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I've never had a problem when headspacing on the shoulder - therefore I have no idea what "to to tight" means? I have never seen headspace too tight. I have seen 0 headspace and I have seen headspace set for minimum brass + .002" which would not allow some makes of belted brass to be used that was wayyyy sloppy(.012" overlength base to belt).

I set my dies to give a light crush fit on initial chambering, then neck size after that and my brass lasts a long time - in every ctg. I load for, rimmed or rimless, including several belted magnums that also had to be loaded using the shoulder to control headspace.

I don't use low quality brass as there is no need to do so. Can't see a good reason why anyone would want to - not today.

I really don't see what the fuss is all about. I merely noticed a formed shoulder that appeared to be well forward of it's original, unfired position.

Moving this shoulder foreward by firing alone, can weaken the brass becsue it has to stretch to move, then it continures to grow in length with each firing, ultimately sepparating - amybe not in 2 or 6 or 8- maybe the 13th or 14th time - doesn't matter to me, it is still stretching, which makes me have to trim it and I hate trimming brass when it can be avoided, easily.

I merely noted how I prevent that from happening & suggested following those steps would help eliminate case head & body separations. I have had to defend those methods in this thread, ever since.

When I build a wildcat, I make certain the reamer used matches the brass I am going to use, then I chamber it to headspace at 0. There is NO slop - not even .001" slop - 0 - crush fit - bright ring around the shoulder/neck junction on chambering and ejecting when testing die settings. When fired, they come out perfectly shaped - I neck size and never need FL sizing nor do I EVER have to bump the shoulder to allow chambering.

Even with rimmed cases, I headspace on the shoulder - my brass lasts almost indefinitely and does not lengthen enough to need trimming in over 5 firings. My Hornet and Bees, which Ken W. says you cannot stop from stretching every time it's fired, did not need trimming until they'd been fired over 16 times - go figure - perhaps I actually did something right? Ken never got them to last 6 firings, let alone 16 - his always separated - read about it in his books. He couldn't figure it out - have I? I don't know if I have, but I do know I have absolutley no problems with rimmed cases or any others, stretching shot to shot.

Using a belt or rim to control all headspace, is not 'accurate' enough for me. That allows brass to stretch. Once it starts, it continues and shoulders also have to be bumped. That is why I do it the way I do - I am not alone and friends and aquaintances in the same sport along with their 'accuracy' gunsmiths, chamber and load the same way as I do - that's where I learned it. Not my idea, but it works.

Guys say that if I don't need to bump my neck sized brass' shoulder at some point, that my loads are solt loads. I think it's because they fireform brass "as-received" and this stretches the brass when they do, therefore their brass moves foreward every single firing and sooner or later, they have to bump the shoulders as a result.

Same goes for rimmed. If making the brass fit before it is fired works for rimmed wildcats and some rimmed, much -tapered ctgs, why won't it work for the .303 case?

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Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V