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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Rifles

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coll416
.275 member


Reged: 19/02/12
Posts: 82
Loc: Central Queensland
9.3x62 & R17
      #293877 - 15/01/17 07:14 PM

Is anyone reloading the 9.3x62 with R17. I have gotten ridiculous velocities from my FN custom with a 24.0" barrel.

Previously I have used AR2208 (Varget in the US) with very reliable results maxing out at about 2460fps with 286gn Woodleighs.

Using R17 with WLR primers has upped the ante to 2600fps with 286gn Woodleigh & 2500fps with 320 Woodleigh RN. I got some initial data off an online blog by a chap called Bob Mitchell....

Groups are less than 1.0" at 100 yards with both projectiles & primers are just slightly flattened!!


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93x64mm
.416 member


Reged: 07/12/11
Posts: 4213
Loc: Nth QLD Australia
Re: 9.3x62 & R17 [Re: coll416]
      #293910 - 16/01/17 09:06 AM

Coll,
I have the 9.3x64mm & my loads of AR2209 exceed 2600fps somewhat with the 286 Woodies & these are top/max loads in my rifle. My barrel is a full 26" so it will get a bit more steam up as well.
I know every rifle is different, yours might be a freak to do so but it seems WAY too high for a 9.3x62mm to achieve these velocities?
One of the guys here might have access to "Load for a disk" or "Quick load" & check for you if you supply the load.
If you go down this path please start low (drop 10%)& follow normal loading checks, stiff bolt etc; just remember not all primers flatten out when the loads get right up there, beside no one wants to see someone get blown up!
Bob Mitchell does tend to be a bit of a "rev head" - please note that I'm not saying that his loads are not genuine (only safe in his rifle only), but his loads trend towards the very high end in my books.
Take care
93x64mm


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coll416
.275 member


Reged: 19/02/12
Posts: 82
Loc: Central Queensland
Re: 9.3x62 & R17 [Re: 93x64mm]
      #293925 - 16/01/17 01:22 PM

9.3x64'

Thank you for your very good advice, your thoughts on this matter are a reflection of mine and in fact the reason for this post.

I have been reloading since 1976 & consider myself playful. I like to establish the limits & then settle for a safe working load that shoots! I start loading the 9.3x62 in 2004 with fireformed PMC 3006 cases because the Norma stuff was expensive & hard to get those days. I have extensive data using AR2208 (Varget), AR2206H (H4895), AR2206 & a variety of bullets in my Tikka M65 (56.0cm barrel)where I settled on 2400fps with 286gn WoodleighRN & 2500fps with 270gn Speer as my hunting loads.

In the process I established 2450fps as maximum in my old Tikka with AR2208 & the 286gn bullet which is similar to my newer custom FN (60.0cm Walther barrel)which max's at about 2475fps with Norma/PPU cases, AR2208 & 286gn bullet, although the actual powder densities differ some!

My R17 velocities 2600fps with 286gn Woodleigh & 2500fps with 320gn Woodleigh initially frightened me because they had jumped plenty from the previous lighter loading. However after considerable analysis (all of your suggestions)they appear to generate similar pressures to my max AR2208 loads. This has been somewhat confirmed by chronographing the velocities of both loadings together.

Overall, I am confident I have gained at least 100fps on my previous working loads which reflect Hodgdon & ADI data!

The original goal was to get a powerful 320gn load (maybe 2400fps Woodleigh WCRN) to hunt feral cattle & buff. I had fallen short with AR2208 & could not fit enough AR2209(H4350) in the case.


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93x64mm
.416 member


Reged: 07/12/11
Posts: 4213
Loc: Nth QLD Australia
Re: 9.3x62 & R17 [Re: coll416]
      #293961 - 17/01/17 07:41 AM

Coll416,
I got a mate to run to check on your load, to get 2600fps in a 9.3x62 if using Alliant R17 & 286gn Woodleighs you would be WAY over the recommended maximum of 56K psi - something like 72K psi!
It also proposes about 106% which would be a very compressed load as well.
I'm not say it doesn't work in your rifle - but to me that's just too hot mate!
Never had the chance to use Woodies on anything yet, the 270gn Speers are accurate, good on pigs at lower velocities about 2200fps - drills through them!

Myself been reloading since very early 80's, a slow & steady process in learning & a very long way to go yet for me before I'm starting to get half decent!
Watch your brass mate, check for case separations after every shot.
Stay safe!
93x64mm


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coll416
.275 member


Reged: 19/02/12
Posts: 82
Loc: Central Queensland
Re: 9.3x62 & R17 [Re: 93x64mm]
      #293979 - 17/01/17 01:29 PM

9.3x64,

Thanks once again for your concern. Believe me, I was very concerned when I shot this data because it is well outside both my expectations & my comfort zone. I spoke at length by phone to a more learned colleague before finally acknowledging that R17 can add plenty to the 9.3x62's historical performance. Just to clarify:

- I don't think my gun is special (24" Walther barrel with standard freebore) which provides about 30fps faster loads than my old Tikka M65 using AR2208
- I believe the 9.3x62 can be loaded to similar pressures to the 30-06 family cartridges without compromise in modern & strong firearms
- I know it ain't a 9.3x64

I was aiming for a 320gn load at near to 2400fps to get a POI close to my 286gn load using my open sights. Also I was hoping for a lower pressure 286gn load of 2450-2500fps, both goals based upon online data researched from reputable publishers. My AR2208 loads get hot at 2460fps in my FN'98.

