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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Rifles
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Nick_Adams
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Reged: 20/12/03
Posts: 148
Loc: USA
Grandpa's "custom" 30-40 Krag
      #245930 - 17/04/14 10:49 AM



Have had this for a while now. Inherited it from an old uncle who, like me, was one of the shooters in the family. Dad was too, though mostly .22s and shotguns. Dad's heirloom to me was Grandpa's Belgium Browning Sweet-16, made the Febuary of the year before I was born. I've hunted with it quite a bit it (squirrels, doves & pheasants), but when Dad couldn't get out anymore he gave it to me for keeps.

I know more about that 16ga than I do about this unusual 30-40 Krag or who customized it. Most "sporterized" Krags I've ever seen were carved-up, gun-show crapola.

As far as I've checked, there's no family knowledge or records on this rifle, other than the uncle stating that gramps "shot a deer with it every year" for as far back as he can remember.

Some very interesting custom features on this Krag too ...

For starters, the stock is sleek and light-weight. It has a Schnable forend with a barrel-banded front sling swivel that drops thru the stock itself just back of the forend. It has a steel buttplate with a very fine checkered pattern - maybe off a Winchester shotgun (?).

Sight set-up consists of (1) a Lyman barrel-banded front sight (the pinned blade has a now-faded white dot) and (2) a matching Lyman rear peep sight. The rear sight is removable, after depressing a button on the top, which then allows you to take out the bolt to clean the barrel. When you re-install the sight it does return to zero.



C'mon, guys, let's get serious ... When's the last time you saw a checkered grip cap on a "sporterized" Krag?



... or knurling on the knob of a Krag's bolt handle?



The only items I know that are not original are the stock pack and the old leather sling the uncle added.



Yes, I've shot it and it groups about 2MOA @ 100yds with factory Remington 180grainers. Certainly good enough for minute-of-deer ... or moose, or elk, et al. With handloads that it likes, which includes using bullets like 165gn Spitzers, and Hornady's 170gn RN and 220gn RN slugs, it will stay closer to 1.5 MOA. But that's with me behind the trigger - a better iron-sight shooter, better groups, ... yadda, yadda. This shooting was with jacket bullets, by the way; haven't tried cast loads.

Anyway, ... will accept all speculations as to who this Krag's custom 'smith might've been.

As I said, no one on my end knows, and there's no markings on it anywhere that I could see that might reveal who took a perfectly good military Krag rifle and turned it into a work of art.



Edited by Nick_Adams (18/04/14 01:50 AM)

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Iowa_303s
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Reged: 22/03/13
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Re: Grandpa's "custom" 30-40 Krag [Re: Nick_Adams]
      #245935 - 17/04/14 11:18 AM

Nick,
You may never figure out who did the work but you have a very nice rifle with family ties that you should be very proud of.
Very good caliber for all the above mentioned species of game.
Thanks for sharing with us.

--------------------
Matt

formerly known as Iowa_303

"Once your reputation is ruined you can live your life quite freely."

"Enkelkinder über alles"

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Ruger_450
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Re: Grandpa's "custom" 30-40 Krag [Re: Iowa_303s]
      #245955 - 17/04/14 10:44 PM

It looks very R.F. Sedgley to me. The Schanble, the barrel band swivel, the Winchester steel buttplate, the bbl band front sight are all Sedgley earmarks. Usually Sedgleys were marked on the top of the barrel R.F. SEDGLEY PHILI PA and the caliber was marked followed by an S in a circle just forward of the receiver ring on the left side.

Look for a serial # inside the fore end and in the channel in the rear of the receiver the sear rides back in.

Sedgley was very tight with Winchester and was, insofar as I know, the only custom maker to use their barrels and distinctive WRA buttplate.

Here is a "one off" standard grade Sedgley Springfield sporter built for my Grand-Father on a rod bayonet action in 9.3x62. Quite a few similarities to your Krag. Neat rifle !

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Deutsche_Vortrekker
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Re: Grandpa's "custom" 30-40 Krag [Re: Ruger_450]
      #245957 - 17/04/14 11:26 PM

Certainly an outstanding rifle and excellent workmanship ,and more importantly a rifle with family history .As for the Krag it has never been my fortune to have owned one....yet. In all my years of discussing weapons I have never come across a shooter or hunter who had a bad word to say about the Krag ;they are that highly thought of. Thank you for sharing this.

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Nick_Adams
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Reged: 20/12/03
Posts: 148
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Re: Grandpa's "custom" 30-40 Krag [Re: Ruger_450]
      #245963 - 18/04/14 01:48 AM

Appreciate all the responses.

Ruger450: Thanks for the Sedgley tip. I'll check the areas you indicated for those markings.

