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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Rifles
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CZ_hunter
.275 member


Reged: 08/07/13
Posts: 70
Loc: Prague, Czech Republic
What is wrong with 7x61 Sharpe & Hart or .275 H&H?
      #235535 - 12/09/13 05:11 AM

I wonder why these two 7mm magnum cartridges never became popular. Were they killed by the marketing of Remington? I would say they are of better design than e.g. 7 mm Remington Magnum and their longer necks are better suited for heavier bullets. The H&H shares its characteristics with 375 thus a slicker feeding is to expect. Not overblown as e.g. 7mm STW and can be used in standard Mauser action.
Aside the ANTImagnum mania in recent years I would say they deserve to stay with us.

CZ

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CZ

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tophet1
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Reged: 15/09/07
Posts: 1873
Loc: NSW, Australia
Re: What is wrong with 7x61 Sharpe & Hart or .275 H&H? [Re: CZ_hunter]
      #235540 - 12/09/13 08:26 AM

I think your right, sheer US marketing power overwhelmed them.

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wjw
.275 member


Reged: 05/06/10
Posts: 55
Loc: b.c.
Re: What is wrong with 7x61 Sharpe & Hart or .275 H&H? [Re: tophet1]
      #235546 - 12/09/13 12:53 PM

It can probably be said that the 7mm Remington overwhelmed these two cartridges. Many different rifles and loads were readily available for the Remington cartridge and the cost of both rifles and amumuition was less. The 7x61 was only reasonably readily available in the various Schultz & Larsen Models or as a custom and both the rifle and the amunition were more costly. The .275 H&H suffered from the same ills - expense and availability.

In SE BC the 7x61 was quite popular with sheep and elk hunters in the late 1950's and 1960's but as the availavlity of both rifles and ammunition lessened, then became unavailable use declined. Have seen some of the Schultz & Larsens rechambered to 7mm Remington or rebarreled to other cartridges so that the rifles could be used by their owners. This cartridge also suffered from some bad press as fare a it being reloadable in the Schultz & Larsen rifle.

Did manage to get 25 boxes of 7x61 when Norma relisted the cartridge and do load for it so there is one 7X61 that will stay as is.

Bill

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500Nitro
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Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: What is wrong with 7x61 Sharpe & Hart or .275 H&H? [Re: wjw]
      #235547 - 12/09/13 01:11 PM

The 275H&H Magnum was never that popular even though it
is a superb cartridge. I had a M98 H&H in it, take down
from memory.

Winchester didn't help as they chambered for the
300H&H and 375H&H but not the 275 - probably because
it was very similar to the 270 Win.

Ammo availability wouldn't have been that good either.

It was a cartridge ahead of it's time.

Edited by 500Nitro (12/09/13 01:11 PM)

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eagle27
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Reged: 24/01/09
Posts: 1124
Loc: Nelson, New Zealand
Re: What is wrong with 7x61 Sharpe & Hart or .275 H&H? [Re: 500Nitro]
      #235552 - 12/09/13 04:51 PM

The 7x61 was a great cartridge and the Schultz and Larsen rifles were also a fine rifle, appreciated by all those who owned and used them but as other posters have said there was only ever the Schultz and Larsen factory rifle made for the cartridge in one style and not cheap or else custom rifles usually made on the Mauser 98 action. The 7x61 started out well in the first place using a boat-tail 160gr bullet which made it the ideal hard hitting and long range cartridge for deer, bear, moose, sheep and goat. It was the forerunner of the 7mm Rem Magnum which handicapped itself in early loadings with round nose lighter bullets or the same style 175gr bullet. Once handloaders got on the job the loadings and performance were improved, as were factory loadings, to match the 7x61 although always using more powder to do so.

7x61 Norma ammo with 160gr bullets achieved over 3000fps in the S&L rifles as did reloads with the same weight bullet.

Possibly little known but Joyce Hornady himself shot a record book moose with a 7x61, so someone knew a great cartridge when they saw one.

