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lancaster
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The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history
      #150441 - 13/01/10 01:29 AM

Post this here under classic rifle's because I feel an action 119 years old don’t fit in the new rifle’s section.

you may remember that christmas was coming again



and because unusual things will happen in this time of the year
I have got a Mosin sporting rifle kit from finland one day before christmas. It started in the mosin forum over one year ago in a discussion about the 9,3x53R Finish. Some times later Bokmal send me a message that he have seen a 9,3 barrel - if I allways have an interest for such an rifle? This barrel was for an arisaka action but in the end I have got a mosin barrel, a system, a piece of walnut, an old Zeiss Ziel Vier and a Mannlicher Schoenauer claw mount, also the small parts for a very, very pc sporting rifle.
And it will end someday in the proof house in Suhl, hopefully without blowing the rifle in pieces.









You know that one rifle leads to another rifle. When I've got a M 88 in 9x57 was needing also a swedish sporter in 9,3x57 and having this I was knowing that a finish 9,3 is a must have. While waiting for the parts was browsing through the net for informations about the cartridge and it will be shame now when it will be lost.
The finish Mosin conversation was most times a simple hunting rifle made from an old war horse to hunting moose for meat one time in the year like this here.





There are existing also some decent real Mosin sporter but the style and the taste of the sixties was becoming something uncertain. It was the time when Monte Carlo stocks and plastic fake ivory caps coming in vogue. not that I mean such finish sporters but it wasnt the same anymore like it was before WW 2.







My destination is a sporting rifle in the clear and classic lines of the Husqvarna mauser sporter.
when I start this project was looking for all informations about and around the 9,3x53R.

First thing to note is that there are in fact four different 9,3x53 cartridges. The first was a 9,3x53 rimless, called Model 25. this is a 7,5x55 Swiss necked up for a .366 bullet. The designation M 25 indicate 1925 as the time of development.



As a Model (19)26 exist the 9,3x53R Swiss, this is the rimmed version for single shot’s. I don’t have seen rifles for this rounds till now. What I have heard is that the rimles round was chambered in rebored swiss military rifles without any other “sporterisation”. The rimmed cartridge was intendet for the popular martini falling block action. The swiss arsenal Altdorf was maybe the only manufaturer for both rounds. The production of this cartridges seems to stop in the sixsty’s



The 9,3x53R Swiss will be sometimes mixed up with the

9,3x53R Finish

What norma is saying about his 9,3x57 is also true for the 9,3x53R Finish:

“Interestingly, no one seems to be able to determine exactly when or by whom the 9.3x57 chambering was designed”

What we know is that it started after WW 2 in a time when the finish had a lot of problems caused from the big neighbour in the east. There was a law forbidding the use of military rifles for hunting after WW 2 what caused the 8,2x53R Mosin and probably also our 9,3x53R. Similar stupidity after WW 1 created the 8x60 Mauser in germany. Its my opinion that the finish copy the Swedish idea of the 9,3x57,well proofed in Husqvarna Mauser sporter and created a Moose cartridge for cheap conversions of old military rifles. Sako in Finland was and is the only manufacturer of this cartridge and sold also new brass. A box of 20 unfired cases is sold for 16,50 euro here and when I make my order had have to wait because it was sold out. It must be more than one rifle around here in the evil empire. There are good reasons to belief that the first drawing of our cartridge was made from a Sako employee.





right 9(,3)x53R russian version/LVE left 9,3x53R Finish/Sako





Old sako ammo box


And new ammo box

Like with the 9,3x53(R) Swiss only the neck of the 7,62x54R Mosin was open for .366 diameter bullets. The rest of the case was not change and so a rebored and reriffled military Mosin barrel needs only a neck reamer.




You see in this Kemira list that the 9,3x53R runs a little bit higher than the 9,3x57 Mauser because the mosin can stand a little bit more pressure than a Swedish M 96 action.
This kemira load is more or less identical with the sako factory load. we can assume it is in fact the sako factory load:





SAKO 9,3x53R factory load:

Velocity
Bullet Weigth V0 V100 V200 V300

9,3x53R Gamehead RN 16,6 gramm 710 600 500 420

Energy
0m 100m 200m 300m

4083 2912 2027 1426

Balistic
50m 100m 150m 200m 250m 300m

3,1cm 5,0 cm 0 cm -13,3 cm -37,5 cm -72,4 cm

the 9,3 Finnish was ever loaded with one bullet weigth in all the years. In my opinion is the 16,6 gramm bullet ideal for this 9,3mm cartridges like the 16 gramm was the best for the 9mm and the 17,2 gramm was the best for the ligth 9,5mm cartridges.
Sako was loading also the 9,3x57 Mauser once with this bullet. Norma have maybe good reasons for the “ ligth” 230 grains and the heavy 285 grains load in the 9,3x57. the first is fine for roe deer and the second is for moose but there is something like a ideal bullet weigth for every cartridge. The 285 grains bullet is the rigth one in the 9,3x62, in the 9,3x57 and 9,3x53R it’s the 16,6 gramm bullet.


Old copper crusher method give a max. pressure of 3000 bar for the 9,3x53R
In practise there will be no difference between the two 9,3mm cartridges. Its similar like between a 9mm Mannlicher Schoenauer and 9mm Mauser or a 9,5mm Mannlicher Schoenauer and 375 NE 2,5”
An old german cartridge manual from 1973 shows how unknown the cartridge outside of finland was in this day’s.


The Sako load is called 9,3x53r Swiss here but on the other side CotW don’t know it at all.
For comparison here is the old Sako 9,3x57 load, same bullet, similar ballistic




The last cartridge in the row is the 9x53R

This is the russian designation but the cartridge is so close to the finish cartridge that I call it a “copy”.
Was surprise to see that a wikipedia article exist for the 9x53R:
The 9x53R rifle cartridge was designed as a hunting cartridge,it is a 7.62x54mmR necked up to accommodate a larger bullet. The Russian version was designed from a mister M.N. Blum in 1957 and the cartridge was produced from 1962–1977, again from early1990s-present.
This cartridge was not to produced for many years, but large volumes in private stock reach till the “Novosibirsk ammunition factory” make it possible also, until now, to meet the demand for these cartridges.
The Soviet hunting cartridge 9x53R was developed for hunting in the extreme north regions in the USSR.
It is calculated on large animals: sea seals, walrus, bear, moose. this cartridge should not be confused with 9.3x53R Finnish which has similar dimensions, but a sightly larger bullet: 9,30mm(366) against 9,27mm(.365), a 71.45mm overall cartridge length[7] against 67,8mm and, more important, higher maximum pressure – 3400 bar against 2900 bar for the russian version.
As a result shooting the finish cartridge is only safe in mosin action rifles.
The cartridge 9,3x53R Sako is ten times more expensive than 9x53R ammunition in Russia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9x53R

http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/9%D1%8553_%D0%BC%D0%BC

I don’t know why the russians call it 9x53R, also don’t know why they choose the very unusual .365 diameter. Maybe the same reason why the 9 mm Makarov pistol round have a .364 diameter bullet.
The rusian cartridge can shoot in every finish rifle. The finish round is also safe in russian made mosin rifles but make problems in russian made semi auto sporting rifles because of the higher pressure. To use it in russian single or double rifles is a question for a competent gunsmith and in a CIP member country also for the proof house.
the LVE plant from Novosibirsk was and is making the 9x53(9,3x53R Russian). some day someone will come in here with one of this Russian double rifles and wonder why it will not regulate with sako cartridges. If its true what we have learning about the regulation of classic double rifles handloads with a 15 gramm spitzer soft point at 647 m/sec will do it.
There is no doubt that such russian doubles are made for the LVE load.
This is the the LVE ballistic for the 9x53R round with the common copper washed steel case:



Hunting cartridge 9x53R SP, V25 av640-655 m/sec, 240.1(2450kgf/cm2) - 254.8 (2600kgf/cm2), At distance100 8cm max. , Bullet mass14.9-15.1 , Cartridge mass26.8-29.04g, Jacket material – copper.Case material – bimetal

A russian made brass case was not found till now, difference between cartridges made before 1977 and after 1990 is that the old rounds have a “188” code headstamp and the new rounds have the “LVE” headstamp.





There are new rebored mosin rifles in russia now available for the 9x53R and they also use the sako load sometimes. the original military stock is maybe not a bad decision under the very hard conditions in the russian norther territory.






if someone ever would export this from russia he will find enough gun nuts who need it.

Baikal is also making new rifles for the 9,3x53R but I havn’t heard that it’s available outside of russia. The DR is one of the futuristic O/U but the single shot stalking rifle can be used for a nice classic rework in my opinion .





Russian Cossacks hunting the Caspian tiger on the Iranian cost of the Caspian sea with mosin rifles,1912. I wonder if the horn player on the pic was blowing “attack” when the tiger was coming in sigth of the group.
The mosin action is a proofed dangerous game rifle!






ok, work have allready start’s - my gunmaker was becoming ill about the christmas day’s. I use the time to begin polishing the action. Most work was spend for sporterizing the trigger and trigger guard with the file.






the Mauser style safety turns to the “wrong” side


fire


safe

The bolt will get a colour case hardening.some screws I have for the project got a fire blueing
Before:

and then:


I hope to update this thread from time to time

Edited by CptCurl (14/01/10 12:05 AM)

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Carpetsahib
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: lancaster]
      #150454 - 13/01/10 02:42 AM

Interesting project. I'm looking forward to seeing your progress. By the way, where did you find the Mauser type safety for the Mosin?

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Carpetsahib]
      #150456 - 13/01/10 02:52 AM

Very interesting project. Yes please keep any updates coming.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
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lancaster
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Carpetsahib]
      #150473 - 13/01/10 06:07 AM

thank you
the mauser style wing safety was a finish modification for cavalry carbines. it is not very common and was the most expensive part of the lot. bokmal was knowing this and find it on a finish gun show, again thank you bokmal for your help

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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tinker
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: lancaster]
      #150474 - 13/01/10 06:29 AM

YES YES YES!!



Can't wait to see more as this project.

Have fun with it Lancaster!





Cheers
Tinker

--------------------
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"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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simonsaorsa
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: tinker]
      #150478 - 13/01/10 06:47 AM

Fascinating project and great to learn so much about the 9.3X53R, which I had never heard of before.

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Bokmal
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: simonsaorsa]
      #150482 - 13/01/10 07:29 AM

Hi Lancaster, I'm happy to see that your project is progressing!

Just a small addition to the facts above; the 9,3x53R was developed at Sako in 1944. Lapua also offered a factory load for several years but discontinued it in the mid 1990ies.

--------------------
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Sarg
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: lancaster]
      #150486 - 13/01/10 08:57 AM

What a great post !
Too true , once you start things can get out of hand , I had one Lee Speed go through my hands , now have 10, BSA , Parker Hale , Lee Speed's , rifles & action waiting to be cleaned up or worked on !

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9.3x57
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Sarg]
      #150517 - 13/01/10 02:49 PM

I wish I knew how to say "Excellent Post!!!" in Suomen!

Very interesting.

There used to be a Colorado doctor AKA Kwahe on the Swede forum that had a M-N rebored to 9,3x53R.

Alas, all of his load data was lost when the site crashed.

I used to have a collection of M-N's years ago. VERY interesting rifle, especially the 28-30 which was my favorite.

Lancaster, a two-pin 28-30 or 39 trigger will help you a lot in getting a good trigger break. I learned over the years how to work a stock Russian M-N trigger to a good, crisp, light release, but using a Finn improved 28-30/39 trigger jumpstarts the effort quite a bit.

PLEASE keep posting on this project.

Ex-President of SAKO Henry Paasikivii sent me a dummy 9,3x53R round back in the mid-80's...I wish I'd built a rifle using a 28-20 or 39 as a base.

Keep us informed!

A Baikal in 9,3x53R????????

Oh, boy, I'd buy that one in a New York minute...

And the Russky's used to build the Medved semiauto rifle in 9x53R.

That must be quite a find, the Soviet ballistic/mechanical twin of today's Remington 750 in .35 Whelen, except the Russian version probably fuinctioned well!

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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lancaster
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: 9.3x57]
      #150552 - 13/01/10 09:34 PM

bringing such a work into the public will set you under pressure to be succesful!
Oh yes , the russian semi auto sporting rifle is the medved. had heard it that rifle and ammunition is exported to bulgaria but not more about it. the russian cartridge is very hard to find as a collector round here. it will be never exportetd in shooting quatity's in the evil empire here because the gun law only allow CIP proofed ammuntion, exept collector catridges.
even collector's where I buy some rare rounds asking me if I have it. some reloading points were be spoken in the M 95 moose killer post. the die set will be come from CH4D again, I have now 100 new brass cases and 60 Sako factory rounds. brass can be easy resized from 7,62x54r brass if you have it. the only brass case I found in my stuff was a russian sniper case with "166" headstamp -- LVE military load. resizing with the CH4D die is like making 9x57 from 8x57 brass.
the masterplan is to stay with the Kemira/ Vithavouri load. only problem is that nobody exported the 16,6gramm Sako softpoint bullet, maybe bokmal can again make a packet for me this year. the one rifle/ one load concept isn't so bad at all. for double rifle's it worked some years with satisfaction.
Wim Degol in belgium makes great bonded core bullets on demand, any size and weight, equally to woodleigh's in quality. will be a good idea to order the 16,6 gramm bullet also from him.
for bokmal information about the year 1944, the so called "peace" with the soviet union was made on the 19.9.44. iirc the now more or less obsolete but very interesting 7x33 was also develop in 1944. it seems to be that there some guy's in he finish ammunition industry were very quick to locking for a new peace time production.
did you have a pic of a 7x33 rifle, bokmal? I never see it before, believing it was sometimes THE cartridge for hunting wood grouse and black groose in Finland

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

Edited by lancaster (13/01/10 09:38 PM)

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fuhrmann
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: lancaster]
      #150562 - 13/01/10 10:53 PM

Quote:

.....
the masterplan is to stay with the Kemira/ Vithavouri load. only problem is that nobody exported the 16,6gramm Sako softpoint bullet, maybe bokmal can again make a packet for me this year. the one rifle/ one load concept isn't so bad at all. for double rifle's it worked some years with satisfaction.
.....



Hi Lancaster,

a fine project, and very interesting reading!
Do not ignore the 16.5 gram GECO bullet!

Greetings,
Fuhrmann

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Igorrock
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: fuhrmann]
      #150580 - 14/01/10 12:59 AM


SAKO L46 in 7x33

And here is the cartride:


I have to say that the Mosin above without maganine is mine. In fact, it still have an ordinary magazine but in some day i'll make it looks a like in picture.

--------------------
http://promaakari.wordpress.com/

Edited by CptCurl (16/01/10 12:18 AM)

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9.3x57
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Igorrock]
      #150583 - 14/01/10 01:15 AM

Lancaster;

The old 28-30 and 39 triggers used to be had here for a few dollars. I should have bought a hundred of them...

They make improving the letoff very easy, tho it can be done with a normal factory M-N trigger with some difficulty. But it can be done. Are the 39 triggers available there in Finland as spare parts?

Please keep this project alive here on NE.

Also, as I understand it, the front of the magazine must be opened up a little to allow smooth feeding of the 9,3 round?

I think u are right about the use of similar boring for Makarov and "9x54R/9x53R". Why? Who knows, but maybe barrel drilling equipment was available for such. The Russians have made some work with 9,3 caliber military loads for sniper purposes also, but I think the more modern 9,3x64 loadings were common .366.

Anyway, some enterprising American should resurrect the 9,3x53R here. We are AWASH with millions {probably} of worn out M-N's!

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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lancaster
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Igorrock]
      #150585 - 14/01/10 01:19 AM

did you reload for your rifle igorrock? is this picture from gunboards showing the rifle without magazin or did you have a special made magazin? it would be fine to see pics how it works. I have posted here pics of an austrian mannlicher M 95 sporter with such a unique handmade magazin being flush with the stock.
isnt the 7x33 a rimless botleneck cartridge?

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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lancaster
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: lancaster]
      #150588 - 14/01/10 01:27 AM

Here is the M 95 sporter I was talking about




--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

Edited by CptCurl (16/01/10 12:18 AM)

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Carpetsahib
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Igorrock]
      #150589 - 14/01/10 01:34 AM

Quote:


SAKO L46 in 7x33

And here is the cartride:


I have to say that the Mosin above without maganine is mine. In fact, it still have an ordinary magazine but in some day i'll make it looks a like in picture.

If you are referring to the Mosin in Lancaster's post that has a flush magazine, please post additional pictures! Also, please post pictures of the interesting scope mount on that rifle.

Edited by CptCurl (16/01/10 12:20 AM)

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Carpetsahib
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: lancaster]
      #150590 - 14/01/10 01:42 AM

Quote:

thank you
the mauser style wing safety was a finish modification for cavalry carbines. it is not very common and was the most expensive part of the lot. bokmal was knowing this and find it on a finish gun show, again thank you bokmal for your help

Very interesting. If I understand the method of operation, the front of the safety has a lug that bears on the back of the bolt body. As the safety is turned over from the safe to the fire position, the lug is moved out of position and the rifle is ready to fire. Do you have to modify the bolt body to provide clearance? Additional pictures would be most welcome.

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Carpetsahib
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: lancaster]
      #150622 - 14/01/10 07:11 AM


Lancaster,

More information on this rifle, please.....Such as, details on the magazine modification, scope mount, caliber, etc. This is a great looking rifle, by the way!

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9.3x57
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Carpetsahib]
      #150640 - 14/01/10 01:26 PM

Yes, more details please. Very nice rifle.

The M-N is a sleeper.

Really impressive accuracy potential, too.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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mehulkamdar
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: lancaster]
      #150692 - 15/01/10 06:26 AM

Lancaster,

I worked in Russia a long time ago and not many Medved rifles were built even back then. I knew of one which was with a Duma member whom I met in 94, but have seen no other. I think the Medveds must have died out when the Russians switched to the 9.3x64 round for their Dragunov based hunting rifles from the mid 1990s onwards. I have heard about some Medved rifles in German collections but have not heard from any actual owner - if any are there, they must have been gifts to senior Communist Party members in east Germany in the Cold War years and they must have got sold since to whoever owns them now. It would be interesting to see what turns up in Bulgaria - it was a popular spot for senior Soviet officials to hunt bear in and some would have found their way there as you point out.

Lovely project and please keep the pictures and information coming. Maybe this could become an article for our E-zine?



Good hunting!

--------------------
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Mehul Kamdar

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Bokmal
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: lancaster]
      #150697 - 15/01/10 08:11 AM

Quote:

.only problem is that nobody exported the 16,6gramm Sako softpoint bullet, maybe bokmal can again make a packet for me this year.


How many do you want?

My friend Igorrock must have slipped on the keyboard; the bottlenecked 7x33 Sako looks like this (next to a .222 and a 7,62x39):



The history behind the 7x33 is that Sako experimented with what could be made with 9mm case machinery and brass stock. The 7x33 was the result. It was introduced with the L46 rifle (in Igorrocks pic) at a Fair in Stockholm in 1945. This was the only rifle ever factory chambered for this cartridge.

Edited by CptCurl (16/01/10 12:21 AM)

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Igorrock
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Bokmal]
      #150703 - 15/01/10 10:14 AM

You are right, Bokmal. My picture of 7x33 is uncorrect. I was little busy when setting that picture.

The hidden magazine for Mosin is still an idea in my head but sooner or later it will come to concrete form.

--------------------
http://promaakari.wordpress.com/

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Grenadier
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: lancaster]
      #150705 - 15/01/10 10:44 AM

Several years ago I handled one that was superbly executed. It had nice checkering, express sights, and was finished as you would expect a fine rifle to be finished. Your project could get interesting. Here is a picture of a sporter as food for thought.

Mosin Sporter

~

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9.3x57
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Grenadier]
      #150717 - 15/01/10 12:40 PM

Thanks Bokmal...

That 7x33 wasn't the one I knew, but wasn't sure enough to mention it.


As for the sporter, Grenadier, yes, another nice one.

I have hunted with the M-N. I shot a bear with one, but it was a 39 in military condition. A bear to lug around that rifle was!! They need a bit of trimming!

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: 9.3x57]
      #150761 - 15/01/10 09:14 PM

this also a unusual rifle worthy to note, the stock is not bad at all.


the little 7x33 is an interesting little plinking round, it must have his own advantage for the hunting situation it was intended. the 7mm bullet is maybe a big headache if you try to reload. I dont know if its in production, did you know it? is the little sako rifle a single shot or have it a magazin?
Igorrock,for another mosin magazin: C.G.Haenel have made M 88 sporting rifle's with a mauser zick-zack magazin, maybe this can also be done with a mosin. the mannlicher M 95 I post was noted to a have 3 shot magazin. doubtless someone has cut the original magazin.
My idea was to make a perfect finish hunting rifle. its all in the part's you have only make it visible.

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Edited by CptCurl (16/01/10 12:21 AM)

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Bokmal
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: lancaster]
      #150764 - 15/01/10 10:41 PM

Quote:

the little 7x33 is an interesting little plinking round, it must have his own advantage for the hunting situation it was intended.


It's main use was the bigger forest birds, Capercaillie and the Black Forest Grouse. I'm told that it still has a devout following as a Roe Deer cartridge in Norway and Sweden.

Quote:

the 7mm bullet is maybe a big headache if you try to reload. I dont know if its in production, did you know it?


It has been discontinued, NOS Sako ammo costs up to 2€/cartridge in the second hand market, if you can find them...

Quote:

is the little sako rifle a single shot or have it a magazin?


It has a detachable magazine. Around 6 000 L46 rifles were made; in 7x33, .222, .218 Bee and 25-20.

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lancaster
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Bokmal]
      #150771 - 16/01/10 12:09 AM

the 22 hornet is a serious hunting cartridge on roe deer if legal. and I dont forget the old german 6,5x27R, also developt as a small game cartridge for the different wood grouse.
the 6,5x27R was shooting a 5,3 gramm softpoint bullet at 480 m/sec and was used on roe deer also.
brass for the 7x33 can maybe made from the a little bit undersized 222 rem. such kind of reloading cartridges(8x63 swedisch from 30 06 brass) works not bad if you center the cartridge in the chamber with tape. I dont know if 5,45x39 brass is now in production, believe PRVI has anounce it once.
donelly wrote that the round use a 120 grain .284 bullet and similar stuff is available from 100 -120 grains. a nice little plinking cartridge
we have leaving the the 9,3x53R topic but my gunmaker wont be able before february to start

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Edited by lancaster (16/01/10 12:13 AM)

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: lancaster]
      #150789 - 16/01/10 04:16 AM

Thought this might help in your visualization. It is from a 1939 catalog. Note the dimensions of the stock in the upper left.



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Edited by CptCurl (17/01/10 01:06 AM)

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Grenadier]
      #150792 - 16/01/10 04:33 AM

thank you grenadier, this is indeed a good help

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: lancaster]
      #150822 - 16/01/10 09:57 AM

Here is some more pictures of my Mosin in "reality". I hope you can see the sidemount better. The trigger is made by TIMNEY for SAKO L461R and has a safety. My gunsmith converted Mosin to accept it.




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Edited by CptCurl (17/01/10 01:06 AM)

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Igorrock]
      #150871 - 17/01/10 02:39 AM

I'm ignorant of the Mosin Nagant action, is it a form of action similar to a Mannlicher?

Front locking?


Beautiful rifle Igorrock.

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Edited by NitroX (17/01/10 02:40 AM)

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Bokmal
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: NitroX]
      #150878 - 17/01/10 03:13 AM

Quote:

I'm ignorant of the Mosin Nagant action, is it a form of action similar to a Mannlicher?

Front locking?



Somewhat, and yes.



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Edited by CptCurl (17/01/10 03:58 AM)

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9.3x57
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: NitroX]
      #150882 - 17/01/10 03:32 AM

Quote:

I'm ignorant of the Mosin Nagant action, is it a form of action similar to a Mannlicher?

Front locking?


Beautiful rifle Igorrock.



Actually, you need to look at both the Lebel and the Mauser 71 and you will find features similar to the M-N. Remember, the Russian/Belgian engineering combination was fully cognizant of the contemporary features of other actions.

Front locking, detachable bolt head. Single-stack magazine with a rim unlocking device that prevents rim-over-rim rams. It is a 100% reliable action. Clubby, with a poor trigger design that requires much attention, but a very reliable and VERY accurate rifle system. See the Finn M85 updates in Palokangas' amazing tome on Finnish arms.

My personal experience with the M-N was with various Russian and Finnish remodles, in the field on varmints and a bear, under harsh weather conditions. This is an action that deserves far better than it gets, normally...we have some fellows here that are giving it its due!!!

As for the borrowing of other designs to make a good'un, another project is to open up an AK; see the clear "thieving" of Remington Model 8 and Garand designs. Kalashnikov "created" nothing. His genius was in combining the features of others into mechanical perfection.

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: 9.3x57]
      #150891 - 17/01/10 04:21 AM

The Mosin is not a mannlicher and I will try to show it first on the bolt . I am sorry for having not a M 86 –M 95 in the house because they repräsent the true mannlicher concept of a straight-pull action. Being a turnbolt action the M 91 inventor’s were knowing of course the french M 86 and the german M88 rifle.

First pic is showing the line from german M88 to swedisch Mauser M96 to M 98(wich we all love)


Second pic is showing the M66 Chassepot bolt, M86 Lebel Bolt, M91 Mosin bolt
The M 74 Gras bolt, standing between the M 66 and M 86 in any aspect is missing.


This kinds of bolts all have a separate head. This idea is coming to an end in the Mosin where the bolt is in my opinion only the carrier who transport the bolt head. This may sound a little bit extremely but it is the reason ,in my eye’s, the rifle is working in –50°C.


In no way we can say that the Mosin is having a Mannlicher Bolt. The straight-pull action from Ferdinand Ritter von Mannlicher will come back again in gun history 50 years later when we going into the field of semi and full auto rifle’s. the german M 88 also have a separate bolt head but this was the most criticized part of the whole rifle. The Mauser line never have it again and the Mannlicher M93/95, developt from the M 88 also don’t have it anymore.

The Mosin is also not a Mannlicher because it did not have a Mannlicher Magazin.
Mannlicher was not the first to use a box magazin(it was Lee and Russel) but was the first to be sucessful. The Carcano, the french Berthier, the german M 88 use the mannlicher magazin with packet clip loader. The Mosin have a very, very clever box magazin with stripper clips. A spring, a piece of steal (also eject the case) and a little screw handel and control the feed of the rimmed cartridge absoluty brilliant.








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Edited by CptCurl (17/01/10 05:05 AM)

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9.3x57
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: lancaster]
      #150892 - 17/01/10 04:27 AM

Lanc is right and I thought my post made that clear. His post is better, documenting the differences more in depth.

The Russian Mosin designed the bolt, the Belgian Nagant the magazine.

Note the similarities with the Lebel. Remember, too, the French and the Russians maintained close relationships doring the late 1800's.

lanc's last pic shows the cartridge interuptor perfectly.

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: 9.3x57]
      #150906 - 17/01/10 05:20 AM

Great info. Very interesting.

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Sarg
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Grenadier]
      #150931 - 17/01/10 09:43 AM

Great info & posts from our European members , thanks to all posters !

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Sarg]
      #150954 - 17/01/10 06:28 PM

I find that this is some very interesting stuff. Shouldn't see any reason why one would not get similar ballistics as to the 9.3x57mauser cartridge. Would be a natural for cast bullets. Especially with the long neck. Thanks for posting. Frank

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Bokmal
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: FrankS]
      #150961 - 17/01/10 09:00 PM

Thanks Lancaster! I learnt a lot about the heritage our Mosins build on! This is why I love forums like this

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Bokmal]
      #150973 - 18/01/10 01:18 AM

FrankS; yes, the 9,3x57 and 9,3x53R are pretty much ballistic twins. Some loads interchange.

Also, M-N chargers are very similar to Lee-Enfield chargers.

Igorrock, do you have any pictures of the modifications done to you action to take the Timney trigger?

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: lancaster]
      #150980 - 18/01/10 02:44 AM

The 9.3x53R Swiss was not limited to Martini actions. Here are two photos of a Schmidt&Habermann, Suhl, o/u combination gun with the rifle barrel so chambered. Proof date: June 1928. Boxlock, double underbolting, Kersten top fasteners.





Edited by CptCurl to display photos.

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Edited by CptCurl (18/01/10 08:13 AM)

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9.3x57
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: kuduae]
      #150981 - 18/01/10 03:02 AM

Again, let it be known the differences between the various 9,3 rim cartridges.

lancaster: I forget...what country are you in?

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: 9.3x57]
      #150998 - 18/01/10 06:22 AM

the true and only empire of evil

after some years in the biggest gun show ever, the net, I am not surprise to see this Bockbüchsflinte and also not surprise it was a german gun, better saying a Suhl made gun for the swiss market. but its equal rare to the Suhl made cap gun in 10,3x60R I seeing once.

this post have now 412 view with 41 replies, the older win 95 post have 1930views/55 replies. its remarkable how much interest the 9,3x53R generate. the gun industry developt a new series of super short magnum blabla rounds every year. importing the baikal singel shot rifle and the new made 9,3x53R Mosins from Russia seem's me a much better idea.
two years ago my knowledge about the mosin was what's today about the lee enfield.
close to zero!
it all come's with the cartridge that nobody realy know's but this situation is now change. and why not build a rifle? we all have seen this before http://www.rathcoombe.net/sci-tech/ballistics/custom_rifles/classic_mannlicher.html
for me it was a great inspiration: yes, we living in the plastic/stainless age but dont care about this

the 9,3x74R is the rimmed version of the 9,3x62 - the 9,3x53R is the rimmed version of the 9,3x57

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Edited by lancaster (18/01/10 07:21 PM)

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Igorrock
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: lancaster]
      #151001 - 18/01/10 07:59 AM

Sorry my poor fotografer skills but I hope these helps.





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Edited by CptCurl (18/01/10 08:17 AM)

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9.3x57
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Igorrock]
      #151017 - 18/01/10 10:58 AM

Igorrock; thanks very much. Very interesting!!

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Igorrock
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: 9.3x57]
      #151092 - 19/01/10 05:51 AM

Someone has made quite fine Mosin sporster in somewhere.:)













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Edited by CptCurl (19/01/10 06:04 AM)

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lancaster
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Igorrock]
      #151098 - 19/01/10 06:49 AM

where did you find this pics? its maybe 17 years ago that a local gun shop here had have a similar sporter in 7,62x54R, heavy engraved with oak leaves all over the action and scope, also the stock. scope mount was again a MS claw mount and it was feed from the original mosin magazin. the rifle was just perfect but I dont had enough interest and not realy care about this. dont know who made this work and where the rifle gone. this sporter here have a additional safety on the pistol grib and a modified magazin hiding in the stock. this make the shape of the stock not completly perfect.
such single row magazin's looking very good on M88 and Mannlicher sporting rifle's. in my opinion its not realy nessesary to change the mosin magazin.

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Paatti
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: 9.3x57]
      #151102 - 19/01/10 07:29 AM

Quote:

I wish I knew how to say "Excellent Post!!!" in Suomen!



Erinomainen postaus is proper way to say it in Suomeksi (not Suomen)

Very nice project indeed. Keep up the good work.

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Igorrock
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: lancaster]
      #151104 - 19/01/10 07:36 AM

Quote:

such single row magazin's looking very good on M88 and Mannlicher sporting rifle's. in my opinion its not realy nessesary to change the mosin magazin.



How about this ?

http://www.cabelas.com/gun-inventory---scarborough---fine-rifle---1009385-haenel-sca.shtml

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kuduae
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Igorrock]
      #151113 - 19/01/10 08:28 AM

Igorrock: The rifle offered by Cabela is not a converted M88 Sporter, but a Haenel Modell 1900, about as much related to an 88 as the Mannlicher-Schoenauer is. The M1900s are seldom seen nowadays and are mistaken for custom jobs on 88 military actions!

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: kuduae]
      #151115 - 19/01/10 08:48 AM

Yes I know that. I have seen somewhere in net very good pictures where HAENEL M1900's magazine has dismounted.
I just send link to that picture for idea m88 with hidden magazine.

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: lancaster]
      #152601 - 02/02/10 06:35 PM

Quote:

I hope to update this thread from time to time


Come on, Lancaster! We are all eagerly waiting for more!

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Bokmal]
      #152622 - 03/02/10 01:51 AM

I am very sorry bokmal, my gunmaker, who must made some works on the rifle(the gunlaw, you know?) was becoming ill on new years day and isnt on his feets till now.


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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: lancaster]
      #154744 - 25/02/10 06:32 AM

Have now make the last thing before the gunmaker can start his work. The barrel was coming with the wrong receiver from finnland. It was clear for me that a classic mosin sporter must have a hexagonal receiver. The russian’s have change produduction from hex to round in 1935/36 and the1938 dated round receiver with 3 different damage’s have to go.
The first one trying to unscrew the receiver was the gunmaker who was making the import for me. Because he wasn’t successful I was also trying this at home, nothing!
Last week I visit another gunmaker in my area and we try this with 3 man’s in his shop. The receiver doesn’t turn one milimeter. The gunmaker is giving such problems to a mechanic where the barrel can be fixed in a very big lathe. He was told me that this guy once unsrew a mauser receiver from the barrel that was fixed with an invisible welding point.
And in this way the old receiver was unsrewed in the end.

