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awo425
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Reged: 29/04/09
Posts: 11
Loc: Germany
Re: winchester 95 9,3x53R [Re: lancaster]
      #133875 - 29/04/09 05:29 PM

There are several M95 for sale at a german dealers shop, some .405Win also.
Prices are HIGH, 2000 and up.

The Mosin action can be modified for many calibers, I saw a 30-06 Mosin with heavy barrel, built by a SAKO gunsmith for his own use.

But nowerdays gunsmithwork here is expensive, way cheaper to get some old rifles and restore them, if needed.

I hope that the hunting museum in Riihimäki will get bigger showrooms, so that they can display the rifels in storage now.
I was invited to teh storage rooms on my last visit this winter, VERY impressive!
All kind of hnting rifle conversions of older military guns.
Some real cuoriosiries, like a straightpull shotgun made from a SVT40!


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9.3x57
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Reged: 22/04/07
Posts: 4709
Loc: Idaho
Re: winchester 95 9,3x53R [Re: lancaster]
      #133894 - 29/04/09 10:50 PM

Lancaster: Statistically I believe you are correct. The black bear does injure and probably kill more people than the browns, but only because blackies are distributed throughout areas of high population density and most bear attacks seem to be provoked by some sort of unusual behavior by people; feeding bear being the most common. We consider them dangerous to dogs certainly, and I know many cases of bear injuring or killing dogs, but we do not consider them especially dangerous to people though they certainly can be, and even our small ones can take an amazing amount of physical punishment and keep fighting. And they can run forever, and sometimes do!!

As for the meat, it is, in my opinion, the best meat in the woods. Very tender, it tastes much like aged beef and a bear roast is indistinguishable from a fine beef pot roast. It is wonderful!

Mosin's were once VERY popular hunting rifles in the USA, back in the 30's when cheap MN's could be obtained and Remington made ammunition for them. Then, for years, no US company made ammo. Now, there are many, many thousands of MN's in the USA and many have large collections of them. I myself did, but sold my entire MN collection some years ago. The action is indeed strong and bedding for accuracy easy. And they are or can be, VERY accurate.

I have seen some interesting sporters based on both the hexagonal {91} and round {91-30} actions. The bolt is a fascinating design, very sturdy and VERY reliable. I would say probably as reliable as the Mauser 98 and the action very strong. The bolt fit in the action is somewhat loose and not "smooth" functioning.

The real "devil" is the trigger. The stock Russian trigger is a challenge. Some rifles have nice pulls, others....UHG!! It has a long drag, then a spongy and seemingly variable release. After much tinkering, I finally learned how to reshape a stock Russian trigger to give a good pull with a two-stage release. Very nice. The Finns beat the Russian trigger by the addition of two pins creating two humps for a repeatable two-stage release. These are found on Finnish M28-30 and M39 rifles. They can be adjusted very light and crisp. I have reworked quite a number of guns.

Original Winchester 95's here pricey, especially those in .405 Winchester. I have a friend with a large collection of 95's. He has 95's in .303, .30-40, .38-72, .40-72, .405, .30-06. But I do not believe he has a 7.62. They just are very rare here!

And a 95 in 9,3x53R???

Not a chance!

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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Schauckis
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Reged: 17/07/07
Posts: 147
Loc: Finland
Re: winchester 95 9,3x53R [Re: awo425]
      #133938 - 30/04/09 05:02 AM

Quote:

Hello,

I am the proud owner of hat Winchester :-)




Congrats, Chris!
Good buy. A very good buy!

Quote:

Saw several M95 at Tampere this year, one with SAKO barrel in 7,62x53R and one or two in 6,5(or 6,3???) x53R.
But the 9,3mm version I liked best and arranged the import.




Yes, there were!
I was surprised myself, too.
However: Many were quite exorbitantly priced... Original Russian Army ones in 7,62x53R up to 1000€! Whoopsie.
Then again, for the hunter there were many customized ("spoiled"?) ones that could make decent projects.
Also some good restoration projects.

- Lars

--------------------
A.k.a. Bwana One-Shot


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lancaster
.416 member


Reged: 06/05/08
Posts: 4558
Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...
Re: winchester 95 9,3x53R [Re: Schauckis]
      #133939 - 30/04/09 05:19 AM

because we are in winchester 95 no, awo425 send me a link of a german dealer. he is having 5 rifles on his site http://www.hschiemann.com/Our_Products.html


405 take down 5500 euro



405 high grade 8595 euro



35 wcf 3900 euro



38-72 2250 euro



303 carbine 950 euro

what do other think about this prices?

