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lancaster
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Reged: 06/05/08
Posts: 4433
Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...
Re: french connection [Re: lancaster]
      #253344 - 09/09/14 02:58 AM

its time now to make a little inventory with the rifles we have see

serial number 136 8x60S
295 7x57
430 10,75x68
636 10,75x68
682 8x60S
692 8x60S
1303 10,75x68
1465 10,75x68
1498 10,75x68
1866 10,75x68
1940 10,75x68

without number 10,75x68
unknown number 7x57

this are 3 rifles in 8x60S, 2 in 7x57 and 8 rifles in 10,75x68
it seems my first idea that the 10,75 caliber was the rarest variant is not true but on the contrary its the most common caliber. this model was build from 1947(maybe 1946) up to 1951 but it could be parts were made and the rifles were fitted on demand also some years after 1951.

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians


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9.3x57
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Reged: 22/04/07
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Re: french connection [Re: lancaster]
      #253354 - 09/09/14 08:16 AM

Isn't that "minty" rifle a mega-buffed reblue job? I thot all the sporters were dull and some painted black to-boot?

The mil rifles used to be available here for dirt cheap. I've always wanted a sporter as even the mil rifles have a good "feel" to them.

As usual, lanc, thanks for posting.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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lancaster
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Re: french connection [Re: 9.3x57]
      #253395 - 10/09/14 04:07 AM

maybe you are right about reblued but anyway I am happy about every rifle here. with a little work it was possible to find some informations about a dangerous game rifle lost in times before and I hope we will find out more.

if you ever start a sporter project on a mas 36 I have the rear sight and the cool looking frontsight/muzzle break of the 8x60S barrel. you can have it when my 10,75mm barrel arrive

maybe good for a 308 winchester rifle

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians


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Ash
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Reged: 10/05/11
Posts: 1369
Loc: QLd, Australia
Re: french connection [Re: lancaster]
      #253399 - 10/09/14 06:53 AM

636 is back and i've made an offer

Miracle!

--------------------
.


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lancaster
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Re: french connection [Re: Ash]
      #253419 - 11/09/14 03:29 AM

the barrel comes today, still in the original cosmoline
everything goes straight to my gunmaker

strange that this barrel laying around for 64 years till I see it. it was never in an action before just waiting the lord send me to investigate this rifle in detail.

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians


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Ash
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Reged: 10/05/11
Posts: 1369
Loc: QLd, Australia
Re: french connection [Re: lancaster]
      #253436 - 11/09/14 08:33 AM

Excellent! I can't wait to see build progress!

Good news on my end too. I purchased 636. Seller won't ship to Australia so a member here (Larcher) kindly offered to give her a home and deal with the export side of things. Must confess having never bought internationally I am a tad nervous, but will be relieved when it arrives at Larchers. Cheers for that mate *thumbs up*

And thanks Lancaster for alerting me to the rifle.

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.


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larcher
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Reged: 11/01/05
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Loc: Saverne, Alsace, France
Re: french connection [Re: Ash]
      #254148 - 27/09/14 06:43 PM

Hi Ash

I hope that I can register this rifle on tuesday and then ship it should the admin proceed immediately. Otherwise I'd have to wait that the permit be mailed??
I am thoroughly cleaning it and oiling the stock. The blueing is to consider in the future. The upper part of the rubber buttplate is chirped.This rifle isn't rusted, but was coated in packed grease just like wax. I am keeping on cleaning it this saturday afternoon before sending you pictures of it.
kind regards
jb

--------------------
"I don't want to create an encyclopedic atmosphere here when we might be having a beer instead" P H Capstick in "Safari the last adventure."

Edited by larcher (28/09/14 01:47 AM)


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Ash
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Re: french connection [Re: larcher]
      #254153 - 27/09/14 08:55 PM

I owe you a debt of gratitude, kind sir!


I posted the import permit application yesterday (Friday, 26/9/14).
Do you need this scanned and emailed to you for postage?

Cheers JB, I'll buy you a night of beers when you make it back down here!

--------------------
.


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larcher
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Reged: 11/01/05
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Loc: Saverne, Alsace, France
Re: french connection [Re: Ash]
      #254161 - 28/09/14 01:46 AM

Hi Ash

In fact I don't need your application, but it'll be usefull to join it to the french gun registration for a smoother transfer through Australian customs.

It's a pleasure to give a hand, you owe me nothing.

By the by, not a bad idea that I buy shares of Foster previous to land in Australia, the profit margin can cut the costs

--------------------
"I don't want to create an encyclopedic atmosphere here when we might be having a beer instead" P H Capstick in "Safari the last adventure."


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: french connection [Re: Ash]
      #254184 - 28/09/14 03:14 PM

Quote:

Heres a minty

http://www.naturabuy.fr/MAS-10-75x68-item-148631.html

10.75x68, No1498










That is amazing and must hurt a lot to miss out on it.

