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kuduae
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Reged: 13/01/10
Posts: 1756
Loc: middle of Germany
Cocking-piece aperture sights
      #151111 - 19/01/10 08:19 AM

A discussion of the 9.5x57 M-S cartridge on the Mannlicher forum wandered off into questions on cocking piece aperture sights. Public demand by Sarg and xausa caused me to open this thread and show photos of some such sights. Such aperture sights mounted on a bolt-action's cocking piece were quite popular in the pre-scope days.
First is the "Rigby Special Aperture Sight" mounted on a 9.3x62. It may be the most classic of such sights, even copied again today, selling for about 500.- Euro in Germany. I bought mine for much less when the Rigby/Roberts shop was still in Covent Garden. IMHO it is, technically, the least desirable of the sights I have. It is mounted into a dovetail cut into the rear end of a long commercial Mauser cocking piece, windage adjustable only by hammer and punch. Elevation is controlled by spring friction on the vertical stem. The adjusting wheel is fastened by a TINY screw. Rigby's used to engrave distance marks on the rim of the wheel, near impossible to see and to adjust properly.

http://i1018.photobucket.com/albums/af303/kuduae/2010_01180008.jpg



Next is the Lyman No.1 on a 1899 vintage Mannlicher 6.5x53R by G.Gibbs of Bristol. It too is mounted in a dovetailed regular firingpin nut, the firingpin shortened to clear. Again windage adjustment is nil. Up-down movement is controlled by the "nut" on the stem. As only friction keeps this from being moved, Gibbs once blocked the stem with a tiny set screw after sighting in. I did never need any readjustment, as the rifle is still dead-on with 160gr bullets at 100m, even after 110 years!

http://i1018.photobucket.com/albums/af303/kuduae/2010_01180010.jpg



This is the Parker-Hale "Sportarget", this one mounted on a G.Gibbs (again) M1903 Mannlicher-Schoenauer 6.5x54 dated 1905. It's base is brazed/silver-soldered to the M-S firing pin nut. You are looking at a coin-slotted disk on the right side of the base that provides some windage adjustment. Elevation is again controlled by the nut around the stem, fitted with a left-hand thread, so "right" is "up". Both adjustments are arrested by clicks, giving about 1"/100Yards. To me the "Sportarget" is the most versatile of the cocking-piece sights I know, even if it is a little bit more bulky than the others. Sorry, but it is out of print now for quite some time, near impossible to find without a pretty expensive rifle underneath.

http://i1018.photobucket.com/albums/af303/kuduae/2010_01180014.jpg



At gunshows or in country gunshops in Britain you may sometimes find another Parker-Hale sight, the P-H No.16. This one was usually screwed to the round receivers of early .22 target rifles. Whenever I see such a sight I buy it, as I convert them into my "Ersatz Sportargets".

http://i1018.photobucket.com/albums/af303/kuduae/2010_01180013.jpg



Several times now I have disassembled these, watch out for the tiny detent balls, springs and washers! Then I attack the base with hacksaw and files, remove lots of the metal to reshape them. I fit them to both Mannlicher or Mauser nuts, clamp them and braze them in place. Here is an example on a commercial Mauser B 9.3x62.

http://i1018.photobucket.com/albums/af303/kuduae/2010_01180012.jpg



http://i1018.photobucket.com/albums/af303/kuduae/2010_01180011.jpg



My Ersatz Sportargets may not be beautiful, being even wider than the original. And, you have to turn the former elevation, now windage knob left to make the rifle shoot right. But, IMHO they are better than having no Sportarget at all.


Edited by CptCurl to display photos

--------------------
German foresters: We like sustainability! For merely 300 years by 2013.

Edited by CptCurl (19/01/10 10:40 AM)


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4seventy
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Reged: 07/05/03
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Loc: Queensland Australia
Re: Cocking-piece aperture sights [Re: kuduae]
      #151117 - 19/01/10 09:38 AM

kuduae,
Very interesting post and pics!


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dons
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Reged: 18/08/07
Posts: 431
Loc: Essex
Re: Cocking-piece aperture sights [Re: kuduae]
      #151121 - 19/01/10 10:00 AM

Excellent thread. Thanks

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CptCurlAdministrator
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Reged: 01/05/04
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Re: Cocking-piece aperture sights [Re: dons]
      #151123 - 19/01/10 10:41 AM

Very interesting indeed. Thanks for posting.

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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Sarg
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Reged: 20/01/07
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Re: Cocking-piece aperture sights [Re: kuduae]
      #151163 - 19/01/10 08:44 PM

Absolutely fantastic ! I think demand it a little strong but if it works like this I will try more often .

Thank you for that !


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Buchsemann
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Reged: 12/12/08
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Loc: Wisconsin, USA
Re: Cocking-piece aperture sights [Re: Sarg]
      #151294 - 21/01/10 05:08 AM

Kuduae,

Thank you for the informative post.

Buchseman

--------------------
Happy the man, and happy he alone,
He who can call today his own:
He who, secure within, can say,
Tomorrow do thy worst, for I have lived today.

