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Kapu
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Reged: 12/03/07
Posts: 53
Loc: Finland
Alexander Henry 500/450 3 1/4" BPE
      #119863 - 30/11/08 06:27 PM

Joining for the Henry family with this piece and being damn glad I did, mooses gonna love this one in the bushes



Edited by CptCurl (14/07/10 04:49 AM)

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tinker
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Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada
Re: Alexander Henry 500/450 3 1/4" BPE [Re: Kapu]
      #119865 - 30/11/08 06:35 PM

Wow Kapu-


Great find.
Have you shot it yet?


Have fun on the Moose with that one!




Cheers
Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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CptCurlAdministrator
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Reged: 01/05/04
Posts: 5290
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Re: Alexander Henry 500/450 3 1/4" BPE [Re: tinker]
      #119880 - 30/11/08 11:47 PM

Congratulations! Looks beautiful.

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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philbert
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Reged: 31/12/07
Posts: 45
Loc: INDIANA,USA
Re: Alexander Henry 500/450 3 1/4" BPE [Re: CptCurl]
      #119888 - 01/12/08 12:45 AM

Very nice! What does she Weigh? also how about some pictures of the water table? Bob.

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Marrakai
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Reged: 09/01/03
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Re: Alexander Henry 500/450 3 1/4" BPE [Re: philbert]
      #119890 - 01/12/08 01:19 AM

Welcome to the fold, Kapu. Nothing but the best, I see.

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au

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peter
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Reged: 11/04/07
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Re: Alexander Henry 500/450 3 1/4" BPE [Re: Marrakai]
      #119912 - 01/12/08 06:02 AM

congratulations kapu.

i have seen it and it is a true gem.

it fits right in there with your other guns

peter

p.s. did you recive the mails with pic's

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fraserdouble
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Reged: 06/06/06
Posts: 50
Loc: Australia
Re: Alexander Henry 500/450 3 1/4" BPE [Re: peter]
      #119973 - 01/12/08 10:56 PM

Lovely piece and I am sure Alex Henry rifles will shoot as great as they look.

I have an old double in 500/450 BPE 3 1/4" magnum express ( the name of the calibre alone is enough to get any Brit rifle shooter excited), that I would like to get shooting.

I am aware of Marraki & Tinker's loads using Hogden Varget but I was looking for a 4198 load that has actually been used along the lines of Siefrieds formula. My rifle was regulated for the 270gn load which must have been the hottest magnum of its day.

Has anyone actually developed loads for this case with 300gn jacketed or ~ 270gn -300gn- 350gn cast projectiles?

Any advice would be appreciated.

I have found 500NE 3 1/4" or 470 NE cases simply necked to .450" fit a treat with a short neck like the cases on Tinkers handle.
Fraserdouble

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fraserdouble
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Posts: 50
Loc: Australia
Re: Alexander Henry 500/450 3 1/4" BPE [Re: fraserdouble]
      #120328 - 04/12/08 10:50 PM

Hey Guys, does a nil answer mean that there are no other 500/450 3 1/4"BPE's out there??
Fraserdouble.

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kamilaroi
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Reged: 18/12/04
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Re: Alexander Henry 500/450 3 1/4" BPE [Re: fraserdouble]
      #120368 - 05/12/08 08:46 AM

I have an AH falling block in same but load BP with a starter of smokeless. Graeme Wright has some NFB loads but unsure of which powder.

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fraserdouble
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Reged: 06/06/06
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Loc: Australia
Re: Alexander Henry 500/450 3 1/4" BPE [Re: kamilaroi]
      #120414 - 05/12/08 11:56 PM

kamilaroi,
Thanks for this. Graham's load is in 2208 (Varget) essentially same as Tinker & Marrakai's
I might have to simply use Siefrieds formula and work up my own load.
Fraserdouble

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Anonymous
Unregistered




Re: Alexander Henry 500/450 3 1/4" BPE [Re: Kapu]
      #120520 - 07/12/08 08:12 AM

A lot of great history there, superb find!

