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3DogMike
.400 member


Reged: 29/01/15
Posts: 1468
Loc: Western Slope, Colorado USA
H. Holland .450 Express
      #375209 - 17/03/23 10:04 AM

My latest acquisition; a Harris (or maybe Henry) Holland .450 Express from July 1874.
This rifle pre dates the 1876 formation of Holland and Holland as we know it. The letter from H&H indicates this was a Henry Holland rifle, but that seems an error because Harris' nephew Henry William Holland, while working for Harris Holland at that time, was seemingly not a partner until the 1876 change to "Holland and Holland".

At any rate this is a .450 3 1/4" Express with 28" barrels and weighs 8lbs 12oz. The bores are near excellent, only a couple of inconsequential mild corrosion blemishes. A 14 3/8" length of pull to a metal buttplate and London Proof. Non rebounding locks with stalking safeties.
The rifle has had a nice proper "sympathetic" refresh done to the barrel blacking and stock finish. The engraving remains sharp and there is a fair amount of faded case colors evident.

I've not gotten to shoot it yet as we are in about 3 feet of snow. Will report on shooting results in due course.
- Mike

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Huvius
.416 member


Reged: 04/11/07
Posts: 3561
Loc: Colorado
Re: H. Holland .450 Express [Re: 3DogMike]
      #375210 - 17/03/23 10:54 AM

Well, THAT doesn't suck...

--------------------
He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27093
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: H. Holland .450 Express [Re: Huvius]
      #375214 - 17/03/23 01:14 PM

So nice - those elaborate fences speak of early it's mfg'r.
Lovely!

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39992
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: H. Holland .450 Express [Re: DarylS]
      #375225 - 17/03/23 05:47 PM

Looks lovely. What game would have it been used for in 1874? Red stag? Indian medium game?

Any plans to hunt with it.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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degoins
.333 member


Reged: 28/02/06
Posts: 435
Loc: SC, USA
Re: H. Holland .450 Express [Re: NitroX]
      #375243 - 17/03/23 11:28 PM

Very nice!!!

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3DogMike
.400 member


Reged: 29/01/15
Posts: 1468
Loc: Western Slope, Colorado USA
Re: H. Holland .450 Express [Re: NitroX]
      #375246 - 18/03/23 02:46 AM

Quote:

Looks lovely. What game would have it been used for in 1874? Red stag? Indian medium game?

Any plans to hunt with it.



Good morning John, (morning my time at any rate)
I have read that these were used for Scottish game and things like Indian Black Buck, smaller deer, etc.

Would be a fine deer rifle here in the States, if I get the chance to hunt deer with it I certainly will.

- Mike

--------------------
"Will Rogers never met a fighter pilot"
- Anon

“Always carry a flask of whiskey in case of snakebite, and furthermore always carry a small snake."
-- W. C. Fields

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27093
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: H. Holland .450 Express [Re: 3DogMike]
      #375248 - 18/03/23 03:46 AM

Yes - with those light bullets it would have been used on all smaller big game originally. A 300gr. intermediate hardness cast HP at 1,700fps to 2,000fps also makes a decent intermediate sized moose round. My bro's .45 3 1/4" Sharps did a very good job on moose with a 300gr. jacketed bullet. 1" exit out the other side - double lung'd & dropped inside 40yards, a 50 yard shot. The moose wasn't big, about 500pounds.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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TH44
.375 member


Reged: 21/02/09
Posts: 735
Loc: West UK
Re: H. Holland .450 Express [Re: 3DogMike]
      #375262 - 18/03/23 11:11 AM

Mike - that is a good catch!

As expected from an early(ish) rifle the high hammers and non rebounding locks are standard form

With stalking safeties and the full rose and scroll engraving (my personal favourite) whats not to like

It looks like a W&C Scott made rifle (more than Philip Webley) who between them made almost all of H&H guns and rifles at the time (Before H&H built their own factory in 1892/3)

My .500 BPE H&H is less good, plainer with flat hammers, early with non rebounding locks like yours
Not sure if it is the other maker ( In am not quite sure about the differences)

The .450 3 1/4" cartridge of the time could be had with a 365 grain bullet ahead of 120 grains of BP would drop any thin skinned game (note the Martini Henry with albeit heavier 480 grain bullet ahead of 85 grains BP was used on all game including elephant) before the prohibition of the .45 calibres in the Empire

good luck shooting it should be easy to load for, not sure about regulation

I am most jealous of you guys in the U.S. and elsewhere who can just go and shoot these beauties a where it is safe

Best

Tony

Edited by TH44 (18/03/23 11:13 AM)

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rglenz
.300 member


Reged: 14/03/08
Posts: 136
Loc: w. Minn
Re: H. Holland .450 Express [Re: TH44]
      #375264 - 18/03/23 11:59 AM

Mike, believe it or not I have no. 2973. The rifle is identical but less engraving and as it came out of India the condition is nowhere near yours.