- John Dryden


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Huvius
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Reged: 04/11/07
Posts: 3517
Loc: Colorado
Re: Cocking-piece aperture sights [Re: Buchsemann]
      #153132 - 08/02/10 10:38 AM

I didn't notice this before, but Mauser offers the Rigby style sight as an option on their new '98 Magnums. Maybe one could be ordered through the US importer (?)

http://www.mauserwaffen.de/Rigby-Style-peep-sight.90.0.html?&L=1

--------------------
He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.


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JRL
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Reged: 02/02/10
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Loc: UK
Re: Cocking-piece aperture sights [Re: Huvius]
      #153135 - 08/02/10 11:43 AM

Perhaps you would like one of these.







JRL

(firm no longer in business)

Edited by NitroX (31/01/12 01:06 AM)


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mehulkamdar
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Reged: 09/01/04
Posts: 3688
Loc: State of Ill-Annoy USA.
Re: Cocking-piece aperture sights [Re: JRL]
      #153359 - 11/02/10 02:45 PM

Absolutely beautiful, and with the Rigby pedigree! Do you plan on selling sights separately, though, or will you only offer them on your rifles?

--------------------
The Ark was made by amateurs. Experts built the Titanic.

Mehul Kamdar


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ALAN_MCKENZIE
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Reged: 24/03/04
Posts: 1214
Loc: Western Australia
Re: Cocking-piece aperture sights [Re: mehulkamdar]
      #153378 - 12/02/10 12:29 AM

John Rigby London,yes I would appreciate one of those for my Rigby 303 Lee Speed.
The dovetail is there ,however the sight is missing.
Please advise price.
Regards
Alan McKenzie

--------------------
"Dogs always bark at their master"
Sir Seretse Khama.25th June 1949


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ALAN_MCKENZIE
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Re: Cocking-piece aperture sights [Re: JRL]
      #153379 - 12/02/10 12:32 AM




--------------------
"Dogs always bark at their master"
Sir Seretse Khama.25th June 1949


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Sarg
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Reged: 20/01/07
Posts: 1365
Loc: Nil
Re: Cocking-piece aperture sights [Re: ALAN_MCKENZIE]
      #153403 - 12/02/10 06:02 AM

Very nice Alan !
Could you give us a close up of the dove tail cut in the bolt nut please !
That would help if some one were to have one cut on these (I might be one of them) thank you .


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JRL
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Reged: 02/02/10
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Re: Cocking-piece aperture sights [Re: mehulkamdar]
      #153417 - 12/02/10 09:55 AM

They will be sold separately as as well as being an option on Bolt Action Rifles.

They will retail for Ģ 250.00 in the white and Ģ 300.00 blacked.

They have a spring loaded detente and instructions of how to regulate the sight to your rifle.

If the sight is being used as a replacement for a missing original, we request that you supply us with accurate measurements of the top and bottom width of your dovetail, as we have found that lots of these have been altered to fit different sights over the years.
We will then pull a sight body from the production batch before they are machined and cut a custom one to your specific requirements.

Best Wishes.


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mehulkamdar
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Reged: 09/01/04
Posts: 3688
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Re: Cocking-piece aperture sights [Re: JRL]
      #153446 - 12/02/10 03:44 PM

Thanks for the information. This may be useful for a rifle that I am planning to have built.

--------------------
The Ark was made by amateurs. Experts built the Titanic.

Mehul Kamdar


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mehulkamdar
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Reged: 09/01/04
Posts: 3688
Loc: State of Ill-Annoy USA.
Re: Cocking-piece aperture sights [Re: ALAN_MCKENZIE]
      #153447 - 12/02/10 03:45 PM

Alan,

That's a beauty, my friend!

Good hunting!

--------------------
The Ark was made by amateurs. Experts built the Titanic.

Mehul Kamdar


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kuduae
.400 member


Reged: 13/01/10
Posts: 1756
Loc: middle of Germany
Re: Cocking-piece aperture sights [Re: mehulkamdar]
      #264275 - 27/04/15 08:14 PM

BTW, Rigby-style cocking piece peep sights are available and made in Germany by Gottfried Prechtl:
http://www.golmatic.net/Prechtl/de/Waffenteile/Visierteile/Schlagbolzendiopter


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Mike_Bailey
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Reged: 26/02/07
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Loc: GB
Re: Cocking-piece aperture sights [Re: kuduae]
      #264276 - 27/04/15 09:01 PM

Many thanks Kuduae, I hadnīt seen this thread, cheers

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ducmarc
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Reged: 14/07/14
Posts: 1207
Loc: fla
Re: Cocking-piece aperture sights [Re: Mike_Bailey]
      #264283 - 27/04/15 10:35 PM

theres a guy here in the states that makes one not as fancy as the german but 150$http://www.gun-shop.biz/id44.html . found it under rigby style sights by helmut.

--------------------
'killed by death' Lemmy.. ' boil the dog ' Elvis Manywounds "my best friend is my magnum forty four" hank willams the third.


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