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tinker
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Reged: 12/03/05
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Re: Alexander Henry 500/450 3 1/4" BPE [Re: ]
      #120530 - 07/12/08 10:16 AM

Note a couple things on the loads for my Tolley.


For one, there are two different charges engraved on my rifle -- 4-1/2 drams and 5-1/2 drams.

Also, the cartridge that it's built around was *either* a 270gr tubed bullet or a 360gr soft. My guess is that it would work well with either period load.

I've worked with some bullets lighter than the 350, although not anything as light as a 270gr, as the rifle didn't like 300gr softs, and I couldn't find a 270gr with the same length of an original 270gr tubed bullet -- which were long for their weight.


I also have worked with 4198, but ditched it as the Varget load was much more accurate.
Note that my good load includes 21 grains of dacron.
Cases for the rifle discussed here would likely take less, but the point is that it takes quite a bit to fill the case so it's packed firmly. Weigh out 21 grains of dacron as an example to get a sense of how much fiber I'm talking about.


Good success to you with your load development.
My recommendation is to start with Varget and the Hornady #4502 350gr SNRN bullet (that's if your grooves are .458"). Don't use the current Woodleigh 350gr SNRN as it's designed for use in the 458WM and has a harder core and thicker, harder jacket than the Hornady.
Woodleigh has discontinued their 350gr SNRN for the BPE rifles, and that bullet had gotten great praise for this kind of load, but they're gone and the replacement is too tough for these barrels. Careful with that one.




Cheers
Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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bonanza
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Re: Alexander Henry 500/450 3 1/4" BPE [Re: fraserdouble]
      #120535 - 07/12/08 11:07 AM

I own a 500/450 3 1/4" NE and have had excellent results with GW NFB (72 grains of Varget) w/ 350g bullets.



--------------------


"Speak Precisely" G. Gordon Liddy.

"Life is absurd, chaotic and we must define its purpose with our actions" Abert Camus

"I''m the dude playing a dude disguised as another dude."

"Yo! Mr. White"

Edited by CptCurl (14/07/10 04:50 AM)

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fraserdouble
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Re: Alexander Henry 500/450 3 1/4" BPE [Re: bonanza]
      #120573 - 07/12/08 11:52 PM

Guys,

Thank very much, I will work up the GW Varget loads in my rifle & see how it goes. The maker said it was regulated for the 270 gn bullet but as you say, unless & can get a deep hollow point mould to cast a long bullet it probably will not stabilise.

I have already tried some varget loads with the Hornady 300gn HP but they remain about 4'" apart (and with perfect elevation) at 40yds but loads are nowhere up near the GW load.

I will increase these loads but will also try the 350gn Hornadys with Varget.

Love this ctg, easy to shoot but not too many of them around. Mine is ythe only one I have actually seen. (except for your pics).

Appreciate the real world help. Shows just how valuable this forum is.
Fraserdouble

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tinker
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Re: Alexander Henry 500/450 3 1/4" BPE [Re: fraserdouble]
      #120582 - 08/12/08 02:45 AM

Fraserdouble-

I have heard of guys using the hawk bullets, but I've never even held one so I can't comment from my experience.
You might want to give them a try, the jackets are supposed to be very very thin, also there is a Taipan bullet which Marrakai speaks of that would seem to have similarly thin jackets. These thinner jacket bullets might not be the answer for your hunting load though, as Marrakai notes that they come apart like bombs in such game as feral horse or donkey.

Also, beware of my 76 grain load. Of rifles I've seen chambered in this class of bottleneck, my rifle has the biggest powder room of any I've seen. The chambers are unique in that fashion, and the weight of my rifle is more than any other such chambered rifle I've seen too.

How much does your new rifle weigh?
What is the barrel length?
What is the chamber wall thickness, also width of breech face?

Good success to you in your load development.
I suspect you'll find good results with the Hornady/Varget combination.



