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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Rifles
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458Win
.333 member


Reged: 15/12/06
Posts: 340
Loc: Alaska
Mystery 22 Hornet rifle
      #239220 - 13/12/13 03:26 PM

A dealer here in Alaska has this rifle he is selling and neither of us has any idea of what it is. It appears to be very well built and stocked - although the stock has a serious crack down the side of the forend that has been repaired .
It is a 22 Hornet and the bolt handle appears to be the only locking lug









--------------------
Anyone who claims the 30-06 is ineffective has either never used one - or else is unwittingly commenting on their marksmanship
Phil Shoemaker
www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com

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458Win
.333 member


Reged: 15/12/06
Posts: 340
Loc: Alaska
Re: Mystery 22 Hornet rifle [Re: 458Win]
      #239221 - 13/12/13 05:49 PM

I have received PM's and info from other forums that the rifle is a ZiDi 5.6x32 - which is how the clip is marked and then I found a factory version made in 1930 by Ziegenhahn & Diem.
They were making olympic quality target rifles then and are still building the top end Kreighoff double rifles and shotguns.
Thanks to all

--------------------
Anyone who claims the 30-06 is ineffective has either never used one - or else is unwittingly commenting on their marksmanship
Phil Shoemaker
www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com

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tinker
.416 member


Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada
Re: Mystery 22 Hornet rifle [Re: 458Win]
      #239223 - 13/12/13 06:08 PM

Neato!

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Even
.300 member


Reged: 28/12/12
Posts: 175
Loc: Canada
Re: Mystery 22 Hornet rifle [Re: tinker]
      #239225 - 13/12/13 08:30 PM

Attractive little rifle.

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Rule303
.450 member


Reged: 05/07/09
Posts: 5086
Loc: Woodford Qld
Re: Mystery 22 Hornet rifle [Re: Even]
      #239228 - 13/12/13 09:53 PM

Certainly looks like a well made rifle. has anybody shot it to see how it performs.

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Deutsche_Vortrekker
.333 member


Reged: 27/04/08
Posts: 449
Loc: From the Kalahari to the USA
Re: Mystery 22 Hornet rifle [Re: Rule303]
      #239234 - 14/12/13 02:00 AM

Buy it if you get the chance .These are great little rifles

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27093
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Mystery 22 Hornet rifle [Re: Deutsche_Vortrekker]
      #239236 - 14/12/13 02:39 AM

As you can see, it's of good quality - nice little rifle.

If loaded similarly to the old .22WCF, ie: cast 38 to 45gr. but with TrailBoss powder instead of black powder, the .22 Hornet makes an REALLY fun grouse gun for head shooting grouse or for training kids to shoot.

BTW Phil - perhaps this little gun, stock shortened for a youngster would make a GREAT first CF rifle for a grandchild, sometime in the future? It appears to be a worthy rifle for just such a project, since it only has the single locking lug.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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fuhrmann
.333 member


Reged: 04/01/05
Posts: 328
Loc: Switzerland
Re: Mystery 22 Hornet rifle [Re: DarylS]
      #239240 - 14/12/13 04:24 AM

Be aware that before WWII the .22 Hornet was not known in Germany.
What was widely used however was the 5,6x35R Vierling which is basically the .22 WCF with a smokeless and hotter load.
The 1940 RWS Handbook says: bullet of 2,55 g, muzzle velocity of 800 m/s from a 60 cm barrel, pressure 2400 at.

The modern RWS / DN book says Hornet cases need some work: sizing, trimming, maybe the rim must be made thinner. And it say a 40 grain .222 Hornady bullet made for the .22 Jet should be used.

Regards,
fuhrmann

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500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Mystery 22 Hornet rifle [Re: fuhrmann]
      #239243 - 14/12/13 04:47 AM


It does look a superb little rifle and beautifully made.

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27093
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Mystery 22 Hornet rifle [Re: 500Nitro]
      #239244 - 14/12/13 06:35 AM

Seems to me, the European load ran around 2,350fps - perhaps 2,450fps, around the same as the "original" smokeless .22 Hornet data ran.

I still maintain, with cast bullets and TB loads, it's an incredible little grouse rifle.

My current .17Ackley Hornet, with jacketed and TB, runs 1,785fps and shoots into 1/4" at 50 yards.

With .22 cal and cast, it should run around 1,400fps at most, but likely in the 900fps to 1,000fps range. Like a rimfire, but CF and capable of more if/when desired.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Mystery 22 Hornet rifle [Re: DarylS]
      #239247 - 14/12/13 06:44 AM


Daryl

What do you mean by

"it's an incredible little grouse rifle."


Are you talking head shooting grouse on the ground ?