You see the traces from the three-jaw chuck on the barrel, the receiver was heatet, hammered und turn with brutal force


russian military stuff isn’t known for his well finish surface, need some hour’s to polish the barrel




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Edited by CptCurl (01/03/10 11:16 PM)

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Bokmal
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: lancaster]
      #154748 - 25/02/10 06:58 AM

Good that it finally came loose, this was becoming embarrasing... I never realized the barrel was that firmly mated to the receiver.

But, on with the show. We can now hope for more updates, nicht wahr?

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Bokmal]
      #154750 - 25/02/10 07:14 AM

sorry bokmal, no updates before april I fear, have to wait that the old master will be becoming healthy again. did I understand it rigth that you were figthing with this beast in finnland before and lost?
is it common for mosin barrels to being srew so strong?
have talk with the proof house in Suhl about this today. my plan was to send the barreled action first to the proof and start then with the stock when its back. the metallwork is than complete but in the white and I can finish the stock/action without problems.
but the proof house need some kind of stock to fix the rifle when fire. so I will make a rough " proof stock" just for this moment.

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Bokmal
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: lancaster]
      #154752 - 25/02/10 07:28 AM

Ok, we'll have to wait. Sigh...

Nope, I never tampered with the barrel and receiver when I had them here. The 9,3 barrel was obviously mated to the receiver sometimes post war in Finland (as the receiver is war booty). Why it would have been so 'permanently fixed' by some gunsmith I have no idea.

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Sarg
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Bokmal]
      #154754 - 25/02/10 07:43 AM

What a timely post , I just yesterday was taking the barrel off a VZ33 8X57 & almost screwed the action into , a hard fight all the way , well it turned out it had been drilled & tapped at some time INTO the barrel from the front ring & then some Wally had welded it up to cover the screw holes , as the rifle is in full military trim I never thought of that until after i saw the damged treads !

Thank you guys for another great tread !

Cheers

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lancaster
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Sarg]
      #154793 - 25/02/10 06:23 PM

can you use the parts or is it all for scrap box now?

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Sarg
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: lancaster]
      #154795 - 25/02/10 06:39 PM

I dont twist the action , just pushed the screws up through the welds & damaged the barrel threads a bit , I used a thread chasing file to repair barrel treads & will tig up holes & reblue !

Just being lazy , should have taken it out of the barrel vise & checked why it was so tight !

Its a pain to get into the vise & bolt on the action wrench .

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lancaster
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Sarg]
      #157448 - 25/03/10 08:16 PM

I talked with the proof house in Suhl if they need a stock for proofing a rifle and yes they need something like that for the the two shoots to made.
because my plan is to let the gunmaker screw the barrel into the action, control headspace, maybe solder the sigth's on the barrel and than make the proof before more work is involved I made a cheap "proof" stock. it was in all a good idea because the mosin action is a little bit tricky and I had the chance to make some small mistake's. if the action is in the stock you can see much better where wood can be left next time.
so mill the walnut stock now was maybe not fun but I was knowing that its the right way.




--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

Edited by CptCurl (28/03/10 01:30 AM)

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lancaster
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: lancaster]
      #169044 - 06/10/10 06:06 AM

I have got an 9,3x53R Sako box from Finland which was a big surprise. Bokmal found it for me in the shop of an old gunmaker.
Seems to be like any other Sako box but the cartridges have the headstamp "Lapua 9,3x53R". I can only assume that Sako and Lapua had have very close relation's in this time and Lapua was making brass for Sako because of some reason's. It don't look like the cartridge's were not original in this box. Only real difference to Sako headstamp cartridge's is a heavy crimp and annealed brass.





again the ballistic twins 9,3x53R and 9,3x57 side by side
same powder load, bullet and velocity

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

Edited by CptCurl (07/10/10 10:42 AM)

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Bokmal
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: lancaster]
      #169047 - 06/10/10 06:47 AM

Quote:

I have got an 9,3x53R Sako box from Finland which was a big surprise. Bokmal found it for me in the shop of an old gunmaker.


According to my wife I'm like a happy Truffles Pig when I get to burrow through old ammo boxes, odd stampings on receivers and other wonderful useless data...
Happy you like it!

--------------------
Born with the gift of laughter and a sense that the world is mad...

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FrankS
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Bokmal]
      #169360 - 11/10/10 04:59 PM

Lancaster, once again a very impressive post about the 9.3x57R. The question remains, will you have to open up the front part of the moisin magazine to accomodate the larger bullet. and if so please post the how-to's as to how its done. There was an article in the gun digest some years back that described some of the different cartridges that were developed using the 7.62x54R case as the basis.
Your rifle would make a good piggy rifle here in the south. Lotta piggy's running around causing a lot of damage. Thanks again, Frank And keep the updated comeing. Frank

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Bokmal
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: FrankS]
      #169369 - 11/10/10 06:13 PM

The M-N mag does need to have it's front opened up to accomodate the 9.3 mm bullets. I don't have a how-to for how this should be done, but here is the end result as done by my local gunsmith.





Edited by CptCurl (11/10/10 10:23 PM)

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lancaster
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Bokmal]
      #169386 - 12/10/10 06:18 AM

it was my impression that a little work with a file will be enough to make the 9,3x53R working into the mag of my action.
the bullet itself fit's but the case neck needs more space. how it end's with this project is only a question of time and patience.

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
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9.3x57
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: lancaster]
      #169391 - 12/10/10 01:31 PM

lancaster;

I can't speak for the filing, but I know of some that are hammered to fit.

I'm not sure if a mandrel of some kind is used?

This is really quite a wonderful project. I've long wanted a 9,3x53R but will likely have to enjoy the concept vicariously thru yours. I do have the duplicator of ballistics in the 9,3x57 with which I am, so far this year unsucessfully, chasing elk.

Keep posting.

I can't wait to see the whole thing; lock, stock and barrel.

--------------------
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: 9.3x57]
      #169445 - 13/10/10 04:59 AM

Good thread & project - lancaster, did you file the OCTAGONAL flats on the action, or find a sporter? I wasn't clear on that.
Hex is 6 sides with points on two opposing joints of flats whereas octagonal had 8 sides - flats all the way around - or interupted as on an action.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: DarylS]
      #169465 - 13/10/10 02:36 PM

this is the original form of a Mosin action and was changed to round receiver's in 1935/36 to make production cheaper. but I understand what you mean. this is a "look alike" octagonal receiver when it is in the stock. the invisible half is not worked this way so you will only have six side's around where 2 side's are not flat but rounded. so the common name for old receiver is "Hex".

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: lancaster]
      #174019 - 25/01/11 01:47 AM

My mosin project is not under a good star but patience is rewarded in the end. two days after the parts had arrived my old gunsmith got a heart attack and he is still bad.
He has not really been able to start working and I think about it to bring the parts to another gunmaker and hand over the work. Not real good style after all these years he has worked for me.

To keep the story alive I will show some pics that belong to this project. Last summer I visit an older gentleman here and asked him if he can make a Mannlicher Schönauer claw mount part for me. He had in the past often made such things for me because he has the machinery.
Coming into his living room to discuss the work with him finding trophies there lost long time ago as I believed. They belonged once to a German who had a farm in Togo before WW 1 and died in the 1950s.
. This man, a friend of my grandfather was known here under the nick name” ape hunter”.
A Phyton skin and the saw of a sawfish also survive the change of times.









My grandmother had have a big sea shell from this old farmer together with an cowry shell as a pair in the porcelain cupboard when I was a child. The African sea shell does not come to me but the cowry which is one of the things my great-grandfather was bringing back from the boxer rebellion in china in 1900.

Here with the ivory I have from him, maybe a cap for a rifle stock and gribs for a Walther TPH in the future.

So many things ended on the dump after the last war. My father is remembering another house here, the walls full with different African trophy’s and native arms.

Must be a priceless fun to load the peta guy’s to dinner having the chimp standing beside the table and make Norwegian steak’s with Chianti wine.





Anyone here having an idea what the chimpanzee will be worth today if its possible to get the CITES papers for it? The owner told me that the trophy is filled with old newspapers from before WW 1.

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

Edited by CptCurl (13/02/11 11:40 PM)

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Bokmal
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: lancaster]
      #174193 - 27/01/11 12:43 AM

Quote:

Seems to be like any other Sako box but the cartridges have the headstamp "Lapua 9,3x53R". I can only assume that Sako and Lapua had have very close relation's in this time and Lapua was making brass for Sako because of some reason's.


I've done some checking and Lapua did load ammo for Sako for a long time. Exactly when this ceased I do not (yet) know, but I have some Sako boxed 6,3x53R and 6,5x52R from the 1960'ies, all with Lapua stamped on the cases.

That Chimp reminds me of someone...??? ... could be some of the rap artists my godson listens to... they also seem to have a fondness for grabbing their balls in public...

--------------------
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lancaster
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Bokmal]
      #174204 - 27/01/11 04:06 AM

"That Chimp reminds me of someone...??? ... could be some of the rap artists my godson listens to... they also seem to have a fondness for grabbing their balls in public... "

this was a good one


if the matter once seriously considered it must be said that the ape holds his hand seemingly random before the balls. it all looks very natural and is really a very clever solution from the taxidermist. We must remember that in the year 1910 99% of all people never hear the dirty F word in public. And a husbands do not have the wife kissed in front of the children.
if the taxidermist do not want to give the ape a fig leaf in the hand to hold it before the balls he had to bring the hand in this position.

I will definitely have an eye on the ape, it is one of the things you no longer can buy for money.

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

Edited by lancaster (27/01/11 05:01 AM)

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FrankS
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: lancaster]
      #174446 - 30/01/11 05:48 PM

Bokmal, thanks for the picture of how the moisin magazine was altered to take the 9.3 cartridge. Its very much appreciated. Thanks Frank

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FrankS
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: FrankS]
      #174447 - 30/01/11 05:57 PM

lancaster, sorry to hear that your gunsmith had a heart attack. Here's wishing him a speedy recovery.
Somehow going through all the trials and tribulations will look like a bump in the road when you finally get to shoot your rifle. Interesting snake skin. I live in Louisiana and we do get some big snakes here. I have a shed out back where I keep the gardening tools,opened it up and a water moccasin must have went there to shed his skin. Good thing he wasn't there. They are poisinous and the nearest hospital is about 30 minutes away. That skin looks to have come from a rather large snake.
Keep the faith and hopefully one day soon we will all share with you your 9.3x53R moisin rifle. Regards, Frank

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lancaster
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: FrankS]
      #174468 - 31/01/11 03:41 AM

well, he is over seventy now but until he got this heart attack there was never a problem with him.
wish him the best.
it is very easy to hunt such a big phyton! only thing you need is a rigth feet and patience.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzR-L9WzEYI

being in contakt with cartridge collectors but till now I was not able to get only one of the russian cartridges.
this is my newest find in the www

the old LVE box, the cartridge is looking like a brass case or brass plated steel case???

the new LVE ammo


--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

Edited by CptCurl (13/02/11 11:41 PM)

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7mmSAKO
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: lancaster]
      #175466 - 13/02/11 11:56 PM

Here is my Mosin sporter in caliber 6,3x52R (.25-35) made by arms workshop Aarre Viitanen.
.25-35 was quite common caliber in small game rifles (Mauser 96, Mosins, Tikka H-45 and Valmet combination guns) after war years in Finland.
I can't wait for the black grouse season...



Bolt is modified for smaller rim



Edited by CptCurl (14/02/11 12:02 AM)

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lancaster
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: 7mmSAKO]
      #175478 - 14/02/11 04:51 AM

please show more pics from your mosin! I love such unusual caliber - rifle combinations.
have learned that this is a very typical postwar style for finish sporting rifles:

A german M 88 action with a barrel in 6,5x54 Kurz Mauser, maybe the last M 88 sporter ever made

a japanese Arisaka action with a 7x57 barrel

wonderful strange rifle's http://www.kerailyase.fi/Uutuudet.php

the Sako L 46 rifle in 7x33

http://www.ace-gun.com/product_details.php?p=1218

think this design looks equally good for hunting and target shooting

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

Edited by CptCurl (14/02/11 08:16 AM)

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rrrgcy
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: lancaster]
      #176883 - 10/03/11 04:35 AM

My recently completed Sporterized Mosin Nagant 91/30 "Express Safari" project, w 24" barrel recrowned, all reblackened, hand shaped/checkered walnut, rosewood tip and cap, and NECG sights.


Edited by CptCurl (17/03/11 09:04 PM)

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Bokmal
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: rrrgcy]
      #176884 - 10/03/11 04:39 AM

That is a good looking sporter, rrrgcy! Original caliber ,or...?

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500grains
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Bokmal]
      #176888 - 10/03/11 06:15 AM

Now that is a Mosin that I could get used to.

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9.3x57
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: 500grains]
      #176899 - 10/03/11 10:44 AM

Indeed! A beautiful rifle!!

Hard to believe it is related to this...



--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

Edited by CptCurl (17/03/11 09:05 PM)

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Bokmal
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: 9.3x57]
      #176908 - 10/03/11 05:57 PM

@9,3x57. That's a beautiful stock on your Finnish M/39. Looks like your rifle is in original configuration? Just out of curiosity, what stamps are there on the barrel shank?

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lancaster
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Bokmal]
      #176910 - 10/03/11 09:07 PM

btw bokmal, dont you had an offer for a Sako L 46 with a "mannlicher" full stock?
dont you get it? would like to see pics from this model, must be a very nice toy.

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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Bokmal
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: lancaster]
      #176911 - 10/03/11 09:21 PM

The owner, a (very) old forrester, has been elsewhere this winter. I hope to meet up with him later this spring to close the deal

He told me that he still has the original hunting diopter for it... can't wait!

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9.3x57
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Bokmal]
      #176913 - 10/03/11 10:51 PM

Bokmål;

I wish I could remember!

That picture was taken about 13 years ago and I sold my M/N collection not too long after this. It was a Valmet-built rifle w/ plum-colored, "B" barrel.

I had 38's, 91/30's, Finn 91, 28-30, 39 models. Great rifles.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: 9.3x57]
      #176914 - 10/03/11 11:05 PM

Ok, pity...

BTW, it's Bokmal (= bookworm), not Bokmål (Old style Norwegian language). But I'm impressed at your knowledge of Scandinavian terminology. Judging from your webnick you're no stranger to Scandinavian calibers either?

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Bokmal]
      #176919 - 11/03/11 12:49 AM

Sorry Bokmal!

Yeah, 6.5x55 and 9.3x57 are my favorites.

BTW: With that 39, after this pic was taken, to protect the barrel from rust and use because it was a plum blue, I painted it light green. Used it for a number of years and then before selling it, stripped the paint with Zip-Strip chemical paint remover. Barrel was perfect underneath and the plan worked well!

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: 9.3x57]
      #176934 - 11/03/11 03:10 AM

Thanks all, Parker Arms of PA did the metal and Old South Restoration of Dyersburg TN did the stock work. I'll need to calibrate the sights; now the fun begins lol. It's in original caliber.

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Story
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: rrrgcy]
      #182573 - 26/05/11 12:08 PM

A couple of guys working out how to convert the Mosin to feed .45-70
http://pharmory.blogspot.com/

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: rrrgcy]
      #182663 - 28/05/11 01:05 AM

rrrgcy,

Did you do this yourself, or did you get the rifle built for you? Very nice work, indeed! Thanks for sharing pics and hope to see more hunting pics from your great state!

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: mehulkamdar]
      #185325 - 07/07/11 12:35 AM

Lancaster: Any updates on your project?

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lancaster
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: BillfromOregon]
      #188025 - 17/08/11 05:03 AM

updates ?
last time when I visit the master 3 weeks ago he had the confirmation from Triebel guntools that they send him a 9,3x53r Fin. headspace gage for checking the barrel action combination before proof.


here it is and I am a little bit sorry it dont came before







http://www.kerailyase.fi/Mosin-9%2C3x53R.php

take it if you can! for 120 euro its the bargain of the month

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

Edited by CptCurl (20/08/11 01:48 AM)

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FrankS
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: lancaster]
      #188259 - 21/08/11 02:51 PM

Lancaster, Well it sure looks like the project that just about everyone here has been waiting for has come to fruition. I like it. Not too long a barrel nor too short. Are you going to use this rifle for hunting? Best wishes, Frank

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lancaster
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: FrankS]
      #188266 - 21/08/11 07:56 PM

oh, I am sorry when it was not clear!

the sporting rifle I post is offered in Finland now. please see the link to a this finnish dealer website.
if I had found such a rifle 2 years ago my own project have never started because I was happy with this.
I hope to bring my own mosin sporter back to finnland again for moose hunting in the future. very friendly country, nice people, like them very much.

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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FrankS
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: lancaster]
      #188738 - 28/08/11 03:07 PM

OK,so I'm guessing that your moisin is still "in the working stage" and not finished yet.
I think a lot of the membership will love to see the finished project, I know I would. Frank

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lancaster
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: FrankS]
      #189549 - 09/09/11 11:54 PM

Quote:

I think a lot of the membership will love to see the finished project, I know I would. Frank



your wish is my command and the adventure continues

I visit my gunmaker today and the barrel is now officialy married with the action




just coming back from the proof house in Suhl the biggest step is taken. to my surprice, because its not in the list, Triebel Guntools in germany had have a complete set of tools - headspace gauge and chamber reamer and this was realy necessary because headspace was way out of specs.
we were talking now about the whole concept and the gunmaker have +/- 4 weeks to solder the open sights on the barrel and make the claw mount. when the scope is ready I will see it again. last step is to bent the bolt and when this is done I get the rifle in the white back home to make the stock.

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

Edited by CptCurl (23/11/11 11:31 PM)

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Bokmal
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: lancaster]
      #189550 - 10/09/11 01:40 AM

I'm really happy this project is moving forward!

What style of stock are you planning on?

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lancaster
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Bokmal]
      #189554 - 10/09/11 03:31 AM

you know that it was allways planned as a counterpart to my Husqvarna M 46 because I am vey pleased with the classic style they found. only difference would be the pistol grib with a cap. its much easier to find a good form with a grip cap than making a good rounded pistol grip.



so it will probably looking a little bit more than a Husqvarna M 146



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Edited by CptCurl (23/11/11 11:31 PM)

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7mmSAKO
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: lancaster]
      #190223 - 19/09/11 04:14 PM

Quote:

please show more pics from your mosin! I love such unusual caliber - rifle combinations.
have learned that this is a very typical postwar style for finish sporting rifles:




Most interesting finnish made militaryrifle sporter that I have seen was Gewehr-98 rebarreled for 7,62x55. It used swedish-mauser case opened for 7,62 bullet. Im not sure if the chambering was 7,5x54 MAS or some gunsmiths own wildcat. Owner said that the conversion was made before WW2.
Sadly the rifle was rebarreled to .308 win.

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lancaster
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: 7mmSAKO]
      #193140 - 06/11/11 02:44 PM

very interesting sporting rifle in finland. what we see on the pics it must be a romania mannlicher M 93 action. probably build by Sako its chambered in 9,3x53R and use the Mannlicher M 95 clip. remember that the 8x50R Mannlicher and the 7,62x54R have a very similar rim/ base diameter.
must have been one of the romania military rifle's captured from austria in WW 1 and rebuild for the 8x50R by Steyr. than comes to finland and sporterized after WW 2.
sometimes its a long way
igorrock is working to get this rifle, good luck









finally Bokmal found a original and complete russian cartridge box for my collection in Finland. its not in my hands just know but I am very happy about it. this is truly the white elephant of the cartridge collectors.
and again with brass case so it seems right that the old production was made with brass when the new LVE ammo have copper plated steel cases.





--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
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bringing civilisation to the barbarians

Edited by CptCurl (23/11/11 11:32 PM)

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Bokmal
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: lancaster]
      #195735 - 04/12/11 08:52 PM

Have you had time to work on this project? :-)

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Bokmal]
      #195758 - 04/12/11 11:27 PM

see the Mosin last tuesday, not so much happen till now. the gunmaker is looking for the end of next february. its a lot of work now and we two have a special agreement: I dont make him pressure and he make me a good price.

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: lancaster]
      #197752 - 25/12/11 12:29 AM

do you know the feeling when collecting something special and only one thing is missing to be complete?
this post starts two years ago and I hope you not finding it boring till now. the rifle isnt ready but like two years ago I get a package from finland with very rare things:














its the green-white ammo box, LVE 9,3x53R made in 1970. surprisingly its labeled only in english
seems to be someone there had have a cristal ball in 1970. so the only cartridge box I miss now is the new LVE ammo.
being a strong suporter of the one load for a rifle concept the ligther russian bullet looks like a good idea for roe deer or whitetail deer in Finland and let the original sako bullet for moose.

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Edited by CptCurl (26/12/11 10:13 PM)

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tinker
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: lancaster]
      #197761 - 25/12/11 02:47 AM

Nice!







Cheers
Tinker

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: tinker]
      #197770 - 25/12/11 07:57 AM

So they arrived in time for Christmas?

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Bokmal]
      #197806 - 25/12/11 09:27 PM

I think it might well be possible to sell the cartridges for 20 euros per round to hardcore cartridge collector's so you did not the best business bokmal
the english labeled box is a mystery, isnt it?

the sako stock for Mosin's also coming



I remember that here is a another pics of an old russian ammo box and its still in russian


the only market for this cartridge was finland so my only explanation is that they make a special "export" box

rare exports, for sure
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RQlikX4vvw

the 9,3x53R would be a good choice

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Edited by CptCurl (26/12/11 10:13 PM)

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Bokmal
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: lancaster]
      #197809 - 25/12/11 09:36 PM

Quote:

I think it might well be possible to sell the cartridges for 20 euros per round to hardcore cartridge collector's so you did not the best business bokmal


The help and friendship you've given over the years are worth much more!

Quote:

the english labeled box is a mystery, isnt it?


My assumption is it is because it could not be imported to Finland or elsewhere without english labeling. Why they've chosen to call it 9mm intead of 9.3mm and x53 instead of x54 is beyond me

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Bokmal]
      #197814 - 25/12/11 11:50 PM

Quote:

Why they've chosen to call it 9mm intead of 9.3mm and x53 instead of x54 is beyond me


Simple, because they named "their" cartridge in the old European fashion not for the bullet, but for the bore diameter, sans rifling grooves. Remember, Their "9mm Makarov" pistol cartridge uses .365" bullets, so it is actually a 9.3mm too. Or, the European "6.5mm" numbers use .264" = 6.7mm, the "7mm"s .284" = 7.2mm, the "8mmS" .323" = 8.2mm bullets. The maximum length of the 9.3x53R Finnish (CIP name)is 53.3mm, so "53" is a more apt designation.

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9.3x57
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: kuduae]
      #197819 - 26/12/11 02:13 AM

Beat me to it!

Thanks kuduae.

In addition, the light 9mm Mak FMJ bullets make for grouse loads in the 9.3 rifles. Maybe won't work too well in some of the overbore Swedes, but should go well with true .366 rifles. A load of fast burning pistol powder should take care of it, and if you like, a "Cat's Sneeze" load is another option.

Also, if you look back many years, I think you will find other USSR sporting arms marketed in English, too. IIRC, I've seen various ammo and even the Medved was marketed with English material, tho I cannot verify the latter. Also, I am not aware of any sale of the 9x53 Medved in any English country at at any time. Maybe somebody knows? I remember reading about it when I was a young man and thinking "The Commies really have something here...wish I could get one!"

lanc; I am fascinated by your whole thread. I wrote piece for Wolfe Publishing in the early 90's on the M/N and had a collection of them, and really came to respect them. I always wanted a 9,3x53R but never got around to building one...then met the 9,3x57's and gave up on the idea. Your whole project is absolutely fascinating with its resurrection of this great old idea. And I'm sure the end result will be worthy of much shooting and piles of Moose, too!

Fröhliche Weinachten und auch Waidmansheil, natürlich!

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Bokmal
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: kuduae]
      #197833 - 26/12/11 06:15 AM

Quote:

The maximum length of the 9.3x53R Finnish (CIP name)is 53.3mm, so "53" is a more apt designation.


Danke Kuduae! What you say about calibers makes sense.

But still, the x53R case designation is not that clear (not that it makes much of a difference, either). The russians have always designated their old military ammo 7,62x54R while we Finns used 7,62x53R for what is essentially an identical cartridge. I know that many claim that there actually should be a 0,5 mm difference in case lenght, but in reality it often is not there. That's why I wondered why they chose the x53R for a civilian round.

@Lancaster, what is the actual case length?

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Bokmal]
      #197834 - 26/12/11 07:32 AM

I do not know if this has anything to do with the x53R noemclature choice, but when you expand a case to receive a larger diameter bullet, the case "shortens" {just like occurs when I neck up 8x57 cases to 9.3 caliber}. Who knows, maybe the Russian engineers measured the x54R case after an experimental trial of the 9.3 {"9mm"} round and just called it "x53R" as a result.

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Bokmal
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: 9.3x57]
      #197835 - 26/12/11 07:55 AM

Quote:

Who knows, maybe the Russian engineers measured the x54R case after an experimental trial of the 9.3 {"9mm"} round and just called it "x53R" as a result.


Could well be the case... I guess we'll never know for sure...

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Bokmal]
      #197863 - 27/12/11 03:59 AM

I am sorry for being late

CIP maximun lenght 53,30mm

for the 7,62x54R and also the 7,62x53R which also exist in the list the maximum case length are the same 53,50 mm for both.
cartridge designation isnt logic!

the Sako brass is 52,85mm

the LVE brass is 52,74mm

remember that the list giving maximum measurments for the cartridges. the factorys will be allways under this and different lots will shows some small difference also when made in the same year.

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: lancaster]
      #197866 - 27/12/11 05:30 AM

My list shows a working pressure of 57,000PSI CIP Pezio for the 7.62x54. I assume this is for the MN rifle.

Hmmm - might have to pick one of those up from Tradex - under $200.00 seems to me. Might make a good sporter and brass is easy to get here. Easy re-barrel and chamber to 9.3x54 as well. Something to think about.

Since gives .30/06 performance in 7.62, if 9.3 or 9.5, should match .35 Whelen through 9.3x62 and .376/06 as well. No flies there.

Intersting rounds and food for thought, tks lancaster.

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: DarylS]
      #197870 - 27/12/11 06:16 AM

Is there any idea to re-barrel Siam Mauser to 9,3x53R ?

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Bokmal
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: DarylS]
      #197873 - 27/12/11 06:38 AM

Quote:

Hmmm - might have to pick one of those up from Tradex - under $200.00 seems to me. Might make a good sporter and brass is easy to get here. Easy re-barrel and chamber to 9.3x54 as well. Something to think about.


If you do, please use a refurbished M/91-30, not any rarer variant! Pretty please!

Quote:

Since gives .30/06 performance in 7.62, if 9.3 or 9.5, should match .35 Whelen through 9.3x62 and .376/06 as well. No flies there.


My (Finnish) reloading manuals gives the 9.3x53R performance in between the 9,3x57 and the 9.3x62. I think a 9.5x53R would have serious problems in equalling the .376/06 with heavier bullets.

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Bokmal]
      #197888 - 27/12/11 09:02 AM

Depends on the actual capacity of the case. At 57,000 psi, there's some room for experimentation.

I don't have a list on the 9.3x53R's currently loaded pressure.

here's an add.

Mosin Nagant M91/30 with Laminated stock. Each rifle comes with bayonet, sling, ammo pouch, cleaning kit and oiler. Overall very good to excellent condition, arsenal refinished. $169.00

$225.00 for the ones listed as Ex-sniper rifles. They do not say if drilled and tapped for side mounts.

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"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: DarylS]
      #197913 - 27/12/11 04:02 PM

max. pressure:

9,3x53R Finland 3400 bar

9,3x53R Swiss 1800 bar

9x57R 2500 bar

9x56 Mannlicher Schönauer 2400 bar

9x57 Mauser 2500 bar

9,3x57 2600 bar

if the 3400 bar is rigth its very high and the factory load will not use this. I for myself orient on this:




having sevenhundred 16,6 gramm Sako bullets I hope in the end that the identical load of N 140 will shot in the Husqvarna and in the Mosin .

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Edited by CptCurl (27/12/11 11:21 PM)

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Bokmal
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: lancaster]
      #197928 - 27/12/11 09:01 PM

A friend of a friend pointed out that the Russian 9x53 is really an 9,22 and not a 9,3!
Check linked (Russian) document HUNTING CARTRIDGE 9X53. TYPES AND BASIC DIMENSIONS

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: lancaster]
      #197931 - 28/12/11 01:10 AM

Lancaster;

A Doctor from Colorado, USA, over on the Swedish Commerical Arms forum had a 9,3x53R built and also had a 9,3x57. He did quite a number of comparison tests with them both and found them to be virtually identical in his guns. IIRC, he used the exact same loads in each.

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: 9.3x57]
      #197950 - 28/12/11 05:02 AM

I forgot to write down the 'x' bar = 'x' psi multiplier - anyone remember it?

Dividing 57,000 by 3,400 gives 16.76 but that is not the number provided (I don't think) in the other thread - or was it this one?

57,000 is the CIP PSI given for the 9.3x54R on the chart I have.

My chart also shows the 9.3x57 to be loaded by Norma at 43,000PSI. Working backwards from the above listing in bar, the 16.76 multiplier gives 43,566 at the 9.3x57's pressure. Close enough, I guess to my chart. Note the 9.3x57 does not have any CIP standards however we've come to use 8x57 data and headspace for it. The 8x57's pressure is not used for the 9.3x57 as the 8x57's max. pressure is 57,000PSI CIP.

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Edited by Daryl_S (28/12/11 05:12 AM)

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lancaster
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: DarylS]
      #197952 - 28/12/11 05:29 AM

the bullet diameter of the russian version I found once was 9,25mm and iirc thats .365
also the bullet diameter for the 9mm Makarov. there is no problem with a .366 bullet in a .365 barrel! think about the 404 jeffery - .423 and the 10,75x68 -.424 diameter where barrels of both diameter were used for both cartridges.


when you measure factory bullets of a given diamter its common to found them smaller than expected. not all but many
I load to many obsolete cartridges that I need so much standardisation as possible.

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: lancaster]
      #198183 - 31/12/11 10:05 AM

I was doing some research on Ibex hunts & found a chap on another site who hunts them & look what he has been using !!!

A Mosin !!



Edited by CptCurl (03/01/12 07:39 AM)

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Carcano
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: kuduae]
      #198305 - 01/01/12 12:30 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Why they've chosen to call it 9mm intead of 9.3mm and x53 instead of x54 is beyond me


Simple, because they named "their" cartridge in the old European fashion not for the bullet, but for the bore diameter, sans rifling grooves.



Very correct, Kuduae. The Russian military version of the 9,3x64 (used as a sniper cartridge in the SVDK, and loaded by LVE Novosibirsk) is called "9x64"; yet it uses the same bullet diameter.

Carcano

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Carcano]
      #198381 - 02/01/12 02:19 AM

its true for the 7,62x54R also which must have a 7,62mmm bore to a 7,87mm groove diameter. when we remember that the 9x57 have a bullet diameter of 9,08mm and the 9,3x72R have a maximum bullet diameter of 9,57mm there is at least some kind of a system in the russian style.

I am not a fan of plastik stocks and weaver mounts Sarg but the rifle you have post looks very good and it did the job as you say. must have been a dragunov muzzle break and together with the very pc bended bolt it have some elegance.
got work and miles away from the bubba victims.

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Edited by lancaster (02/01/12 02:19 AM)

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333_okh
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Sarg]
      #198666 - 04/01/12 12:36 PM

Quote:

I was doing some research on Ibex hunts & found a chap on another site who hunts them & look what he has been using !!!

A Mosin !!









I like the ballistics charts on the stock. I used to keep them on a short barreled [16/5"] 308 as well. Thing dropped like a stone past 300 yards.

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333_okh
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: 333_okh]
      #199883 - 18/01/12 03:41 PM

So my ISSUE: I have a Mosin Nagant action made in 1895 by French Chatellerault. I is now an M39 Finn with a fabulous SAKO barrel. NO STOCK.

Where do I go what do I do? NO PLASTIC?

http://forums.gunboards.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=493399&d=1324437760

http://forums.gunboards.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=493396&d=1324437767

Replacement stocks are in bad shape, and although best in the Mosin line for design, still leaves a lot to be desired, BUT this old girl is 117 years old just like the action of the owner for this thread? Must do it justice.

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Bokmal
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: 333_okh]
      #199885 - 18/01/12 04:20 PM

333 okh, I think you'll find some quite nice custom stock ideas in this thread. Mosin sporter stocks are available every now and then on eBay, eGun, Richards Microfit, from Finland etc. etc. I once got a really nice Bishop MC for the Mosin from a gentleman in Dallas.

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333_okh
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Bokmal]
      #199970 - 19/01/12 02:42 PM

Quote:

333 okh, I think you'll find some quite nice custom stock ideas in this thread. Mosin sporter stocks are available every now and then on eBay, eGun, Richards Microfit, from Finland etc. etc. I once got a really nice Bishop MC for the Mosin from a gentleman in Dallas.