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

Edited by CptCurl (15/05/09 09:22 PM)


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awo425
.224 member


Reged: 29/04/09
Posts: 11
Loc: Germany
Re: winchester 95 9,3x53R [Re: Schauckis]
      #133940 - 30/04/09 05:21 AM

1000Euro is not bad for a original m95, here dealers ask 2500+ for such pieces!

If I can scrape together the money, I will buy a original M95 one day.

But befor that, I will return to Tampere and buy some more cool huntng rifles

BTW, do you know somebody in Finland, who has a die set for 9,3x53R for sale?

Chris


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Schauckis
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Reged: 17/07/07
Posts: 147
Loc: Finland
Re: winchester 95 9,3x53R [Re: awo425]
      #134033 - 01/05/09 05:13 AM

Quote:

BTW, do you know somebody in Finland, who has a die set for 9,3x53R for sale?




I don't know for sure, but I'd suggest you try Riistamaa, they probably have Lee's custom dies for 9,3x53R.
riistamaa@riistamaa.fi
tel. +358 9 4110 1290

--------------------
A.k.a. Bwana One-Shot


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Igorrock
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Reged: 01/03/07
Posts: 1360
Loc: Finland
Re: winchester 95 9,3x53R [Re: Schauckis]
      #134097 - 01/05/09 05:46 PM

I bought my 7x53R die set from CH Tool & Die and think they would have 9,3x53R dies in stock too.

http://www.ch4d.com/

--------------------
http://promaakari.wordpress.com/


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lancaster
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Reged: 06/05/08
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Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...
Re: winchester 95 9,3x53R [Re: Igorrock]
      #134108 - 01/05/09 08:38 PM

yes, it is


--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

Edited by CptCurl (15/05/09 09:23 PM)


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awo425
.224 member


Reged: 29/04/09
Posts: 11
Loc: Germany
Re: winchester 95 9,3x53R [Re: lancaster]
      #135058 - 11/05/09 04:49 AM

OK, we had a range test today.
And to make it a good test, a retiered Major of the finnich Army waas with me :-)



The results were not that good, but the cause for that are definitely the swadged lead bullets, I used. Not good at all, bases not uniform, so lots of flyers and even one keyhole.
Barrel was not dirty at all, very pleasant to shoot.



Now I have to wait for better bullets and order a dies set too.

Chris

Edited by CptCurl (15/05/09 09:27 PM)


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9.3x57
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Reged: 22/04/07
Posts: 4709
Loc: Idaho
Re: winchester 95 9,3x53R [Re: awo425]
      #135062 - 11/05/09 05:42 AM

Lancaster, what is that flatpoint bullet???

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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lancaster
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Reged: 06/05/08
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Re: winchester 95 9,3x53R [Re: 9.3x57]
      #135095 - 11/05/09 04:08 PM

at least you have the holes on the target
no, to be seroius, I found the copper plated lead bullets very sensitive with only ligth pitted bores and not 100% correct reloading tactic. also only trust them at 50 meter.
what was your load, vithavouri N110 powder?
what you need is a long softpoint bullet, 286 grains! if this will not grouping you better sell the rifle to me.

the bullet on my pic was made from cut down 222 rem brass(.375 base diameter), loaded one of this copper plated 8mm S bullet inside. it was the only bullet I have on hands to try the new reloading die set. in the name of sience I was making a plinking bullet for a 9,5mm MS on my wish list. see sometimes here that some of you make .366 bullets from such homemade softpoints. when thinking about 9mm parabellum brass(.389)is swaged down to .366 was believing that .375 is much more simple to reduce. a homemade die that endet in .368 because I wasnt careful enough was not pleasent to swage in the rock chucker. in the end I have to rebore it to .3705.
make another .366 die and swage in two steps is maybe the way to go.

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians


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lancaster
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Reged: 06/05/08
Posts: 4558
Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...
Re: winchester 95 9,3x53R [Re: lancaster]
      #135096 - 11/05/09 04:10 PM

btw, is the winchester working with mosin stripper clips?