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LRF
.333 member


Reged: 28/03/11
Posts: 356
Loc: minnesota ,usa
Re: H. Holland .450 Express [Re: rglenz]
      #375267 - 18/03/23 12:11 PM

Quote:

Mike, believe it or not I have no. 2973. The rifle is identical but less engraving and as it came out of India the condition is nowhere near yours.


Oh my is that as unlikely as anything. I have seen Rics gun and it is a nice gun also.

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3DogMike
.400 member


Reged: 29/01/15
Posts: 1468
Loc: Western Slope, Colorado USA
Re: H. Holland .450 Express [Re: rglenz]
      #375268 - 18/03/23 01:14 PM

Quote:

Mike, believe it or not I have no. 2973. The rifle is identical but less engraving and as it came out of India the condition is nowhere near yours.


Now THAT is quite the needle in haystack coincidence!
Too bad we are rather distant from one another, it would be quite the thing to have consecutive rifles together 149 years later.
- Mike

Tony/TH44,
I speculated to myself that this one likely came from Scott or Webley, however did not want to add that to the initial narrative.
I am absolutely "chuffed" that this one survived in such good condition AND so happy that the refresh was carried out by real professionals. My guess is that the work was done in the UK as I have a couple of photos of it that have "the look" of Holts Auction photography so I'm guessing it was in England in the not too distant past.

In Bill Flemings book "British Sporting Rifle Cartridges" he notes that there was a Holland proprietary .450 3 1/4" made by Eley that was loaded with 110 grains powder and a 330 grain bullet.
It will be interesting to see what this one likes when I finally get to take it out. My good fortune that I have a quite wide selection of .45 paper patch and grooved moulds of 300 up to 365 grains to work with.

- Mike

--------------------
"Will Rogers never met a fighter pilot"
- Anon

“Always carry a flask of whiskey in case of snakebite, and furthermore always carry a small snake."
-- W. C. Fields

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CJF
.333 member


Reged: 07/08/17
Posts: 281
Loc: United States
Re: H. Holland .450 Express [Re: 3DogMike]
      #375348 - 21/03/23 02:24 PM

Beautiful rifle! thank you for sharing. Let us know how it shoots!

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93x64mm
.416 member


Reged: 07/12/11
Posts: 4213
Loc: Nth QLD Australia
Re: H. Holland .450 Express [Re: CJF]
      #375363 - 21/03/23 10:29 PM

Now that really is a fancy piece of kit if there ever was one!
Love to see the range report on this ol' gal - I think she'll be full of surprises.
Well done indeed!

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Marrakai
.416 member


Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 3612
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia
Re: H. Holland .450 Express [Re: 93x64mm]
      #375389 - 22/03/23 11:05 AM

Very nice example you have there, Mike.
Everything good and nothing bad.
Add my congratulations to the pile.
Hope the snow is beginning to melt by now!

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au

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CptCurlAdministrator
.450 member


Reged: 01/05/04
Posts: 5290
Loc: Fincastle, Botetourt County, V...
Re: H. Holland .450 Express [Re: Marrakai]
      #375617 - 27/03/23 09:44 AM

A very nice snag, for sure!

The 450 Express was their "do-all" medium cartridge. It will work quite well with the RCBS 330 grain bullet, and the gas check on that bullet is a plus.

Let us know how it.

Congratulations ! !

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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3DogMike
.400 member


Reged: 29/01/15
Posts: 1468
Loc: Western Slope, Colorado USA
Re: H. Holland .450 Express [Re: CptCurl]
      #375872 - 05/04/23 01:17 PM

Quote:

A very nice snag, for sure!

The 450 Express was their "do-all" medium cartridge. It will work quite well with the RCBS 330 grain bullet, and the gas check on that bullet is a plus.

Let us know how it.

Congratulations ! !

Curl


Thank you Tony, Roscoe,
Considering we just had 8" more of snow today my shooting is still some time in the future …..
- Mike

--------------------
"Will Rogers never met a fighter pilot"
- Anon

“Always carry a flask of whiskey in case of snakebite, and furthermore always carry a small snake."
-- W. C. Fields

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