I am looking for Finnish classic designs for the Mosin or military. I will look over this more.

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333_okh
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: lancaster]
      #199972 - 19/01/12 03:01 PM

Quote:

I think it might well be possible to sell the cartridges for 20 euros per round to hardcore cartridge collector's so you did not the best business bokmal
the english labeled box is a mystery, isnt it?

the sako stock for Mosin's also coming



I remember that here is a another pics of an old russian ammo box and its still in russian


the only market for this cartridge was finland so my only explanation is that they make a special "export" box

rare exports, for sure
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RQlikX4vvw

the 9,3x53R would be a good choice



I am re-reading this whole thread...

Question: Was this a SAKO sporter stock made for Mosin rifles?

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Bokmal
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: 333_okh]
      #199976 - 19/01/12 03:26 PM

Quote:

I am looking for Finnish classic designs for the Mosin or military. I will look over this more.


If you're looking for an original M/39 stock including fittings I can probably help. The Tamarms gun show is coming up in about 1 months time, the Arma Aboa in April. These two are among the best to source Finnish Mosin stuff. A complete stock with all fittings goes for 75 +/- 25 euros (depending on condition and general luck). Up to 200 euros more for an original bayonet. There were over 50,000 M/39 made but only 10,000 bayos...

Quote:

Question: Was this a SAKO sporter stock made for Mosin rifles?


Yes. Sako factory sporterized Mosins for a few years immediately post war in the calibers 5.6x53R, 6.3x53R, 7x53R, 7.62x53R, 8.2x53R and 9,3x53R. Sako factory ammo for all these were made with the 8.2 and 9.3 still available.

Sako had a couple of designs for civilian sporter stocks, Lancasters example is a late 1940ies model.

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lancaster
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Bokmal]
      #199989 - 19/01/12 06:28 PM

btw, the stock looks a little bit different now. I remove the thick varnish and make it a little bit more classic. good example why not having varnish on a gunstock. wet was coming in the wood, and it will allways find the way, and "blue" it a little bit.




when the barreled action is in the stock I will trim the forearm much more.






because there was a small crack I make a special screw that goes through the rear part( macking it unbreakable as I hope). the rear action screw will be drilled through the head of this stock screw.






--------------------
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.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

Edited by CptCurl (23/01/12 12:38 AM)

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333_okh
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: lancaster]
      #200120 - 20/01/12 04:29 PM

I have one person locally that has a new never issued m39 stock. I was going to have his duplicated. That SAKO stock I like. ARGH...this get so confusing...my custom was even easier!

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Cashman
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: 333_okh]
      #200245 - 22/01/12 05:06 AM

Might not be the best sporting rifle project but…

My new found friend "Bokmal" asked me to post this... so blame him if this sucks...

It all started as a joke… My friend and I were playing around with the thought of making a “big game rifle” based on a Mosin Nagant. My friend is a Mosin collector and has a vast knowledge in this excellent piece of machinery. The idea was to create an ideal weapon for elk hunting in Finland. Both of us are hunting in areas thick with vegetation and quite short shooting distances. We decided on the .458 as the bullet diameter. We had considered both .45-70Gmnt and .450Marlin, but both would have required a lot of work on both bolt and action. The caliber, for our project, would become .45x54R and be based on the 7,62x53R. This meant that we wouldn´t have to do any changes on the bolt, only the magazine body.

This caliber, was no new invention, because there have been guns registered in Finland in calibers that are very similar to ours. For example 11,6x55R made by Erkki Maekinen and .458x53R Gunhill made by Jarmo Kauppinen. I´m sure, that other similar calibers exist. Maekinen used an old Arisaka model 30 as base and Kauppinen the “Russian” Winchester model 1895. As Maekinen´s 11,6x55R, also our .45x54R, was to be made using case-blanks from Sako. These Sako case-blanks where marked 12,4x55R and picked out of the production line before they would be necked down to 7,62x53R . Ours would be shortened to 54mm. Kauppinen used both Sako case-blanks and 9,3x53R caliber cases which he necked up to fit a .458 bullet. Reloading of brass, would be done using 45-70Gvmnt reloading dies.

The idea was to get the same effect out of our caliber as from the hottest .45-70Gvmnt loads. This is certainly possible because the parent case 7,62x53R tolerates higher pressure than the .45-70Gvmnt, even though the .45-70Gvmnt case has a volume advantage of 3%. Testing in this matter is still on-going, but the little testing we have done, suggests that .45x54R is a very potential caliber. So far I have been able to get 2200fps from a 300grain Hornady Interlock HP bullet, without any pressure indications what so ever. This is more than enough to kill anything one might encounter in the Finnish forest. One of the advantages, compared with the .45-70, is that we don´t have to seat the heavier bullets all the way to the crimp-groove, thus leaving more room for gunpowder.


(From left to right: 400gr Remington CoreLokt modified to RN, Hornady 300gr HP modified to Semi-SPTZ, an expanded 9,3x53R case with a H&N 300gr)

Enough about the caliber... more about the gun…

My friend bought a box of Finnish Mosin Nagant parts from a gunfair in Tampere. That box included the bolt, reciever and magazine body and it only cost 60euros. My friend already had a complete reciever with parts for himself. He also found a second hand .458 barrel from a 45-90 black powder rifle for himself. I found my barrel on-line on a website for hunters in Finland. It was a new barrel made by Erkki Maekinen. Both barrels have the same 16´ twist, but my friend has a longer (barrel!!)…

I modified my magazine body simply by cutting it open and straightening out the grooves for the shoulder and expanding it in the front end. Then all was welded together by a professional welder. The magazine body now fits 4 bullets and one can empty it the normal way, by opening the floorplate. The magazine body was sandblasted, to get rid of old tool marks and scratches and finally blued.



The barrel and other parts were sent to a gunsmith, Alpo Tapper, in Lannevesi near Jyvaeskylae in Finland. Alpo also made the reamer for the .45x54R. The headspace gauges are the same for the 7,62x53R, so he didn´t have to worry about them. He modified the bolt handle to look like it was from a TAK-85 and also made a ring safety cocking knob. The side-mount with a weaver rail he machined from a piece of metal. This is his design and is firmly attached with two hefty screws. This design makes the otherwise “soft” Mosin receiver a little bit steadier, improving accuracy, not that it much matters in a caliber like this.





After a mandatory test-shooting in Riihimaeki (at the old Sako factory where the police test-shooting lab is), I finally got all the pieces home and could start putting everything together. By that time I had also received the stock I had ordered from Boyd´s Gunstocks. It took me quite a lot of elbow grease and a lot of sandpaper, to get the barrel to fit the stock that was made to fit an original Mosin in caliber 7,62x53R. I finally got it fitted though. A mounted a Tikka Pro Gold 1,75-6x22 on it with a pair of Quick-Site weaver rings and was itching for a test shoot…





After the test shoot I ended up fixing the stock and fitting a proper recoil plate in the stock. That because the stock split in half just after 10 shots. This is fixed now and I´ve also made proper bedding with Acraglass Gel. The stock splitting could have been avoided, but when you have an itch… you just have to scratch…

This one might kick like a mule, but is still very nice to shoot. Much softer recoil, i might add, than the 9,3x53R Finnish!!!

Edited by CptCurl (23/01/12 12:43 AM)

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Bokmal
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Cashman]
      #200249 - 22/01/12 05:22 AM

Welcome to our merry bunch of Mosinistas, DCCGS!
Thanks for sharing!

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Cashman
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Bokmal]
      #200252 - 22/01/12 05:36 AM

Don´t mention it... You´re to blame for it...

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Igorrock
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Cashman]
      #200264 - 22/01/12 10:24 AM

Welcome to forum, Mr Cashman ! There is never too many who likes custom Mosins.

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http://promaakari.wordpress.com/

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Cashman
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Igorrock]
      #200302 - 22/01/12 07:06 PM

Yes about that... the username "cashman" was taken or otherwise not allowed, that´s why DCCGS..

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Cashman
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: 333_okh]
      #200313 - 22/01/12 09:42 PM

Quote:

Quote:

333 okh, I think you'll find some quite nice custom stock ideas in this thread. Mosin sporter stocks are available every now and then on eBay, eGun, Richards Microfit, from Finland etc. etc. I once got a really nice Bishop MC for the Mosin from a gentleman in Dallas.



I am looking for Finnish classic designs for the Mosin or military. I will look over this more.



I´ll just jump right in and start barking out advises..

The problem with the customized sporter stocks made to fit a Mosin, is that they are hard to come by. When you find one, the owner knows it´s value and doesn´t want to sell it or wants a ridiculous price for it or only sell the whole gun and not only the stock.

Sako spoterized some Mosins (I have one in 8,2x53R… I´ll try to find a picture) and they are very good and of high quality, but next to impossible to find second hand. No one in their right mind would part from one and put a piece of plastic instead…

I´ve also seen lots of different types of handmade target rifle stocks for sale, but most are useless for hunting purposes…

If I was to start a Mosin project in an original caliber, I would buy one of these: http://www.boydsgunstocks.com/BOYDS-CLASSIC-MOSIN-NAGANT-p/200-358.htm ... and then modify it to look like it was made by Sako… or whatever. The inletting is the hardest part and this way one wouldn´t have to spend a lot of lime on it…

Just an idea...

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lancaster
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Cashman]
      #200330 - 23/01/12 02:37 AM

hello cashman

nice to see the biggest version now

"This caliber, was no new invention, because there have been guns registered in Finland in calibers that are very similar to ours. For example 11,6x55R made by Erkki Maekinen and .458x53R Gunhill made by Jarmo Kauppinen. I´m sure, that other similar calibers exist. Maekinen used an old Arisaka model 30 as base and Kauppinen the “Russian” Winchester model 1895. As Maekinen´s 11,6x55R, also our .45x54R, was to be made using case-blanks from Sako. These Sako case-blanks where marked 12,4x55R and picked out of the production line before they would be necked down to 7,62x53R . Ours would be shortened to 54mm. Kauppinen used both Sako case-blanks and 9,3x53R caliber cases which he necked up to fit a .458 bullet. Reloading of brass, would be done using 45-70Gvmnt reloading dies."

did I understand right that the sako brass is headstamped 12,4x55R? never heard or see this before. was it ever an "official" brass case. iirc Norma had sold once 30 06 basic brass that was cylindrical. a good idea if you have a 10,75x57 but unfortunately not available anymore. would like to have one of this basis brass cases for my small collection.
will this case also accept a .475 diameter bullet?

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

Edited by lancaster (23/01/12 02:37 AM)

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Cashman
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: lancaster]
      #200334 - 23/01/12 03:52 AM

Quote:

hello cashman

did I understand right that the sako brass is headstamped 12,4x55R? never heard or see this before. was it ever an "official" brass case...
will this case also accept a .475 diameter bullet?



Now, when I read my own text, I understand why you would think that...
Sorry if I explained it poorly. The BOX, that the cases come, in is stamped with 12,4x55R, NOT the case itself. The case has only the Sako stamp and is otherwise plain. It has never been an official case.

Lapua made an even longer version they used for the “12x75R squirrel shotgun” but haven´t made them for a while. Igorrock might know more about that since (if I remember correctly) he shot his first squirrel with one of those shotguns. Don´t know if that was an official caliber either. There were quite a few shotguns made from Mosins after the war.

Whether this case can be fitted with a .475 bullet, I don´t know, but it would be quite a straight cartridge and thus hard to get to work properly in a bolt action rifle. I´m only guessing though…

I have found an official source that can provide me with a few more cases, but after that I´m sad to say, that even I have to start using expanded 9,3x53R cases. Neither Sako nor Lapua makes them anymore, but there are still lots of them around.

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lancaster
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Cashman]
      #200344 - 23/01/12 05:14 AM

I am familar with the 12x75R shotgun cartridge concept.
understand that someone grab this brass you mentioned out of the factory like the primed 22 lr cases you find sometimes.

you would be to short with 9,3x53R brass open up to .458 but you will allready know this. two weeks ago I was making 10,75x52R brass from 8x56R and 53mm was the maximum left over from the 56mm it starts. I am dare to say you would not get more than 51mm from a x53R case.



--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

Edited by CptCurl (23/01/12 10:42 PM)

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Igorrock
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: lancaster]
      #200348 - 23/01/12 06:32 AM

Quote:

he shot his first squirrel with one of those shotguns.


Actually, there was no squirrels, at age of fifteen I shot first two of my wood grouses with 12,0x75 mm Mosin shotgun :-)

This Mosin was made by Westinghouse factory in USA, modified to shotgun after II WW in Jyväskylä, maybe in Tourula factory. LAPUA factory made these cases shortly after wartime.

Nowadays this Shotgun is in The Hunting Museum of Finland, Riihimäki.

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Cashman
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: lancaster]
      #200349 - 23/01/12 06:51 AM

Quote:

I am familar with the 12x75R shotgun cartridge concept.
understand that someone grab this brass you mentioned out of the factory like the primed 22 lr cases you find sometimes.

you would be to short with 9,3x53R brass open up to .458 but you will allready know this. two weeks ago I was making 10,75x52R brass from 8x56R and 53mm was the maximum left over from the 56mm it starts. I am dare to say you would not get more than 51mm from a x53R case.



If I would start with an 8,2x53R or a 7,62x53R that would certainly be the case. I´ve already made some 30 of .45x54R (52R) cases out of 9,3x53R cases and the medium length is closer to 52 than 51. This doesn´t matter since that is long enough and works for practice shots... After them firing the first time, the cases had fireformed and “grown” additionally a few tenths of a millimeter.

You are right they are not 52mm, but let´s not split hears. The actual “trim-to-length” for the .45x54R is 53,8mm, but I still call it an x54R.

Regarding the grabbing of brass from the production line. I don´t know how it´s done, but I know that who-ever does it, does it with the permission from Sako and with good intentions... I wrote to Norma and Lapua to ask if they could help us. Norma replied shortly "No" and Lapua I haven´t heard from since. Mayde I asked the wrong person at Lapua.

A small private company in Germany offered to help me make cases from scratch, but I would have had to order by the thousands… The price wasn´t too bad though… http://www.huelsen-horneber.de/rechts_engl.html.

Edited by DCCGS (23/01/12 07:06 AM)

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Cashman
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Igorrock]
      #200351 - 23/01/12 06:57 AM

Quote:

Quote:

he shot his first squirrel with one of those shotguns.


Actually, there was no squirrels, at age of fifteen I shot first two of my wood grouses with 12,0x75 mm Mosin shotgun :-)

This Mosin was made by Westinghouse factory in USA, modified to shotgun after II WW in Jyväskylä, maybe in Tourula factory. LAPUA factory made these cases shortly after wartime.

Nowadays this Shotgun is in The Hunting Museum of Finland, Riihimäki.



OK... Squirrels schqirrels... close enough!! It was something up high and flying or something..

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lancaster
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Cashman]
      #200934 - 29/01/12 01:14 AM

still waiting for the end of february I working on my Sako stock. it came with plastic caps on butt end and pistol grip and I managed to get replacement parts.
the butt plate was without a question





polished steal is allways correct and it can start now ageing and patinate



for the pistol grip I got an old( maybe pre WW 1)blank cap pressed from horn. nice matrial to work with am I in the end a little bit in doubt about the thickness of the cap. do you think its to thick now as it is??? should I reduce the thickness of the cap for maybe the half?




#





dont worry about the srews

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

Edited by CptCurl (12/03/12 09:39 PM)

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Igorrock
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: lancaster]
      #200955 - 29/01/12 06:55 AM

"should I reduce the thickness of the cap for maybe the half?"

I would take away about 2 mm. In my eyes the buttplate seems to be a little bit too small. Maybe you will modify the butt end ?

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Igorrock]
      #200963 - 29/01/12 08:27 AM

Some years ago, in the 90's, a fellow re-barreled or re-bored a 7.62X54R and chambered it for the .50 Alaskan. He wrote it up in Precision Shooting. It was a light rifle due to the thin barrel walls, and of course a 450gr. bullet at over 2,000fps kicked quite a lot in the 7 pound rifle. I've still got the article, somewhere if anyone's interested.

BTW - same rim diameter as a .45/70, but of course, uses a straighted .348 WW case.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Cashman
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: DarylS]
      #201068 - 30/01/12 04:15 AM

Quote:

... I've still got the article, somewhere if anyone's interested.



I would be very happy if i could read this article. So yes please, I´m interested indeed..

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Bokmal
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Cashman]
      #201073 - 30/01/12 05:27 AM

Quote:

I would be very happy if i could read this article. So yes please, I´m interested indeed..


Ditto!

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Grenadier
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Bokmal]
      #201084 - 30/01/12 09:35 AM

Very interesting project. I have been toying with a similar wildcat I call the .405 Grenadier. It is based on the 7.62x54R case and topped with 300gr .411 diameter bullet. It was designed for the Marlin 1895 rifle. I had a Marlin rebarreled for the cartridge and it works out fine but I think it will do even better in a bolt rifle. I recently acquired a Siamese mauser and will be having it modified to test my theory.

This is the 7.62 next to the .405 Grenadier



This is the 45-70 next to the .405 Grenadier


By the way, the easiest way I have found to make cases is by just firing 7.62x54R cartridges in the .405 Grenadier rifle - fire forming.

Now, as to why I mention this here. I believe the .405 Grenadier would be a perfect cartridge for a modified Mosin Nagant. The extra magazine length would allow the use of 400gr Woodleigh bullets. I have the reamer and.......

--------------------
~

Edited by CptCurl (12/03/12 09:41 PM)

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lancaster
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Igorrock]
      #201146 - 30/01/12 08:17 PM

Quote:

"should I reduce the thickness of the cap for maybe the half?"

I would take away about 2 mm. In my eyes the buttplate seems to be a little bit too small. Maybe you will modify the butt end ?



optical illusion




thinking its better now



--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

Edited by CptCurl (12/03/12 09:48 PM)

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lancaster
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Grenadier]
      #201147 - 30/01/12 08:19 PM

grenadier, do you get 405 win ballistik with your wildcat?

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
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Cashman
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: lancaster]
      #201160 - 30/01/12 10:46 PM

Quote:

grenadier, do you get 405 win ballistik with your wildcat?



I would guess that the .405 Grenadier is at least as potent, if not even more so, than the .405Winchester. The 7,62x54R cartridge withstands a lot more pressure than the .405 Win and I reckon that this compensates for the much shorter case. Correct me if I´m wrong.

Congratulations on a very good choice of name for your wildcat!!

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Grenadier
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Cashman]
      #201177 - 31/01/12 02:00 AM

The .405 Grenadier is still being explored. Only preliminary individually "hand-made" loads have been fired. I am waiting for the custom reloading dies before I get serious about working it up fully. In the Marlin rifle I expect to get a little over 90% of the velocity of the .405 Winchester cartridge. I am expecting 2000fps +/- with the 300gr Hornady. As I get it fleshed out I will post on a separate thread.

However, higher velocities would be obtainable in a bolt rifle like the Siamese, Mosin-Nagant, or Lee Enfield. In a strong bolt action I think you could get velocities that would be on the heels of the 450-400 NE. As pointed out above, the 7.62x54R is a 390 MPa (57,000 psi) cartridge. A bolt rifle will allow for a greater overall cartridge length and allow the use of 400gr bullets.

The .405 Grenadier was developed for the Marlin 1895. It has some real advantages over the .45-70 cartridge in that rifle but I will save addressing those for another time. Just let me say that once I started playing with the .405 Grenadier I realized it would only reach its true potential in a bolt rifle. As mentioned, I have acquired a Siamese Mauser. After I get some dies and work up loads for the Marlin, I will turn to the Siamese.

Meanwhile, if someone wants to try the cartridge out in a Mosin-Nagant, I am open to loaning the reamer out. The only concern I have is that it might go to a beginner who buggers it up so I have to order another. Bearing that in mind, I will freely lend it out so long as it comes back to me within a reasonable time and in good condition. If there is a member who is serious about trying it out in a Nagant then send me a PM (personal message). I would love to see a Mosin-Nagant sporter in this cartridge.

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Cashman
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Grenadier]
      #201184 - 31/01/12 03:14 AM

Haven´t decided yet but my next Mosin project might be a .375x52R. There are still plenty of old .375 barrels around that Valmet made for the 412S double rifle. They were intended for the USA market as 375 Winchester, but since Valmet got in financial trouble, the plans never came true. Jyri Jalonen, a well known gunsmith in Finland, has made some Valmet 412S´s in this caliber. At least he would have a reamer for it. It only seems natural to make a Mosin in this caliber as well as any based on the 7,62x54R.

The .405 Grenadier would otherwise be a good prospect, but bullets for the .405 (10,45mm) are hard to come by in Finland.

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kuduae
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Cashman]
      #201211 - 31/01/12 07:08 AM

Why reinvent the wheel? In GUN DIGEST 2000, page 106, Janne Pohojoispää published an article "Children of the 7.62x54R". Besides the more familiar (in Finland)5.7x53R, 6.3x53R, 7x53R, 8.2x53R and 9.3x53R he lists a 9x53R Urheiluase of Helsinki, a .375x52R by Jyri Jalonen to use .375 Winchester barrels for the Valmet, a .416x53R by Pekka Helenius and finally a 11.6x55R, a .458" cartridge on Sako case blanks. Both the .375 and the .416 versions feature an improved shape with a longer powder space and a shorter neck, the .375 resembling the 9.3x53R Swiss case somehow.

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Bokmal
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: kuduae]
      #201213 - 31/01/12 07:12 AM

Quote:

Why reinvent the wheel?


Why not? Why let somebody else have all the fun..?

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Cashman
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: kuduae]
      #201219 - 31/01/12 08:14 AM

Quote:

Why reinvent the wheel?



If the best invention man ever made is the wheel, then the second best must be the spare wheel..!

Who said anything about inventing something new? Isn´t the most common way to invent new things, to copy someone else´s work and renaming it and then claiming it your own! The .405 Grenadier might be the first newcomer in a long time, if someone was to make a Mosin in that caliber. As far as I know, nobody (over here in Finland) has made a Mosin in the .375x52R caliber either. And THAT is what we are talking about… Right? At least I am...

Yes I know the topic is ”The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history”… the world is quite a big place and history has a tendency to repeat itself… Well then why shouldn´t we “Mosinistas”?

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: kuduae]
      #201227 - 31/01/12 09:51 AM

Quote:

Why reinvent the wheel?



Nothing was reinvented. I was familiar with, and considered, those cartridges for use in the Marlin rifle. I went with the .405 (.411") instead of .416" because of the limited overall length restrictions of the Marlin. Bullets available in .416 are 400gr and they are too long for the Marlin rifle. But the 300gr .411" bullets made for the .405 Winchester were a perfect fit, to include the location of the bullet's cannelure ring. It was necessity that drove me to use .411" instead of .416".

I am already down the road with the Marlin. Now, here I am with a reamer, a pile of .411" bullets, and a Siamese Mauser. For me the next road to take is clear. Perhaps a Mosin is down the next road after that one.

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: kuduae]
      #201231 - 31/01/12 10:46 AM

Quote:

Why reinvent the wheel? In GUN DIGEST 2000, page 106, Janne Pohojoispää published an article "Children of the 7.62x54R". Besides the more familiar (in Finland)5.7x53R, 6.3x53R, 7x53R, 8.2x53R and 9.3x53R he lists a 9x53R Urheiluase of Helsinki, a .375x52R by Jyri Jalonen to use .375 Winchester barrels for the Valmet, a .416x53R by Pekka Helenius and finally a 11.6x55R, a .458" cartridge on Sako case blanks. Both the .375 and the .416 versions feature an improved shape with a longer powder space and a shorter neck, the .375 resembling the 9.3x53R Swiss case somehow.



AH-HA! no .475's nor .50's!!!!!

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Cashman
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Grenadier]
      #201261 - 31/01/12 05:43 PM

Quote:

I went with the .405 (.411") instead of .416" because of the limited overall length restrictions of the Marlin. Bullets available in .416 are 400gr and they are too long for the Marlin rifle. But the 300gr .411" bullets made for the .405 Winchester were a perfect fit, to include the location of the bullet's cannelure ring. It was necessity that drove me to use .411" instead of .416".



This is one of the reasons why I decided on the Mosin Nagant as my project. You can fit a much longer cartridge in the magazine box and not always have to seat the bullet down to the crimp groove. This way you leave more room for gunpowder. You can also play with the COL. and use slower burning powders.

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Cashman]
      #201304 - 01/02/12 04:07 AM

If you do Mosin .375x53R, its very usefull to find somewhere bullets which are made for .375 Win -ammo. Such bullet opens easier and are shorter than those for .375 H&H etc.

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Igorrock]
      #201306 - 01/02/12 04:36 AM

Yes you´re right, but .375 is a quite a common caliber even here, at least when comparing with the .405. I might also make a .338x53R. Living here in Sako-country, one can´t help stumbling over bullets in .338…

But right now I´m saving money for a totally different project, involving a Baikal over-under shotgun and a .308 Win barrel I have lying around..

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Cashman]
      #201338 - 01/02/12 07:27 PM

I think Baikal IZH-94 is quite cheap to buy....but maybe you want the bullet in over pipe.

http://www.sissos.fi/tuote/baikal-izh-94-%28baikal-ij-94%29-taiga-sis-stoppariura-12-308/3020000003/

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Cashman
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Igorrock]
      #201367 - 01/02/12 11:59 PM

Yes Sir I know that they are cheap, but you´re missing the point. It wouldn´t be “self made” and besides, I want one in 30-30Win. You are talking to the certified DIY guy now… The whole idea is to be able to use one gun as a double shotgun or a combo with just an “insert” barrel, with just a fraction of the prize of an IZH-94 with both double shotgun barrels and a combo barrel.

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Cashman]
      #201404 - 02/02/12 03:52 AM

The .375" Hornady 225gr.SP is an excellent bullet over quite a range of velocities. The nose is fairly soft, pointed for a flatter trajectory, yet the bullet shank is expressly thick, ie: 1/16". We'd have no problem using them here for moose and elk - or for longer range deer shooting.

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Cashman
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: DarylS]
      #201841 - 07/02/12 05:14 AM

If there are any left handed Mosin enthusiast, I happened to find an old re-barreled or re-bored Finnish Mosin. It was in the caliber 9,3x53R and in pretty good shape. I have plans for all the other parts but the stock, since I´m right handed myself.

A few pics:






It´s a Finnish army competition stock and not so rare except for it being left handed of course. It has a fancy Finnish name, which I don´t know how to translate, so please Bokmal or Igorrock educate me, if you find an English word for “vapaakiväärin tukki”.

What I´ll do with the rest of the rifle, I don´t know yet, but I ordered a reamer for a wildcat named 9,3mm Short Magnum. This is, in its simplicity, a .350 Remington Magnum (or 6,5mm Rem Mag) that has been fitted with a 9,3mm bullet. The idea is to make a new chamber in this already 9,3mm barrel, to fit this wildcat. Time will tell what becomes of it though…

Edited by CptCurl (12/03/12 10:01 PM)

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Igorrock
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Cashman]
      #201850 - 07/02/12 07:47 AM

Quote:

It has a fancy Finnish name, which I don´t know how to translate, so please Bokmal or Igorrock educate me, if you find an English word for “vapaakiväärin tukki”.


This rifle is a model for 300 metre rifle three positions which was in Olympics between 1900-1972. So the correct term is just a Free rifle.

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Igorrock]
      #201906 - 08/02/12 12:21 AM

I visit Mister Chamber Reamer because the claw mount was ready and here are first pics. it looks like my project makes some progress. the gunmaker told me it was an interesting experience to make the claw mount but generally no fun.


















now when the scope is ready the bolt will be extent and bend
here with my Husqvarna in 9,3x57 that will also go to a specialist for bending the bolt a little bit more for the scope.



I hope it will be a nice pair one day.

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Edited by CptCurl (12/03/12 09:50 PM)

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lancaster
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Igorrock]
      #201907 - 08/02/12 12:28 AM

to my own surprise the gunmaker hade a Mauser in 9x57 in the workshop. a simple but very, very slender rifle made from Franz Kettner in Suhl. not to confuse with the well known Eduard Kettner Köln und Suhl. But I have no doubt that Franz and Eduard were related to each other.
the hunter now own it got the rifle with other's from an inheritance and did not know what do because 8x57IS clearly dont fit. never heard of a 9x57 and thats all common.
a forgotten round









very rare to find a 9x57, a 9,3x57 and 9,3x53R same time in a shop here

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Edited by CptCurl (12/03/12 09:54 PM)

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: lancaster]
      #201928 - 08/02/12 04:34 AM



I really like the way that Mosin is coming along. It looks great. I'd never considered one as a sporting rifle before- I've now changed my mind. They are very reasonably priced at Tradeexcanada - SO - which is better, octagonal action/barrel or round? I even thinkg there's a barrel maker in Alberta who will bore and re-rifle. A 9.5 would be about right!

Tradeexcanada usually has a few 9x57's with lots of 9.3x57's and 9.3x62's in stock - all Huskys.

My next step is to pick up a 9x57 to match the 9.3x57 I bought from them 3 years ago. The M96 9.3x57 and M98 Oberdorf 9.3x62 have both taken moose. It would be nice to shoot a moose with a 'new-to-me' 9x57 Husky next fall with a 250gr. Hornady, about 2,300/2,350fps - quite easy for the M98 action.

A 9.5x57 would be nice to have, but will have to make it up myself.

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lancaster
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: DarylS]
      #201942 - 08/02/12 06:17 AM

yes, must say that's not bad. I have the feeling that something remarkable could be formed here.

the hex receiver have more charakter! if you wish to build a mosin sporter.
a .375x53R would be a good idea and our finish members can probably showing such cartridges. I believe its the biggest diameter you could rebore an original barrel. be warned about a claw mount, I have payed 300 euro for this and deliver 3 from 5 parts. the gunmaker make a socket for the hex receiver and a new rear feet from scratch for this rifle. and I dont believe you get such work for such price anywhere.
EAW makes a side mount also for mosin that I would consider being correct.


10-15 years ago I looked at anything not be a Mauser 98 down as being obscure. time have change this but I believe it start one day on a gunshow when I had a Mannlicher M 92 sporting rifle in my hands the first time.


I was wondering about your statement that Husqvarna was making 9x57 Mauser sporter and the website shows only german made M 98 in 9x57
http://www.shop.tradeexcanada.com/produits/95?page=11

the price is a steal for what you get

the Franz Kettner rifle was excellent build, to bad I dont make a pic side by side with the husqvarna. my feeling now some hours later is that it was only half as much of the swede.

the 9,5x56 Mannlicher Schönauer is easy to build into a M 98 action

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Edited by lancaster (08/02/12 06:22 AM)

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Bokmal
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: lancaster]
      #201945 - 08/02/12 06:53 AM

Quote:

I have the feeling that something remarkable could be formed here.


I have followed this project since the beginning, and having seen your recent pictures, I cannot help but feel the same!

And a little, little bit of jealousy, because my project is not moving forward...

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Cashman
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Bokmal]
      #201946 - 08/02/12 07:26 AM

Quote:

Quote:

I have the feeling that something remarkable could be formed here.


I have followed this project since the beginning, and having seen your recent pictures, I cannot help but feel the same!



I´d have to agree. Especially the stock, is in my mind, a very good find. The lines of it are something that my eyes really rest on.

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DarylS
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Cashman]
      #202027 - 09/02/12 03:58 AM

Lancaster - German 9x57 M98 - that's OK. It was lumped in with the Husky's and I assumed they were as well. I didn't know Husqvarna didn't make 9x57's - OK by me - either/or - they're just decent hunting rifles to me & I desire one.

The article I'm looking for, I was sure was in a Precision Shooting Magazine, was a straight re-bore on a Mosin Nagent to .50 Alaskan. The barrel was VERY thin adn the finished rifle very light. The fellows loads were lighter than I was using in my .50 Alaskan Rolling Block due to the recoil he was soaking up.

A new barrel would eliviate that. The older Hodgdon Annual Mannuals had .50 Alaskan data - like the 2006 Issue or so.

It's a dandy round. My bro has a 620gr. mould ordered for his Sharps in that chambering.

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lancaster
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: DarylS]
      #202066 - 09/02/12 09:08 PM

Daryl, I have study swedish auction house catalogs and they have a lot of 9x57 Mauser rifles from the Suhl-Zella Mehlis area made in the 1920ys. solid and simple working guns and I suspect most were bought before Husqvarna start the M 46 in 9,3x57 in 1927. the price was maybe the main reason for the success of the Husqvarna rifle. I have tried to find out this and the Mod 46 cost 133 swedish cronor when Geco M 98 sporter start at 190 and go up to 330 cronor. very possible the price was higher because of swedish duty. that was a convincing argument.
like before 1927 the swedish gentleman hunter with enough money bought german rifles. it may have cost twice as much but with the well known quality possible it have been something of a status symbol.

there is no doubt that the 9x57 will do more than expect from the size.

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Edited by lancaster (09/02/12 09:09 PM)

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: lancaster]
      #202068 - 09/02/12 09:12 PM

Lancaster,

Your Mosin is coming along very nicely.