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians


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9.3x57
.416 member


Reged: 22/04/07
Posts: 4709
Loc: Idaho
Re: winchester 95 9,3x53R [Re: lancaster]
      #135113 - 11/05/09 10:26 PM

Interesting, lancaster!

I had to anneal {soften} the 7.62x25 and 9mm cases before drawing {die reducing} them. They then went thru the dies very easily. Getting two bullets to line up will be difficult. But always such projects are interesting indeed!!

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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awo425
.224 member


Reged: 29/04/09
Posts: 11
Loc: Germany
Re: winchester 95 9,3x53R [Re: 9.3x57]
      #135152 - 12/05/09 06:46 AM

I use H&N copper palted lead bullets out to 100m with excellent success, but the 9,3mm bullets were from an unknwon manufacturer, bougth just 100 for function check.
Noe dirt in teh barrel wahtsoever, teh barrel is nice and shiny :-)
I used 20grn of N110 behind the 275grn bullet.

Ofcourse the Winchester functions with Mosin chargers, it was designed that way :-)
I selected this M1895 also because of teh charger guides were still there, others had them removed(one with a new SAKO barrel in 7,6x53R).

I have some other projects still waiting, the Vetterli need ammo and two pistols need inspection.
So teh winchester will have to wait somewhat, complete disassembly an checkum, gotta smoth out some buggered up screws and some other small things.

Will report back here, when I did another rage session with better bullets.
But I think, I will wait, till I get the die set.

Chris


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lancaster
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Reged: 06/05/08
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Re: winchester 95 9,3x53R [Re: awo425]
      #135196 - 12/05/09 08:43 PM

awo,I hope to make another order to ch4d in mai/juni when its possible to make the chamber cast for this. will you come in?

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians


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awo425
.224 member


Reged: 29/04/09
Posts: 11
Loc: Germany
Re: winchester 95 9,3x53R [Re: lancaster]
      #135243 - 13/05/09 06:29 AM

I will be with you on that order.
9,3x53R for sure and maybe 8,2x53R also.
They also offer bullet swadging dies, would need one for .308" to .300" for my Carcano.

Just let me know, when you do the order, but I am on vacation in the end of May.

Chris


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Hobbit
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Reged: 25/07/08
Posts: 13
Loc: Toledo, Ohio USA
Re: winchester 95 9,3x53R [Re: awo425]
      #136614 - 03/06/09 11:41 AM

Wow...cool thread. I had a 1895 in .30 06, but that seems so boring now...

--------------------
I have a pair of Westley Richards....socks...


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9.3x57
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Reged: 22/04/07
Posts: 4709
Loc: Idaho
Re: winchester 95 9,3x53R [Re: Hobbit]
      #136615 - 03/06/09 11:47 AM

LEE makes bullet sizing dies for custom sizes. $25.00 per die. You select the internal dimension.

Much cheaper than CH4D.

I use LEE dies in a variety of calibers, and especially in 9.3mm. I use them to size down .375 caliber bullets to 9.3mm.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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awo425
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Reged: 29/04/09
Posts: 11
Loc: Germany
Re: winchester 95 9,3x53R [Re: 9.3x57]
      #137301 - 15/06/09 05:15 AM

Ok, got a die set(Thanks Lars!) and some light S&B Bullets.
The load is nothing to kill moose with, but shoots not too bad, giving 665m/s(standard deviation 3,3m/s) with mild recoil.


Got to drift the frontsight to the left.
First 3 shots were done with the rearsight set to the scribe line in the sight leave, making the shots go way high at 100m in the target above.
Lowest sight setting is good for 6 o'clock hold at 100m and POA at 50m, I can live with that.

Chris


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VonGruff
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Reged: 08/02/09
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Loc: South Otago, New Zealand.
Re: winchester 95 9,3x53R [Re: awo425]
      #137306 - 15/06/09 08:39 AM

.


Got to drift the frontsight to the left.

Chris




Chriss you need to shift you front sight to the right not the left to correct your impact point.

Your imopact error looks like 3 inches and if your sight radius is 20 inches and your target distance is 100 yards you need to shift your front sight .016 to the right.

impact error 3inches
sight radius 20 inches
target distance 100 yards x 36 inches =3600 inches

impact error multiplied by sight radius divided by target distance

3x20=60divided by 3600 = .0166

You could shift your rear sight towards desired point of impact but the front sight goes with the sight error.