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458Win
.333 member


Reged: 15/12/06
Posts: 340
Loc: Alaska
Re: Mystery 22 Hornet rifle [Re: 500Nitro]
      #239250 - 14/12/13 10:35 AM

Found this one on gun broker
http://www.gunbroker.com/Aucti....aspx?Item=371356283

--------------------
Anyone who claims the 30-06 is ineffective has either never used one - or else is unwittingly commenting on their marksmanship
Phil Shoemaker
www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com

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Deutsche_Vortrekker
.333 member


Reged: 27/04/08
Posts: 449
Loc: From the Kalahari to the USA
Re: Mystery 22 Hornet rifle [Re: 458Win]
      #239252 - 14/12/13 12:21 PM

I have a little Brno Zkw 465 Hornet and I believe I use that rifle more than any of my others

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Caprivi
.375 member


Reged: 30/09/08
Posts: 811
Loc: America's Serengeti, Buffalo W...
Re: Mystery 22 Hornet rifle [Re: Deutsche_Vortrekker]
      #239257 - 14/12/13 01:46 PM

Price isn't terrible Phil, very cool, if funds allow, go for it.

--------------------
To live life as it is handed to me from God

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Igorrock
.400 member


Reged: 01/03/07
Posts: 1652
Loc: Finland
Re: Mystery 22 Hornet rifle [Re: Caprivi]
      #239275 - 14/12/13 07:31 PM

Quote:

Are you talking head shooting grouse on the ground ?


500Nitro, that´s very common here in Finland to hunt grouses with small caliber rifle and I could imagine they do that in Canada as well. I normaly use .22 LR with grouse.

--------------------
http://promaakari.wordpress.com/

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Even
.300 member


Reged: 28/12/12
Posts: 175
Loc: Canada
Re: Mystery 22 Hornet rifle [Re: Igorrock]
      #239278 - 14/12/13 08:23 PM

Yep, pretty common in BC and Alberta at least to nip the head off grouse with a .22, or other small, straight shooting caliber.

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500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Mystery 22 Hornet rifle [Re: Even]
      #239279 - 14/12/13 11:15 PM


Thanks.

I didn't know that.

I had a mate who tried to head shoot a quail once when spotlighting, went a bit low and let's say that not much was left of it !!! LOL

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500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Mystery 22 Hornet rifle [Re: 458Win]
      #239281 - 15/12/13 03:01 AM

Quote:

Found this one on gun broker
http://www.gunbroker.com/Aucti....aspx?Item=371356283




Link doesn't work.

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27093
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Mystery 22 Hornet rifle [Re: 500Nitro]
      #239290 - 15/12/13 06:05 AM

Yes - head shots on the ground. It is common to collect 1/2 dozen a day on the way back to camp for lunch, in a good year. This IS BC.

When I lived in South Western Ontario, I never saw a grouse that wasn't flying & they'd get up a good 25 to 35 yards ahead of you. It was exciting and not easy shooting.

I thought my brother was fibbing me, when he told me of shooting grouse in BC with a rifle - until I got out here and found out myself.

I had a 127gr. RN case bullet load for my bother's .356 Winchester, just for grouse, for when he was guiding and driving back to camp with his client for lunch. The client would get to shoot the grouse with the .356, using the truck's hood for a rest. The thick post in the crosshairs gave a 25 yard zero. Willow grouse (ruffies) and Franklin (fool hens) were the quarry.

My .458 2" used a 230gr. .452" Speer with 15gr. AL8 for grouse.

That little Hornet would be a sweet grouse rifle with .22WCF-type Go-Pow loads.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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lancaster
.470 member


Reged: 06/05/08
Posts: 9101
Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...
Re: Mystery 22 Hornet rifle [Re: 458Win]
      #239615 - 20/12/13 07:24 PM

Quote:

I have received PM's and info from other forums that the rifle is a ZiDi 5.6x32 - which is how the clip is marked and then I found a factory version made in 1930 by Ziegenhahn & Diem.
They were making olympic quality target rifles then and are still building the top end Kreighoff double rifles and shotguns.
Thanks to all



Ziegenhahn have all records since 10/1928

"During the Weimar Republic the Firearms Law was tightened and gun registration books were introduced in 1928, these books contain all guns made from 1 October 1928, starting with a rifle No. 427 and hence we can up to this date in continuity trace back what we produced.In the thirties the ‘Zi-Di’ rifle, patented by Alfred was produced jointly with Messrs. Diem of Benshausen who sold these under their name and numbers. The calibre was 5.6 x35R, magazine capacity 5 cartridges. "
http://www.ziegenhahn.de/en/about-us/history/

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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mckinney
.400 member


Reged: 29/01/09
Posts: 1225
Loc: usa
Re: Mystery 22 Hornet rifle [Re: lancaster]
      #239684 - 23/12/13 03:10 AM

Certainly looks like a Zi-Di rifle to me, but maybe a deluxe version or one with a custom stock. I have two of these in 5.6 x 32 and a third in 6.5 x 52. I think the last converts to the US .25 Remington but haven't yet found any vintage ammo to confirm that. All three of my rifles have uncheckered forends and the lines are not as pleasing as the rifle pictured above. They are sweet feeling little rifles.

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