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FrankS
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: NitroX]
      #202780 - 17/02/12 09:49 PM

Lancaster, been following this project since it started. It definitely has taken on a life of its own.
That plus all the other rifles that just seem to blend in with the build theme. I've a octagon receiver and spare parts squirreled away someplace. Funny thing, you can get moisins here in the U.S. for about $100 and for the most part (good barrel of course) they shoot way out of proportion as to their cost. My first introduction to the moisin is/was a model 27 Finnish rework. But the best part was the barrel. The barrel is marked VKT which I am told is "of TIKA" manufacture. Bright shiny lands and grooves. Shoots cast bullets very well. Thanks for keeping us posted on your project. Probably the most interesting one I've seen. Frank

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: FrankS]
      #202782 - 17/02/12 10:20 PM

Quote:

The barrel is marked VKT which I am told is "of TIKA" manufacture.


Hello FrankS! Slight correction; the Finnish M/27 rifle was made by the State Rifle Factory (Valtion KivääriTehdas = VKT). If the barrels haven't been changed during post war refits they should be marked VKT. Tikka also made barrels for most of our variations of the M/91 Mosin Nagant. A Tikka barrel should have a capital T within a triangle.

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: FrankS]
      #202817 - 18/02/12 06:16 AM

Quote:

Lancaster, been following this project since it started. It definitely has taken on a life of its own.
That plus all the other rifles that just seem to blend in with the build theme. I've a octagon receiver and spare parts squirreled away someplace. Funny thing, you can get moisins here in the U.S. for about $100 and for the most part (good barrel of course) they shoot way out of proportion as to their cost. My first introduction to the moisin is/was a model 27 Finnish rework. But the best part was the barrel. The barrel is marked VKT which I am told is "of TIKA" manufacture. Bright shiny lands and grooves. Shoots cast bullets very well. Thanks for keeping us posted on your project. Probably the most interesting one I've seen. Frank



good luck frank

when I was starting this many people I told it( and I dont told it many at all)were shaking their heads mildly. the best argument they had was that I would never be able to get my money back if I sold it sometimes.
well , I never had the intention to sold the rifle. thats how people can complete misunderstand you.

if I can give you good advise:

allways look how it was made in the old times with classic rifle's - there is a reason they became classic's

slime and trim all parts so much as possible

use classic methods like rust bluing and oil stocks

set classic iron sights on the barrel, without it will never being complete

the scope mount is a very critical point, avoid modern rail mounts and similar stuff
there is no doubt that a claw mount is the most esthetic solution but this is maybe not possible for you. I would recommand a german sidemount as the second best.

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Igorrock
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: lancaster]
      #202828 - 18/02/12 08:48 AM

"I would recommand a german sidemount as the second best.

This Griffin & Howe -mount could be quite good alternative too. My good friend has it in his Mannlicher Schönauer.



Edited by CptCurl (12/03/12 10:09 PM)

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FrankS
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Igorrock]
      #204692 - 07/03/12 09:16 PM

Bokmal, could very well be a tika barrel. However will try and sort though them and double check the barrel marking. One thing is for certain, will never sell this rifle. shoots cast bullets like no one's business. Thanks Frank

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FrankS
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: FrankS]
      #204693 - 07/03/12 09:28 PM

lancaster, I've seen a few variations on the bolt handles. A butterknife bolt handle would fit right in with your classical rifle theme. Would have to cheat regarding the iron sights. Can't see the irons as well as I used to. So some form of scope mount will have to do. I have a semi turned douglas 375 barrel blank that I picked up some years back. If I remember right it has a 1x14 twist. so should be good for the 375x54. The bullets manufactured here in the states for the 375 winchester run @200 grains and the other runs at 220 grains. Speer makes a 235 grain spitzer soft point (I have 3 100 bullet boxes.That would be my bullet of choice. The action is a hex receiver moisin and have a Finnis trigger and sear spring for that action. Should be very workable. I'm thinking of keeping the barrel a little heavier than a normal sporting rifle contour. Still will double check the twist before it goes into the lathe for some weight reduction. Thanks for the advice. Frank

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lancaster
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: FrankS]
      #204742 - 08/03/12 06:58 PM

a "Mannlicher spoon handle" was on the list for some time but I reject this idea for being to germanic

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Bokmal
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: lancaster]
      #204743 - 08/03/12 07:23 PM

"Germanic" would imply high quality gear and workmanship in the eyes of Finnish riflemen, both then and now...

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Bokmal]
      #204838 - 10/03/12 03:41 AM

home and dry

the gunmaker is ready now, making the finish will be my own work in the next time. the mosin is sleeping the first night in my gun safe today.

















--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
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bringing civilisation to the barbarians

Edited by CptCurl (12/03/12 10:10 PM)

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Bokmal
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: lancaster]
      #204840 - 10/03/12 04:00 AM

Congratulations, Lancaster! That is one well proportioned rifle!

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Bokmal]
      #204897 - 11/03/12 05:53 AM

Very nice !

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Igorrock]
      #204901 - 11/03/12 07:00 AM

It looks great -- I also really like the scope mount details.

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lancaster
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: tinker]
      #205284 - 16/03/12 06:39 PM

just for your entertainment: the stock will get oil 5 -6 times the next days and then everything is ready for rust blueing.
here with my husqvarna in 9,3x57 its becoming the pair I hope.























the next pics I post will shown the rifle finished. thank you for your patience!

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bringing civilisation to the barbarians

Edited by CptCurl (16/03/12 11:23 PM)

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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: lancaster]
      #205290 - 16/03/12 11:31 PM

Very nice work. I am anxious to see it finished.

Curl

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Bokmal
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: CptCurl]
      #205297 - 17/03/12 02:04 AM

A range report would be nice, too! :-)

BTW, how do you like the Mauser-style safety in actual use?

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lancaster
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Bokmal]
      #205432 - 18/03/12 09:59 PM

how I like the mauser safety? I love it, works fine also with the scope. if there is a safety issue because it lock in the "wrong" direction? never, when you stay with the common saftey rules and point the barrel not in a direction where it not to have be. five rifles here lock in the opposite direction so you have to be attentive, of course.

dont know when I find the time to visit a range. I have load 50 rounds with Vithavuori( what else) N 110 and my homemade 230 grains softpoint just for adjust the sights, the gunmaker had made a 3 shot group with skao factory ammo at 50 meter and iron sights to see where it goes and it shot 4 cm high and 8 cm left iirc. he was not keen of the trigger characteristic because it dont have the common double pull trigger.

I have time enough to become familiar with the trigger

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Igorrock
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: lancaster]
      #205439 - 19/03/12 01:26 AM

Quote:

it dont have the common double pull trigger.


Do this mean that you have converted the original two-stage trigger some way ?

Edited by Igorrock (19/03/12 04:02 AM)

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lancaster
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Igorrock]
      #205448 - 19/03/12 02:42 AM

no, did nothing on the trigger! when you pull the trigger sometimes it breaks and I was believing this was normal

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Igorrock
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: lancaster]
      #205458 - 19/03/12 04:05 AM

Ok, some people here in Finland just used to convert the Mosin trigger so that there is no pre-pull before breaking.

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Cashman
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Igorrock]
      #205467 - 19/03/12 07:31 AM

There are many ways of fixing the pre-pull, but no safe way to totally get rid of it in a Mosin. The 9,3x53R I bought for my next project has one of those dangerous modifications that could easily get someone killed. I myself, don´t like it, when they make the spring thinner to lighten the pull... And that, I might add, is very common in Finland…

I made a DIY adjustable trigger mod that I use in my hunting rifle. It doesn´t require any modifications to the spring or any other part of the trigger mechanism. I made one for my friends range rifle also. His has an adjustable aft-pull also. This mod doesn´t work in a hunting rifle, cause it doesn´t allow you to take the bolt out without removing the stock.
To make the pull lighter I use shims between the spring and the body.



Pre-adjustment screw inside the triggerhole...



Side view of the fine adjustment screw...



Pic from behind (this is where the aft-pull screw would be if there was one)

I don´t know how this works with the two-stage trigger, but it most definitely works with the most common one-stage trigger which originally has a ridiculously long pre-pull and no feel at all…

Edited by CptCurl (19/03/12 11:41 AM)

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Igorrock
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Cashman]
      #205489 - 19/03/12 12:40 PM

Cashman: the two-stage trigger is like in Mauser 98, first there is pre-pull with small tension and after that trigger breaks. At it´s best the last pull is very short and sharp, normaly quite indefinite. The Mosin trigger allmost allways has this worse situation and that´s why I use aftermarket triggers. They are safe, easy to adjust and the bolt is easy to take away when needed.

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9.3x57
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Igorrock]
      #205491 - 19/03/12 01:12 PM

The Finn M28-30 and M39 rifles have a simple modification to the trigger that adds two pins crosswise thru the top of the sear hole in the trigger; it allows two bearing surfaces, one as takeup the next as the stop before break.

I had a few and added them to some rifles, they are the best and simplist way to improve a M/N trigger IMO. Adding a slight angle to the sear will make a perfect trigger release.

I also learned how to make a positive double pull on a standard 91 and 91/30. Briefly, it is done by filing and polishing two angled surfaces on the sear nose. You must make the surface highly smooth and polished and also the angle cannot be so great as to prevent trigger reset on a half-pulled trigger.

It can be done, and I modified a number using this method. As such, the trigger has a first stage, then reaches a stop, then breaks. It feels different than a 98 Mauser, but can be done so as to give an even smoother trigger and release. It takes a lot of time and trial and error.

Great thread.

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FrankS
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: 9.3x57]
      #205494 - 19/03/12 01:53 PM

Lancaster, the stock looks great as well as the modified bolt handle. And with the period style scope and mounts looks even better. Cannot wait until you post pics after the rust bluing has been done. Guess you feel like an expectant father now that you are in the home stretch and finally see your dream rifle finished. This has been a great project as you documented each step and had pics at just about each step of the build. Congratulations, Frank

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lancaster
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: FrankS]
      #205504 - 19/03/12 05:26 PM

yes, having an idea that wants to become real and being pregnant is very similar if not the same.
I dont want to prejudge the trigger as it is now. it dont feels bad to pull it if you know it and I would not say its unsafe in any way. a hunting rifle have other needs than a target rifle for sure.

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Cashman
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: lancaster]
      #205517 - 19/03/12 07:47 PM

Igorrock yes a Timney or another aftermarket trigger is good. There´s no denying that. I just don’t like the look of a side safety, but that´s just my opinion. I like the mushroom or the ring, the ring being more practical.

In my hunting rifle (8,2x53R) I use this mod without the aft-pull screw. In this case I can remove the lock at any time. Actually I adjust the aft-pull with a screw trough the trigger guard…

I like my trigger heavy to pull, with a very short pre-pull. The idea with this mod is that it is adjustable like any aftermarket trigger.

This was just an idea. Feel free to use or not. I haven’t gotten a world-wide patent for it…

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lancaster
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Cashman]
      #205632 - 21/03/12 05:30 AM

cashman, would be nice if you could show some 8,2x53R cartridges: factory, handloads , ammo box

together with 7,62x53R cartridges if possible

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Cashman
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: lancaster]
      #205682 - 21/03/12 08:54 PM

Sure I can. I have some pics, on my computer at home. I´ll try to find time to post some later. I don´t have any factory loads, since the only thing one can find nowadays is Sako Hammerhead loads and I don´t like them much. I have a bunch of original Sako and Lapua boxes somewhere and a heapload of handloads.

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lancaster
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Cashman]
      #206716 - 07/04/12 06:38 PM

bokmal send me some pics made with a mobil phone. a new 9,3x53R Mosin sporting rifle project has allready started now.




























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Edited by CptCurl (24/05/12 08:34 PM)

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Igorrock
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: lancaster]
      #206792 - 09/04/12 01:11 AM

Not so beautifull but in tecnical mean quite interesting DIY ghost ring sight in Mosin:

http://www.sporterizing.com/index.php?showtopic=8988



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Edited by CptCurl (24/05/12 08:35 PM)

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lancaster
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Igorrock]
      #207604 - 24/04/12 05:20 AM

no news but an interesting 8x2x53R sporter












http://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=3835940
I like the pistol grip, very good style
think the rifle will go cheap buts a good basic for a sporter project

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
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bringing civilisation to the barbarians

Edited by CptCurl (24/05/12 08:35 PM)

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lancaster
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: lancaster]
      #207859 - 30/04/12 03:40 AM

accidentally I found now the pics of a 9,3x53R double rifle again when looking for other stuff in the Deutsches Waffenjournal 9/97. its a russian Baikal double rifle M 10-09 that was made as an official present for Erich Honecker than the east german head of state in Izhevsk/Russia. the rifle was auctioned in 1997 with his other rifles. a friend have bought a russian hunting rifle in 5,6x39/ 220 russian from this lot. possible I find the owner of this double rifle also. would be interesting to see it. I am sure the double is regulated for the russian cartridge and will have problems with Sako ammunition.
blitz action with ejector's, russian scope on a space age claw mount














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Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
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bringing civilisation to the barbarians

Edited by CptCurl (24/05/12 08:36 PM)

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Igorrock
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: lancaster]
      #207956 - 02/05/12 08:53 PM

I have seen some fotos of TULA 9x53R double rifles in finnish gunforums so I suppose it should be a couple of them here in Finland

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Bokmal
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Igorrock]
      #207959 - 02/05/12 09:26 PM

The scope on Honeckers 9x53 double rifle looks very much like the pre-war russian PE sniper scope! That, in turn, was a russian licence made Zeiss....

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Bokmal]
      #207961 - 03/05/12 01:58 AM

The Mosin Nagent rifles in 7.62X54R are running from $170.00 for standard rifles and carbines, both round and octagonal breeches, to to $225 for so-called Sniper Rifles at tradeex. How do they shoot? - Anyone?

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kuduae
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Bokmal]
      #207976 - 03/05/12 07:34 AM

Quote:

That, in turn, was a russian licence made Zeiss....


Sorry, a quite common misconception. The PE scope was designed by another German company, Busch, Berlin, a medium big and famous optical company up to WW2. When the Soviets conquered Berlin in 1945, they immediatiely sacked in the complete Busch factory, machines, people, files, drawings and the rest. Everything and everyone was transported east, never to be heard about again.

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Bokmal
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: kuduae]
      #207977 - 03/05/12 07:59 AM

Thanks kuduae, I stand corrected!

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Igorrock
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: kuduae]
      #207978 - 03/05/12 08:03 AM

http://www.jaegerplatoon.net/RIFLES7.htm

Quote:

Important markstone of Soviet sniper rifle development was making 170 sniper rifles from M/91 dragoon rifles in year 1926. These rifles known as Moscow Dynamo rifles were equipped with Zeiss Dialytan 4X rifle scope and scope mount manufactured GECO (Gustav Geschow & Co). Testing and development took its time, so the Soviets they didn't introduce their first domestically manufactured sniper rifle until 1931.


Quote:

When Winter War started in end of November 1939 the Soviets had already over 54,000 sniper rifles equipped with PE (PT) and PEM (VP) scopes



I´m quite sure Bokmal means those scopes...

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kuduae
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Igorrock]
      #207991 - 03/05/12 04:14 PM

Here something is wrong with the source: Zeiss is one company, their 1920s 4x scopes had the trademark "Zielvier". "Dialytan" was the trademark used by another, Hensoldt, Wetzlar, for their 4x scopes. So there were no "Zeiss Dialytan" scopes in pre-WW2 times.

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Igorrock
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: kuduae]
      #208009 - 03/05/12 09:53 PM

Quote:

Here something is wrong with the source


It´s very normal and easy to mess with those model names. But the truth is that when Winterwar in november 1939 begins, have the russian snipers very high quality scopes on their rifles.

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kuduae
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Igorrock]
      #208025 - 04/05/12 04:21 AM

Igorrock, possibly the high-quality German scopes the Russian used in the Winterwar were neither Zeiss Zielviers nor Hensoldt Dialytans, but scopes made by the Emil Busch AG Optische Werke, Rathenow (sorry, not Berlin, my mistake). The confusion is explainable: Busch cooperated closely with Zeiss. Since the 1930s they got their lenses made by Zeiss and were bought up by Zeiss in 1943. During WW2 Busch produced mainly artillery, fighter and bomber sights as well as rangefinders. WW2 sniper scope production was left to others, mainly Hensoldt, AJACK, Zeiss and many lesser optics makers.

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Igorrock
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: kuduae]
      #208027 - 04/05/12 05:30 AM

Quote:

Igorrock, possibly the high-quality German scopes the Russian used in the Winterwar were neither Zeiss Zielviers nor Hensoldt Dialytans, but scopes made by the Emil Busch AG Optische Werke, Rathenow


Those scopes were more or less copies of german ones but domestic russian made. Both russian scope types have lateral reticle adjustment which was quite extraordinary in those days

PE-scope


PEM -scope


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Edited by CptCurl (24/05/12 08:37 PM)

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FrankS
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Igorrock]
      #208652 - 20/05/12 03:07 PM

I wouldn't quite go so far as to say the moisin nagant rifle has become the 98 mauser of 2012 but since I hit a few forums every day I am starting to see a lot more gunsmithing on these rifles. That ranges from just lopping off part of the barrel to some downright beautiful moisin custom rifles. And Lancasters's is one of them. However there is a certain M27 that was reworked by the Finnish that will never see a jacketed bullet as long as I am above ground. Shoots cast bullets like a laser. Low recoil and just fun to shoot. Only thing as we get older the eyeballs don't take to kindly to iron sights. Frank

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Deutsche_Vortrekker
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: FrankS]
      #209085 - 26/05/12 09:23 PM

Beautiful project and now I am thinking about making one for my self.I heard there was a custom Mosin Nagant aftermarket trigger maker in Germany.I tried to contact this fellow but he did not sell to the USA.I wonder if Finnish made Arctic Birch sporter stocks are still made as this would be a nice touch and is where I would want to go if I started a project such as this.


Edited by CptCurl (12/06/12 09:00 PM)

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texan72
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Deutsche_Vortrekker]
      #210328 - 07/06/12 09:55 AM

Big fan of old nagants, very nice rifles and stories posted here. I figured I would share
mine it was the first rifle I built from scratch. It was a New England westinhouse, don't have it anymore and this was the only picture I ever got of it but it was used at least. Regards ,RMJ


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For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Edited by CptCurl (12/06/12 09:01 PM)

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lancaster
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: texan72]
      #210345 - 07/06/12 03:33 PM

small pic but the rifle looks good
not to late to build a another one

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Igorrock
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: lancaster]
      #210347 - 07/06/12 04:03 PM

Quote:

but the rifle looks good not to late to build a another one

I agree !



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Edited by CptCurl (12/06/12 09:01 PM)

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Bokmal
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: lancaster]
      #210349 - 07/06/12 04:53 PM

Quote:

Beautiful project and now I am thinking about making one for my self.I heard there was a custom Mosin Nagant aftermarket trigger maker in Germany.I tried to contact this fellow but he did not sell to the USA.I wonder if Finnish made Arctic Birch sporter stocks are still made as this would be a nice touch and is where I would want to go if I started a project such as this.


No-one in Finland makes Mosin-Nagant stocks on a regular basis anymore. Two friends solved this by buying furniture grade arctic birch (i.e. dried and with a nice figuring) and sent an old stock to be copied.

Do you have any more info on the rifle in your pics?

A 7x53R would make a nice companion for that rifle on the hood of your Land Rover

Quote:

not to late to build a another one


Just as long as you don't use an old collectible Mosin-Nagant as base for your project, I'm all for you building another. You obviously got the talent. How did you get the stock?

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texan72
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Bokmal]
      #210381 - 08/06/12 02:40 AM

Quote:

Just as long as you don't use an old collectible Mosin-Nagant as base for your project, I'm all for you building another. You obviously got the talent. How did you get the stock?


I started with a bandsaw blank, but Richards micro fit stocks from Cailforna carry a few styles of Mosin Stocks if your hunting one.
I do have one planned just haven't found the right one to build yet. That and where can I get one of those Ringed bolts I need one of those ..... Regards, RMJ

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John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Edited by 505texan (08/06/12 02:44 AM)

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lancaster
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: texan72]
      #210386 - 08/06/12 03:50 AM

btw, I like the remington model 8 also very much! http://thegreatmodel8.remingtonsociety.com/
waiting now for a winchester M 1910 that comes from sweden but a Model 8 in 35 Rem is also on my list, maybe next year.

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texan72
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: lancaster]
      #210393 - 08/06/12 04:48 AM

Quote:

btw, I like the remington model 8 also very much!


the Model 8/81's Remington and the FN1900 rifles are my favorite rifles
but like the classic pre-war sporters and doubles also. Make sure and check out
the website you listed I started that back in 2009 because of the lack
of info on them its grown alot since then, lots of great stuff for the
Model 8/81 guy for sure..
Regards, RMJ

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http://thegreatmodel8.remingtonsociety.com[/

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lancaster
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: texan72]
      #210446 - 08/06/12 03:46 PM

do you realy see the FN 1900 in Texas? its a rare rifle also in europe were most of them were sold I suspect. this early semi autos are true classic's!
way of topic but this is more or less my own thread: do you have vintage hunting pics showing the Remington 8 or the Winchester self loading rifles?

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texan72
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: lancaster]
      #210462 - 09/06/12 02:20 AM

Quote:

do you realy see the FN 1900 in Texas

Not many but do know ppl with them, and have shot them. I can get one at the moment for around $2800 us just haven't dropped the hammer on it. And yes heres some old pics of 8's http://thegreatmodel8.remingtonsociety.com/?page_id=66&album=4&gallery=6

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: texan72]
      #210502 - 09/06/12 12:11 PM

thank you for the link
what happen here? is the bear strapped to the tree for making a pic?


--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
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bringing civilisation to the barbarians

Edited by CptCurl (08/10/12 01:14 AM)

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DarylS
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: lancaster]
      #210532 - 10/06/12 12:27 AM

Grizzly cub tied to the stump for the picture.

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FinnCollector
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: DarylS]
      #210860 - 14/06/12 02:50 PM

This is a project I have been working on for quite a while...






It has a Redfield Palma Match rear sight and Redfield International globe front, Green Mountain 4140 chromoly 1-18 twist Sharps #1 Heavy Taper octagon barrel , Huber Concepts trigger, custom bolt handle and rework, and a Richard's Microfit Monte Carlo-style stock in presentation-grade Claro walnut with a wide forend and ebony tip/cap. Chambering is .50 Alaskan which is .348 Winchester blown out to .50 cal.

Edited by CptCurl (08/10/12 01:14 AM)

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Igorrock
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: FinnCollector]
      #210865 - 14/06/12 05:27 PM

Very nice rifle ! Do you mean you have made yours stock actual outfit with re-modelling a Monte Carlo ? Could you send some more pictures from yours rifles right side too.

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lancaster
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Igorrock]
      #210878 - 15/06/12 12:20 AM

hello finncollector

indeed, very nice rifle! reminds me on the old buffalo sharps and thats what the 50 alsaskan is - a .50-70 Government full Nitro.
please show the modifications of the magazin in detail.

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FinnCollector
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: lancaster]
      #210881 - 15/06/12 02:59 AM

It is considerably more powerful than the 50-70 as the case is .350" (9mm) longer. Also, there is no levergun currently available that can handle 50K PSI.

Right side...



An old photo, before the stock was fully shaped, inletted, and finished.



The modified magazine can be seen on the left. The sheetmetal was removed from the sides and straightened, then re-pinned and brazed. I will take some better photos soon.

The receiver was a 1915 Peter the Great arsenal (Tula) M91 with the Czarist eagles scrubbed and a bad barrel. No SA proof from Finnish capture, and missing the handguard and a barrel band. I had no qualms about using it for this project.

Edited by CptCurl (08/10/12 01:15 AM)

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Igorrock
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: FinnCollector]
      #210883 - 15/06/12 03:37 AM

Just curious but which kind of hunting you normaly use this rifle ?

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texan72
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Igorrock]
      #210884 - 15/06/12 03:48 AM

vey nice rifle FinnCollector and great chambering.

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For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

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FinnCollector
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Igorrock]
      #210886 - 15/06/12 05:12 AM

Quote:

Just curious but which kind of hunting you normaly use this rifle ?



Hirvi...Amerikanhirvi...paperi.

I have family from Joensuu.

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Igorrock
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: FinnCollector]
      #210890 - 15/06/12 05:54 AM

Quote:

Hirvi...Amerikanhirvi...paperi.


OK, moose hunter with Mosin

Here in finland very few hunter use aperture sights for hunting, ghostring is a little more popular.

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FinnCollector
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Igorrock]
      #210899 - 15/06/12 10:03 AM

The rifle is really too heavy to carry on a hunting trip as the barrel is 1.15" (29mm) at the muzzle and over 32" (812mm) long. It is good for long range 300M-600M hunting with 700gr (45g) hard cast lead bullets...though I also have cast some 975gr (63g) spitzer bullets.

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: FinnCollector]
      #210900 - 15/06/12 12:30 PM

My brother just picked up a mould for a 600gr.FN from Buffalo Arms in the States. It's for his custom Target sighted 11 pound 4 ounce M74 Sharps. It doens't take long to add up to $1,000 for sights. The Sharps is also chambered for the .50 Alaskan. That's quite a ctg. when loaded with modern powders in an action that can handle some pressure. We've been shooting .50 Alaskan's for about 15 years, but mostly with black powder and lead bullets. Both had McGowan barrels, 24" twist - mine was consistant 1-1/2MOA at 100yards and 3/4MOA at 200. Same 1 1/2" groups at both ranges.

I'd expect that 18" twist in a .50 will handle about any weight you'd care to shoot.

Interesting concept rifle.

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Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: DarylS]
      #210902 - 15/06/12 01:09 PM



The 975gr .50 cal bullet above is the one I have been casting...you can also see it next to a piece of brass in the top right of the rifle case photo. I am hoping for over 1400FPS in this rifle.

Edited by CptCurl (08/10/12 01:16 AM)

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Cashman]
      #211013 - 17/06/12 01:23 PM

Quote:

If there are any left handed Mosin enthusiast, I happened to find an old re-barreled or re-bored Finnish Mosin. It was in the caliber 9,3x53R and in pretty good shape. I have plans for all the other parts but the stock, since I´m right handed myself.

A few pics:






It´s a Finnish army competition stock and not so rare except for it being left handed of course. It has a fancy Finnish name, which I don´t know how to translate, so please Bokmal or Igorrock educate me, if you find an English word for “vapaakiväärin tukki”.

What I´ll do with the rest of the rifle, I don´t know yet, but I ordered a reamer for a wildcat named 9,3mm Short Magnum. This is, in its simplicity, a .350 Remington Magnum (or 6,5mm Rem Mag) that has been fitted with a 9,3mm bullet. The idea is to make a new chamber in this already 9,3mm barrel, to fit this wildcat. Time will tell what becomes of it though…



Cashman, if you find another M28/76 or similar "free rifle" stock for sale in a right hand configuration, I would be interested in purchasing it.

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Igorrock
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: FinnCollector]
      #211021 - 17/06/12 05:44 PM

For a reason or another, there is now quite many Mosin army surplus sportting stocks for sale here in finland. Some of them are even walnut. In this picture is stock for model TAK 85. Notice that the whole action is floating (no contact to stock) and so it need a special bushing (picture aattched) round the barrel which attach the whole action to stock.
This kind of rifle is very accurate when properly built.





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Edited by CptCurl (08/10/12 01:17 AM)

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FinnCollector
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Igorrock]
      #211023 - 17/06/12 06:05 PM

Quote:

For a reason or another, there is now quite many Mosin army surplus sportting stocks for sale here in finland. Some of them are even walnut. In this picture is stock for model TAK 85. Notice that the whole action is floating (no contact to stock) and so it need a special bushing (picture aattched) round the barrel which attach the whole action to stock.
This kind of rifle is very accurate when properly built.







Igorrock, how much is the TKIV 85 stock?

Edited by CptCurl (08/10/12 01:18 AM)

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FrankS
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: FinnCollector]
      #211027 - 17/06/12 06:35 PM

Igorrock, are the blonde stocks in right hand similar to the left handed one available in Finland??
And if so how much would one cost. I've a hex receiver action and a set of trigger parts trigger and sear/mainspring along with a UK50 heavy 7.62x54 machine gun barrel just sitting around doing nothing. Would make a nice but heavy rifle fitted with decent scope mounts. Frank

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Igorrock
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: FrankS]
      #211036 - 17/06/12 11:35 PM

This blonde (made from birch) stock has normaly attachments for Mosin action, not floating. This kind of stock is accetable to find but haven´t seen them for a while. Both models, right and left hand are just mirror images of each others.

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FrankS
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Igorrock]
      #211079 - 18/06/12 05:25 PM

Yes the blonde in right hand is the one I am looking Planning on glass bedding the entire action and about the first 1" of the barrel. And with the normal attaching points as you said. I'd even take one of the walnut ones should they become available with or without the bushing. But would prefer the birch one over any other. I have an old Finn reworked 1935 hex receivered model 27 that I shoot cast bullets in. That old rifle can shoot. If anything comes your way all right handed Keep me in mind. Got everything (almost) to get it together except the stock.Leave me a pm on this forum. Frank

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Deutsche_Vortrekker
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: FrankS]
      #211239 - 21/06/12 01:35 AM

Interesting rifles .I have a Finnish 28/76 and would consider this more a Target rifle than a hunting rifle as much too heavy to carry for 20 miles or so a day as I do many times while trekking on a hunt.The 28/76 stock is one of the finest designs for pure shooting however.

Edited by Deutsche_Vortrekker (21/06/12 01:36 AM)

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Igorrock
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Deutsche_Vortrekker]
      #211242 - 21/06/12 03:40 AM

The 28/76 or TAK 85 suits very well to european style tower hunting. You just sit up the tower and waits when the animals (mostly deers and bigs) come to near your place. The weight isn´t any problem.

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Deutsche_Vortrekker
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Igorrock]
      #211275 - 21/06/12 12:38 PM

Quote:

The 28/76 or TAK 85 suits very well to european style tower hunting. You just sit up the tower and waits when the animals (mostly deers and bigs) come to near your place. The weight isn´t any problem.

Yes the 28/76 would be fine for the "Hochsitz" just so you did not have to climb mountains with it.I will say this ;it may sound crazy but I really like the Mosin Nagant ;especially the finnish ones.Reliability accuracy and craftmanship all all marks of a Finnish made Mosin

Edited by Deutsche_Vortrekker (21/06/12 07:55 PM)

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DarylS
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: FinnCollector]
      #211300 - 22/06/12 01:39 AM

Quote:

Quote:

For a reason or another, there is now quite many Mosin army surplus sportting stocks for sale here in finland. Some of them are even walnut. In this picture is stock for model TAK 85. Notice that the whole action is floating (no contact to stock) and so it need a special bushing (picture aattched) round the barrel which attach the whole action to stock.
This kind of rifle is very accurate when properly built.







Igorrock, how much is the TKIV 85 stock?



This style of stock (barrel clamped, action free) was popular with some bench rest shooters in Canada back in the late 60's, early 70's. The design died out before the mid 70's - but- it does show merrit for a STRONG, stiff action. The military actions are not particularly stiff, having rails and open bottoms for magazines.

Just saying, but that is a nice design for a '3-position' or 'prone' rifle.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

Edited by CptCurl (08/10/12 01:19 AM)

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Igorrock
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: DarylS]
      #211303 - 22/06/12 01:55 AM

Quote:

The military actions are not particularly stiff, having rails and open bottoms for magazines.


The reason why SA (Finnish Army) used that patent is just the lack of Mosin action stiffnes, specially with heavy barrel. When barrel is clamped to stock with stiff bushing the action itself has no stress so it can just float and vibrate free. In tests this composition seems to make those rifles more accurate than normal bedding.

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Igorrock]
      #211306 - 22/06/12 03:54 AM

Yes - I'm well 'up' on the actions and re-actions with the thinsided military actions able to wobble all over - exactly what accuracy nuts don't want.

With standard bedding, and 1/2" to 1" (never on a taper) of the heavy barrel properly bedded, the accuracy was improved with standard actions over even a 'glue-in' clamped barrel.

Welding spacers between the rails to stiffen the actions was a common gunsmith trick here as well, to make miltary actions shoot as well as the various 'stiffer' Remingtons, etc. Then, the blocked/beded in barrel clamps worked as planned with military actions. My blocked, stiffened and glued in M98 agg'd .250" when that would put you in the top 3 along with the real BR rifles. So much for the early 70's. Now, 1/4" is nothing for even a gopher or small calibre deer rifle to beat.

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"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: DarylS]
      #211449 - 24/06/12 07:41 AM

I have a Finnish reworked moisin model 27 that I got in a trade. At the time I just figured it was just another moisin among millions that were made. Was I wrong!!The first thing I normally do with any rifle is take it apart and clean it. The tip off was the shims under the receiver ring. That and the beautiful VKT barrel. At the time there was no non corrosive ammo available except for Norma. I lucked out and did manage to find a few boxes of Hansen Cartridge non corrosive ammo. This rifle was to be my introduction into the world of cast bullets. C.E.Harris had an article in gun digest about shooting cast bullets in military surplus rifles. So slugged the bbl and ordered a lyman #314299 bullet mold. The rest was history. 2" groups easily at 100yds.
Lyman 3314299 sized to .3135 bore slugged at .3115
Imr 4759 20grs
win large rifle primers
hansen cases neck sized only
javelina lube
Bullet seated out to just kissing the lands won't feed from the magazine because the bullet/case is too long
So this particular rifle will never see a jacketed bullet as long as I have it and its been going on for like this for about 17 years. I'm thinking that more folks should try cast bullets in these rifles. their accuracy might just suprise you.
Frank

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Igorrock
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: FrankS]
      #211482 - 24/06/12 07:20 PM

Those rifles were made for very long torpedo shaped fmj bullets.



