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Hardrada55
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Reged: 29/07/13
Posts: 11
Loc: Oklahoma
Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Igorrock]
      #233385 - 02/08/13 01:30 PM

The Russians were making some nicely engineered sporters during the 30s and 40s.

















In 1931, Kochetov, DM based on the Mosin rifle was developed by NC hunting rifle, 8, 2 -gauge 8.2-mm. The carbine was manufactured at the Tula Arms Plant before 1941, both for the domestic market and for export to order the Mongolian People's Republic. Ammo for the rifle Kochetov consisted of a brass sleeve length 66 mm, which had a bottle-shaped, groove and partially protruding rim. Cartridge primer were filled with the central battlefield, a charge of black gunpowder and a lead bullet weighing 14.5 grams with an initial flight speed of 400 m / sec. During the war there were hunting rifles for the armed militias.
After the war ended in 1946 at the Izhevsk Machine-Building Plant was arranged production hunting rifle KO-8, 2 "Moose", and in 1962 - KO-8, a modernized round 2M 8,2 × 66m, which were fitted with a charge of powder and soft point pistol bullet weighing 9.6 grams (tompakovaya shell and core of suryamistogo lead SSA).
Issue rifle lasted until 1965, and rounds up to 1978. Bullet cartridges in the pre-war issue were fixed in a tight pocket trip and a modernized chuck segment crimp sleeves or three-point edge kerneniem.
Attempts were made to learn the serial production of the cartridge with a bullet shell in the 30s and in 70s (bullet weight 9.6 g), but the mass production of ammunition with bullet shell had not been implemented. Most of the ammunition produced with sleeves, without bottom marks, with the exception of post-war sample rounds 8,2 × 66m with a bottom stamp in the form of a five-pointed star.



Edited by Hardrada55 (02/08/13 01:32 PM)


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Igorrock
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Hardrada55]
      #233386 - 02/08/13 01:59 PM

Thanks for those fotos. The converted magazine looks very interesting.

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lancaster
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Igorrock]
      #233450 - 03/08/13 07:03 PM

hardrada, its a very interesting hunting rifle
its your?
knowing they exist but this are the first pics I see of this model. if there was only more room in the safes I would like to have it but this is an old problem.

would be happy also if I can get one of the 8,2x66 cartridges it seems this cartridge is out of production for decades now.






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Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians


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Hardrada55
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Reged: 29/07/13
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: lancaster]
      #233453 - 03/08/13 10:45 PM

Sorry, but no, that rifle is not mine. Though I am very interested in finding out more information about hunting rifles and gunsmithing done in countries (especially Russia) besides "the usual suspects", the pictures I posted are from research on the web. I would love to find information and/or pictures concerning a Mosin sporter made by a V. Markovich right at the end of World War I chambered in a slightly shortened version of 7.62 Russian.

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lancaster
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Hardrada55]
      #233471 - 04/08/13 02:50 PM

Quote:

Though I am very interested in finding out more information about hunting rifles and gunsmithing done in countries besides "the usual suspects"




that's what makes the world turn around



--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians


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Deutsche_Vortrekker
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Reged: 27/04/08
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Igorrock]
      #235976 - 24/09/13 01:16 AM

Quote:

These Mosins are for sale here in Finlad, price 85€/piece. All made by SAKO:

http://www.tori.fi/lappi/Sakon_kivaareita_7390264.htm?ca=14&w=3

7x53R


8,2x53R


9,3x53R





Wow , thanks for these pictures . I hope all you Finns realize this is causing me sleepless nights knowing that rifles like this are found on a regular basis in Finland and nearly impossible to find in the USA


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Hardrada55
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Reged: 29/07/13
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Deutsche_Vortrekker]
      #235982 - 24/09/13 06:42 AM

Did any of V. E. Markovich's sporterized Mosin Nagants from circa 1917 in the weird shortened 7.62 Mosin Nagant make it to Finland?

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Igorrock
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Hardrada55]
      #235995 - 24/09/13 02:40 PM

Haven´t heard and seen any.

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Cashman
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Reged: 21/01/12
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Hardrada55]
      #236066 - 26/09/13 05:02 AM

Quote:

Did any of V. E. Markovich's sporterized Mosin Nagants from circa 1917 in the weird shortened 7.62 Mosin Nagant make it to Finland?




Short as in short round or short as in short rifle?


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Igorrock
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Cashman]
      #236070 - 26/09/13 06:27 AM

I´m sure he mean these:

Quote:

7.62x48R based on shortened 7.62x54R cartridge 139grain (9g) @ (725mps) 2378fps Circa 1916 - 1918 by V. E. Markovich. Used in converted Mosin Nagant actioned rifles.






Edited by Igorrock (26/09/13 06:34 AM)


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Isopeura
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Reged: 01/06/08
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: lancaster]
      #236124 - 27/09/13 05:28 AM

The history of 7x33 is quite interesting as this round is meant for game that can be considered as an anomaly in western hunting culture. It is a bird shooting cartridge, first and foremost. It also has a sinister story in Finnish crime history, unfortunately. The manufacturing history is also interesting as this round could be made with same machinery as was used during WW-II to make 9x19mm cartridges.

