
      #96075 - 06/02/08 08:19 AM

In the States, there seems to be a need for higher velocities, no matter what the calibre. This is why the big cased ctg. sell. Are they needed - no.
; For me, there is little reason for not using a 250gr. at about 2,250fps to 2,300fps. for most all shooting. The lighter bullets of course, are better suited for deer, but the 250 does a good job on them too. Accuracy is a must, but then, it seems to be a current trend that MORE power will make up for poor hits. It doesn't work that way except on small animals. In some areas, deer clasify in that category.
; The 225gr. Sierra SPBT should shine for more open country while the velocity won't be too hard on it's integrity.
; What we don't have in the 250gr. Interlock, is a soft enough nose with heavy enough shank to expand easily on light game, while penetrating deeply on heavier. It's a bit tough all over for these speeds, but does work well on heavier game.
; If one looked at all rounds based on whether or not they were needed for moderate to heavy game, we wouldn't have more than a .45/70 and an '06 to choose from.

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Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Woodbeef
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Re: 358 Win.....Good Choice or Dog? [Re: DM]
      #98166 - 03/03/08 07:55 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Is the 358 Win a good choice for North American game or just a dog as some claim?



The "best" use for the 358 Win. is for dispatching old "worn out" Valtra's... hee he heee If it will do that, i guess it's good enough for any other job too...

DM



No need for that,AGCO seems to have already done that in North America.

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bonanza
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Re: 358 Win.....Good Choice or Dog? [Re: Blacktail53]
      #98190 - 03/03/08 11:05 AM

Blacktail,

My .35 Winchester is a double rifle. It can only push the 250 grain pill to 2150 fps, so I need to shoot a heavier projectile. Let's face it; with express sights, we are only talking a 20-60 yard shot.

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DarylS
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Re: 358 Win.....Good Choice or Dog? [Re: bonanza]
      #98204 - 03/03/08 12:59 PM

Express sights have provem to me to be the most accurate Open sights yet. I have easily been able to hold my 14 bore rifle inside 1-1/2" at 100 meters with them. Some 5 shto groups run as small as 1.2". This is a muzzleloading rifle as well.
: Bonanza - your ballistics duplicate my brother's 250gr. load in his M94 big Bore .356 guide rifle. He's dropped previously wounded moose out to 210 yards with it. The big bullets are surprising killers of game.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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