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Ripp
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An Ode To The 250-300 Savaged Improved...
      #361787 - 11/02/22 01:36 AM

An Ode to the .250-3000 Savage Improved

by AARON CARTER posted on February 8, 2022



https://www.americanhunter.org/content/an-ode-to-the-250-3000-savage-improved/

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
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Re: An Ode To The 250-300 Savaged Improved... [Re: Ripp]
      #361797 - 11/02/22 04:37 AM

That's a good one, with ballistics about the same as a top-loaded .257 Roberts. Even the standard .250 Savage in a good bolt action is a great ctg. with today's powders, as noted in the article.
The IMP Roberts of course, is just a bit better yet.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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85lc
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Re: An Ode To The 250-300 Savaged Improved... [Re: DarylS]
      #361871 - 12/02/22 08:30 AM

That is a 6.25% velocity increase which, if pressure is equal, equates to a 25% increase in powder (1/4 ratio) which does not make sense.
The only way that works is to increase pressure.

--------------------
RB


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DarylS
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Re: An Ode To The 250-300 Savaged Improved... [Re: 85lc]
      #361878 - 12/02/22 11:49 AM

Agreed: the usual velocity 'claim' is a 10% increase with the imp. ctg.

The original .250 Savage was SAAMI loaded to 53,000 psi. The .257 Roberts SAAMI stanard was 54,000psi.
In a good bolt actioned rifle, there is no reason this must be adhered to.
This case is the parent of the .22-250, which has a SAAMI loaded pressure limit of 65,000psi.
Thus, in both the .250 IMP and .257 IMP, working pressures are usually higher than the original ctg. was loaded to & in part due to that, the velocities are higher.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: An Ode To The 250-300 Savaged Improved... [Re: DarylS]
      #361898 - 12/02/22 08:11 PM

One can't improve a classic.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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260rem
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Re: An Ode To The 250-300 Savaged Improved... [Re: NitroX]
      #361908 - 12/02/22 10:47 PM

I like a lot of the older cartridges, they didn't need super speeds or premium bullets back then.
But they got the job done, with modern powders they have a, whole new lease on life.
My little 22 hornet with a 40gn Vmax and the amazing Lilgun powder gets a staggering 3015fps.
Thats a deadly little combination right there, and a very long way in performance from when the round was 1st developed.
I think a lightweight very short action rifle in 250sav would be brilliant for a guy that hunts mostly varmints and the odd fallow, goats and the odd pig trip.

--------------------
One shot is all you need.


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DarylS
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Re: An Ode To The 250-300 Savaged Improved... [Re: 260rem]
      #361916 - 13/02/22 07:06 AM

If your rifle is a CZ, 260Rem, it will do better than 3,015 if you use a Lee Factory crimp die, RP brass and LG powder. The 40gr. Vmax, 40gr. Ballistic Tip and 40gr. Barnes Varminator
Both of my CZ's exceeded 3,300fps with those bullets & my brass went 14 rounds without a single loss. No expanded pockets, no split necks.
The RP brass is necessary to get these ballistics. It is the thinnest of all the brass, yet showed more than ample strength. WW brass can load up to 13.5gr. in those CZ 527's and achieve just over 3,200fps with them.
My best gopher shot was 454yards with the Ballistic Tip Nosler, vel. 3,357fps. I only partial FL sized them to about 1/2 neck length, with long oal as possible, only 1/10" of bullet in the case and crimped in the die. This, of course, further increased the capacity. My CZ routinely made groups well under 3/8", even under .200" at 100 meters, making only slightly oblong holes for 3 shots. 5 shot groups went under 3/8".
An amazing ctg. in these rifles. The Ruger #1's as well as M77 .22Hornet and TC Contenders also handle these loads perfectly. As the pressure is said to be in the 50,000PSI range, these loads are not recommended for older or weaker actions- at all.
That I was able to use pistol primers with never piercing a primer, shows the pressures not over 50,000psi, and likely in the 45,000psi range. 45,000psi is said to be max. for pistol primers.
My first CZ went over 7,000rounds of these loads with the original 500cases I purchased, before I turned all the brass into .17AH's and used a re-chambered .17 Rem CZ take-off barrel. The brass was fireformed and loaded twice more for a total of 17 times before it needed to be annealed.
I will note at this time, that the CZ Hornets I have had (2) both had quite snug chambers, as well as the .22 Hornet Rugers I tested and the TC Contender. All worked well with the WW brass at 13.5gr. and the RP brass with 14.0gr. and 14.4gr. LG loads.