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Edited by CptCurl (08/10/12 01:20 AM)

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Igorrock
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Igorrock]
      #211611 - 27/06/12 04:39 AM

Here is some detail pictures of finnish sportting Mosin (not mine). The trigger is taken from .22 LR VALMET Leijona target rifle.



















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Edited by CptCurl (08/10/12 01:21 AM)

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Deutsche_Vortrekker
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Igorrock]
      #211765 - 30/06/12 09:22 AM



Beautiful Rifle! Here is my SAKO 28/76 7.62x53R Scharfschutzen rifle with original Finnish mount and Schmidt Bender scope






















Edited by CptCurl (08/10/12 01:23 AM)

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FrankS
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Deutsche_Vortrekker]
      #211827 - 01/07/12 05:47 PM

Well if any of you gentlemen come across one of the 28/76 moisin stocks Please do not hesitate to inform me. Actually I have two of the UK-59 machine gun barrels. I bought both from TGI international. The first one was the regular one just a bbl that had the locking lugs turned off and rechambered to 7.62x54R. The second UK-59 bbl was intended to be a replacement barrel for this model machine gun. Still has the carry handle on it as well as the rather cone type flash hider. Could remove the flash hider and install a very effective muzzle brake to cut down on recoil. I seriously believe that the Moisin Nagant rifle in its many varied forms may yet be a sleeper in the gun world. They may look ancient, obsolete but the Finnish reworked one I have Model 27 shoots great with cast bullets. So what could be better than a Finnish 28/76 stock, Finnish hex receivered action and a Czech heavy machine gun barrel. And I have a couple sets of Finnish triggers and sears put away for just a project like this. Thanks for listening. Frank

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Igorrock
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: FrankS]
      #211842 - 01/07/12 11:02 PM

Those 28/76 stocks are very difficult to find, many people wants to buy them if possible. But it seems that TAK 85 stock (IMHO the better altenative to do very accurate Mosin) could find quite easy.

Here is attached foto and blueprints (measures in millimeter) of TAK 85 barrel bushing:





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Edited by CptCurl (08/10/12 01:24 AM)

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Igorrock
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Igorrock]
      #215922 - 02/09/12 04:51 AM

I haven´t seen anything like this before but it seems that someone has really done it. Caliber is original 7,62x54R and magazine from russian dpm 63 machine gun.

Maybe some of this forums members could do the same but in a little sophisticated version....







And seems that it works too:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=i_z0Eom7H4k
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSZQ8APKY2Q&feature=youtu.be

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Edited by CptCurl (08/10/12 01:24 AM)

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lancaster
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Igorrock]
      #215943 - 02/09/12 04:33 PM

reminds me on this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zzl5w1fzZl8

build as a sporting rifle could be useful for culling

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: lancaster]
      #216295 - 08/09/12 01:24 AM

had the rifle on the range yesterday, its still in the white dont had the time till now.
make some rounds with N 110 15 grains and a homemade bullet just to see what going on with the scope. first rounds dont hit the paper and I work with trial and error. the old scope where you have the windage screw's in the scope mount are a little bit tricky but in the end it shoot.
the load shoot smooth, recoil but a little girl would have handle this. the action work smooth too!
next time with Sako softpoint's



--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
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bringing civilisation to the barbarians

Edited by CptCurl (08/10/12 01:24 AM)

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Igorrock
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: lancaster]
      #216320 - 08/09/12 03:14 PM

Nice group with old Mosin ! 40-50 mm...?

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tinker
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Igorrock]
      #216345 - 08/09/12 07:48 PM

Nice!

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Igorrock]
      #217280 - 27/09/12 09:16 PM

Quote:

Here is some detail pictures of finnish sportting Mosin (not mine). The trigger is taken from .22 LR VALMET Leijona target rifle.



















A beautiful Rifle Igorrock. There seems to be a wealth of triggers for the Mosin in Finland.I once heard of an excellent aftermarket trigger made in Germany;After much research on a German gun/website I found it...and much to my dismay found out he did not ship to USA.When you use a Finnish Mosin with a Tikka , SAKO or Valmet barrel you are assured of getting a top notch barrel for your project. While I have never "sporterized " a MN if I could find a nice Finnish Birch classic hunting style stock ,I probably would begin tomorrow!

Edited by CptCurl (08/10/12 01:26 AM)

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ots03
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Deutsche_Vortrekker]
      #218258 - 22/10/12 04:36 AM

I love finnish mosins (from m91 to tkiv85)I got a m91 and m39 sadly their are colector grade and "I cant"put a scope on them...Maybe I will find another for a sporting or fake sniper project (but they are not common in my country)
If you find another spare left hand stock let me know


Edited by ots03 (22/10/12 04:40 AM)

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lancaster
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: ots03]
      #218259 - 22/10/12 04:59 AM

this is the rare 6,3x53R Finnish, first time I had this round in my hands


very early post war production


the case have a similar volume like 6,5x55 or 6,5x57 but it was never loaded with heavy bullets into this class. its more some kind of super hornet for shooting wood grouse, winter fox or wild geese on long distance



seems to be they made it of WW 2 surplus brass






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Edited by CptCurl (10/11/12 10:49 PM)

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: lancaster]
      #218294 - 22/10/12 11:51 PM

Here is one of my mosin projects. Its just a spare parts build in 220 swiftAI.
I had a shot out remington 1891, a remington 722 barrel in. 222 & a 220 swiftAI reamer laying around and decided to combine them.


Here is a link to the build
http://curioandrelicfirearmsforum.yuku.c...ter#reply-93477

Edited by CptCurl (10/11/12 10:51 PM)

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: dirtyjim]
      #218487 - 27/10/12 01:25 PM

it seems you get the most out of the Mosin action with the 220 SwiftAI without changing anything.




does the bolt head accept the case or was it neccessary to make alterations?

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Edited by CptCurl (10/11/12 10:50 PM)

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dirtyjim
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: lancaster]
      #218501 - 27/10/12 11:04 PM

I soldered a bushing to the boltface, slightly deepened the ejector slot and shimmed the extractor back. 010" to fit the casehead.

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: dirtyjim]
      #224614 - 02/02/13 05:34 AM

three interesting old ammo boxes were coming to surface last week
this are very old 10round sako boxes, one with 16,6 gramm FMJ bullets and the other with 10 gramm(154 grains) FMJ bullets. to bad they dont come into our hands so we dont know how the cartridges look. the 16,6 gramm bullet may look like the 16,6 gramm softpoint and was probably intended for shooting moose. the best explanation bokmal had for the 10 gramm bullet is that it was made for shooting the big wood grouse. on the way to the 9 mm makarow pistol bullet that weighs 95 grains.


the other box is a 1970s Sako box with 15 gramm FMJ bullet. it came in bokmals hands and we will see pics of the cartridge.


reminds me on the Norma 9,3x57 ammo with 15 gramm FMJ for Target practise
http://www.norma.cc/en/Products/Hunting/93x57/Norma-FMJ-232-gr/
but his round is only load to 675 m/sec when the Sako round is labeled with 735 m/sec muzzle velocity

--------------------
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bringing civilisation to the barbarians

Edited by CptCurl (04/06/13 08:46 PM)

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Igorrock
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: lancaster]
      #224720 - 04/02/13 07:20 AM

Quite rare Mosin sporster:

http://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=4251820







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Edited by CptCurl (04/06/13 08:47 PM)

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Igorrock]
      #224727 - 04/02/13 08:36 AM

8x57IS no less.....nice

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Caprivi]
      #224731 - 04/02/13 10:35 AM

This thread is awesome Some fantastic rifles, tips, and pictures here. Thanks, gentlemen,

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Igorrock
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Caprivi]
      #224749 - 04/02/13 06:39 PM

I´m quite sure it is 8x57 IRS i.e. with rimmed case.

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Igorrock]
      #224758 - 05/02/13 12:13 AM

send the seller a pm and asking for pics showing the bolt head. I am 100% sure he dont realy know what for a chamber his rifle have. there were polish mosin rifles rechambered into 8x57IS between the wars so its possible and could be. maybe such a rifle ends civilian hand in austria after ww2. its a typical ferlach gunmaker build Stutzen and its not realy possible to say if it was made after 1918 or 1945. Austria rechamber Mosin rifles to 8x50R Mannlicher in the great war. could be its such an old warhorse.

so we have this possibilty's: 7,62x54R
8x50RMannlicher
8x57IS
just another sporting round

anyway, its a lovely stutzen and I dare to say it will sell for low money because the stupid dont appreciate it aynmore.
dont fit into my collection and gun safe room is scarce

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: lancaster]
      #226078 - 28/02/13 12:21 AM

I was fortunate to get the last russian made 6,5x54R mosin biathlon ammo box. Biathlon today is a girly sport but up to 1977 it was shoot with real rifles. the russians had an own cartridge for this. a 7,62x54R necked down to 6,5mm and an allmost forgotten round today. this is a 20 rounds box made by "188" LVE factory with brass case and a spitzer bullet in 1973. the finish and russian 9,3x53R are very similar and replaceable to each other but the russian 6,5x53R and the finnish 6,3x53R are different rounds. of course it seems possible to load the finnish cartridge into the russian chamber. I measure 6,73mm for the russian bullet and 6,53mm for the finnish bullet. the russian give a V 25 of 745m/sec for the 9,9 gramm bullet and the finnish cartridge is noted with a V25 of 850m/sec for the 2,3 gramm bullet so completly different.









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Edited by CptCurl (04/06/13 08:48 PM)

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: lancaster]
      #227468 - 24/03/13 05:42 PM

interesting hunting rifle http://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=4335084
captured by KuK troops in WW 1 and rebored by Steyr for the 8x50R Mannlicher. it was used for building a hunting rifle between the wars.









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Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
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bringing civilisation to the barbarians

Edited by CptCurl (04/06/13 08:48 PM)

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: lancaster]
      #227698 - 28/03/13 08:05 PM

classic finnish post war mosin hunting rifle in 762x53R with scope on side mount
http://www.ace-gun.com/product_details.php?p=1264







and here is a unknown to me russian repeating rifle in 9,3x53R for sale in germany
4 rounds magazin, 58 cm long barrel

dont ask me for the name or who made it, must be new







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Edited by CptCurl (04/06/13 08:49 PM)

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Even
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: lancaster]
      #227727 - 29/03/13 12:34 PM

I love the lines on that Finn. Very nice.

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Deutsche_Vortrekker
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Even]
      #227760 - 31/03/13 07:18 AM

I would love to see some more Arctic Birch sporter stocks as made for the Mosin as like the ones made in Finland post WW2. I favor this wood highly and it is rarely seen in the USA outside of Finnish Mosin Nagant military rifles.

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Deutsche_Vortrekker]
      #227768 - 31/03/13 06:10 PM

THE Arctic Birch stocked hunting Mosin-Nagant would of course be marshall Mannerheims personal Sako 1943 hunting rifle (third from left in this pic, courtesy of the Mannerheim Museum)


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Edited by CptCurl (04/06/13 08:50 PM)

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lancaster
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Bokmal]
      #227779 - 01/04/13 12:42 AM

I undertstand that artic birch is something for the american taste. it seems they liked higly figured wood very much and see also their love for maple gun stocks.
http://www.gunstockwood.com/
arctic birch gun stock will always sell in the united states!


still waiting for your report showing the mannerheim collection in detail

"Hunting was one of Mannerheim’s outdoor activities until the time of war. The following weapons are in his collection:

– A Berdan rifle, m/1870, 10,67 mm from the year 1882 and two from the year 1887,

– An infantry rifle, m/1896, 6,50 mm,

– A Steyr infantry rifle, m/95,8 mm,

– Two shotguns (William Powell & Son)

– A Mauser hunting rifle (Obendorf)

– A Mauser hunting rifle (Tiroler Waffenfabrik)

– A Mauser hunting rifle, .350 Magnum Rigby, half-stock (since 1936)

– A Mauser hunting rifle, Purdey & Sons

– A moose rifle (Sako 1943) and

– A Caucasian hunting rifle"




hunting red deer as a guest of Hermann Göring in east prussia 1935


--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

Edited by CptCurl (04/06/13 08:51 PM)

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Deutsche_Vortrekker
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Bokmal]
      #227783 - 01/04/13 02:32 AM

Quote:

THE Arctic Birch stocked hunting Mosin-Nagant would of course be marshall Mannerheims personal Sako 1943 hunting rifle (third from left in this pic, courtesy of the Mannerheim Museum)


When I come to Finland to visit you my friend ,I must see this rifle !

Edited by CptCurl (04/06/13 08:52 PM)

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DesertDrifter
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Deutsche_Vortrekker]
      #227971 - 04/04/13 03:29 AM

My interest in the Mosin-Nagant was slow in developing. As I came across articles and stories about the rifle my interest deepened. With that I bought my first Mosin-Nagant and been hooked ever since. I came across this thread nearly a year ago and visited it regularlly. I appreciated and drooled over the many fine sporterized rifles in this thread. The knowledge I learned from the postings of this forum actually prepared to me to realize this rifle was something special when It became available to me.

From what I can gather this sporterized Remington 1917 dates to around the 1920's. It has some interesting characteristics. You can appreciate the skill of the craftsman to make a nice rifle with only what he had available to work with. The barrel was shortened to 26 inches with a banded and hooded front sight installed.



Note in the picture below how a section of walnut was grafted into the original stock so a pistol grip could be formed.


A Pacific R1 aperture sight was installed on the cocking piece.


From an article in the 1998 Gun Digest 53rd annual addition titled "Russian Sporters" by Jim Foral I learned that the pistol grip cap and forend cap could have been made from discarded automobile battery housings.


This era is refered to as the "Golden Age" of military surplus sporterizing in America and very much in vogue. Commerical bolt action rifles were not quite available in numbers to the american sportsman as the demand require so many rifles were sporterized in sheds, garages and kitchens across the land.

This is my first post. I hope I have done my homework well enough to get it to post the way I hope.

'drif

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Edited by CptCurl (04/06/13 08:52 PM)

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Bokmal
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: DesertDrifter]
      #227972 - 04/04/13 03:38 AM

Nice writeup and a veery cool diopter! I'm jealous...

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Bokmal]
      #228063 - 05/04/13 02:46 AM

very nice and historic sporting rifle tell's us alot about the bad years in the 1920/1930s. on the first view I thought it was a bannerman sporter in 3006 but it seems to be in 7,62x54R
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=KI7BCToQhRc

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Igorrock
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: lancaster]
      #228069 - 05/04/13 03:20 AM

Very interesting film. The Bannerman is a new name to me.

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Igorrock]
      #228077 - 05/04/13 04:58 AM

I should have mentioned in my post that it still hosts the original 7.62x54r chambering. It shoots quite well the Pacific R1 sight. Shooting supported at 100 yards I produced 1 1/2 x 1 3/4 inch groups using late 70's Bulgarian surplus ammunition.

When this rifle was sporterized "plinking" with a rifle of this caliber was not done. So over the years it was probably used only to provide the winters venison. I suspect, by the evidence of the fine condition of the bore, that when american manufacturing had caught up with the demand for bolt action rifles this one was retired to the closet.

Thanks for your comments, they are well appreciated.

'drif

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: DesertDrifter]
      #228313 - 08/04/13 02:07 PM

last time it became a little bit more colourful here but this is always the 9,3x53R Finnish thread and we have a mission in the name of science.
my special thanks to Bokmal who found another ammunition variant and recognised the relvance for our search.

what we have here is a 15 gramm FMJ spitzer bullet load in the 9,3x53R with v/0 of 735 m/sec











naturaly my first thoughts were going to the currently available Norma load 9,3x57 Jaktmatch.




again a 15 gramm FMJ spitzer with a v/0 of 675m/sec
like the name suggest a cartridge loaded for target practise. that may have been also the reason for this load. bokmal point me also to the fact that it would be a good bullet for hunting the black woodgrouse and fur bearing animals like fox too.

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
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bringing civilisation to the barbarians

Edited by CptCurl (04/06/13 08:53 PM)

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Deutsche_Vortrekker
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: lancaster]
      #228492 - 10/04/13 08:14 PM

I read somewhere that the 9.3x53r became popular as a minimum bullet diameter became mandatory in Finland ? or maybe other Scandinavian countries for Moose (ELg in Norway)???

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Deutsche_Vortrekker]
      #228497 - 10/04/13 10:43 PM

SAKO began to load and make suitable bullets for 9,3x53R in 1942. The law for minimum bullet diameter for moose had prescribed before WWII and it was 8,2 mm. The reason for that law was to forbit 7,62(x53R) mm army and civil guard rifles for hunting purposes.

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Deutsche_Vortrekker
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Igorrock]
      #228591 - 12/04/13 12:22 PM

Quote:

SAKO began to load and make suitable bullets for 9,3x53R in 1942. The law for minimum bullet diameter for moose had prescribed before WWII and it was 8,2 mm. The reason for that law was to forbit 7,62(x53R) mm army and civil guard rifles for hunting purposes.

Ha Ha ....i am sure that slowed down those Finn hunters whose only rifles were M28/30 7.62x53R caliber !

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Deutsche_Vortrekker]
      #229190 - 22/04/13 04:53 PM



Ha Ha ....i am sure that slowed down those Finn hunters whose only rifles were M28/30 7.62x53R caliber !


These proud Finnish wolf hunters from 1934 prove your sceptisism well founded...

Both hunters on the left carry the Civilian Guard M/28 or M/28-30 rifles. Second from left even has the aluminium muzzle protector attached. Second from right has a C96 with rifle stock attached, now that's classy

(Pic courtesy of the Finnish National Library)





Edited by CptCurl (04/06/13 08:54 PM)

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Grenadier
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Bokmal]
      #229192 - 22/04/13 05:04 PM

Who is a good gunsmith in the USA with experience in opening the Mosin Nagant magazine for bigger cartridges?

I need to have the following rifle rebarreled in my .405 Grenadier caliber. It will be easy to find someone to do the barrel, bolt, and stock modification. But modifying a Mosin Nagant magazine is not the sort of thing that most gunsmiths will have done.





Edited by CptCurl (04/06/13 08:55 PM)

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Deutsche_Vortrekker
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Bokmal]
      #229204 - 22/04/13 11:17 PM

Quote:



Ha Ha ....i am sure that slowed down those Finn hunters whose only rifles were M28/30 7.62x53R caliber !


These proud Finnish wolf hunters from 1934 prove your sceptisism well founded...

Both hunters on the left carry the Civilian Guard M/28 or M/28-30 rifles. Second from left even has the aluminium muzzle protector attached. Second from right has a C96 with rifle stock attached, now that's clasy

(Pic courtesy of the Finnish National Library)





Great picture Bokmal ,Many thanks for posting. Interesting times back then !

Edited by CptCurl (04/06/13 08:55 PM)

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lancaster
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Bokmal]
      #231875 - 30/06/13 04:42 AM

the tale of a failure

while the rifle standing still in the white in my safe for a year I finally got now the time and leisure to start blueing. have old rust blueing stuff from Suhl here that give the typical very black colour you may see on post war Suhl made guns. after working successful with M 98 parts and allso the small Mosin parts like srews I learned that the magazine box and the magazine cover were made of a steal thats unsuitable for my stuff. I try everything for days but it did not realy rust and when not completly. after boiling it in hot water the rust became like dust and when you dont remove it with steel woll it became loose when you brush the thing with acid again for the next season.
have order hot blueing chemicals now, hope this helps




small parts like the magazine catch works perfect


only cleaned with steel woll again in a moment


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Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: lancaster]
      #232652 - 18/07/13 12:13 PM

so I am pondering on building another sporting Mosin and was wondering if any of our overseas friends have any sources for really nice classy side mounts for Nagants, any help would be great any many thanks in advance.

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: texan72]
      #232694 - 19/07/13 02:33 PM

Here is two fotos of my Mosin with side mount. You are free to copy it to yours rifle:





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lancaster
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Igorrock]
      #232771 - 21/07/13 06:43 PM

hello

EAW in germany make the sidemount also for the mosin action
http://www.eaw.de/assets/files/drZf_21_AM_seitl_M.pdf

looks similar to this classic here


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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: lancaster]
      #232961 - 26/07/13 10:51 PM

anyone still remember how this startet over 3 years ago now?

santa claus was coming to town




and now after a very long time in the probably longest thread ever on nitro express I am glad to announce that a new prince is born!

he have many parents : Bokmal who found all the rare parts in Finland for me and my gunmaker and good friend Siegmund Mittag/Luckenwalde who was cracy enough to understand my vision and many more helping here and there and give good hints.
I will thank anyone






















made as a companion for my Husqvarna in 9,3x57 believing I get the spirit of this old gunmakers

















ammo group pic, the only one missing is the new made russian 9,3x53R with copper plated steel case









special thank to bokmanl for the 9,3x53R Sako with 15 gramm spitzer bullet!

I have a special weakness for actions with long magazine's like Mannlicher










Edited by lancaster (26/07/13 10:53 PM)

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lancaster
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: lancaster]
      #232962 - 26/07/13 11:00 PM

I am coming to an end with collecting in the near future only 3 rifles missing

M 88 9x57
M 91 9,3x53R
M 92 375NE 2,5"
M 94 9,3x57
M 98 9,3x64
10,75x57
11,2x60






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Bokmal
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: lancaster]
      #232963 - 26/07/13 11:25 PM

Nice family portrait, including the swedish cousin...

It was great to get to see the results of this project IRL! But I kept getting distracted by all the other beauties you keep hidden in you safes...

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lancaster
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Bokmal]
      #232966 - 26/07/13 11:59 PM

it was a special pleasure for me that you were the first one having the finished rifle in your hands

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Igorrock
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: lancaster]
      #232969 - 27/07/13 01:02 AM

Very nice rifles indeed !

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Igorrock
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Igorrock]
      #233040 - 28/07/13 04:49 AM

These Mosins are for sale here in Finlad, price 85€/piece. All made by SAKO:

http://www.tori.fi/lappi/Sakon_kivaareita_7390264.htm?ca=14&w=3

7x53R


8,2x53R


9,3x53R


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Even
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Igorrock]
      #233050 - 28/07/13 11:11 AM

Your Mosin turned out beautifully, Lancaster. Well worth the wait Gorgeous lines!

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Cashman
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Bokmal]
      #233078 - 28/07/13 11:06 PM

Quote:

Nice family portrait, including the swedish cousin...




I agree up until the "Swedish cousin" part...
At most I would call it a second cousin...



To make it even harder for the local Mosin collectors, I have just finished my latest project. 9,3mmSM is the caliber of this most effective newcomer. It started out as a 9,3x53R that I bought for only 50 Euros. Now it delivers roughly the same effect as a .370 Sako Magnum. The cases are made of shortened .338 Winchester magnum cases or any belted magnum case excluding the .450 Marlin. The measurements are the same as the .350 Rem Mag, except for the projectile and a longer freebore in the chamber. The idea was to be able to use solid bullets with minimum work on the rifle. The discussion about banning lead projectiles in hunting is growing stronger every day even in Finland.
I actually only re-bored the chamber and that's about all..



The bipod is made out of a bipod from a Finnish light machinegun (aka. KK62).
Silencer is a JaKi aluminum silencer. The scope is an Zeiss Duralyt 3-12x50. The stock is from a Merte rifle. Merte stands for Mukkulan Erikois Teollisuus who rebuilt and sporterized many old Finnish army weapons post war. I always thought they would have been better off using Muerte instead, just in case they ever went international...
(The cans under the table are not beer cans but Angry Birds soda cans... my kids love it a bit too much...)



Left 9,3x53R, in the middle 9,3mmSM and to the right 9,3x62.

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lancaster
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Cashman]
      #233129 - 30/07/13 01:40 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Nice family portrait, including the swedish cousin...




I agree up until the "Swedish cousin" part...
At most I would call it a second cousin...




I think the "swedish cousin" is right because when this whole thing startet I oriented myself on the design of the Husqvarna M 46, M 46a and M 146 sporting rifles. have the feeling they were a very harmonious blend of german and british elements refined in a pure style. seeing this its allways hard for me to understand what happen with bolt action rifles after WW 2 because its so clear what good taste is.
and dont forget the 9,3x53R is the rimmed twin of the 9,3x57!


the 9,3mmSM looks like a very potential little beast! is this wildcat your own invention?

--------------------
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bringing civilisation to the barbarians

Edited by lancaster (30/07/13 01:45 AM)

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Cashman
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: lancaster]
      #233131 - 30/07/13 03:29 AM

Yes it is my own invention.
I have plans on converting a 8,2x53R with the same idea. Maybe I’ll even pick up one of those nice ones that Igorrock mentioned…

I started by planning a cartridge that would need minimum changes to the rifle itself.
Since the measurements of my original wildcat were so close to .350 Rem Mag, I made mine match to find reloading equipment easier. I actually use a .350 Rem Mag sizing die and seating die I only made a new neck calibrator to the sizing die. I could even use .350 Rem Mag brass, but there are none available in Finland.

I got to test it a few weeks ago on a 300m range and it worked better than I expected.
The recoil without the silencer is quite uncomfortable but with it bearable. A 250grain Barnes TSX leaves the barrel at 770m/s and this is a safe load.

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Igorrock
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Cashman]
      #233140 - 30/07/13 06:17 AM

Quote:

I started by planning a cartridge that would need minimum changes to the rifle itself.


How about the extractor ? Which kind of changes it needs ? Yours stock looks quite nice. I´m looking for a new wallnut stock to my mosin so PM me if you find any. Even half made interest me.

By the way, I have seen pictures of Mosin which shoots .338 Lapua Magnum (made in USA). The maker told that he had shot aprc. 100 shots without any problem.

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Cashman
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Igorrock]
      #233227 - 31/07/13 06:08 AM

Actually I didn't do anything to the extractor. The 0,85mm difference in rim diameter fall within Russian standards... You know what I mean. It works nicely with all brass except for Winchester, which has a slightly different size grove. If it starts becoming a problem, then I have plans for it already.

I'll talk to my friends about the stock. They are hard to find and most Mosinists don't want to part with them. This one I found by accident when I was trying to sell the left handed free rifle stock that came with the 50 euro Mosin.

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texan72
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: lancaster]
      #233282 - 01/08/13 03:36 AM

I really like that look for that side mount, I think I found my action to start with, a Westinghouse
1915 , now for the fun part I am converting it to 300 Winchester mag will keep y'all updated with the project. and also anyone have a source for the ringed safety for these thanks again

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http://thegreatmodel8.remingtonsociety.com[/

John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Edited by 505texan (01/08/13 03:43 AM)

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FinnCollector
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: texan72]
      #233283 - 01/08/13 04:02 AM

You want to convert a rifle, made for shooting rimmed cartridges, into one for shooting belted rimless magnums? Why?

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texan72
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: FinnCollector]
      #233284 - 01/08/13 04:12 AM

I know don't scold me too bad, I shot one a guy converted and had to have one no other reason. I would consider another chambering but after I do this one, , and it will take it abuse of the 300wm not a tough conversion at all just moving some metal around.

--------------------
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John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Edited by 505texan (01/08/13 04:14 AM)

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FinnCollector
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: texan72]
      #233285 - 01/08/13 05:54 AM

How about 348 Winchester necked to 30 cal?

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texan72
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: FinnCollector]
      #233290 - 01/08/13 07:12 AM

Quote:

How about 348 Winchester necked to 39 cal?


that could be interesting, be a thumper on Hogs for sure

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John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

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FinnCollector
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: texan72]
      #233296 - 01/08/13 07:55 AM

Sorry, should have been 30 cal. Would have equivalent power to 300 WM, if not more...especially @ 50K psi.

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FinnCollector
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: FinnCollector]
      #233297 - 01/08/13 07:57 AM

No extractor mod required and very little bolt face difference. COAL can be made similar to 7.62x54R/53R but with a big increase in powder capacity.

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lancaster
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: FinnCollector]
      #233310 - 01/08/13 01:36 PM

again a combination gun in 9,3x53R Switzerland and 16/65 but not the well known ESHA/Suhl but a Sauer&Sohn Suhl pre war made.
http://www.waffenboerse.ch/gebrauchtwaff...65-9-3x53r.html









Sauer&Sohn was the biggest and most versatile maker in Suhl so no wonder build also rifles for the swiss cartridge. for 600 CHF a great combination gun for the dedicated S&S collector.

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Igorrock
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: lancaster]
      #233317 - 01/08/13 06:01 PM

Question; how near those 9,3x53R Swiss and Finnish are with each others in case dimensions.

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lancaster
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Igorrock]
      #233368 - 02/08/13 04:05 AM

if you remember that the 9,3x53R Swiss is the rimmed 9,3x53 which is not more than a 7,5x55 necked up to 9,3mm the swiss and the finnish case are surprising close to each other. you have to reduce the rim thickness on Sako brass and blow the neck out with a fireform load.

iirc, the rim thickness is max 1,60 mm on the finnish case and 1,10mm max on the swiss case, the neck is 4mm forward on the swiss case

many owner of swiss rifles use Sako brass for handloading with the little benefit it have the right headstamp also.

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Igorrock
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: lancaster]
      #233371 - 02/08/13 04:16 AM

Quote:

if you remember that the 9,3x53R Swiss is the rimmed 9,3x53 which is not more than a 7,5x55 necked up to 9,3mm the swiss and the finnish case are surprising close to each other.

Thanks, that´s new to me. Swiss 7,5x55 interests me a lot because it´s bottom diameter is very near 9,3x64 Brenneke......

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Hardrada55
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Igorrock]
      #233385 - 02/08/13 01:30 PM

The Russians were making some nicely engineered sporters during the 30s and 40s.

















In 1931, Kochetov, DM based on the Mosin rifle was developed by NC hunting rifle, 8, 2 -gauge 8.2-mm. The carbine was manufactured at the Tula Arms Plant before 1941, both for the domestic market and for export to order the Mongolian People's Republic. Ammo for the rifle Kochetov consisted of a brass sleeve length 66 mm, which had a bottle-shaped, groove and partially protruding rim. Cartridge primer were filled with the central battlefield, a charge of black gunpowder and a lead bullet weighing 14.5 grams with an initial flight speed of 400 m / sec. During the war there were hunting rifles for the armed militias.
After the war ended in 1946 at the Izhevsk Machine-Building Plant was arranged production hunting rifle KO-8, 2 "Moose", and in 1962 - KO-8, a modernized round 2M 8,2 × 66m, which were fitted with a charge of powder and soft point pistol bullet weighing 9.6 grams (tompakovaya shell and core of suryamistogo lead SSA).
Issue rifle lasted until 1965, and rounds up to 1978. Bullet cartridges in the pre-war issue were fixed in a tight pocket trip and a modernized chuck segment crimp sleeves or three-point edge kerneniem.
Attempts were made to learn the serial production of the cartridge with a bullet shell in the 30s and in 70s (bullet weight 9.6 g), but the mass production of ammunition with bullet shell had not been implemented. Most of the ammunition produced with sleeves, without bottom marks, with the exception of post-war sample rounds 8,2 × 66m with a bottom stamp in the form of a five-pointed star.



Edited by Hardrada55 (02/08/13 01:32 PM)

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Igorrock
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Hardrada55]
      #233386 - 02/08/13 01:59 PM

Thanks for those fotos. The converted magazine looks very interesting.

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lancaster
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Igorrock]
      #233450 - 03/08/13 07:03 PM

hardrada, its a very interesting hunting rifle
its your?
knowing they exist but this are the first pics I see of this model. if there was only more room in the safes I would like to have it but this is an old problem.

would be happy also if I can get one of the 8,2x66 cartridges it seems this cartridge is out of production for decades now.






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Hardrada55
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: lancaster]
      #233453 - 03/08/13 10:45 PM

Sorry, but no, that rifle is not mine. Though I am very interested in finding out more information about hunting rifles and gunsmithing done in countries (especially Russia) besides "the usual suspects", the pictures I posted are from research on the web. I would love to find information and/or pictures concerning a Mosin sporter made by a V. Markovich right at the end of World War I chambered in a slightly shortened version of 7.62 Russian.

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lancaster
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Hardrada55]
      #233471 - 04/08/13 02:50 PM

Quote:

Though I am very interested in finding out more information about hunting rifles and gunsmithing done in countries besides "the usual suspects"



that's what makes the world turn around



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Deutsche_Vortrekker
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Igorrock]
      #235976 - 24/09/13 01:16 AM

Quote:

These Mosins are for sale here in Finlad, price 85€/piece. All made by SAKO:

http://www.tori.fi/lappi/Sakon_kivaareita_7390264.htm?ca=14&w=3

7x53R


8,2x53R


9,3x53R




Wow , thanks for these pictures . I hope all you Finns realize this is causing me sleepless nights knowing that rifles like this are found on a regular basis in Finland and nearly impossible to find in the USA

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Hardrada55
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Deutsche_Vortrekker]
      #235982 - 24/09/13 06:42 AM

Did any of V. E. Markovich's sporterized Mosin Nagants from circa 1917 in the weird shortened 7.62 Mosin Nagant make it to Finland?