Cheers
Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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fraserdouble
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Reged: 06/06/06
Posts: 50
Loc: Australia
Re: Alexander Henry 500/450 3 1/4" BPE [Re: fraserdouble]
      #120743 - 09/12/08 09:49 PM

Tinker,
I can answer some of the questions + more.
- bls are 26" standing rear sight and two folding leaves
-H&H underlever rebounding hammers, pistol grip & cheekpiece
-Henry rifleing
-wt is 8lbs 9ozs
14 1/2" pull
Will need to get it out of the safe to measure breech face & chamber thickness etc
Whilst it is 3 1/4" case, it has exactly the same short neck and sharp shoulder as your Tolley.
Fraserdouble

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Yukon577
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Reged: 11/03/08
Posts: 37
Loc: Yukon Territory
Re: Alexander Henry 500/450 3 1/4" BPE [Re: fraserdouble]
      #135254 - 13/05/09 11:53 AM

I have two rifles in 500/450 NE 3 1/4". They are both Field's patent falling block action single shots made up or sold by Scholefield, Goodman & Sons Ltd. They are both from Sealing ships of Canada's east coast around the turn of the 20th century. They are marked .450 Ex. 3 1/4" case 120 powder 365 grain bullet.
I have just cleaned one up and tightened it up to being ready to shoot. I have not yet made up any ammunition of this cartridge. How do I go about forming this ammunition from .500 NE brass? I notice there are some dimensional differences between the .500 NE and the 500/450 such as the rim and base dimensions. I can turn the rims easily enough, but the base dimension seems slightly smaller than the .500NE. Does it matter at all or does it form up well?
I look forward to loading up and shooting these interesting old rifles.
Thanks for any info,
Yukon.

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doubleriflejack
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Reged: 11/11/07
Posts: 352
Loc: Oregon, U.S.A.
Re: Alexander Henry 500/450 3 1/4" BPE/HAWK BULLETS [Re: tinker]
      #135443 - 16/05/09 03:41 AM

Hawk bullets, in most all calibers, use normal, soft, pure copper jackets, rather than a copper alloy, so they are kind to softer old British double rifle barrel steel. These pure copper jackets, on the Hawk bullets, come in various thicknesses, buyers' choice, for different hunting applications, so one cannot say that the Hawk jackets are "thin," unless one purchased the thin ones they offer, as they also offer quite thick jackets too, for large big boned animals. Hawk custom bullets has a website, so one can read all about any of this, and more. For a good number of years, I have used Hawk bullets in many nitro and black powder express double rifles, with good satisfaction---I highly recommend them.

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Kapu
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Reged: 12/03/07
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Loc: Finland
Re: Alexander Henry 500/450 3 1/4" BPE [Re: doubleriflejack]
      #163993 - 14/07/10 12:01 AM

and some more pictures from Sir Henry




































Edited by CptCurl (14/07/10 04:52 AM)

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Watson577
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Reged: 05/03/09
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Loc: Fredericksburg, Virginia USA
Re: Alexander Henry 500/450 3 1/4" BPE [Re: Kapu]
      #164020 - 14/07/10 06:26 AM

Kapu,

Beautiful rifle! Alexander Henry rifles are hard to beat and you have a very nice one. Thank you for sharing these pictures with us.

regards,

Jim

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Ironscot
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Reged: 14/08/07
Posts: 27
Loc: Indian Nation
Re: Alexander Henry 500/450 3 1/4" BPE [Re: Watson577]
      #166119 - 12/08/10 03:25 PM

Dang Kapu! That's like porn in a Imax theater!

There are some sweet sweet shooters movin' round these days.

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underlever
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Reged: 01/02/07
Posts: 164
Loc: N.S.W Australia
Re: Alexander Henry 500/450 3 1/4" BPE [Re: Ironscot]
      #166124 - 12/08/10 06:56 PM

G'day Kapu,
a very nice Henry indeed, but then again is there any other kind ???
Also I noticed it too missed out getting its gauge mark when it went to the proof house. Has anyone seen the gauge mark missing off rifles by English makers of the same era ??
Thanks for the pics,
Underlever.

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Anonymous
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Re: Alexander Henry 500/450 3 1/4" BPE [Re: underlever]
      #168246 - 23/09/10 12:38 AM

Very nice and like the fire blue accents.

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