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gryphon
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Reged: 01/01/03
Posts: 5487
Loc: Sambar ground/Victoria/Austral...
Re: What is wrong with 7x61 Sharpe & Hart or .275 H&H? [Re: eagle27]
      #235553 - 12/09/13 07:52 PM

http://www.custombrassandbullets.com/275hhmagnum.html

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375Brno
.333 member


Reged: 18/10/05
Posts: 354
Loc: Brisbane, Australia
Re: What is wrong with 7x61 Sharpe & Hart or .275 H&H? [Re: gryphon]
      #235555 - 12/09/13 08:21 PM

When you think of the hundreds of cartridges we have out there a lot of them would not be necessary in an "ideal efficient" world. Once you had one that did the job then why build another.
From what I have heard the 240 Apex can more or less replicate the 243W so why did the 243 get developed. Just the marketing power of a company like Winchester I suppose.
From another perspective it would be boring if we only had the 50 ( my guess) cartridges that we needed.
Rick

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500Nitro
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Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: What is wrong with 7x61 Sharpe & Hart or .275 H&H? [Re: 375Brno]
      #235558 - 12/09/13 09:17 PM


240 was another almost proprietary cartridge.

Early Proprietary cartridges have never done well.

They also had a bad bore size and not consistent.

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NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39261
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: What is wrong with 7x61 Sharpe & Hart or .275 H&H? [Re: 500Nitro]
      #235571 - 13/09/13 03:33 AM

Marketing power or proprietary restrictions?

Not sure if this was relevant for the historical cartridges but ...

Look at the .400 H&H Magnum, the .465 H&H Magnum and their introduction.

When they were introduced they were talked about all over the internet and here on NE. People here and elsewhere wanted to know about the cartridges, especially the .400. But all that was available was a several paragraph press release. Even much later they were hardly known and still the same PR paragraphs on the H&H webpage. I think that went on for years.

Eventually years later we started to see a few rifles made in the .400, as a guess a couple of mentions of people having a custom non-H&H rifle chambered for it.

I would think the actual number of rifles made by H&H in the chambering would also be quite low.

For a cartridge to become a new ".375 H&H Magnum", it would need to have real info put out to take up the interest at release time. There would have been lots of non-H&H rifles made for it, if adequate info had been available back then.

Same as Apple vs IBM type PCs years ago. IBM took over more than 95% of the PC market because multiple manufacturers could get access to the info/programs etc. Apple kept its technology for its own manufactured machines and so it lost most of the market share.

Now H&H may want all rifles made in these chamberings to all be H&H made rifles. I don't know. But the cartridges will never be popular unless more rifles and more makers have access to the specs/reamers etc. And ammo will only be available in very limited access.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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Igorrock
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Reged: 01/03/07
Posts: 1641
Loc: Finland
Re: What is wrong with 7x61 Sharpe & Hart or .275 H&H? [Re: NitroX]
      #235576 - 13/09/13 07:21 AM

By the way, is it possible to do 275H&H Magnum case from any parent case ?

--------------------
http://promaakari.wordpress.com/

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500Nitro
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Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: What is wrong with 7x61 Sharpe & Hart or .275 H&H? [Re: Igorrock]
      #235577 - 13/09/13 07:40 AM



I thought you could make 275H&H from 375H&H

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Yochanan
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Reged: 26/01/03
Posts: 912
Loc: Volksdiktatur Schweden
Re: What is wrong with 7x61 Sharpe & Hart or .275 H&H? [Re: 500Nitro]
      #235622 - 14/09/13 08:49 PM

Nothing, Rudolf Sand used a 7x61 to bag over 281 species of game.... Talk to an ammunitions manufacturer about 7mm rem mag you will hear about lots of problems.

Funny that 7 mm Wby mag still is around...

Norma makes 7x61 S&H brass now and then.

--------------------
© "I have never been able to appreciate 'shock' as applied to killing big game. It seems to me that you cannot kill an elephant weighing six tons by ´shock´unless you advocate the use of a field gun." - W.D.M. Bell: Wanderings of an Elephant Hunter.

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Nordmann
.300 member


Reged: 05/07/13
Posts: 166
Loc: Denmark
Re: What is wrong with 7x61 Sharpe & Hart or .275 H&H? [Re: Yochanan]
      #235626 - 14/09/13 11:10 PM

There is nothing wrong with a .275 H&H, its a fab cartridge. In fact if anyone wants a pair of Holland & Hollands .275 flanged magnums, then I have the only pair.

http://www.jamesedition.com/lifestyle-co...e-rifles-637551

--------------------
James Etherington-Thorpe - a man's reputation can be known by his words. Read Mr Thorpe's comments and judge his character by his own words and attitudes.

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