Von Gruff.

--------------------
Von Gruff.

Exodus 20:1-17

Acts 4:10-12


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awo425
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Reged: 29/04/09
Posts: 11
Loc: Germany
Re: winchester 95 9,3x53R [Re: VonGruff]
      #137344 - 15/06/09 03:34 PM

You are right, I forgot to switch on brain befor writing
Mixed that up with the setting for the Vetterli I shot in the same session, also shoots right but has driftable REARsight.

Frontsight is drifted already, sightpusher for swedish Mauser worked(german G98 front sight block with Luger P08 sight in it)

Chris


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lancaster
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Re: winchester 95 9,3x53R [Re: awo425]
      #137349 - 15/06/09 04:04 PM

good to see that your shooting is improve with the new die set
I think you are able now to pass the finnish shooting qualification for the next moose hunting season with your rifle. have you slug the barrel? the 196 grain S&B is for the 9,3x72R rigth? a .364 bullet diameter. with a .366 barrel diameter there is nothing wrong with your group.
BTW another story an old dealer told me once: the 9,3x53R was copied after the 9,3x72R because the finnish was so satisfied with this old german round and wish to copy this ballistic in a mosin. maybe not true but the old 9,3 is a great killer in woodland.

I think your veterli is also a finnish rifle, captured from russia or send from italy in 1940?
Do you know if the 10,4x47R vetterli was also use as a hunting round in finland?


what you realy need now is correct headstamp brass


dont have a rifle but readiness is all

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

Edited by lancaster (15/06/09 04:13 PM)


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awo425
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Reged: 29/04/09
Posts: 11
Loc: Germany
Re: winchester 95 9,3x53R [Re: lancaster]
      #137383 - 16/06/09 04:46 AM

The S&B 193grn bullest are exactly .366", with N120 or something like taht one could push them real fast, Quickload gives around 800m/s
But I do not hunt with that rifle and for paperpunching the 659m/s are good enough for me.
The loads last time were not good, the lead bullets are crapp. Too bad, H&N do not make the 9,3mm CUHS any more, would have been a nice plinker.

I do not knwo the history of th3 9,3x53r, but there were many cartridges based on that case there, ranging from .25 up to .375 in bullet size. They had lots of Mosin actions and also quite a few Winchesters to convert. Also Arisakas and Mausers were modified, but mostly you see Mosins in the gunshops and gunshows. Good collecting field fo rme:-)

My Vetterli is a swiss M78-81, so it never was to Finland, they only had the earlier M69 and M71, brought there during russo -japanese war by a ship named "Grafton" togeher with some Webley revolvers.
So both the Webleys and the Vetterlis are known as Graftons in Finland even nowerdays.
There is a picture of a moose hunt in finnish Hunting Museum of Riihimäki, showing a Vetterli.
A lead slug of 320grn at 400m/s should also be a good moosekiller.

I form my brass from PPU cases, way cheaper for me, as they were already here, got plenty of Mosins to feed. But normaly I use S&B cases for them.


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lancaster
.416 member


Reged: 06/05/08
Posts: 4558
Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...
Re: winchester 95 9,3x53R [Re: awo425]
      #137405 - 16/06/09 12:43 PM

the whole cartridge family is on egun just now







http://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=2298274&PHPSESSID=86442d3912f9cad6ce053c05bcc01ccd
http://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=2298384&PHPSESSID=86442d3912f9cad6ce053c05bcc01ccd
http://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=2299451&PHPSESSID=86442d3912f9cad6ce053c05bcc01ccd

when swiss vetterli is was born as a rimfire, did the finnish convert them to centerfire?

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

Edited by lancaster (16/06/09 12:44 PM)


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9.3x57
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Reged: 22/04/07
Posts: 4709
Loc: Idaho
Re: winchester 95 9,3x53R [Re: lancaster]
      #137408 - 16/06/09 01:42 PM

I've used that 193 grain S&B bullet with a charge of fast pistol powder in 9.3x57 on grouse. It works pretty well. About like a .357 Magnum load. Pushed fast they blow up in my test media and would be a bad bullet for general big game hunting, especially moose. Would make a good roedeer bullet if driven to about 2100 fps I think.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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