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Igorrock
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Hardrada55]
      #235995 - 24/09/13 02:40 PM

Haven´t heard and seen any.

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Cashman
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Hardrada55]
      #236066 - 26/09/13 05:02 AM

Quote:

Did any of V. E. Markovich's sporterized Mosin Nagants from circa 1917 in the weird shortened 7.62 Mosin Nagant make it to Finland?



Short as in short round or short as in short rifle?

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Igorrock
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Cashman]
      #236070 - 26/09/13 06:27 AM

I´m sure he mean these:

Quote:

7.62x48R based on shortened 7.62x54R cartridge 139grain (9g) @ (725mps) 2378fps Circa 1916 - 1918 by V. E. Markovich. Used in converted Mosin Nagant actioned rifles.





Edited by Igorrock (26/09/13 06:34 AM)

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Isopeura
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: lancaster]
      #236124 - 27/09/13 05:28 AM

The history of 7x33 is quite interesting as this round is meant for game that can be considered as an anomaly in western hunting culture. It is a bird shooting cartridge, first and foremost. It also has a sinister story in Finnish crime history, unfortunately. The manufacturing history is also interesting as this round could be made with same machinery as was used during WW-II to make 9x19mm cartridges.

This cartridge has had its ups and downs but it had a popularity boost as Sako reintroduced the round a decade or so ago. Thousands of rifles chambered to this mild powered and meat saving round got a new lease on life due to this generous act from the company. Ok, the cartridges sold like no other, so it was good business also...

This cartridge is very good small game round up to 150 yards maximum. It's main purpose is to deliver meat to the pot and it does this job well.

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Oldbrit
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Isopeura]
      #236125 - 27/09/13 07:24 AM

Quote:

The history of 7x33 .... has a sinister story in Finnish crime history, unfortunately.



Could you explain that please?

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Igorrock
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Oldbrit]
      #236145 - 27/09/13 01:51 PM

Quote:

The history of 7x33....also has a sinister story in Finnish crime history, unfortunately.


In 1969 one quy shot 4 policemen with 7x33 SAKO rifle. Later one finish film director made a film about those happenings. It´s name is "Kahdeksan surmanluotia" (Eight deadly bullets).

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Deutsche_Vortrekker
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Igorrock]
      #236182 - 28/09/13 09:20 AM


Here is My early Sako 222 Riihimaki .I never noticed it before but the stock and iron sights are quite similar to the early Sako Mosins in Igorrocks photo

Edited by Deutsche_Vortrekker (28/09/13 09:21 AM)

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lancaster
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Igorrock]
      #236187 - 28/09/13 03:07 PM

Quote:

I´m sure he mean these:

Quote:

7.62x48R based on shortened 7.62x54R cartridge 139grain (9g) @ (725mps) 2378fps Circa 1916 - 1918 by V. E. Markovich. Used in converted Mosin Nagant actioned rifles.







would like to see a pic of this wildcat cartridge

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Hardrada55
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: lancaster]
      #236212 - 29/09/13 06:32 AM

I'd love to see a picture of the rifle, too.

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Bokmal
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Hardrada55]
      #236224 - 29/09/13 08:30 PM

These are scans from a xeroxed copy an early 1960ies export brochure for Soviet civilian small arms and ammo. Sorry for the quality!



Edited by Bokmal (30/09/13 01:57 AM)

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lancaster
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Bokmal]
      #236262 - 01/10/13 01:23 AM

thank for the scans, the 8,2x66 is a cartridge many collectors are looking for

this dealer have a Winchester 95 in 9,3x53R
http://www.pyssypuoti.fi/kauppa/product_details.php?p=842

and another one

http://www.pyssypuoti.fi/kauppa/product_details.php?p=936

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Edited by lancaster (01/10/13 01:25 AM)

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Deutsche_Vortrekker
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: lancaster]
      #236459 - 07/10/13 10:11 AM

I believe there was a Finnish M95 Winchester in 7.62x53R in the Finnish movie Mosku

Edited by Deutsche_Vortrekker (07/10/13 01:03 PM)

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Igorrock
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Deutsche_Vortrekker]
      #236464 - 07/10/13 03:15 PM

Quote:

I believe there was a Finnish M95 Winchester in 7.62x53R in the Finnish movie Mosku


Correct. But in the book, where the real story has been told, Mosku`s rifle has described so that in the real life it was m94 in caliber .30-30 or .25-35. Winchester carbine rifles were not so uncommon in finnish Lapland because they were quite popular "souvenir" for those finnish immigrant who came back from USA.



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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Igorrock]
      #236588 - 10/10/13 03:07 PM

I loved the movie and have watched it many times with English subtitles. My Finnish can grab a few words now and again. Was the book written in English ? If so I would love to obtain a copy

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Deutsche_Vortrekker]
      #236597 - 10/10/13 11:15 PM

The story what we now discuss about has been told in two different books; first one is "Ihmismetsästäjiä ja erämiehiä". and the second one "Vanhat kalajumalat".The author is K.M. Wallenius.
The first one has been translated to sweden and german language, but not in english. The german language book is: Menschenjäger und Fallensteller. Fahrten und Streiffzüge durch die Wildmarken Lapplands. Übersetzt von Rita Öhquist und prof. Kolster. Leipzig-Berlin 1944. Lühe Verlag.

The author was general in finnish army. Here link to Wikipedia article which you could tranlate in english with GOOGLE:

http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/K._M._Wallenius

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Igorrock]
      #236599 - 10/10/13 11:35 PM

No need for GOOGLE Translator, K.M. Wallenius on English wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurt_Martti_Wallenius

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: kuduae]
      #236601 - 11/10/13 12:46 AM

Thanks, the finnish version includes more fact of his author career.

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Igorrock]
      #237914 - 17/11/13 10:02 PM

found this pic of an old sowjet made 9,3x53R ammo box


http://www.google.de/imgres?sa=X&biw...et/page/item/id,143202719,var,cartouches-9x53R,language,F.html&docid=pg74_yHWNIFKpM&imgurl=http://images-00.delcampe-static.net/img_large/auction/000/143/202/719_001.jpg&w=545&h=730&ei=GqGIUum7BIqbtAarrYG4Ag&zoom=1&iact=rc&dur=2&page=1&tbnh=122&tbnw=112&start=0&ndsp=19&ved=1t:429,r:11,s:0,i:115&tx=919&ty=441

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Igorrock]
      #237981 - 19/11/13 05:03 AM

Quote:

These Mosins are for sale here in Finlad, price 85€/piece. All made by SAKO:

http://www.tori.fi/lappi/Sakon_kivaareita_7390264.htm?ca=14&w=3

7x53R


8,2x53R


9,3x53R



Well I am on my way to building my Sako/ Mannerheim Mosin Nagant sporter . I have just got my stock blank in Arctic Flame birch . Need some help with the barrel length on these Sako sporters though and in particular Mannerheims 1943 Sako hunting rifle . Any help will be greatly appreciated ! Will be posting pictures of my progress

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Deutsche_Vortrekker]
      #237982 - 19/11/13 07:49 AM

After WWII SAKO made civilized Mosins with 600 mm barrel. Those rifles caliber were 6,3x53R, 7x53R, 8,2x53R and finally 9,3x53R. NOT 7,62x53R which was allowed military purposes only. Those rifles used to have special rear sight with drum calibration. Nowadays this kind of sight is very uncommon, I have seen it only twice.

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Igorrock]
      #237985 - 19/11/13 10:20 AM

Thank you for this information Igorrock . I had aquired a pristine bore Sako M39 that someone had shortened the barrel to 24" and placed in a synthetic stock . I was worried that it was too short but now I am relieved . I will keep the rifle in the original 7.62x53r due to availability of ammunition . Our friend Bokmal sent me a picture of that rare drum sight : my sights will be from the Sako forester so close . I am reshaping the stock now to the correct proportions as the stockmaker had only a monte Carlo design inletted for the mosin . So I have a bit of whittling to do .

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Deutsche_Vortrekker]
      #238705 - 05/12/13 05:38 AM

Mosin sporting rifle build by Buss/Poland and proofed in Suhl 2/94
530mm long barel and Kahles Helia Super on claw mount 7,62x53R/7,62x54R
http://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=4696948#img











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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: lancaster]
      #238712 - 05/12/13 06:50 AM

I built a Mosin sporter per my customers specs a few years ago, not nearly as nice as some here but it managed to shoot very well and the customer was very pleased. Tikka M91 barrel shortened to 20" reblued, recrowned, RSI mount and action screws, Boyds stock, Weaver 4X steel tube. I think I charged 700 for it.

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Deutsche_Vortrekker]
      #238726 - 05/12/13 10:48 AM


The 1943 Sako Mannerheim hunting rifle project is in full progress.Just finished the rough outline of my special order Arctic Birch stock .The only Mosin blank my stock duplicator had was a Monte Carlo type so I had to do much shaping to get it like this! As it was very light in color I dunked in some water to show the grain .Needless to say I am pleased .I have a close outline but much more work to be done. Have the Sako buttplate ,Sako extractor and Sako cocking piece. Was able to obtain an original Sako front sight .I have a partial rear sight here but my friend Bokmal has procured a complete rear sight in Finland for me that should arrive shortly. My M39 Sako doner rifle has a mint bore. Sling swivels and barrel band will arrive shortly .Bolt handle is being welded ; Lots of work to do!

Edited by Deutsche_Vortrekker (05/12/13 10:50 AM)

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Deutsche_Vortrekker]
      #238732 - 05/12/13 03:38 PM

Yours stock wood has so big colour differences that it´s difficult to notice it as beeing made from Arctic birch. Here in finland this wood is normaly much lighter coloured.

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Deutsche_Vortrekker]
      #238735 - 05/12/13 05:20 PM

Quote:

As it was very light in color I dunked in some water to show the grain .Needless to say I am pleased.


That sure looks like a Grade Extra Fancy piece of Arctic Birch! It actually looks a lot like the grain on Mannerheims Mosin in the museum.

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Bokmal]
      #238747 - 06/12/13 12:11 AM

Quote:

Quote:

As it was very light in color I dunked in some water to show the grain .Needless to say I am pleased.


That sure looks like a Grade Extra Fancy piece of Arctic Birch! It actually looks a lot like the grain on Mannerheims Mosin in the museum.


Bokmal ,I found the wood almost by chance after searching and calling many (over 20) wood suppliers. The guy even forgot he had had it and the Tag on the blank said " Flame Birch Finland" It had been in his Barn/shop for over 20 years! The stock is so close grained you would not need to put stock oil on it. It has zero pores. I am going to use light coats of Teak oil for finishing to bring out the grain further .The stock coloring is very yellow underneath with dark flame throughout .When you look at the stock at different angles new flame pops up making it seem 3D. This stock and rifle are meant to represent Field Marshal Mannerheim who I consider to be one of the greatest leaders ever who has always been an inspiration to me and noting will be spared in its building.Here are a couple more pictures from different angles

Edited by Deutsche_Vortrekker (06/12/13 12:32 AM)

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Deutsche_Vortrekker]
      #238749 - 06/12/13 12:44 AM

Quote:

The stock is so close grained you would not need to put stock oil on it. It has zero pores. I am going to use light coats of Teak oil for finishing to bring out the grain further .

It´s usefull to know that birch, as sort of wood, is much more "living" than normal walnut i.e. if you don´t impegrate it carefully enough it could easily warp if humidity conditions vary much.

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Igorrock]
      #238779 - 06/12/13 04:21 AM

The best prices I've seen here on original military Mosin Nagent - Russian brand new still in cosmoline, with bayonets is $169.00 CDN at the local Wholesale Sports.

Almost bought one, last month - to play with - maybe I'll get one, afterall?

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Igorrock]
      #238802 - 06/12/13 07:50 AM

Quote:

Quote:

The stock is so close grained you would not need to put stock oil on it. It has zero pores. I am going to use light coats of Teak oil for finishing to bring out the grain further .

It´s usefull to know that birch, as sort of wood, is much more "living" than normal walnut i.e. if you don´t impegrate it carefully enough it could easily warp if humidity conditions vary much.

I do not want to darken the wood on this rifle . Any suggestions from my Finnish friends for proper gunstock finish on Arctic Birch would be appreciated . Something clear and penetrating I should think

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Deutsche_Vortrekker]
      #238809 - 06/12/13 09:24 AM

Original old finnish Mosin civil stocks has mostly finished with linseed oil- or cellulose-based warnish which gives wood light brownish yellow tone. In my stock works I have used many years Rustins`Danish Oil. It gives wood a light tone which IMO is quite near of those original ones. This oil consist of Tung oil added with some resins and a tad of colour pigment. It penetrates good and when applied layers enough it makes very nice smooth shiny surface which gives to wood very good protection against rain and air humidity.

This puukkos handle piece has impegrated with Danish Oil. As you see the colour of the birch is very light:



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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Igorrock]
      #238811 - 06/12/13 12:30 PM

I had always thought that pine tar was used, interesting, you learn something new everyday.

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: headoftheholler]
      #238827 - 06/12/13 05:53 PM

Pine tar is good when impegrating wood items who "lives" outdoor whole of their life, for example wooden boats. For indoor use pine tar isn´t so good because warmth makes it sticky and messy. Nowadays is quite popular to mix pine tar, linseed oil and pine turpentine together. This combimation is easier to apply and wouldn´t be sticky even in warm conditions. And it penetrates better too.

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Igorrock]
      #238884 - 07/12/13 12:57 AM

I make a pine tar wax out of 1/3 Finnish pine tar ,1/3 Natural Beeswax and 1/3 Turpentine . I rub it in everything from gunstocks to leather boots for waterproofing . Haven't found anything better yet

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Deutsche_Vortrekker]
      #238901 - 07/12/13 03:13 AM

I never use beeswax with leather; it makes leather waterproof but sooner or later crispy too when drying back to wax mode. Lanoline mixed with biobased greases is my option when working with leather.

My own mix to wood is 3/5 Carnaubawax with 1/5 Beeswax and 1/5 Pine Turpentine. You could add some boiled lenseed oil too. Warm all in tin can which swimming in boiling water. When all wax has melted and mixed to solvent take the can awy and let it cool of. Wax is ready to use when turpentine has vapoured of. This is hard wax which I use as a tread over Danish Oil impegrated wood items.

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Igorrock]
      #238932 - 07/12/13 11:00 AM

Interesting although I have always had great results with beeswax . Even Sno -prof uses heavy doses of beeswax in their product and has the reputation of the best footwear weatherproofing on the market . I think the pine tar makes it even better though

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Deutsche_Vortrekker]
      #239165 - 12/12/13 05:40 AM





Sako buttplate now fitted to shaped and sanded Arctic Birch stock. Had to make a barrel sleeve to fit over the barrel to hide unsightly sight screw hole .Considered welding and dismissed as to effect on bore and chamber .Will use low temp silver solder to install and will rust blue entire rifle .Making receiver studs for pillar bedding next. Also finished cutting barrel to 600 mm and recrowning

Edited by Deutsche_Vortrekker (13/12/13 05:30 AM)

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Deutsche_Vortrekker]
      #239304 - 15/12/13 08:42 AM


Today soldered on the Sako front sight .Adapted a WW2 PE sniper base in a similar fashion to the Finnish 28/76 scope base. Base was Silver soldered onto receiver using low temp high strength Silver Solder and the use of heat sink. I have done this operation many times with good results. The inside of the base was hollowed out slightly more to allow access to iron sights

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Deutsche_Vortrekker]
      #239509 - 19/12/13 04:30 AM


Took the Sako to the range yesterday with unfinished but glass bedded stock to proof the rifle with some very warm handloads. Fired 3 hot 7,62x53R loads with good results. Rechecked headspace and all is good. Stamped Rifle barrel with 7,62x53R and Nitro N crown proofmarks

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Deutsche_Vortrekker]
      #239538 - 19/12/13 04:40 PM

Did you know the mauser 98 -type safety for Mosin ? Same idea to work but just opposite way. Lancaster has used one of such on his rifle.

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Igorrock]
      #239574 - 20/12/13 05:26 AM

Thanks Igorrock ,yes Bokmal had acquired one for me .I will consider using it but then I wont be able to use my Sako marked cocking piece ;decisions decisions .I saw a very nice detachable ring that attaches to the cocking piece I am also considering. As I plan to use a PE top mount with a Zeiss scope some sort of safety is in order .I do appreciate all of your valuable help ,knowledge and information on Finnish rifles. This project is coming together very quickly and am hoping to use the Sako for late winter Bobcat ,Fox and Wolf hunting

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Deutsche_Vortrekker]
      #241795 - 05/02/14 07:06 PM

a Mosin sporting rifle build by FEG(Fegyver És Gépgyár) in Budapest
for sale in Hungary, 7,62x54R with shortened magazin and claw mount






http://vadaszapro.net/reszletek/206681/feg-gv-7,62x54r-gyartasi-szam:0028

it seems FEG had made a lot of this rifles because MFS in Hungary is making 7,62x54R hunting ammo for decades

another one

http://vadaszapro.net/reszletek/206434/magyar-feg







the interesting thing here is that FEG not only cut the magazin but giving the firing pin nut the typical shape of the mannlicher schönauer firing pin nut. we are here in the old sphere of influence of the Steyr factory and the hungarian hunter had some beliefs how a rifle had to be.


in style very close to a FEG look alike mannlicher schönauer build with a G 98/40 action



here you see the changed firing pin nut clearly
http://vadaszapro.net/reszletek/206425/feg-gv







the action was also rebarreled for rimless rounds like 30 06
http://vadaszapro.net/reszletek/65437/feg-gv-30-06









Edited by lancaster (05/02/14 07:50 PM)

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: lancaster]
      #241801 - 05/02/14 07:59 PM

there are also rifles with the original action, probably FEG make different grades of sporter over the years

http://vadaszapro.net/reszletek/206066/feg-gv






another 3006 clearly build on a Mosin action

http://vadaszapro.net/reszletek/191571/feg-gv






a best grade sporter

http://vadaszapro.net/reszletek/204795/zkk-600,-feg-gv,-es-.22-es-olcson






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Edited by lancaster (06/02/14 06:07 AM)

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: lancaster]
      #241824 - 06/02/14 06:00 AM

we have had two mosin sporting rifles in the long thread before of unknown or unclear origin but undoubted quality.





and this








I still remember having a similar rifle in my hands twenty years ago. was looking for many years for the firm making this, a firm like ...FEG.
It seems FEG had made this hunting rifles over a long time in different grades and different styles. some features are most obvious and the combination make the rifle very distinctive.
the best grade was undoubtedly the rifle with classic stock, cut down single row magazion for 3 rounds, spoon lever bolt handle, shotgun style trigger guard, a 3 feet claw mount no doubt made at FEG factory, double set trigger


FEG build sporting rifles with Mauser 98, Mosin and Mannlicher 98/40 actions but there was a pattern they copy

FEG 98/40 sporter

FEG Mosin sporter


you see that they very similar in stock desgin, trigger, trigger guard, spoon handle and checkering


they copy the honourable Mannlicher Schönauer


this could be sleeper for the serious bolt action collector like the swedish husqvarna rifles once and they sell for a similar price.

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: lancaster]
      #241829 - 06/02/14 07:36 AM

These first and last Mosin in the earlier post are my favourites. The way they have shortened the magazine would be nice know because I still working on it. Just got a new stock blank from BOYDS.

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Igorrock]
      #241841 - 06/02/14 05:33 PM

Quote:

These first and last Mosin in the earlier post are my favourites. The way they have shortened the magazine would be nice know because I still working on it. Just got a new stock blank from BOYDS.



yes, this are the rifle's looking how it have to be
it seems they selling in the 200-300 euro price range

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: lancaster]
      #241993 - 08/02/14 10:42 PM

I decided to change the scope mounting rail to a lower profile so I adapted a steel picatinny rail from a Sako TRG to fit . All metal work is complete .Have a slightly lower profile bold handle coming .The stock is currently curing under the 5th coat of 100% pure tung oil

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Deutsche_Vortrekker]
      #241994 - 08/02/14 10:53 PM

Quote:

picatinny rail from a Sako TRG to fit

Picatinny rail to classic finnish style Mosin, you must be joking....

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Deutsche_Vortrekker
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Igorrock]
      #242004 - 09/02/14 01:27 AM

Well, I am limited on my scope mounting options Igorrock . I am open for suggestions. Remember though that the Weaver type mounting has been around since before WW2

Edited by Deutsche_Vortrekker (09/02/14 01:46 AM)

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Igorrock
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Deutsche_Vortrekker]
      #242011 - 09/02/14 04:03 AM

Quote:

Remember though that the Weaver type mounting has been around since before WW2


Yes but those rails and mounts are awfull rude. I personally prefer sidemount but for example, this kind of rail looks much better, it costs here in Finland 59€ (with screws).



And this is very traditional and so even better.



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Deutsche_Vortrekker
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Igorrock]
      #242022 - 09/02/14 07:08 AM

Yes, as you see in my pictures I originally adapted PE base and mount but it was very high . It would be very easy for me to switch back . I had planned to use double lever qd rings on the base that is on there now

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Deutsche_Vortrekker]
      #242023 - 09/02/14 07:15 AM

eaw make the side mount for the mosin
http://www.eaw.de/assets/files/drZf_21_AM_seitl_M.pdf

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Igorrock
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: lancaster]
      #242029 - 09/02/14 07:46 AM

Maybe you Vortrekker have noticed that my Mosin has stationary sidemount with 17 mm rail. With this you could use any mounted rings what you want. It´s not too high to me because without scope and rings I could use iron sights too.



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Deutsche_Vortrekker
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Igorrock]
      #242040 - 09/02/14 09:31 AM

Igorrock , I like that mount but I have never seen another except on your rifle . Do you know where to find one ?

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Igorrock
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Deutsche_Vortrekker]
      #242043 - 09/02/14 10:13 AM

Quote:

Do you know where to find one ?

Gunsmith just made it. It´s one piece of steel, quite easy to with milling machine.

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Igorrock]
      #242056 - 09/02/14 08:49 PM

The EAW made mount looks good.

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lancaster
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: FinnCollector]
      #242064 - 09/02/14 10:52 PM

yes, looks good, easy and quick to take the scope away and you canb use the iron sights without problems

looks very similar like this




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Igorrock
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: lancaster]
      #242277 - 13/02/14 12:37 AM

Here is interesting link to czech gunsmith who convert Mosins with classic style:

http://zbrane.webz.cz/2.html









Edited by NitroX (17/02/14 07:27 AM)

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lancaster
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Igorrock]
      #242295 - 13/02/14 06:32 AM

nice work and very classic, the stock with "Bäckchen" ...
there is not a dry eye left

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Tom_H
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: lancaster]
      #242538 - 17/02/14 06:03 AM

Vortrekker,
don't sweat having the wrong mount for the gun for now. Just try an make sure that the hole spacing is something relatively standard so that when you put the next mount on it won't look like swiss cheese.
There are a number of side mounts on the market and the simple contour of the Mosin makes it easy to work with.
Those EAW mounts are fine but pricy. Claw mounts would look best but good luck with that.
There are still U.S. manufacturers making side mounts.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/317079/williams-side-mount-sm-71-base-only-aluminum-matte

is a Willams mount that uses screw on bases that hang over the bore. Actually not a bad set up. They have been around for years but aren't terribly popular. I have the standard top mount on a ruger 10-22 and I can use the scope as a carry handle.
You should be able to get into a set for about $100

It isn't steel, but then again Griffin & Howe side mounts have been aluminum for years and you could probably by 3 or 4 of these for the cost of one of those.

By the way, excellent thread

Tom

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Igorrock
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Tom_H]
      #242547 - 17/02/14 09:42 AM

This is good item for copying it from steel....

Some years ago I had similar over my .22 lr TOZ



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Deutsche_Vortrekker
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Tom_H]
      #242882 - 22/02/14 12:45 PM

Thanks Tom , I have not drilled any holes so far as I am useing a very low temp Silver solder for the mount testing until I decide which way to go . Some side mounts are hugely cumbersome and don't hold a zero : I have seen this more than once . As I will be using a compact Zeiss scope I won't be needing a large mount but it has to be stable . I really do like the short rail I have on there now and plan to use double lever QD rings . Also the iron sights must be quickly usable by detaching the scope .

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Tom_H
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Deutsche_Vortrekker]
      #242962 - 24/02/14 06:50 AM

If you go with the Williams mount, you will be able to shoot under due to the over hanging rings. As I said, it is a pretty sturdy setup and if I was going to do a similar rig, that would probably be the way to go. Detachable, but not necessarily necessary.

I just finished a set of rings for a mannlicher that had claw mounts and it was a substantial investment in time, mostly due to the offset. I don't particularly like the offset rear but in this case there really wasn't an option as the bases were already there.
From what I have seen, when working with this type of an action with a split rear bridge, the side mount works best. Go do a google image search on all of the different types of mounts for that style rifle, and the variety is endless.
Mauser, not so much as it is a far easier job.

Also as for the rear sight, I would lose the military one and fit a single standing rear. If you have a drill and a file, not too time consuming a job. Can look very nice and classes up the rifle even further

Cheers
Tom

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Tom_H]
      #242988 - 24/02/14 02:27 PM

I have early Sako sporter sights on the rifle not military

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Igorrock
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Deutsche_Vortrekker]
      #242994 - 24/02/14 08:56 PM

In my Mosin it´s sidemount has attached so low that it is possible to shoot with open sights when just taking the scope away.

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Tom_H
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Igorrock]
      #243023 - 25/02/14 09:35 AM

My mistake, I saw the tangent sight and immediately equated it with military. Should have noticed the 500m graduation.

Tom

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Tom_H]
      #243033 - 25/02/14 02:05 PM

Igorrock : This is the balance I am looking for ; easy use of iron sights in harsh winter weather but also the use of a low power scope with the sighting comfortable for both .

Tom : It's an easy mistake as the early Sako sporter sights closely resemble military ; that's why I like them .

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Deutsche_Vortrekker]
      #243169 - 01/03/14 11:36 AM


Not to get too far ahead of myself but his is my next Finnish Mosin project .A select piece of Arctic Flame Birch that will duplicate a Tikka Master Sporter stock and inletted for a Mosin

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Igorrock
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Deutsche_Vortrekker]
      #243182 - 02/03/14 01:04 AM

You have find a special "Finnish touch" to yours rifles style: specially made high quality wooden stock and then Picatinny rail attached. That kind of mixed "style" is very typical for finnish Mosin builders. By the the way; russian type bent bolt handle do not belong to finnish SAKO -made Mosins.

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Deutsche_Vortrekker
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Igorrock]
      #243184 - 02/03/14 05:08 AM

The bolt handle is only temporary . I have a really nice low swept bolt handle that I am having done right now . I used this sniper bolt for test purpose only . I am not even sure about the rail but I do like the access of it with double lever rings


Edited by Deutsche_Vortrekker (02/03/14 06:11 AM)

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lancaster
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Deutsche_Vortrekker]
      #243852 - 15/03/14 08:47 PM

a rare 6,3x53R sporter for sale in finland


http://www.pyssypuoti.fi/kauppa/product_details.php?p=1340

9,3x53R with side mount and scope



http://www.pyssypuoti.fi/kauppa/product_details.php?p=1334

a 7x53R, also a more rare wildcat



http://www.pyssypuoti.fi/kauppa/product_details.php?p=1245

Winchester 95 in 8,2x53R



http://www.pyssypuoti.fi/kauppa/product_details.php?p=1327

a typical 7,62x53R





http://www.pyssypuoti.fi/kauppa/product_details.php?p=1206

Winchester 95 in 9,3x53R



http://www.pyssypuoti.fi/kauppa/product_details.php?p=936

and another Winchester 95 in 9,3x53R



http://www.pyssypuoti.fi/kauppa/product_details.php?p=842





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Edited by lancaster (15/03/14 09:04 PM)

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Igorrock
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: lancaster]
      #243903 - 16/03/14 07:28 PM

Yes, we don´t have any lack of those old Mosins and Mod. 95 Winchesters´s.

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lancaster
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Igorrock]
      #243907 - 16/03/14 09:41 PM

these winchesters are real sleeper but I like especially the 6,3x53R on top
it have an absolute fantastic nordic birch stock

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Edited by lancaster (17/03/14 03:30 AM)

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Deutsche_Vortrekker
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: lancaster]
      #243931 - 17/03/14 08:23 AM

I can't wait to get my Finnish Mosin sporter finished . I have contracted a logger in Northern Wisconsin who specializes in blanks of Arctic Flame Birch from the Northern areas of Michigan , Wisconsin and Minnesota which have large expanses of Birch forest. I have 4 more high grade Arctic Flame Birch gunstock blanks right now and a project to duplicate Tikka Master Sporter stock for a Mosin will be in the works shortly as I finish up the first project .

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lancaster
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Deutsche_Vortrekker]
      #243964 - 18/03/14 05:44 AM

just post for making "view" number - 60000 -


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Edited by lancaster (18/03/14 05:45 AM)

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mehulkamdar
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: lancaster]
      #244736 - 01/04/14 02:54 AM

Lancaster,

Those are some amazing and rare rifles in chamberings that are alien to me, and, I suspect, to many more people here. Is there any compilation of the various wildcats / proprietary rounds on the Mosin Nagant case? I only knew about the 7.62 Mosin and I saw just one 9mm Meved rifle many years ago when I worked briefly in Russia. This is just academic interest. Would be good to have this information on the forums, though.

Thanks in advance, and good hunting!

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kuduae
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: mehulkamdar]
      #244739 - 01/04/14 04:20 AM

Quote:

Is there any compilation of the various wildcats / proprietary rounds on the Mosin Nagant case?


Read Gun Digest 54th edition, 2000, page 106: "Children of the 7.62x54R" by Janne Pohojoispää, describing 5.7x53R, 6.3x53R, 7x53R, 8.2x53R, 9x53R, 9.3x53R, 9.5x53R, .416x53R and 11.6x53R.

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Igorrock
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: kuduae]
      #244740 - 01/04/14 05:15 AM

All of those calibers has been done but three biggest ones are very late versions and very seldom seen.

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lancaster
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: mehulkamdar]
      #244741 - 01/04/14 06:05 AM

Quote:

Lancaster,

I only knew about the 7.62 Mosin and I saw just one 9mm Meved rifle many years ago



the russian 9mm cartridge is just the russian designation for what is in fact the russian version of the 9,3x53R.
so it have not the .358 bullet diameter but a .365 diameter bullet what is compatible with the common .366 diameter.

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mehulkamdar
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: lancaster]
      #244755 - 01/04/14 09:06 AM

Kuduae / Igorrock / Lancaster,

Thank you very much! I bought a complete set of Gun Digest annuals some time ago and will check. Should be a most interesting topic to read up on.

Good hunting!

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Deutsche_Vortrekker
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Igorrock]
      #248324 - 02/06/14 09:36 AM

The Sako Mannerheim rifle is almost complete .Only the stock checkering remains. The first piece of Arctic Birch I was to use was a bit green ,so I clamped it into another M39 for the summer to dry. Fortunately I now have a supplier of Arctic flame Birch so another stock was made ,pillar and glass bedded. I finally contoured and matted a weaver rail for my low profile scope mount. I plan to do another Finnish Mosin this summer in 9.3x53R Finnish. I used Tung oil for the stock finish.


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Igorrock
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Deutsche_Vortrekker]
      #248342 - 02/06/14 06:16 PM

Stock looks very nice. I hope you don´t let those numbers be white, it makes cheap outlook to yours rifle.

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lancaster
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Igorrock]
      #248364 - 03/06/14 02:51 AM

the artic flame birch is absolut fantastic
it looks like its living and reminds me on such opical illusion







great to hear about another 9,3x53R project but where did you get a chamber reamer?

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Deutsche_Vortrekker
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: lancaster]
      #248379 - 03/06/14 06:23 AM

Quote:

the artic flame birch is absolut fantastic
it looks like its living and reminds me on such opical illusion







great to hear about another 9,3x53R project but where did you get a chamber reamer?


The Arctic Flame Birch is incredible wood.It tactually changes color as you look at the stripes from different angles dark becomes light and light becomes dark. Magical. The fellow that does my reboring has a 9.3x53R (Finnish) reamer.He does excellent work. I am not starting work until late summer though as I have to round up original Sako parts such as sights,cocking piece ,extractor ect.I dont want to harm an original Sako M39 .I was very fortunate to find this rifle as it had already been converted to a sporter with shortened barrel and plastic stock.Even so it took me quite a while because Mannerheims Sako is a 1943 date.

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: lancaster]
      #248406 - 03/06/14 08:19 PM

Quote:



You no longer like double rifles

and want to sell yours to NitroX for a glass of beer.





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Deutsche_Vortrekker
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Igorrock]
      #248834 - 12/06/14 04:31 AM

Quote:

You have find a special "Finnish touch" to yours rifles style: specially made high quality wooden stock and then Picatinny rail attached. That kind of mixed "style" is very typical for finnish Mosin builders.