This cartridge has had its ups and downs but it had a popularity boost as Sako reintroduced the round a decade or so ago. Thousands of rifles chambered to this mild powered and meat saving round got a new lease on life due to this generous act from the company. Ok, the cartridges sold like no other, so it was good business also...

This cartridge is very good small game round up to 150 yards maximum. It's main purpose is to deliver meat to the pot and it does this job well.


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Oldbrit
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Isopeura]
      #236125 - 27/09/13 07:24 AM

Quote:

The history of 7x33 .... has a sinister story in Finnish crime history, unfortunately.




Could you explain that please?


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Igorrock
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Oldbrit]
      #236145 - 27/09/13 01:51 PM

Quote:

The history of 7x33....also has a sinister story in Finnish crime history, unfortunately.



In 1969 one quy shot 4 policemen with 7x33 SAKO rifle. Later one finish film director made a film about those happenings. It´s name is "Kahdeksan surmanluotia" (Eight deadly bullets).


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Deutsche_Vortrekker
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Igorrock]
      #236182 - 28/09/13 09:20 AM


Here is My early Sako 222 Riihimaki .I never noticed it before but the stock and iron sights are quite similar to the early Sako Mosins in Igorrocks photo

Edited by Deutsche_Vortrekker (28/09/13 09:21 AM)


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lancaster
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Igorrock]
      #236187 - 28/09/13 03:07 PM

Quote:

I´m sure he mean these:

Quote:

7.62x48R based on shortened 7.62x54R cartridge 139grain (9g) @ (725mps) 2378fps Circa 1916 - 1918 by V. E. Markovich. Used in converted Mosin Nagant actioned rifles.









would like to see a pic of this wildcat cartridge

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians


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Hardrada55
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Reged: 29/07/13
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: lancaster]
      #236212 - 29/09/13 06:32 AM

I'd love to see a picture of the rifle, too.

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Bokmal
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Reged: 10/02/09
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Hardrada55]
      #236224 - 29/09/13 08:30 PM

These are scans from a xeroxed copy an early 1960ies export brochure for Soviet civilian small arms and ammo. Sorry for the quality!



Edited by Bokmal (30/09/13 01:57 AM)


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lancaster
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Bokmal]
      #236262 - 01/10/13 01:23 AM

thank for the scans, the 8,2x66 is a cartridge many collectors are looking for

this dealer have a Winchester 95 in 9,3x53R
http://www.pyssypuoti.fi/kauppa/product_details.php?p=842

and another one

http://www.pyssypuoti.fi/kauppa/product_details.php?p=936

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

Edited by lancaster (01/10/13 01:25 AM)


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Deutsche_Vortrekker
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: lancaster]
      #236459 - 07/10/13 10:11 AM

I believe there was a Finnish M95 Winchester in 7.62x53R in the Finnish movie Mosku

Edited by Deutsche_Vortrekker (07/10/13 01:03 PM)


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Igorrock
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Deutsche_Vortrekker]
      #236464 - 07/10/13 03:15 PM

Quote:

I believe there was a Finnish M95 Winchester in 7.62x53R in the Finnish movie Mosku



Correct. But in the book, where the real story has been told, Mosku`s rifle has described so that in the real life it was m94 in caliber .30-30 or .25-35. Winchester carbine rifles were not so uncommon in finnish Lapland because they were quite popular "souvenir" for those finnish immigrant who came back from USA.



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Deutsche_Vortrekker
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Igorrock]
      #236588 - 10/10/13 03:07 PM

I loved the movie and have watched it many times with English subtitles. My Finnish can grab a few words now and again. Was the book written in English ? If so I would love to obtain a copy

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Igorrock
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Deutsche_Vortrekker]
      #236597 - 10/10/13 11:15 PM

The story what we now discuss about has been told in two different books; first one is "Ihmismetsästäjiä ja erämiehiä". and the second one "Vanhat kalajumalat".The author is K.M. Wallenius.
The first one has been translated to sweden and german language, but not in english. The german language book is: Menschenjäger und Fallensteller. Fahrten und Streiffzüge durch die Wildmarken Lapplands. Übersetzt von Rita Öhquist und prof. Kolster. Leipzig-Berlin 1944. Lühe Verlag.

The author was general in finnish army. Here link to Wikipedia article which you could tranlate in english with GOOGLE:

http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/K._M._Wallenius

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kuduae
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Igorrock]
      #236599 - 10/10/13 11:35 PM

No need for GOOGLE Translator, K.M. Wallenius on English wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurt_Martti_Wallenius


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Igorrock
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: kuduae]
      #236601 - 11/10/13 12:46 AM

Thanks, the finnish version includes more fact of his author career.

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lancaster
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Re: The best Mosin sporting rifle project in world history [Re: Igorrock]
      #237914 - 17/11/13 10:02 PM

found this pic of an old sowjet made 9,3x53R ammo box


http://www.google.de/imgres?sa=X&biw...et/page/item/id,143202719,var,cartouches-9x53R,language,F.html&docid=pg74_yHWNIFKpM&imgurl=http://images-00.delcampe-static.net/img_large/auction/000/143/202/719_001.jpg&w=545&h=730&ei=GqGIUum7BIqbtAarrYG4Ag&zoom=1&iact=rc&dur=2&page=1&tbnh=122&tbnw=112&start=0&ndsp=19&ved=1t:429,r:11,s:0,i:115&tx=919&ty=441

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians


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