Loved the pics of your Grandfather's rifle too. Thanks!

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Sville
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Re: Grandpa's "custom" 30-40 Krag [Re: Iowa_303s]
      #245967 - 18/04/14 02:35 AM

Quote:

Nick,
You may never figure out who did the work but you have a very nice rifle with family ties that you should be very proud of.
Very good caliber for all the above mentioned species of game.
Thanks for sharing with us.



Agree!

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Nick_Adams
.300 member


Reged: 20/12/03
Posts: 148
Loc: USA
Re: Grandpa's "custom" 30-40 Krag [Re: Ruger_450]
      #245978 - 18/04/14 09:58 AM

Ruger 450:

Checked the external areas you mentioned and no markings seen. The barrel has no caliber designation on it, nor other markings although I'm sure it's not a Krag military barrel, because those had holes drilled on top for the rear buckhorn-style sight. None on this one, nor any indication of filled holes.

I've read that some custom Krag rifles, as well as the sporterized Krag carbines that were turned out at one of the U.S. armories for the NRA in the 1920s & 30s, were re-barreled with 1903 Springfield barrels. Don't know that for a fact, but it was mentioned in one of the Krag reference manuals.

Maybe Gramp's rifle is one of those, or has a Winchester .30 Gov't barrel but, again, no marks either way.

I'll check the other areas when I have time. Thanks!

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pjaln
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Reged: 08/06/06
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Re: Grandpa's "custom" 30-40 Krag [Re: Nick_Adams]
      #245995 - 18/04/14 11:17 PM

nick,,,its probably just a one off from an whom we,ll never know ,,sedgley or any other gunsmith would not have used philips screws on anything showing ,,the bolt knob checkering and the wood checkering are nice but not up to par with the better known craftsmen of the day the gun shows european influence and probably built after ww2,,ive have owned a few krags and springfields ,,too bad 2 of the foremost authorities arent with us anymore rip....mike petrov and mark benenson ....paul

Edited by pjaln (18/04/14 11:17 PM)

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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
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Re: Grandpa's "custom" 30-40 Krag [Re: pjaln]
      #246010 - 19/04/14 05:47 AM

Very nice.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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Ruger_450
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Re: Grandpa's "custom" 30-40 Krag [Re: NitroX]
      #246014 - 19/04/14 09:27 AM

BTW Krag rear sights were screwed on. See:

http://www.kragcollectorsassociation.org/kca/Photos/riflesights.JPG

I'd opine the gun is very American not Euro at all. The Sedgley folks were not H&H craftsmen and many Sedgleys were a bit crude in the realm of custom rifles. They were also a lot cheaper than rifles from G&H and like shops.
The only thing that is not Sedgley is the checkering but who knows when that was done or recut.

No Euro gunmaker would have WRA buttplates.

The receiver sight is much newer than the rifle and probably replaced either the barrel mounted rear sight or earlier receiver sight.

This is a matched pair of the most expensive Sedgly Springfields made in 1933-35. The engraving was crude, the stocks nothing special (right bolt left cheekpiece) for a deluxe grade gun and the checking had many overruns. Thanks to the WRA barrels (257 Bob and 30-06) they were both MOA rifles even with the suitcase handle scopes.

Note the barrel band and front ramp sight.




Sedgley and other gunmakers of that era did do some amazing stuff. Imagine taking a 30-06 Springfield shortening the action to 22 Hornet, altering the bolt face for the rimmed tiny Hornet, building a single stack magazine within the 03 magazine and fitting a M54 Hornet barrel to it !
Then a few gold inlays to pay tribute to the Hornet's inventors.
A real piece of art. (The out of focus circle in the TG is a solid gold 22 Hornet case head !)

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pjaln
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Re: Grandpa's "custom" 30-40 Krag [Re: Ruger_450]
      #246048 - 20/04/14 05:29 AM

i dont think it was built in europe ,, im thinking someone who landed her after the war built it....paul

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Nick_Adams
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Re: Grandpa's "custom" 30-40 Krag [Re: Nick_Adams]
      #246211 - 22/04/14 10:36 PM

Just got back from Easter out of town.

Thanks for the follow-up comments & pics.

Yes, I'm thinking this Krag is definitely an American "one-off" custom job, as someone said, but it surely has a Sedgley-pattern to it.

Looked everywhere but no markings as to the 'smith's identity.

Also, I once had a "sporterized" Krag carbine that had the 1901-style rear sight - which is the one on the top left of the picture at the link Ruger450 provided. It had screws fore & aft to anchor it, but the screw holes extend into the barrel. There are no similar holes (or filled holes) on my Krag rifle where such a sight would've been, which makes me think it's either an unused 1903 barrel that was rechambered or a commercial .30cal Winchester barrel - but whichever, I don't think it's a Krag mil barrel.