Initial zero and accuracy test with Iron sights was excellent. Used my Finnish match load of 40.0 grains VVN140 powder ,Lapua cases and a Lapua D-166 200 grain .3095 bullet ,velocity 2,340 fps . I have shot this load with sub moa angle at 600 with my Finnish M39 sniper rifle so I know it is accurate.I slugged my bore and it was right at .3095 . I shot all tests groups at 100 from sitting and prone with a Rucksack which I use hunting. I also had no problem breaking clay birds at 200 on the side of a hill standing position. I will do further testing with hunting loads at at later date.

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Igorrock
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Deutsche_Vortrekker]
      #248839 - 12/06/14 06:50 AM

Seems that yours Mosin shoots well and you´re a good shooter too.

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Igorrock]
      #248842 - 12/06/14 07:02 AM

Thank you . Finnish Mosin rifles from my experience ,if having a good bore and bedded propetly are among the most accurate military rifles ever made .The important thing in getting any Mosin to shoot is to slug the bore so correct diameter bullets are used.The Finns used shims to bed their rifles. I go a bit further and pillar bed the action along with glass bedding and free floating the barrel.

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Deutsche_Vortrekker]
      #251573 - 05/08/14 02:57 PM

WOW! You guys have really inspired me. I have a ww2 Russian 91/30 in a laminated stock. It looked like it have been back to the arsenal multiple times when I bought-nothing matched; but since I wanted a cheap shooter I didn't care. THEN I started stripping it and cleaning away the years of grease and it started looking nice.

Shooting it with surplus ammo turned out to be a pleasant surprise too. I wanted to add a scope but NOT make a "sniper clone"; still I wanted something which looked "European" but not spend a fortune. So I decided to use a PU scope/mount and to keep it from being the "clone", Im having a Butterknife bolt handle made. My thought was that it would give it that 1950-60s era custom build look.

I THOUGHT I was finished with Mosin Nagants; but now that Ive read this thread, I think Im hooked. The picture on pg11 of the Full Stocked sporter has me drooling. Im headed out in the morning for a suitable donor rifle.

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: EDELWEISS]
      #251586 - 05/08/14 10:14 PM

Quote:

WOW! You guys have really inspired me. I have a ww2 Russian 91/30 in a laminated stock. It looked like it have been back to the arsenal multiple times when I bought-nothing matched; but since I wanted a cheap shooter I didn't care. THEN I started stripping it and cleaning away the years of grease and it started looking nice.

Shooting it with surplus ammo turned out to be a pleasant surprise too. I wanted to add a scope but NOT make a "sniper clone"; still I wanted something which looked "European" but not spend a fortune. So I decided to use a PU scope/mount and to keep it from being the "clone", Im having a Butterknife bolt handle made. My thought was that it would give it that 1950-60s era custom build look.

I THOUGHT I was finished with Mosin Nagants; but now that Ive read this thread, I think Im hooked. The picture on pg11 of the Full Stocked sporter has me drooling. Im headed out in the morning for a suitable donor rifle.


The Mosin Nagant has always been a most reliable military rifle.Anyone who has shot a Finnish barreled Mosin or studied the history of Russian sniper varients well knows how accurate this rifle system can be.In Olympic and International shooting competition Mosin actioned rifles hold more medals than any other.As you can see from this thread that the Mosin can also be made into a beautiful personal sporting rifle which can be built to any taste. Good luck on your quest . We are here to help.

Edited by Deutsche_Vortrekker (05/08/14 10:16 PM)

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Deutsche_Vortrekker
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Igorrock]
      #251646 - 07/08/14 01:08 AM

Quote:

Seems that yours Mosin shoots well and you´re a good shooter too.

Igorrock , I am designing a scope base out of 1/4" hardened steel plate to duplicate the Sako Riihimaki scope base dovetails for my Sako Mosin sporter.I will be able to use my early Sako Riihimaki rings


Edited by Deutsche_Vortrekker (07/08/14 02:17 AM)

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Deutsche_Vortrekker
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Deutsche_Vortrekker]
      #253057 - 02/09/14 02:48 AM

The Sako base is finished and installed. I hand made the base out of hardened steel stock to duplicate the early Sako Riihimaki tapered receiver dovetail so I can use the original Sako Riihimaki windage adjustable rings .The project came out perfectly. Left to do is Checker (matte) the top of the base in a 40 line per inch pattern to match the original Sako receivers .My bolt handle is also finished and is more fitting to an early Sako sporter.


Edited by Deutsche_Vortrekker (04/09/14 01:15 AM)

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Igorrock
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Deutsche_Vortrekker]
      #253058 - 02/09/14 03:36 AM

Looks good !

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9.3x57
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Igorrock]
      #253068 - 02/09/14 11:49 AM

Deutsche Voortrekker, that sight base looks awesome. Great idea and excellent execution! That stock is superb, too. Looks like it is under water with the sunlight playing on it!

A question:

Can anyone tell me if a Finn M28/30 or M39 rear sight will fit on an M91/30 rear sight base? I want to use one on a 91/30 sporter as the Finn sight is a better sight picture than the 91/30. I'm thinking the sight is a smidge too wide. ????

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: 9.3x57]
      #253069 - 02/09/14 01:07 PM

Quote:

Deutsche Voortrekker, that sight base looks awesome. Great idea and excellent execution! That stock is superb, too. Looks like it is under water with the sunlight playing on it!

A question:

Can anyone tell me if a Finn M28/30 or M39 rear sight will fit on an M91/30 rear sight base? I want to use one on a 91/30 sporter as the Finn sight is a better sight picture than the 91/30. I'm thinking the sight is a smidge too wide. ????

Thank you ! I do not think it will fit as the bases seem different but did you consider putting on Sako Forester/ L46 Riihimaki sights as I did .You see them on ebay quite often and they would be the correct sights for a Finnish Mosin sporter build.

Edited by Deutsche_Vortrekker (02/09/14 01:09 PM)

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Igorrock
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Deutsche_Vortrekker]
      #253070 - 02/09/14 01:44 PM

The easiest way to adjust sight picture is make a new plate for rear sight, attach it to the place with two small screws and then cut the groove as you like. So you don´t need to take old base away.

By the way, these not-so-good original 91/30 -sights are one main reason for developing our own finnish Mosin models.

Quote:

but did you consider putting on Sako Forester/ L46 Riihimaki sights as I did .You see them on ebay quite often and they would be the correct sights for a Finnish Mosin sporter build.

Other option is just use one steady leaf "island" rear sight, similar which you could find in older Husqvarna´s. SAKO used to have such before they built up their, IMO not so nice looking, ramp model.

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Igorrock]
      #253126 - 04/09/14 02:04 AM

Quote:

Looks good !

Igorrock you were so right about the prior scope mount...I am so glad I took your advice and changed it.Thanks for the helpful criticism !

Edited by Deutsche_Vortrekker (04/09/14 02:05 AM)

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EDELWEISS
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Deutsche_Vortrekker]
      #253144 - 04/09/14 07:40 AM

Quote:






WOW! that's a beautiful rifle. What is the barrel length? Im in the VERY early stages of a couple projects, that I hope will turn out as nice as yours. At this point Im thinking a 20inch full stock and a 24inch half stock with an octagonal barrel.

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: EDELWEISS]
      #253148 - 04/09/14 08:40 AM

Thanks for the kind words :I could not have even come close to getting this Mannerheim Sako right without lots of help from my Finnish friends Bokmal and Igorrock.The barrel length is 600 mm (23-5/8")which is the length of my other Riihimaki sporters.Good luck on your project : rest assured you will get lots of help (and opinions) on this forum!


Edited by Deutsche_Vortrekker (04/09/14 11:22 AM)

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9.3x57
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Deutsche_Vortrekker]
      #254658 - 06/10/14 01:10 AM

A pic from a recent trip to the range. Ten shots fired all from standing offhand, no rest; 5 at 100 meters and 5 from 75 meters. Rifle is a stock condition M91/30 Hex receiver {early version}. Trigger is the loooong "singlestage" Russian affair. Ammunition is Prvi Partizan 150 grain Soft Point.





I am still working the M39 Finn double-pull on my M/N 91/30 sporter down to remove last stage creep. It is getting there but not quite yet done.

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: 9.3x57]
      #254660 - 06/10/14 01:19 AM

anything you want

looks like indian summer have everything under control in your area. I hope you have the short pants in november also...

two old hunting pics from russia





http://www.surplusrifleforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=81980&start=120
think 1920s to 1930s

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Edited by lancaster (06/10/14 01:20 AM)

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9.3x57
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: lancaster]
      #254665 - 06/10/14 02:01 AM

lanc: Interesting!

That rifle magazine doesn't quite look Mosin.

We are now at 20's for the morning temps {Fahrenheit} but still short pants in the afternoon! LOL.

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: 9.3x57]
      #254677 - 06/10/14 05:08 AM

Quote:

That rifle magazine doesn't quite look Mosin.

Maybe Mosin which has converted as a shotgun....?

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9.3x57
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Igorrock]
      #254681 - 06/10/14 07:27 AM

Could be.

There appears to be some sort of modification to the stock ahead of the magazine, too. Or is it some sort of weird "Mauser" magazine modification? Never heard of such a thing and it would seem to be much work for more or less nothing. Who knows. Many Mausers were converted to shotgun so maybe your hunch is right.

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: 9.3x57]
      #254699 - 06/10/14 03:25 PM

In Sovjetic times most russian hunters used shotgun because the ownership of rifle was very restricted.

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9.3x57
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Igorrock]
      #254723 - 07/10/14 01:54 AM

Yes.

I have read that in rural areas shotguns were fairly easily obtained.

A surprising {to me at least} number of rifles and even semiautos were available for professional hunting purposes. Shilin describes an AK model in semiauto that was issued to professional antelope hunters in Kazahkstan. I've seen pix of hunters with SKS rifles as well so at least some were able toobtain these types of guns.

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: 9.3x57]
      #254794 - 08/10/14 04:18 AM

what I have learned ofver the years was that the common hunter only get a shotgun for years but he had to join a local hunting club. surprisingly shotgun cartridge handloading was common over the decades but before WW 2 only with blackpowder, after the war blackpowder and smokless powder. I have see such a smokless powder can with reloading data for 12 and 16 ga. the powder was the same the russians load in 7,62x54R blanks, NO DOUBT.
I have some russian brass shotgun cases in 12, 16 and 20 ga.( they made 24, 28 and 32 brass cases too) and some of them have the typical traces of blackpowder loads fired.
something that puzzle me is the 8,2x66 SR hunting cartridge from the 1930s with its low velocity and lead bullet. I would not wonder if this round was loaded by hand with blackpowder.


btw, the russians were not different from other people and hide all kinds of illegals guns

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Edited by lancaster (09/10/14 02:19 AM)

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Deutsche_Vortrekker
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: 9.3x57]
      #256402 - 08/11/14 08:52 AM


1943 Sako Riihimaki 7.62x53R with a German Nickel 4x36 in original Sako rings .This project is about complete and my next will be a 9.3x53R

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Deutsche_Vortrekker]
      #256420 - 08/11/14 09:05 PM

Congratulations, a real beauty!

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Bokmal]
      #256617 - 12/11/14 07:32 AM

A small off-topic but I found this from other forum where one russian guy wrote as follows:

"In modern literature often uses the term "Mosin-Nagant". This is a mistake. There is a separate rifle Mosin, and in a few exemplairs - Nagant rifle. It participated in the tender for the Russian army in 1891. The main reason that the Nagant did not win, was in the complexity of the bolt: it uses two screws. The article (she unfortunately in Russian) there are many images of both rifles, as well as early versions of the Mosin rifles"

http://coollib.net/b/260854/read

"The fact of the matter is that Nagant rifles were produced only 300 pieces. They can be seen in the Artillery Museum in St. Petersburg, and I don't know whether they are somewhere else. Perhaps in European collections you can find prototypes that participated in the Belgian tender in 1889. Then Nagant lost to Mauser.
From very beginning Mosin rifle named as "Mosin rifle", here French scheme 1912 (some rifles produced in France)"





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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Igorrock]
      #256618 - 12/11/14 09:49 AM

Afaik just half correct: The Mosin-Nagant is named such as it is a combination of Nagant's magazine and feed system with the improved bolt by the Russian Mosin. Of course, Russian national pride ascribes the design to Mosin only, as usual.

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Bokmal
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: kuduae]
      #257191 - 25/11/14 05:57 PM

David Bolotins eminent book, Soviet Small Arms and Ammunition (Finnish Arms Museum Foundation 1995), illustrates this national bias in an amusing way. The author devotes several pages to a chapter named "The Mosin-Nagant rifle" without mentioning León Nagant even once...




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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Bokmal]
      #258491 - 03/01/15 05:43 AM

because there was allwas a more or less unvisible connection between swiss and finnisch guns
a Swiss M 1889 sporterised and in 9,3x53 Swiss
given away for 63 euro in the last Dorotheum auction in Vienna http://www.dorotheum.com/auktion-detail/...r.html?offset=2




its not common to see rifles in 9,3x53 for sale

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Edited by lancaster (03/01/15 05:58 AM)

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Cashman
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Deutsche_Vortrekker]
      #258855 - 09/01/15 09:22 PM

Quote:


1943 Sako Riihimaki 7.62x53R with a German Nickel 4x36 in original Sako rings .This project is about complete and my next will be a 9.3x53R



I find your project to be one of the most beautiful Mosin-Nagants I've ever seen on the web.
Can I buy it?
All joking aside… There might be a market for your Sako-Mosin-Nagant scope mount.
Atleast I would like to buy one.

My everyday moose hunting Mosin is the .45x54R I made a few yars ago.
The seccond most common rifle of mine is the 8,2x53R made by a gunsmith at Sako.

Only if the weather gets really bad, will I grab my composite stainless "something else than a Mosin-Nagant, thus not worth to be mentioned" rifle when I go hunting.

The most interesting Mosin-Nagant I ever saw is one chambered in .45 ACP.
It loads from a 1911 pistol magazine...
Just to remind you guys that there is no limit to what you can make out of a Mosin-Nagant.

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Deutsche_Vortrekker
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Cashman]
      #260064 - 07/02/15 04:39 AM

Quote:

Quote:


1943 Sako Riihimaki 7.62x53R with a German Nickel 4x36 in original Sako rings .This project is about complete and my next will be a 9.3x53R



I find your project to be one of the most beautiful Mosin-Nagants I've ever seen on the web.
Can I buy it?
All joking aside… There might be a market for your Sako-Mosin-Nagant scope mount.
Atleast I would like to buy one.

My everyday moose hunting Mosin is the .45x54R I made a few yars ago.
The seccond most common rifle of mine is the 8,2x53R made by a gunsmith at Sako.

Only if the weather gets really bad, will I grab my composite stainless "something else than a Mosin-Nagant, thus not worth to be mentioned" rifle when I go hunting.

The most interesting Mosin-Nagant I ever saw is one chambered in .45 ACP.
It loads from a 1911 pistol magazine...
Just to remind you guys that there is no limit to what you can make out of a Mosin-Nagant.


Thanks very much for your kind words . Although I did all the work on this project it would have been quite impossible without this forum and especially the help from Bokmal and Igorrock who not only helped me with knowledge and parts but in help with the Finnish culture and mindset that I want to make sure my ancestors did not leave behind in Finland . I am in process of restoration of a Sako Forester first year production 308 that also has a quite nice Arctic Birch stock also but this will be another thread . As for the scope mount it works quite well with the original Sako rings ; Thank Igorrock for his insight which pushed me into making this proper mount for a Finnish Mosin Nagant .

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9.3x57
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Deutsche_Vortrekker]
      #260094 - 07/02/15 05:41 PM

Awesome rifle.

Looks like it is under water with the light shimmering on the stock.

Amazing.

We have a few cobbled-on M/N's and have a lot of fun with them.

They are by comparison completely unrelated rifles to yours!!! LOL.

Very nice work, Voortrekker!

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: 9.3x57]
      #268632 - 27/07/15 10:54 PM


Shaped and sanded wet unfinished Arctic Birch stock for my next project : A Finnish Mosin "Hochsitz" rifle built on an unaltered M28/30 Sako barreled action I obtained with a broken stock . I will keep original sights and add my custom scope mount that uses vintage Sako rings that I used on the Mannerheim Sako .A Finnish M28/76 bolt handle will be used for the rifle .I will finish the stock with my Pine tar / tung oil mixture allowed to soak in the mountain summer sun

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Deutsche_Vortrekker]
      #268633 - 27/07/15 11:26 PM

Yours stock has good camouflage if you, in some day, will go to India for hunting tigers....

Very nice wood, indeed !

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Igorrock]
      #268642 - 28/07/15 04:00 AM

Quote:

Yours stock has good camouflage if you, in some day, will go to India for hunting tigers....

Very nice wood, indeed !


Thanks Igorrock , without help from you and Bokmal my Finnish Mosin projects would never have been completed. Your insight and comments are always appreciated !

Edited by Deutsche_Vortrekker (28/07/15 04:32 AM)

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Deutsche_Vortrekker]
      #268651 - 28/07/15 08:17 AM

Very nice wood.
Really like the the shape of the cheekpiece.

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Iowa_303s]
      #269261 - 15/08/15 03:42 AM

found the russian website with the pics of the NK 8,2x66SR Mosin hunting rifle
http://www.maksimov.su/in.php?tnum=1&...-8.2/nk-8.2.htm

we have to thank this gentleman for the excellent pics showing this forgotten hunting rifle in every detail

why such a big case and only a muzzle velocity of 440-450 m/sec ... well its blackpowder ballitic. when we remember that russia was a communist dictatorship in 1931 its surprising they sold black powder to hunter for reloading ammo BUT only blackpowder. so the 8,2x66 Semi Rimmed was big as possible for a maximum BP load but fits into the Mosin action and and the rifle cant be shot with russian service cartridges. up to the 1950s only blackpowder was available for the russian hunter but later they got also Nitro shotgun powder.


http://municion.org/


I would say the best basic brass to make this case is 6,5x68R



































































































































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Edited by lancaster (15/08/15 03:54 AM)

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Igorrock
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: lancaster]
      #269262 - 15/08/15 04:02 AM

Very interesting rifle, indeed. It´s funny to notice that they have adopted magazine locking system from Mauser. I would like to make similar magazine to my Mosin.

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Igorrock]
      #269264 - 15/08/15 06:05 AM

Quote:

Very interesting rifle, indeed. It´s funny to notice that they have adopted magazine locking system from Mauser. I would like to make similar magazine to my Mosin.



Yes, that is a very neat job.

Really nice pix, too.

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: 9.3x57]
      #269283 - 16/08/15 02:29 AM

A note to all Mosin Nagant lovers
Here is the contact info page for Weaver.

http://www.weaveroptics.com/general/contact_us.aspx

The M.N. is the most manufactured bolt action in the history of the world. In fact the NM is the 2nd most manufactured firearm ever made, second only to the AK47 and it's variants.

That being said, I wonder when Weaver is not making side mounts for them. They do make side mounts for SMLEs, 1917 Enfields, Carcanos, Arisakas, Schults&Larsens, Remington M-10s, Krags, Winchester M-42 Pump 410 Shotguns, Cooley m60s and Springfield 1903, -------------------Come on Weaver! Try thinking logically.

Can they possible be so stupid as to think the cost of manufacturing bases for things like 410 pump shotguns is fine, but there is not enough demand for bases for the Mosin? The mosin has been made in the tens of millions. Some estimate that MN has been made close to 100,000,000 and certainly at least 72 millon have been made.

Use the link and let see if we can bury Weaver in requests for this mount. I have used the Weaver side mounts many times in my 46 years of gunsmithing and they are quite good.
If a lot of folks write to them they probably will start making them.

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szihn
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: szihn]
      #269284 - 16/08/15 02:42 AM

Hello to all you Mosin lovers and owners
Here is the link for contacting Weaver.
http://www.weaveroptics.com/general/contact_us.aspx

As you all probably know, the Mosin Nagant is the most manufactured Bolt action in the history of firearms and it’s in 2nd place to only the AK47 and its variants as the most manufactured firearm of all time.
And weaver doesn’t make a side mount for it.
The do make side mounts for the Arasaka, the SMLE, the 1917 Enfield, the Cooley M60, the Springfield 1903, The Krag, the Italian Carcano, The 98 Mauser, the Remington M-10 and even for the Winchester M-42 410 pump shotgun.
They seem to believe all these mounts have a demand, and the fact that they still make them proves they are right.

But they don’t make one for the Mosin Nagant?

The Mosin Nagant has been made in numbers so large that we can’t even know how many have been made. At least 71,000,000 and some estimate as many as 100,000,000. But Weaver thinks there is no demand.
COME ON WEAVER!!!! THINK!!!!

So what I am asking all the readers of this thread to do is to use the link and compose a short note to Weaver asking for a side mount for the Mosin Nagants. Hex and Round receivers both!

They may make them if enough of us ask, and point out how big this boat is that they are missing.

Edited by szihn (16/08/15 02:45 AM)

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FinnCollector
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: szihn]
      #269304 - 16/08/15 01:19 PM

Why not just buy a Rock Solid or replica PE or PU mount?

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szihn
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: FinnCollector]
      #269305 - 16/08/15 01:57 PM

The Weaver system requires the base to be installed and after that the rings and scope can be removed leaving the rifle usable with iron sights. The PE and PU do the same thing, but the Weaver also has the advantage of being usable with any 1" diameter scope.
It is a very clean and low profile installation that leaves the rifle "looking right" with either the scope or the irons, and sets the scope in a good position to use without needing a neck like a giraffe. I have modified a few in the last 3 years to work, but it's a bit of a pain, and it sure would be nice if Weaver would just make the base for the Mosin Nagants and save us all the headaches.
The system is very good.

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Deutsche_Vortrekker
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Iowa_303s]
      #269429 - 19/08/15 10:50 PM

Quote:

Very nice wood.
Really like the the shape of the cheekpiece.





Was able to obtain a very nice M28-30 barreled action : with one issue . The rifling was excellent but someone had fired a round with snow in the barrel that left a ring bulge inside the barrel about 1-1/2 from the muzzle . Accuracy was unusable . I cut a couple inches off the barrel re milled the end of the barrel for the Finnish M28-30 front sight and silver soldered in place .A quick test firing revealed most excellent accuracy restored actually using an old M39 stock I had as the new stock has not been bedded yet .The original Finnish 2 stage M28/30 trigger is excellent plus ! Will reblue the end of the barrel . Bolt was heliarc welded with a classic Finnish style bolt handle .As this will be used for local Biathlon ski events I may use Finnish M27 sling swivels or something similar .Next will be glass pillar bedding of the stock



Edited by Deutsche_Vortrekker (20/08/15 03:01 AM)

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Deutsche_Vortrekker
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Deutsche_Vortrekker]
      #269588 - 24/08/15 10:29 PM



Finished bedding the stock on the M28-30 Biathlon rifle.Here it is next to my 1959 Sako Forester 308 w/Ajack scope .As the M28-30 will be used for skiing I will probably use Finnish M27 sling swivels for the rear and mount either M27 type or a small 6.5x54R Vostok style attachment on the left front of the stock .I will probably make a short 17mm rail to fit an extra Sako TRG lever scope mount to it



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9.3x57
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Deutsche_Vortrekker]
      #269590 - 24/08/15 11:02 PM

Vortrekker, if you want some ideas for double shoulder slings, here are some; I spend my winters with various rifles on my back, skiing, and have rigged up a number of sling setups that work well. The cheekpiece might give you a little trouble in placement to avoid damage from the sling hardware/sling, so you'll have to be careful in laying that out. I made an adapter that works with a standard front stud, also.
















They work, too.









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Igorrock
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: 9.3x57]
      #269595 - 25/08/15 12:48 AM

You could see from time to time older original biathlon shoulder slings for sale here in Finland so Vortrekker just tell me if you need one.

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Deutsche_Vortrekker
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Igorrock]
      #269597 - 25/08/15 01:01 AM

9.3x57 ; Nice rig and some nice country ! I have not made up my mind exactly which sling rig I want to use yet ; as this is meant to be a "classic Biathlon rig" I want to keep it as close to something that would have been used in the 1930-1960 era .I do have an old Larsen (single)Biathlon sling .
Igorrock ; Great idea ! I just might take you up on that : Kiitos !

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lancaster
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Deutsche_Vortrekker]
      #271676 - 14/10/15 07:00 AM

was invited to an elk hunt in Finnland last weekend and in some sense my way with the mosin in 9,3x53R was coming to the end on saturday.
I had the special luck that my friend organized it for me that I get the best deerstand beside the main game pass.
this was on a cutting made for a power line , a natural firing line with stands every 100 - 200 meters.
they try to find elks with the dogs and drive it against this line.




group of finnish white tails wish to cross the cutting but were mistrustful





the elk pass

just two hours after the driven startet an cow elk coming directly to my stand. first shot with the 9,3 was maybe a little bit low because the elk only looked surprised. my friend have shoot 87 elks in his hunting career and he thought I had missed but in fact in was impossible to miss the elk on 25 meter and shoot a man on the toilet instead.
anyway the elk change the direction and go across my position. my second shot got a strong reaction and a quick third shoot let it fall where it stand.

it was not realy a challenge for the 9,3 the common hunting rifle there is some kind of Sako or Tikka in 308 Win and this had working similar but this was my first Elk and it ends very well. the work of so many years realy got an ending than.









the dog came just moments after the elk fall and in his mind he was very pleased with his work, no doubt he had the opinion the elk dying because he barks so fine.



maybe 30 minutes after I shoot the elk it was in the butchery of the hunting club because its for the meat that they hunt.

my first bullet was found in the left shoulder again under the skin. I think the bullet was a little bit to low and miss the vital organs this way. the other two shoots were maybe 7-8 cm higher but none the less it shows again how hard the elk can be showing no reaction with a bullet through the chest. probably I take the wrong aiming point when shooting from above first.

my friend told me an interesting story about such a bullet under the skin. when he shoot an elk once another hunter told him he had seen the point where the bullet was found later stretching out maybe 20 cm.
so he assume the mystery of so many bullet find under the skin on the opposite side is the skin just hold the bullet.

















in four driven this weekend there it was the only elk shoot and it runs just the way to me



thank saint hubertus

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
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bringing civilisation to the barbarians

Edited by lancaster (14/10/15 07:02 AM)

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Bokmal
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: lancaster]
      #271680 - 14/10/15 10:59 AM

Sincere congratulations! A worthy finale to a 5 year long project!

Time to dig out the recipies

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Igorrock
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Bokmal]
      #271710 - 15/10/15 04:48 AM

Waidmannsheil !! By the way, where in Finland you shot this elk ?

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lancaster
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Bokmal]
      #271711 - 15/10/15 04:50 AM

my handload was a close copy of the Sako factory load, original Sako case and softpoint bullet with 51 grains N 140 making 710 m/sec.




like similar twins: Sako factory round over my handload
the bullet found in the left shoulder with an unfired bullet and one of the cases




the bullet from the elk weighs now 208,5 grains of the original 256 grains and thats are a little bit over 81% leftover.

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lancaster
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Igorrock]
      #271712 - 15/10/15 04:56 AM

not far away of you, I think its Ruotsinkylä

but sorry, it was a stiff programme with not time for anything else.

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Igorrock
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: lancaster]
      #271715 - 15/10/15 05:40 AM

Quote:

sorry, it was a stiff programme with not time for anything else.

Yes, I understand very well; my own hunting trips are similar with quite busy timetable...

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fuhrmann
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: lancaster]
      #271732 - 15/10/15 06:04 PM

Lancaster,
this is fantastic news! Waidmannsheil!
fuhrmann

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lancaster
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: fuhrmann]
      #271743 - 16/10/15 05:12 AM

Waidmannsdank

I got a pic with bullets found under the skin/opposite side:



"several bullets found in moose =

No. 1 from me 308 win. (7,62 mm.) now 16½ mm. Nosler Patition. 11,6 g./180 gr. from a big bull Moos 5 years old as in the photo. with No. 2 in the background. I shot three bulls here in 3 hours.

No. 2. 6,5x55 Nosler Patition. 10,1 g./156 gr.

No. 3. Norma Oryx, cal. 3006. 11,6 g./180 gr.

No. 4. 6,5x55, Norma Alaska, 10,1 g./ 156 gr.

No. 5 – 6. 5,6 x ? From a deer in Scotland, used by Italian hunter. I had to shoot it done."




its an interesting problem and I wonder if its possible to catch a bullet under "laboratory conditions" with fresh skin( maybe fresh shooting wild boar) behind a soap block

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

Edited by lancaster (16/10/15 05:13 AM)

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Deutsche_Vortrekker
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Igorrock]
      #271972 - 23/10/15 03:11 AM

Quote:

You could see from time to time older original biathlon shoulder slings for sale here in Finland so Vortrekker just tell me if you need one.

I am in the process of installing a Tikka/ Anschutz syle rail on the 1937 Sako .Recently finished checkering and installing a checkered steel grip cap on the 1943 Sako .It is in use right now during hunting season
[image]http://[/image]

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Igorrock
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Deutsche_Vortrekker]
      #272189 - 26/10/15 05:30 PM

In my eyes pistol grips checkering looks good with correct layout. But those over runs tells me too that you have to practise some more....

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Deutsche_Vortrekker
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Igorrock]
      #272197 - 26/10/15 11:22 PM

Quote:

In my eyes pistol grips checkering looks good with correct layout. But those over runs tells me too that you have to practise some more....

Yes Igorrock ,I have since cleaned up the edges !I took these pictures soon after completion. I tried to keep closely to the old Sako pattern .Checkering is always a chore for me =I do not do it very often and I usually have a headache the next day from eye strain from looking so closely at a very long period of time .I would much rather be shooting the rifle in the field ,but checkering is important part of the final product

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ricksrifles2843
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: lancaster]
      #273747 - 21/11/15 08:42 PM

Hello to all, my name is Rick, and I am a 21-year-old kid living in Fort Worth Texas, aspiring to become a gunsmith! My absolute favorite rifle is the Mosin-Nagant, I just love it! The simplicity of the design and yet, it's elegance. I am very curious, as to how some of these Mosins pictured in this thread, have double set triggers.
Although I am 21, I have found a great appreciation for old-school sporting arms, such as pre-war Mausers, Lee-Speeds, Griffin & Howe sporters, and yes, the Mosin-Nagant. I want to build arms with the grace and detail they had in the good old days. I'm just very interested as to how a double set trigger functions in a Mosin-Nagant! If someone had the ability to upload a picture of the trigger system itself or give a very detailed description as to how it works in this particular rifle, it would be very much appreciated! I may even try to incorporate it in my current build: Converting a Mosin to a classy 45-70!!
Thank you, fellow artisans!!

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szihn
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: ricksrifles2843]
      #273754 - 22/11/15 02:05 AM

Rick, I am sure a double set could be made, but it will have to be 100% hand made and will take you some time. The way a Mosin works, the basic principals of the double set triggers from 1920s Mauser sporters could be used I am sure, but the scale will have to change to fit. Also I would recommend setting the rear stretcher and the front trigger fairly close together. Another option would be a single set made in the way CZ does theirs, where you would have to push forward to set.

I am almost finished with this one. I am thinking about the options of carving the stock, or checkering it. (maybe both, with a carved border and checkering inside.
I also am going to engrave it on the sides of the magazine and some coverage on the receiver, but I have to get the time between the "paying projects"

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DarylS
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: szihn]
      #273757 - 22/11/15 03:43 AM

Looks like a REALLY nice hunting rifle, Steve.

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Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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szihn
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: DarylS]
      #273762 - 22/11/15 06:25 AM

Thanks Daryl.
I think it will be for someone that likes the classic old style rifles.
It's got a new barrel and stock or course. It shoot VERY well.
I left it in the original 7.62X54R. I can't see anything wrong with the old caliber. It has weights to use between 150 grains up to about 200 grains so it should be fine for open country antelope or moose in the woods, and I made a 2 blade iron sight that is zeroed at 150 and 300 meters.

High quality bullets are available from most makers. I bet you can get 7.62X54R ammo in about any country that firearms are allowed to the people.

I polished the action and with the long bolt handle its easy to work from the shoulder.

For an all-around hunting rifle I think it will serve very well.

Edited by szihn (22/11/15 06:26 AM)

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lancaster
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: szihn]
      #275815 - 30/12/15 06:27 PM

https://www.gunsamerica.com/blog/build-m..._BlogDigest_152
























--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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FinnCollector
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: lancaster]
      #275823 - 30/12/15 09:14 PM

What an idiot.

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Igorrock
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: FinnCollector]
      #275850 - 31/12/15 05:59 AM

Quote:

The rifle you see here that I converted is a hexagonal receiver type that has Century Arms import marks on both the barrel and receiver. It is a nice historical gun, but the collectible value of the gun was sucked out long ago, and it is ripe for converting. Not that the changes I made are not reversible. On this particular gun I had to hammer off the barrel bands, but if I had used one of my guns that had the clip type barrel bands I would be able to return the rifle to standard configuration very easily.


Quote:

What an idiot.


?

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lancaster
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Igorrock]
      #275851 - 31/12/15 06:07 AM

because he butcher a collectible military rifle

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: lancaster]
      #275859 - 31/12/15 08:15 AM

In all their military splendor, Mosin Nagents are $189.99 here in PG - look brand new completely packed throughout in cosmoline - appear to have perfect bores on the ones cleaned out.

