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Morten
.275 member

Reged: 24/04/04
Posts: 89
Loc: Ås, Norway

Holland & Holland's Take down rifle??
#32227 - 28/05/05 09:46 PM

I had a chat with a friend here some days ago where he mentioned the H&H take down rifle and its spesial design. I know that they have rifles in take down verson but have not paied any attention on the patent. I had a quick searsh in the new Holland book but did not find anything about this patent there. Could anyone please inform me about this patent??

RGDS

Morten

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500Nitro
.450 member

Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia

Re: Holland & Holland's Take down rifle?? [Re: Morten]
#32238 - 28/05/05 11:35 PM

Morten

I don't think they had a patent on the take down design - I am not 100%
sure but the ones I have owned did not have patent numbers on them.

I have seen 2 types of Holland take downs.

1. Unscrew Barrel version
2. Lift barrel, action and trigger group out of the stock version.

I have had both in the past, one in 375H&H, one in 275H&H.

I currently own a WR 318 in a take down in the style of
Lift barrel, action and trigger group out of the stock version.

It is very nice indeed.

Hope this helps. Others here may be able to provide more info.

If you get the chance to buy a H&H take down of any sort, try and buy it
as they are really great rifles and always holt their value (at a minimum).

500 Nitro

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rgp
.333 member

Reged: 17/06/04
Posts: 373
Loc: TX & VIC

Re: Holland & Holland's Take down rifle?? [Re: 500Nitro]
#32244 - 29/05/05 12:41 AM

I don't think they could patent it given the simplicity of most takedowns, the number of gunmakers who offer takedowns, and the gunsmiths who modify other guns into takedown configuration.

Any maker who tries to patent the typical takedown system would be trying to secure a patent on a screw and a threaded hole. If there is a lock on it to secure it in position, the locking method was likely stolen from some other industry (example, the "button lock" on some takedown lever actions).

Richard.

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robthom
.224 member

Reged: 01/01/05
Posts: 9
Loc: England

Re: Holland & Holland's Take down rifle?? [Re: Morten]
#32307 - 29/05/05 06:04 PM

Morten,

The Holland & Holland take down rifle I have heard of, bears a close resemblance to the Charles Newton system.

The barrelled action comes out of the stock when a front trigger guard / magazine screw is released. The action tang has a hook type arrangement to fit into the stock somehow.

Dakota make a pleasing take down rifle, although I would be concerned about screw wear. Fred Zeglin of Z-Hat Custom Rifles, Caspar Wyoming also makes a good take down rifle. His is based upon the Bland system, with a shotgun style lever/latch in the forend. This reduces the wear / loosening issue.

--------------------
God is not on the side of the big battalions but
the best shots (Voltaire)

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500Nitro
.450 member

Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia

Re: Holland & Holland's Take down rifle?? [Re: robthom]
#32309 - 29/05/05 07:18 PM

robthom

The Holland "Take out of stock" takedown is released via a BIG Screw in from of the Magazine
and a smaler one at the back of the Trigger Guard. The rear tang of the action slides in under a
piece of metal that is inletted into the stock. The recoil lug slots into a slot which is reinforced
with metal (well mine was !!!).

"although I would be concerned about screw wear."

I don't think they are intended to be taken down and put together all of the time.

The Holland I had was fine and it was made in approx 1912.

Since you mentioned Thomas Bland, you reminded me that I have a 404 Take Down
using the unsrew system - like Holland's. Again, this shows no sign of wear.

Hope this helps.

500 Nitro

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Morten
.275 member

Reged: 24/04/04
Posts: 89
Loc: Ås, Norway

Re: Holland & Holland's Take down rifle?? [Re: 500Nitro]
#32316 - 29/05/05 08:55 PM

Thank you fellas.

By typing the word PAtent is only because that my english is not that good. The thing is that my friend is planning to buld a 275 on a mauseraction with this take out of stock system, If he got it right. And hven asking me about it I did not know any deatails about it.

Thank you very much. does anyone have photoes of one of this rifles???

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robthom
.224 member

Reged: 01/01/05
Posts: 9
Loc: England

Re: Holland & Holland's Take down rifle?? [Re: 500Nitro]
#33341 - 18/06/05 09:17 PM

Thanks for the explanation of the H&H take down system.

I must admit, I have only seen take down rifles on display in H&H's shop in London. I have not handled one, let alone disassembled one. I made my guess from seeing the rifles and comparing it with illustrations in the DeHaas book on bolt action rifles.

I thought it was probably not a good idea to routinely break down and assemble again these systems. But none the less, which do you think is the best?

My guess is a system which does not use threads which can wear etc?

--------------------
God is not on the side of the big battalions but
the best shots (Voltaire)

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NitroX
.700 member

Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39985
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...

Re: Holland & Holland's Take down rifle?? [Re: robthom]
#33356 - 19/06/05 02:17 AM

In reply to:

My guess is a system which does not use threads which can wear etc?

The advice I received when trying to commission a takedown was to avoid the method where the thread is uncrewed and re-screwed. Eventually it will wear.

The best is where the bolt actually locks up into the barrel. And the barrel and receiver are one and removed together. Numerous examples of these include: Dakota; Johannsen etc.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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