Edited by Nick_Adams (22/04/14 10:40 PM)

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tinker
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Re: Grandpa's "custom" 30-40 Krag [Re: Nick_Adams]
      #346639 - 09/11/20 01:56 AM

I'm returning this to circulation.
We all need some Krag in our lives this week.

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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FrankS
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Re: Grandpa's "custom" 30-40 Krag [Re: tinker]
      #349079 - 10/01/21 07:17 PM

I've been through the NRA Gunsmithing book and they do mention using a 03 barrel as a replacement for the Krag. However after cutting off the chamber end and facing it off you're only left with about 20-22" of barrel left. So if your barrel falls within 20-22" could be better than an even chance they the barrel is from an 03 Springfield. In any event very fine looking custom Krag. Thanks For sharing. Frank

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Homer
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Re: Grandpa's "custom" 30-40 Krag [Re: FrankS]
      #349105 - 11/01/21 07:21 PM

Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm Donuts!

D'oh!
Homer

--------------------
"Beware the Lolly Pop of Mediocrity,
Lick it Once and You Will Suck Forever"

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Nick_Adams
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Reged: 20/12/03
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Re: Grandpa's "custom" 30-40 Krag [Re: FrankS]
      #351060 - 03/03/21 05:17 AM

Quote:

I've been through the NRA Gunsmithing book and they do mention using a 03 barrel as a replacement for the Krag. However after cutting off the chamber end and facing it off you're only left with about 20-22" of barrel left. So if your barrel falls within 20-22" could be better than an even chance they the barrel is from an 03 Springfield. In any event very fine looking custom Krag. Thanks For sharing. Frank



Wow, I should've gotten back to this board sooner. Been away for a while. I didn't realize this old thread was still active.

Hi FrankS and group:

The barrel on my Gramp's Krag measures out right at 23.25". I'm now inclined to think it's the original Krag barrel that was cut back when it was customized.

Still shoots great and balances and handles nicely in the field too. Took it to deer camp last November, along with my handloads using 220gn Hornady RN SPs over Varget. I keep them to the Krag's original velocity spec of 2000fps. Even though those 'paper ballistics' seem mild, that 220gn RN slug hits like the Hammer of Thor on deer. Probably would be similarly terminal on hogs, but I haven't yet had the opportunity.

Going forward, I'm planning to transition over to loading coated 215gn RN hard casts due to the cost of components, even notwithstanding the scarcities of late.

--------------------
________________________________

Remember ...

"Only accurate rifles are interesting."

.300 H&H.


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Ripp
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Re: Grandpa's "custom" 30-40 Krag [Re: Nick_Adams]
      #351061 - 03/03/21 05:21 AM

Quote:

Quote:

I've been through the NRA Gunsmithing book and they do mention using a 03 barrel as a replacement for the Krag. However after cutting off the chamber end and facing it off you're only left with about 20-22" of barrel left. So if your barrel falls within 20-22" could be better than an even chance they the barrel is from an 03 Springfield. In any event very fine looking custom Krag. Thanks For sharing. Frank



Wow, I should've gotten back to this board sooner. Been away for a while. I didn't realize this old thread was still active.

Hi FrankS and group:

The barrel on my Gramp's Krag measures out right at 23.25". I'm now inclined to think it's the original Krag barrel that was cut back when it was customized.

Still shoots great and balances and handles nicely in the field too. Took it to deer camp last November, along with my handloads using 220gn Hornady RN SPs over Varget. I keep them to the Krag's original velocity spec of 2000fps. Even though those 'paper ballistics' seem mild, that 220gn RN slug hits like the Hammer of Thor on deer. Probably would be similarly terminal on hogs, but I haven't yet had the opportunity.

Going forward, I'm planning to transition over to loading coated 215gn RN hard casts due to the cost of components, even notwithstanding the scarcities of late.



GOOD to have you back.. NICE rifle BTW..Congrats..

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

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Nick_Adams
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Reged: 20/12/03
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Re: Grandpa's "custom" 30-40 Krag [Re: Ripp]
      #351064 - 03/03/21 08:08 AM

Thanks, Ripp!

--------------------
________________________________

Remember ...

"Only accurate rifles are interesting."

.300 H&H.


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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
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Re: Grandpa's "custom" 30-40 Krag [Re: Nick_Adams]
      #351076 - 04/03/21 12:35 AM

Nick,

Good to see a 2003 member back!

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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tinker
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Re: Grandpa's "custom" 30-40 Krag [Re: NitroX]
      #351077 - 04/03/21 02:10 AM

Quote:

Nick,

Good to see a 2003 member back!



I second this.
Welcome back!

Also - let's see more of that Krag.


--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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