I have been able to resist buying one, so far.
The mil-spec ammo is quite cheap, but they are even longer than my m76 Winchester, don't hold as many rounds and are not as accurate, either. LOL

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"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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FinnCollector
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: lancaster]
      #275866 - 31/12/15 09:43 AM

Because it is a Finnish M91, not very common in the USA. He destroyed the barrel bands and the stock, which are still valuable. The author does not even understand how the safety works!

I would have liked to have had that kiväärin tukki.

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9.3x57
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: FinnCollector]
      #275871 - 31/12/15 11:00 AM

I had one of those Finn 91's years ago. Old Ciro DeGennaro sold them for 90 bucks. Mine was mint.

Look at the bright side; for every gun molested beyond repair, that just increases the value of yours. As for me I don't care a lick anyhow, since I'm not going to retire on Mosin Nagants, or any other milsurp, either.

If I was, tho, I'd be encouraging everybody else to chop and hack theirs to pieces.



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szihn
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: 9.3x57]
      #275877 - 31/12/15 04:46 PM

There are several million M/Ns out there that are in such poor shape and have bores like sewer pipes that I doubt we'll run out of actions to customize anytime soon.

The Mosin Nagant is the most manufactured bolt action in the history of firearms. I have read numbers from 87,000,000 to 108,000,000. That's more then all the Mausers ever made.

Remington has made about 4 millon M-700 so far. So the M-700 is WAY more scarce then a Mosin Nagant. Yet no one thinks a smith is an idiot for customizing a Reminton 700. So if Remington can make a mear 83,000,000 more M700s they will then equal the "scarce" Mosin Nagants
You know............in 500 years they will be rare too.....Oh MY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

To take a $50-$60 M/N and turn it into a very nice sporter worth several hundred dollars and in some cases over $1000 is a good thing to do, not a bad thing to do.

I'd agree it's best to leave 100% original Military rifles that are in 85% or better condition alone, but those that are in about 15% condition are close to worthless and I doubt they are going to gain much value. Those that worship things might be better off to warship VW Bugs or an 8 track recorders.

Edited by szihn (31/12/15 04:50 PM)

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Bokmal
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: szihn]
      #275880 - 31/12/15 08:24 PM

First, it was his rifle and he was free to do what he pleases with it. We'll have to respect that.

BUT, he is also posing as a wannabe gun expert showing off his knowledge and taste in his blog. I find that "knowledge" severly lacking. He clearly doesn't know what he has, thinks US import marks destroys collecting value, counter threaded screws are too complicated for him to figure out etc etc... He is setting himself up for derision from all but his fellow uneducated noobs.

We are not easily affronted purists here, this whole thread that Lancaster started many years ago is about building rifles based on the ubiquitous Mosin-Nagant action. Like szihn wrote, close to a hundred million where made. But supposing that all Mosins are alike in features and therefore value is either uninformed, or bluntly put, stupid. In this case taking a pre 1988 Remington Custom Gun Shop built 700 and tacticooling it with a hack saw, cheap bolt ons and auto spray paint would be a better comparison.

From the pics in the builders blog we can see that he has a rifle with very early Konovalov rear sight (I'm on my mobile so I can't see 100% if there are markings on the right side, and if there are strike thrus), he has an early 1900 configuration stock with the early russian front bands (threaded the wrong way) and finnish swivels. Last time I helped an US collector find a stock like this it cost 150 € plus freight to the US. The blogger happily destroys this because he could not figure out the barrel band screws! There are only 2 ways the screws can turn, for chrissake!

I can't make out the markings on the barrel shank so that part of this rifles history is unreadable to me otherwise than that it was made pre WWI and come into Finnish hands pre 1928. I would not be surprised if he could have got at least a used Rem 700 by selling this Finnish Mosin to an US collector.

So no, we are not worshipping a defiled M-N rifle, we are (rightfully in my mind) merrily heckling an idiot that poses as an expert.

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Bokmal]
      #275882 - 31/12/15 09:49 PM

Exactly, Bokmal! The SA proof is visible on the barrel shank, but that is about all I can see from those photos.

As for 9.3x57 & szihn's comments...would you think about doing the same modifications to a pre-WW1 DWM Mauser?

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9.3x57
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: FinnCollector]
      #275884 - 01/01/16 02:03 AM

Quote:

Exactly, Bokmal! The SA proof is visible on the barrel shank, but that is about all I can see from those photos.

As for 9.3x57 & szihn's comments...would you think about doing the same modifications to a pre-WW1 DWM Mauser?



Look, what I do with a rifle is irrelevant to the discussion, but in answer, I don't give a cat's rat about the gun itself if I have a project I want to make of it. Realistically, if I could make an easy sale and get rid of the "Holy Grail" and bring in more than the cost of a gun or project I wanted to fund, I'd do that, but selling some of this "junk" for top dollar is not as easy as some suggest. And the difference between the value of the unmolested and the molested is...who cares? Having said that, yeah, if I saw a neat action on a stock condition Mauser of whatever date of birth and wanted Szihn to make me up a nice neat wholly-transformed mountain rifle, I would ship it to him postehaste!

And I really couldn't care less, I mean, any less, what some other guy does with his. EXCEPT if I was a collector. ESPECIALLY if I was a collector {and once upon a time I was, of M/N's, and had quite a number of them, some rare, some not-so}. Then I would care and more than that, I would keep on hand a fresh stock of brand spanking new hacksaw blades to hand out at every gun show I visited! As I said, if you are a collector, you should rejoice every single time you see some Bubba take an angle grinder to a model you have purchased. Bubba is your best friend!

Milsurp collectors very frequently express a conviction that large numbers of folks on the street are dying to get ahold of their preferred objects of desire, when nothing could be farther from the truth. Most people consider this stuff junk. It is hard to argue with them, overall. To say "So and so" shouldn't have done what he did because he could have gotten X amount for the thing over here in faraway land is, seriously, kind of silly. And getting that big money for those "rare" milsurps even over here at home is not as easy as the collectors seem to think. Most non-collectors have zero contacts in order to make that "killing in the market".

Honestly, I confess, I've been a mutilator of milsurps. But I have gained far more enjoyment over the years cobbling on "rare" milsurps than I ever would have had just "knowing they are sitting there in the gunsafe". But some are collectors and for them, that is great. Tenderly care away! Have at it.

I don't begrudge anybody any chopping and slashing, or preserving. To each his own. To me these issues don't rise to the level of important in any way and I sure wouldn't disparage a guy for chopping any more than I would the guy that wants to keep a pristine collection of them.

I am not going to retire on milsurps. For those that plan to, I suggest you keep them pristine, and encourage others to do just the opposite.

And let's not forget that EVERY SINGLE 27, 28 or 28/30 ever made is "rare" and thus should, buy some people's standards, not be touched whether it is in factory new or talvisota-troubled wrecked condition, as, you see, there are actually those collectors who WANT the battlehardened versions. So to them, even carving up a battered example is sacrilege.

I am pretty opinionated about many things, but when it comes to guns, I really have no opinion as to whether they are preserved or cobbled on. To each his own.

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Bokmal
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: 9.3x57]
      #275885 - 01/01/16 02:25 AM

> As I said, if you are a collector, you should rejoice every single time you see some Bubba take an angle grinder to a model you have purchased. Bubba is your best friend!

You are entitled to think like this if it pleases you, but please don't project your money centered way of thinking on all other collectors. I care about the history and potential uniqueness of a rifle much more than their commercial value. I dont begrudge you nor the bloggist your hack and slash instincts, but you'll have to admit his results would have been just as good if he'd started from just a good barreled 89 USD M/91-30

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Bokmal]
      #275891 - 01/01/16 03:00 AM

- quite an exchange - thanks.

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9.3x57
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Bokmal]
      #275894 - 01/01/16 03:26 AM

Quote:

> As I said, if you are a collector, you should rejoice every single time you see some Bubba take an angle grinder to a model you have purchased. Bubba is your best friend!

You are entitled to think like this if it pleases you, but please don't project your money centered way of thinking on all other collectors. I care about the history and potential uniqueness of a rifle much more than their commercial value. I dont begrudge you nor the bloggist your hack and slash instincts, but you'll have to admit his results would have been just as good if he'd started from just a good barreled 89 USD M/91-30



Money-centered? Hardly, and that is my point. Who cares about the monetary "value" of this stuff? I certainly do not.

Anyway, I agree with you almost 100% as to his results with a 91/30...except he may very well have paid 80 bucks for that thing in some areas. Folks just don't care about these old clunks. And he very likely would have had just as much fun using a 91/30 or a prewar hex receiver Finn-marked New England Westinghouse.

But Bokmal...wait a minute...can you possibly be implying that a 1942-built Russky barrel has the potential to match an interwar Finnish 91?

Heresy!!!



Smile. It's all in fun and games.

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Igorrock
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: DarylS]
      #275895 - 01/01/16 03:43 AM

So, what's the moral judgments of this depat; NEVER EVER bubba any weapon in original shape, is it rare or not.
By the way; I have noticed that Mosin Nagant seems to be, among hobbyist gun builders in USA, a kind of practical joke i.e. the foolest and ugliest custom rifles which I have seen in US rifle pages, are 99% built in Mosin action. That indicates me that there is too many Mosins with too low prices there...?

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Bokmal
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: 9.3x57]
      #275896 - 01/01/16 03:45 AM

Don't tell anybody or I'll be locked out from the New Years Sauna. But yes, I think the russians as a rule made good to excellent barrels. My PE (admittedly pre-war) and my 1942 PU have excellent Soviet made barrels.

I'm smiling, even if I'm still mostly sober. I'm out on an island in the Baltic, the sauna is warm (the womenfolk are there now). Food is ready and I'm chilling over a beer with a hunting buddy. The dog is chewing on the leg of a Moose calf.

Have an excellent 2016 you all, regardless if you agree with me or are smarter than that 😉

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9.3x57
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Bokmal]
      #275898 - 01/01/16 04:29 AM

Quote:

Don't tell anybody or I'll be locked out from the New Years Sauna. But yes, I think the russians as a rule made good to excellent barrels. My PE (admittedly pre-war) and my 1942 PU have excellent Soviet made barrels.

I'm smiling, even if I'm still mostly sober. I'm out on an island in the Baltic, the sauna is warm (the womenfolk are there now). Food is ready and I'm chilling over a beer with a hunting buddy. The dog is chewing on the leg of a Moose calf.

Have an excellent 2016 you all, regardless if you agree with me or are smarter than that 😉



Now THAT's THE Spirit!

Igorrock, I think the point Bokmal is making is that when you have access to 78,968,572 plain jane run of the mill meaningless repeats, there is no good reason to chop on one from a total production of something like 17,000. And that makes good sense. Can't fault that reaoning at all. I can see that for sure, but I just can't get upset at some poor slob who has a silk purse and wants desperately to make a sow's ear out of it.

Now, how many very rare Mannlicher 95's have been chopped on to make sporters in Eastern Europe! Let's take this discussion over to lancasters 95 thread and bare our knuckles over there!

I'm just kidding!!!



Godt nytår!!



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kuduae
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: 9.3x57]
      #275899 - 01/01/16 05:45 AM

Why that crying about an old, cheap and reasonably frequent Moisin - Nagant milsurp clunker, one of the most homely bolt actions ever designed? If anybody want to sink his money into such a project, well, it's his money. At the same time most of us drool on magnificent custom rifles as made by, f.i. the Dorleacs and many others, even the "Name" British gunmakers. But in each of these masterpieces of the gunmaking art you find an old action that comes either from a butchered milsurp like DWM made 1909s, Swedish M96 or even a true, rare and desirable Oberndorf Commercial Mauser. Noone seems to complain here, though you can not get a K or double flattop Mauser Action without destroying a complete Commercial Mauser rifle.

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Igorrock
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: kuduae]
      #275907 - 01/01/16 08:58 AM

Just my thoughts, kuduae.

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Bokmal
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: kuduae]
      #275915 - 01/01/16 10:52 AM

Quote:

But in each of these masterpieces of the gunmaking art you find an old action that comes either from a butchered milsurp like DWM made 1909s, Swedish M96 or even a true, rare and desirable Oberndorf Commercial Mauser



Kuduae, If I ever see the Dorleacs post about a Oberndorf Commercial based project
- calling it a one of millions made Bodenfund Nazi Mauser
- fitting it with a cheap mail order uncheckered stock
- leaving the original iron sights
- attaching a picture of Corbett, Selous, Shelby or Hemingway to get swag

I solemny swear to endlessly bitch about it in my stiff School German (Lancaster can testify to the grammatical horrors involved)!

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szihn
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Bokmal]
      #275918 - 01/01/16 11:30 AM

To reply to
"As for 9.3x57 & szihn's comments...would you think about doing the same modifications to a pre-WW1 DWM Mauser?"

The answer is YES \If the rifle was in such poor condition that it had lost 90-95 percent of any collectors value before I ever got hold of it.
the Mosin in my post was in very poor condition. If it had been a US Westinghouse or a SIG, I would still have done the same work to it because I made a nice usable rifle that may last a another 100 years from one that was on its way to the trash bin.
I wish I had before an after pics, but I think even the most die-hard collector would agree I did it good if they could have seen what I started with.

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lancaster
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: szihn]
      #275928 - 01/01/16 06:27 PM

what a turmoil




well, its all about being able to calculate and knowledge is power. if having a rare and for this reason valuable military rifle I sell it for making maximum profit to the one who is paying the most.

for this I need knowledge before to calculate the value of the piece. used guns are a special branch of the antiques market but in the end its the same like new guns. a rifle coming from the house of a best gun maker for maybe 15000$ is only worth this because people are willing to pay this price.

I dont wish to change my own mosin rifle against anything of this because I HAVE work on this for years of my lifetime and nobody can pay me for this!

some rare mosin going today for more then 1000$ and it doesn't matter they are made in millions before or not. it will be wise to look what you have.
so if looking for a maximum profit before I get parts as cheap as possible for a project. for my Vergueiro sporter I bought a mismatched deaktivated rifle for 50 euro that nobody else want in an auction. dont need the drilled and welded barrel only want the action where all parts are polished by my hands than so dont care about the rest: mismatched, worn or rusty.
no licence fee for a rifle I buy to destroy it and than licence fee again for the new rifle when its build.

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FinnCollector
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: szihn]
      #276031 - 03/01/16 07:54 PM

Quote:

To reply to
"As for 9.3x57 & szihn's comments...would you think about doing the same modifications to a pre-WW1 DWM Mauser?"

The answer is YES \If the rifle was in such poor condition that it had lost 90-95 percent of any collectors value before I ever got hold of it.
the Mosin in my post was in very poor condition. If it had been a US Westinghouse or a SIG, I would still have done the same work to it because I made a nice usable rifle that may last a another 100 years from one that was on its way to the trash bin.
I wish I had before an after pics, but I think even the most die-hard collector would agree I did it good if they could have seen what I started with.



I did the same. My .50 Alaskan was built off of a junk 1928 Tula ex-dragoon rifle that had a barrel like a sewer pipe, completely pitted. It came from a container of rifles that had come out of Romania, originally sent to Gheorghiu-Dej after WWII to be re-arsenaled & put in service, but abandoned and put in storage when they received the tooling to build the M44. I paid $100 USD for 3 rifles ($33/ea), each missing small items like handguards, barrel bands, or sight hoods. If it was in the shape of the author's rifle, I never would have considered it.

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lancaster
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: FinnCollector]
      #284937 - 07/07/16 08:02 PM

love thos old pics from africa

rifles captured by italian troops during the Second Italo-Ethiopian War - Mosin rifles






probably sold by surplusdealer after the great war to ethiopa

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lancaster
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: lancaster]
      #289613 - 30/10/16 07:00 PM

more Mannlicher Schönauer look alike Mosin rifles from hungary

https://vadaszapro.net/reszletek/263824/feg-gv-762x54r







and https://vadaszapro.net/reszletek/266648/feg-762x54r







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ricksrifles2843
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: lancaster]
      #293837 - 15/01/17 06:47 AM

My ColorCase 45-70 Mosin Receiver
Whole Receiver

(Disclaimer: I'm new to forums so let me know if something doesn't work )

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FinnCollector
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: ricksrifles2843]
      #293853 - 15/01/17 10:19 AM

So, you changed from round receiver to hex? Is this one a Ishevsk?

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lancaster
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: FinnCollector]
      #293886 - 16/01/17 03:07 AM

looking fine
I had the feeling the mosin steel is a little bit different than maybe the steel you have with a mauser 98. was seeing it react different on rust blueing than mauser parts.

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Grenadier
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: lancaster]
      #299960 - 03/05/17 06:05 AM

Quote:

more Mannlicher Schönauer look alike Mosin rifles from hungary

https://vadaszapro.net/reszletek/263824/feg-gv-762x54r









I really like that look!

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Grenadier
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Grenadier]
      #299964 - 03/05/17 08:23 AM

Info is in the Big Bore Rifles section and that is where I will be posting load and performance data but I should have posted pictures
of this rifle here, too.


Rebarrelled to .405 Grenadier, a .411 wildcat based on the 7.62x54R case. The cartridges are loaded with, clockwise from left:
400gr Woodleigh, 350gr Swift A-Frame, 300gr Barnes TSX, a 7.62x54R cartridge for comparrison, and 350gr Hawk.






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FinnCollector
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Grenadier]
      #299984 - 03/05/17 04:02 PM

What's the muzzle velocity with the 300gr Barnes?

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Grenadier
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: FinnCollector]
      #300000 - 03/05/17 10:43 PM

These are some preliminary loads:

.405 Grenadier, Mosin Nagant, McGowen 25" barrel
================================================================
Hornady 300gr SP, 54.7gr AR-Comp, 2.67" COAL -- 2,201 fps / 3228 ft lb
================================================================
Barnes 300gr TSX, 53.1gr AR-Comp, 2.9" COAL -- 2,131 fps / 3026 ft lbs
Barnes 300gr TSX, 54.7gr AR-Comp, 2.9" COAL -- 2,202 fps / 3231 ft lbs
================================================================
Hawk 350gr RN, 51.8gr AR-Comp, 2.9" COAL -- 1,966 fps / 3004 ft lbs
Hawk 350gr RN, 53.8gr AR-Comp, 2.9" COAL -- 2,044 fps / 3247 ft lbs
================================================================
Woodleigh 400gr RN, 46.5gr AR-Comp, 2.8" COAL -- 1,805 fps / 2894 ft lbs
Woodleigh 400gr RN, 47.8gr AR-Comp, 2.8" COAL -- 1,868 fps / 3100 ft lbs
Woodleigh 400gr RN, 49.2gr AR-Comp, 2.8" COAL -- 1,938 fps / 3336 ft lbs
================================================================

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FinnCollector
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Grenadier]
      #300020 - 04/05/17 03:11 AM

Very similar to .405 Winchester or .444 Marlin then. That's enough!

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lancaster
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: FinnCollector]
      #306253 - 12/10/17 02:23 AM

a FEG /Budapest Mosin sporter in 7,62x54R,SN 64-287
three feet claw mount bases and shortended magazine, double set trigger and safety on the grip
https://www.hermann-historica.de/de/repe...;currentpos=108







see more pics of the russian pre war Kochetova 8,2mm hunting rifle - NK -8,2 - with some informations: the rifle was designed by a D.M. Kochetov in the Tula arms factory in 1938 and was in production from 1939 to 1941 ( start of the war and end of all civil production), have a 3 rounds magazin











http://www.museum-arms.ru/collections/detail.php?ELEMENT_ID=5661

so this thing have a name now

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Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
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lancaster
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: lancaster]
      #317420 - 22/06/18 02:15 AM

is my thread from the stoneage still alive?

this pice from the finnish winter war 39/40 against the commies show an an old gentleman with a Mosin hunting rifle



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Bokmal
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: lancaster]
      #317425 - 22/06/18 05:33 AM

Hello Lancaster, the thread is alive as long as we old mosinistas can still find the keyboard!

Your picture raises a few questions, the stock looks like the post war stocks from TAP or Sako. The fixed rear sight also looks a lot like the TAP, whereas Sako favored a folding blade or the elusive drum rear sight. What does the original caption say?

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lancaster
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Bokmal]
      #317427 - 22/06/18 05:51 AM

hello Bokmal

on solistice day let me first wishing you a great saint johns eve 2018!Hauska Juhannusta!

falls this years in the night from saturday to sunday, I hope you have enough to drink







this picture was in a lot of different winter war pics and get my attention immediately. possible it was wrong in this group!

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Bokmal
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: lancaster]
      #317428 - 22/06/18 06:22 AM

Kiitos, my friend!

On Solstice I will dance around the fire with blond maidens wielding Mosins as always. Or at least claim I did, as always...

Sako started making civilian sporters on the Mosin action as early as 1942, I think Deutsche Vortrekker posted pics of these earlier. The early Sako sporter stock had a very longish fore grip, the later post war models had the Schnabel like feature in the pic. That is why I was curious.

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9.3x57
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Bokmal]
      #317429 - 22/06/18 09:47 AM


Lanc: What is the purpose of that blob of wood on the forestock?

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Maxim
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: 9.3x57]
      #317430 - 22/06/18 11:30 AM

In the late 70's my uncle had gone to a auction at a farm. He went to the car to bring what he got at the auction for $3. It was a Mosin Nagant in the worst condition you ever saw. It had been used as a pipe to hold the barn door shut and the barrel horribly rusted for the first 10". I cut the barrel off to legal length here in the colonies. The rifling was nearly gone but I cleaned it up and shot it some, but no glory in the accuracy. Sold about 20 years ago. The moral of the story is a old Mosin can only go upward after being a barn door holder. I am in awe what can be done with a Mosin.

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lancaster
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: lancaster]
      #317445 - 22/06/18 10:43 PM

"Lanc: What is the purpose of that blob of wood on the forestock?"

I believe you meaning this one?



this is realy strange! the only explanation I have is this was made for reason - maybe for laying the rifle on a special place on a dog sledge or similar. if it fits ecaxly the "blob" and the stock on the other end probably hold the rifle in place so it can't move back and forth but can be easy taken when in need on a sledge patrol.

the only idea I have

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
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Edited by lancaster (22/06/18 10:43 PM)

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9.3x57
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: lancaster]
      #317446 - 22/06/18 10:58 PM

Yes, that's the blob!

Your explanation seems as logical as anything else. It appear it might have a hole drilled thru it? If so I wonder if a tie-down of some sort might have been used.

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: 9.3x57]
      #317451 - 23/06/18 01:33 AM

Tie-down, or spring clamp, may due to the picture angles and distance?

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Igorrock
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: DarylS]
      #317452 - 23/06/18 02:21 AM

Maybe this page tells something: http://www.museum-arms.ru/collections/detail.php?ELEMENT_ID=5661

Quote:

What is the purpose of that blob of wood on the forestock?


Maybe something similar like this tibetan rifle:

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lancaster
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Igorrock]
      #317453 - 23/06/18 04:20 AM

the point is this "blob" is rounded and not a hook like the mediavel Arcebuse = Hakenbüchse = hook rifle




had to deal with the recoil

the MPi 40 had this hook for the same reason, btw



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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: lancaster]
      #317456 - 23/06/18 04:58 AM

I don't think so, lanc.

Too rounded.

A conundrum!!

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: 9.3x57]
      #317457 - 23/06/18 05:08 AM

thats what I am saying, to round to serve as a hook in this way

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: lancaster]
      #317458 - 23/06/18 05:38 AM

Quote:

thats what I am saying, to round to serve as a hook in this way



Righto!!

Sorry for the confusion.

It is an odd one, isn't it?

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Igorrock]
      #317459 - 23/06/18 05:39 AM

Quote:

Maybe this page tells something: http://www.museum-arms.ru/collections/detail.php?ELEMENT_ID=5661

Quote:

What is the purpose of that blob of wood on the forestock?


Maybe something similar like this tibetan rifle:





Could be. Looks like a hole is there for a pivot pin of some sort.

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: 9.3x57]
      #317460 - 23/06/18 06:40 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Maybe this page tells something: http://www.museum-arms.ru/collections/detail.php?ELEMENT_ID=5661

Quote:

What is the purpose of that blob of wood on the forestock?


Maybe something similar like this tibetan rifle:





Could be. Looks like a hole is there for a pivot pin of some sort.


Such two – pronged "bipods" were apparently a common rifle attachments in central Asia, Siberia, Mongolia , Tibet. I have quite often seen such appendices in old pictures of central Asian expeditions. Here is the only photo I found just now: An east-Tibetan "bandit chief" in 1936.

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: 9.3x57]
      #318789 - 05/08/18 05:00 AM

coming back here is like going back to the future ...


Norsk send me a pm for 9,3x53R reloading data because he bought a Sako Mosin in 9,3 in norway
send me this pics and I safe it





looks interesting, would like to see more of this

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: lancaster]
      #320012 - 24/09/18 02:28 AM

another FEG/Budapest made MS look alike Mosin sporter in 7,62x54R
https://vadaszapro.net/reszletek/283896/feg-gv-762x54r-golyos-vadaszpuska











and another one https://vadaszapro.net/reszletek/278532/feg-gv-762x54r-golyos-vadaszfegyver







and another one https://vadaszapro.net/reszletek/287659/feg-gv--762x54r-golyos-puska-762*45r









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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: lancaster]
      #320013 - 24/09/18 03:52 AM

This first one is a real gem !

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Igorrock]
      #320014 - 24/09/18 04:18 AM

371 euro, not expensive for such a rifle

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: lancaster]
      #323159 - 09/01/19 10:34 PM

was on finnish websites, lots of mosin and winchester 95 around

8,2x53R





https://www.nettiaseet.fi/myydaan/luvanv...kymenlaakso/553






space age 450 marlin - mosin





https://www.nettiaseet.fi/myydaan/luvanv...-pohjanmaa/7475

winchester 8,2x53R






https://www.nettiaseet.fi/myydaan/luvanv...is-karjala/6450

tokarev sporter 8,2x53R







https://www.nettiaseet.fi/myydaan/luvanv...eski-suomi/5921

winchester 7,62x53r


https://www.nettiaseet.fi/myydaan/luvanv...kanta-hame/4690


tokarew 8,2x53r


https://www.nettiaseet.fi/myydaan/luvanv...kanta-hame/4235



6,3x33 (? - maybe a 6,3x53R)




https://www.nettiaseet.fi/myydaan/luvanv...-pohjanmaa/4010

simson double rifle ( build from a double gun) 458x54R









https://www.nettiaseet.fi/myydaan/luvanv...-pohjanmaa/3993



winchester 9,3x53R




https://www.nettiaseet.fi/myydaan/luvanv...-satakunta/3307

6,3x53R


https://www.nettiaseet.fi/myydaan/luvanv...-pohjanmaa/3078



winchester 416x56r (?- 416x53R or a 416 with using the 8x56R case)





https://www.nettiaseet.fi/myydaan/luvanv...-satakunta/1609

winchester 8,2x53R



https://www.forssanasejaretkeily.fi/tuote/winchester-1895-8-2x53r/1503580358038/

45 70


https://www.tva-asepaja.fi/aseet


8,2x53R



https://www.tva-asepaja.fi/aseet

sako mosin 6,3x53R



http://www.lahdeniemi.fi/Sivut/kayt-kiv.htm


winchester 7,62x54R


http://www.lahdeniemi.fi/Sivut/kayt-kiv.htm

9,3x53R



http://www.lahdeniemi.fi/Sivut/kayt-kiv.htm


winchester 9,3x53R



http://www.lahdeniemi.fi/Sivut/kayt-kiv.htm

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9.3x57
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: lancaster]
      #323172 - 10/01/19 01:47 PM

Plenty of classics and oddballs there.

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: 9.3x57]
      #323176 - 10/01/19 05:20 PM

winchester 95 everywhere and very cheap, make a holiday trip to finland and get one

sure igorrrock will help
if you buy two and take them home for selling one you get the price of you tickects back?

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: lancaster]
      #323189 - 11/01/19 05:51 AM

The only detail which makes little pondering is the truth that their magazine fits only for x53R shells.

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Igorrock]
      #352039 - 06/04/21 02:36 AM

I have converted Mosin Nagant rifles to:
223
45/70
30-30
7mmRM
300WM
25 Krag Ackley

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Clarkm]
      #352040 - 06/04/21 03:33 AM

pics?

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: lancaster]
      #352045 - 06/04/21 10:26 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZp6R2sim7k

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Clarkm]
      #352576 - 22/04/21 02:10 AM

I have ordered the chamber and sizing die reamer from Mason for the 6.5x54r vostok.

The guy I hunt with has ordered the chamber and sizing die reamer from Mason for the 270x54r.

I predict deer with be killed with both in October 2021.

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lancaster
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Clarkm]
      #352578 - 22/04/21 04:05 AM

thats very interesting, never heard someone made a new rifle for this forgotten round. must be something like a rimmed 6,5x55 swedisch.

do you use a common 6,5 mm barrel blank?











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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: lancaster]
      #352581 - 22/04/21 04:24 AM

This 6,3x53R was after WWII quite usual caliber here in Finland but I have seen too 6,5x53R. It´s very rare but it seems that CH4D makes reloading dies for it.

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Igorrock]
      #354273 - 12/06/21 05:47 AM

a 7x53R rifle that was made by using a tula carbine https://www.dorotheum.com/de/l/7248076/#
hard to find outside of finland




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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: lancaster]
      #354339 - 14/06/21 05:33 PM

Would be interesting to know if that is a Finnish made 7x53R restocked in Germany or if some intrepid continental gunsmith wanted a change from the ubiqutous 7x57?

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Bokmal]
      #354350 - 15/06/21 05:00 AM

because its for sale in austria it could be the rifle got a new stock in Ferlach once.
it would have been very hard then ( would be hard also today) to find a chamber reamer for the 7x53R so I believe a finnish mosin was used here.

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: lancaster]
      #354643 - 26/06/21 05:04 AM

This rifle looks to have action with round fore bridge which is very uncommon with finnish civil Mosins. Maybe it´s a wildcat caliber from 9,3x53R Swiss.

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Igorrock]
      #354645 - 26/06/21 06:51 AM

Quote:

This rifle looks to have action with round fore bridge which is very uncommon with finnish civil Mosins. Maybe it´s a wildcat caliber from 9,3x53R Swiss.



https://waffenlager.net/ammo/7x53r.html

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: 9.3x57]
      #354656 - 26/06/21 03:35 PM

9.3x57 I have one 7x53R Finnish Mosin in my cabinet so I know that caliber quite well. It seems that you did not understand my early comment properly...

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Igorrock]
      #354660 - 26/06/21 05:41 PM

honestly kari, I did not realy notice the 9,3x53R Swiss comment before

never heard of such a wildcat, don't beieve it exist
it will be a 7x53R for sure

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Igorrock]
      #354664 - 27/06/21 12:10 AM

Quote:

9.3x57 I have one 7x53R Finnish Mosin in my cabinet so I know that caliber quite well. It seems that you did not understand my early comment properly...



I wasn't really addressing your statement per se, just adding the link for those unfamiliar w/ the caliber. I figured you of all people here would be familiar with the various Finnish rounds based on the x53R FINN case.

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: 9.3x57]
      #358661 - 28/11/21 04:49 PM

first time a russian Medved rifle in 9,3x53R is for sale outside of russia, actually in finland. heard they were exportet to bulgara but never see it.






comes with 200 cartridges for 750 euro whats not terrible expensive. would need another scope+scope mount but if you have time another project is allways welcome.



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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: lancaster]
      #363165 - 07/03/22 05:43 AM

I just added my old Mosin stock for sale in eGun: https://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=14744906



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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Igorrock]
      #376227 - 23/04/23 02:50 AM

see this rifle on a hungarian auction site, a mosin(carbine?)with an interesting safety idea if I am not wrong
https://vadaszapro.net/reszletek/341869/tula--gv--ussr









looks tlike there is a safety button on the rear end, left side of the action that turns in and blocks the firing pin

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: lancaster]
      #376328 - 26/04/23 04:15 AM

Lars; this kind of safety has been used here in Finland maybe more than a decade now. I haven´t still bought it to my next Mosin project it could be possible....

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Igorrock]
      #376329 - 26/04/23 05:20 AM

looks very simple to made

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Igorrock]
      #376332 - 26/04/23 05:34 AM

one of my son's 2 elk from last year.

Russian Mosin Nagant M91/30. Prvi 150 grain soft points.

he's also used it on several black bear.



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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: 9.3x57]
      #376347 - 26/04/23 02:39 PM

the size of the rifle speaks how massive the elk was. winter coat added some but in general its a little bit more than a whitetail.

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: lancaster]
      #376355 - 26/04/23 10:29 PM

Quote:

the size of the rifle speaks how massive the elk was. winter coat added some but in general its a little bit more than a whitetail.



yes indeed. they run much bigger than our WT's.

shot was taken standing offhand @ ~80m, too. pretty decent shooting. he has other modern rifles but has really taken a shine to the crude ancient ole mosin! it's kinda like the "muzzle loader of the bolt action world".

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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: 9.3x57]
      #376361 - 27/04/23 04:42 AM

in our pampered age shooting game with iron sights over 80 meter or even 80 yards is a good achievement.

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