edited- sorry 7,000rounds not 14,000.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

Edited by Daryl_S (13/02/22 11:45 AM)


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93x64mm
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Reged: 07/12/11
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Re: An Ode To The 250-300 Savaged Improved... [Re: 260rem]
      #361920 - 13/02/22 08:06 AM

Quote:

I like a lot of the older cartridges, they didn't need super speeds or premium bullets back then.
But they got the job done, with modern powders they have a, whole new lease on life.
My little 22 hornet with a 40gn Vmax and the amazing Lilgun powder gets a staggering 3015fps.
Thats a deadly little combination right there, and a very long way in performance from when the round was 1st developed.
I think a lightweight very short action rifle in 250sav would be brilliant for a guy that hunts mostly varmints and the odd fallow, goats and the odd pig trip.




Holey Dooley!
That's scooting for a Hornet 260!
Certainly would have a sting in it's tail then.
Amazing how new powder technology can help bring these old (nearly) forgotten cartridges back to life.


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260rem
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Re: An Ode To The 250-300 Savaged Improved... [Re: DarylS]
      #361928 - 13/02/22 11:37 AM

Quote:

If your rifle is a CZ, 260Rem, it will do better than 3,015 if you use a Lee Factory crimp die, RP brass and LG powder. The 40gr. Vmax, 40gr. Ballistic Tip and 40gr. Barnes Varminator
Both of my CZ's exceeded 3,300fps with those bullets & my brass went 14 rounds without a single loss. No expanded pockets, no split necks.
The RP brass is necessary to get these ballistics. It is the thinnest of all the brass, yet showed more than ample strength. WW brass can load up to 13.5gr. in those CZ 527's and achieve just over 3,200fps with them.
My best gopher shot was 454yards with the Ballistic Tip Nosler, vel. 3,357fps. I only partial FL sized them to about 1/2 neck length, with long oal as possible, only 1/10" of bullet in the case and crimped in the die. This, of course, further increased the capacity. My CZ routinely made groups well under 3/8", even under .200" at 100 meters, making only slightly oblong holes for 3 shots. 5 shot groups went under 3/8".
An amazing ctg. in these rifles. The Ruger #1's as well as M77 .22Hornet and TC Contenders also handle these loads perfectly. As the pressure is said to be in the 50,000PSI range, these loads are not recommended for older or weaker actions- at all.
That I was able to use pistol primers with never piercing a primer, shows the pressures not over 50,000psi, and likely in the 45,000psi range. 45,000psi is said to be max. for pistol primers.
My first CZ went over 14,000rounds of these loads wit the original 500cases I purchased, before I turned all the brass into .17AH's and used a re-chambered .17 Rem CZ take-off barrel. The brass was fireformed and loaded twice more for a total of 17 times before it needed to be annealed.
I will note at this time, that the CZ Hornets I have had (2) both had quite snug chambers, as well as the .22 Hornet Rugers I tested and the TC Contender. All worked well with the WW brass at 13.5gr. and the RP brass with 14.0gr. and 14.4gr. LG loads.




I'm using Winchester brass in a Blaser K95 single shot.
I could get more speed as 13.5gn is the GOTO load apparently, but I'm only loading 13gn as it fills the case up well for a compressed load and I didn't see a point in pushing it.
3015fps is plenty fast out of a gun I was only expecting 2700fps from, and I don't like shooting maximum hot loads although I doubt throat erosion will be a problem in this case.

--------------------
One shot is all you need.


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DarylS
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Re: An Ode To The 250-300 Savaged Improved... [Re: 260rem]
      #361929 - 13/02/22 11:46 AM

As I noted (at least thought I did) Winchester cases have just about 1gr. LESS capacity than RP cases. 13.5gr is the maximum I could easily load in WW brass, while 14.4gr. was my load in RP brass.

Had to edit my post - 7,000rounds total, not 14,000.
In my second CZ Hornet, I only put about 4,000rounds through it with the WW and a few remaining RP cases that weren't converted to .17H's.

Same in my Ruger #1 in .218 Bee, 7,000rounds - 14 loads on 500 original cases using more 16.0gr. LG with the 40's.

No throat erosion in either rifle.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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260rem
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Re: An Ode To The 250-300 Savaged Improved... [Re: DarylS]
      #361940 - 13/02/22 05:16 PM

You can definitely squeeze some incredible speeds out of those strait walled old ceses with Lilgun, I wish you could still buy it here I've only got 3 bottles left, although that will do me a few thousand more rounds before I have to come up with a new load.

--------------------
One shot is all you need.


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