Performance from my '62 with 286gn at 2400fps has proven excellent on pigs up to brumbies. I thought a 320gn bullet at 2350-2400fps would improve the '62's ability to 'stop' scrub bulls & buff based upon greater penetration/wound channel.

I bought some R17 & worked up loads from a safe starting point adding 1.0gns at a time before reaching my max which I shared previously. Below are my observations:

1. slightly flattened primers/ no excessively loose primer pockets
2. Bolt lift normal
3. recoil & muzzle blast normal
4. excellent 100m accuracy - three shots touching (286gn) 320gn - 1.2"
5. 18fps deviation for 5 shots chrono' 286gn load @ 2600fps 27 fps deviation for 320gn load@ 2500fps
6. Less twisting/torquing of the rifle in my hands than with AR2209 loads (unsure of what this means but AR2209 loads torque much more than AR2208 loads)
7. Only 20fps variation between summer & winter chrongraphed velocities
8. my maximum R17 loads were right on compression eg. filled to base of neck of case, these loads showed a bit higher velocity increase than previously worked up loads so I stopped the increase!


I love the 270gn Speer for most of my hunting & find it to be very reliable beyond the closer shots,this bullet is my preferred longer range bullet because it readily expands out to at least 270.0m (recovered bullet). I have killed many pigs, brumbies & 2 out of 2 bulls with this bullet! The bulls were running away at less than 50.0m so I shot through the ribs to avoid bigger bones, both dead inside 50.0m!

I do appreciate your take on my experiences I am learning as I go. Whether I need or want this extra power R17 provides is 'up in the air', I had nothing better to do at the time!

PS. I chose not to share actual loads however they are very similar to previously published loads.


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93x64mm
.416 member


Reged: 07/12/11
Posts: 4213
Loc: Nth QLD Australia
Re: 9.3x62 & R17 [Re: coll416]
      #293988 - 17/01/17 06:43 PM

Coll, well mate we learn something every day!
I have a mate who's just about to reload for a 9.3x62, so I'll get him to look at Alliant R17 & see what he can do with his.
Mind you he doesn't want hot loads but he may change his mind after this!
Sounds like you've hit the accuracy node on yours as well at the top load - frankly if it works & is accurate then keep that one!
If you feel the need to share your load then please do so.
Something I think we should all do here as a reference to all with the cartridge as the reference in a reloading section!

Might be lucky to get out this year with more work on the family house & my youngest building as well - so you can guess where all my weekends etc will end up!
Best of luck with hunts in future matey, hope we cross paths somewhere down the track!
Kind regards
93x64mm


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Wanabebwana
.300 member


Reged: 11/01/13
Posts: 221
Loc: Canada
Re: 9.3x62 & R17 [Re: 93x64mm]
      #294023 - 18/01/17 03:15 PM

Here's what I have. Several loads with R17 in 23" Ruger.

http://www.realguns.com/loads/93x62mm.htm


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coll416
.275 member


Reged: 19/02/12
Posts: 82
Loc: Central Queensland
Re: 9.3x62 & R17 [Re: Wanabebwana]
      #294762 - 04/02/17 12:14 PM

Fella

I used the real guns data combined with Bob Mitchell's data to settle on my loads. I will continue to use AR2208 as my primary powder & use R17 for the 320gn pills.


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Oelofse
.224 member


Reged: 07/05/20
Posts: 3
Loc: South Africa
Re: 9.3x62 & R17 [Re: coll416]
      #340850 - 07/05/20 03:06 PM

Coll,

I have been reading about the velocities reachable with RL-17 and a 9.3x62.

I want to try and get to 2400fps with the 320gr Woodleighs. Please tell me your recipe.

Start Load & Valocity
What increments did you jump and valocity?

I plan to start at about 58gr and then work my way up in .5gr increments.


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Oelofse
.224 member


Reged: 07/05/20
Posts: 3
Loc: South Africa
Re: 9.3x62 & R17 [Re: coll416]
      #340851 - 07/05/20 03:08 PM

Quote:

Fella

I used the real guns data combined with Bob Mitchell's data to settle on my loads. I will continue to use AR2208 as my primary powder & use R17 for the 320gn pills.




Have you maybe got some of this data on hand. I see the real guns website is not operational.


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