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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Rifles
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mickey
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Reged: 05/01/03
Posts: 4647
Loc: Pend Oreille Valley, Idaho
Who is Winning O'Connor or Kieth?
      #5796 - 17/12/03 02:22 PM

By NitroExpress

Those calibres in the .323 to .366 range seem to be so effective with heavy 250 gr bullets. Rounds such as the .318 (.330) Westley Richards and .333 were once famous. The 9.3 calibres are increasing in popularity. The newer .338's and the good old .35's. Most have moderate speeds and often do use a round-nose projectile.

Elmer Keith would agree with that statement.

I really do think the round-nose is the true hunting bullet (some might argue a flat point) for controlled expansion. The long pointed spitzer is perhaps a fad of the magnum velocity craze.

Who is winning in the end?

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.

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Crazyquik
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Reged: 21/12/03
Posts: 60
Re: Who is Winning O'Connor or Kieth? [Re: mickey]
      #6528 - 05/01/04 10:11 AM

Well the new hot calibers seem to be the .223 WSSM, .243 WSSM, 7mm WSM, .270 WSM, .300 WSM, then the Remington Short Magnums.

The Remington Ultra mags on the other end of the spectrum are loosely based on the .404 Jeffery case, necked down so you can shoot 140 grain bullets at 3400 fps. It uses a rebated rim so it can use a regular magnum bolt.

The .300 Ultra Mag that everyone seems to be crazy over and "has to have" eclipses the 25 year old 8mm Remington Mag by about 100 fps in 200 grain bullets, a cartridge that is the least successful of any Remington made since WW2. I dont even think a regular production gun has been made in it since like 1985 (just custom shop stuff). In fact, the 8mm Rem Mag is more popular for spawning the 7mm STW wildcat (which is now factory loaded, and now obsolete by the 7mm Ultra Mag) than as a cartridge on its own.

Of about a dozen new cartridges released by Winchester and Remington, only 2 are above .308 caliber. The .338 Ultra Mag and the .375 Ultra Mag.

No .458 WSM that does what the .458 Win Mag was supposed to do (replicate the .470 NE in a shorter case in a bolt gun). No .404s or .416s on this rebated rim Ultra Mag case so a standard magnum bolt face can be used. Everyone wants flat shooting fast small bullets, not big slower ones that poke big holes. No .338 Short Mag although A-Square just made and certified the .338-06 A-Square. Shame it isn't the .338 Keith. Not a .35 or 8mm in any of these new ones.

Jack is beating Elmer.

The only glimer of hope is that Remington reintroduced the Guide Rifle in .350 Remington Mag. Maybe Winchester will come out with a carbine in .358 Winchester Short Mag.

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TheGuru
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Reged: 05/01/04
Posts: 1
Re: Who is Winning O'Connor or Kieth? [Re: Crazyquik]
      #6541 - 05/01/04 04:46 PM

aah, but does one win a race by leading the pack, or by following its tail ?



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the guru has spoken



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Holmes
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Reged: 01/12/03
Posts: 159
Loc: Wyoming, USA
Re: Who is Winning O'Connor or Kieth? [Re: mickey]
      #7155 - 20/01/04 04:28 PM

I think Jack is winning but I do not think that means he was correct and Elmer incorrect.

Market trends reflect the short case-high velocity cartridge that can easily be represented in the common rags and glorified by the "expert" writers. This makes it much easier to shove these 'been done already' cartridges upon the average hunter who really has no in depth knowledge of ballistics and terminal performance of projectiles.

I'll be stayin' in Elmer's camp....

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mickey
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Reged: 05/01/03
Posts: 4647
Loc: Pend Oreille Valley, Idaho
Re: Who is Winning O'Connor or Kieth? [Re: Holmes]
      #7165 - 20/01/04 06:30 PM

The last high velocity rifle I bought was a 340 WB. That was 14 years ago.

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.

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Dark_Helmet
.333 member


Reged: 09/01/04
Posts: 399
Loc: Lincoln, Nebraska, USA
Re: Who is Winning O'Connor or Kieth? [Re: mickey]
      #7190 - 21/01/04 06:27 AM

it all boils down to what you are hunting... if its bigger than a white-tail, heavy-for caliber is a VERY effective tool to re-arrange an animals innards... but for taking 400-yard pot-shots at NA pronghorn, I'll take a 257wby with 100gr BTs thanks very much!

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_________________________________________________________________
When someone says a rifle is "ugly," what they really mean is "push feed."

-me

(long live the Mauser 98!)

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Crazyquik
.275 member


Reged: 21/12/03
Posts: 60
Re: Who is Winning O'Connor or Kieth? [Re: Dark_Helmet]
      #7202 - 21/01/04 09:11 AM

I'd love to buy a gun factory chambered in .338-.375 and on a 308 brass. Or even a .375 Short Mag (probably at reduced velocities). Heavy for game bullets that make big holes at moderate velocity.

But since neither of those are factory available, I'm currently working on loads for an 8x57.

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