It sure would make a different rifle for Australia and also get a lot of attention.

What did you buy, ie that is getting sent to Australia?

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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larcher
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Reged: 11/01/05
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Re: french connection [Re: NitroX]
      #254190 - 28/09/14 07:51 PM

HEADSTAMPS and AMMOS with the MAS 676








Edited by NitroX (30/09/14 02:11 AM)


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Ash
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Reged: 10/05/11
Posts: 1369
Loc: QLd, Australia
Re: french connection [Re: NitroX]
      #254199 - 28/09/14 10:19 PM

Interesting, wonder what the solid load is, and if i should pull it and reload myself instead of firing if its a handload?

John, here are the pictures of the one Larcher is providing enormous assistance in helping me bring over (doing the export side of things over there!)
These are pictures he kindly sent me, i must say i like his choice of background!













--------------------
.


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lancaster
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Reged: 06/05/08
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Re: french connection [Re: Ash]
      #255926 - 29/10/14 05:08 AM

here is an advertisment for the Mas 36 sporting rifle in 7x54 by Jean Fournier
the 7x54 is a wildcat made by using the the 7,5x54 military round. more or less a copy of the 7x57 mauser until last year illegal in france.







http://www.tircollection.com/t6184-calibre-mas-fournier

hope to find such paper for the 10,75x68 rifle too

the rifle there looks like an original Mas made gun. maybe Fournier had bought the parts after the end of the production there. this rifle here for sale in france once dont have any checkering and no serial number on the left side.















http://www.naturabuy.fr/Mas-36-7x54-Fournier-item-556700.html

another rifle looks like it have the common serial number of the rifles made at Manufacture d'armes de Saint-Étienne. maybe Fournier got this receiver with the serial number on it.













http://www.naturabuy.fr/Carabine-MAS-36-FOURNIER-occasion-item-606097.html

this Fournier rifle have the typical "JF 154" serial number on the left side above. this is the common way the serial number is locaceted and looks on Fournier made rifles

























http://www.naturabuy.fr/MAS-36-FOURNIER-CALIBRE-7X54-item-381396.html

a Fournier made rifle( number "JFD 915" - giving a hint that 915 of this rifles were made at least) and a 8x60S (common serial number 136)rifle with Sterna stamp side by side







http://www.tircollection.com/t2152-mas-fournier-1075x68

Sterna was another gunmaker who made mas 36 sporting rifles probably by using parts he bought from
Manufacture d'armes de Saint-Étienne. we have seen this stamp before on rifle number 295 and maybe also on number 837 where Sterna was the gunmaker who rechamber the illegal 7x57 into the .284 Winchester.


Edited by lancaster (29/10/14 06:11 AM)


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lancaster
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Reged: 06/05/08
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Re: french connection [Re: lancaster]
      #255938 - 29/10/14 07:13 AM

the more I see ...

here number 1354, typical Mas serial number but 7x54 so made by Fournier
the receicer dont have the peep sight rail on top like the 10,75x68 mm rifle have but the rear sight is completly unique.
http://www.naturabuy.fr/mas-36-fournier-item-1259752.html














found pics of the rifle number 1231 in 7x54 http://s300.photobucket.com/user/WilyB/m...lution.jpg.html, clearly to see the original MAS butt plate. so this was not some look alike and whoever did the work he had the original parts.

so we have now a lot of rifles without the little "JF" serial number above on the left side I thought before being typical for the Fournier rifles in 7x54. witht he big number on the left side under the caliber this rifles looking like every other rifle made at MAS.

this is a similar non standard rifle
number 002 and chambered for the wildcat cartridge 30,284
the rifle have a muzzle break probably for the 8x60S http://www.naturabuy.fr/MAS-36-calibre-30-284-item-854608.html











looks like different parts were mixed for the last two rifle's here

what to think about this now?
-the Mas 36 sporting rifle was made by MAS between 1946/47 and 1951
-Mas made this rifle in 7x57, 8x60S and 10,75x68
-the rifles were not build continuous because higher serial numbers have barrels made in 1947
-after the end in the Manufacture d'armes de Saint-Étienne it seems Fournier and probably Sterna bought the remaining parts on stock and made rifles
- only Fournier rifles are made in 7x54 and its possible he rechamber existing 7x57 barrels
- Sterna rechamber 7x57 barrels in .284 Winchester
- it seems Fournier get a wild mix of parts, some receiver numbered, some not
- the last two rifles here showing that the different parts were used to made unusual combinations

Edited by lancaster (29/10/14 02:48 PM)


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kuduae
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Re: french connection [Re: lancaster]
      #255940 - 29/10/14 08:53 AM

Quote:

but the rear sight is completly unique.








Sako rear sight! My Sako L461, .222 Rem., proofed 1978, came with the same rear sight.


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Daryl_S
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Re: french connection [Re: kuduae]
      #255945 - 29/10/14 10:13 AM

So did M700 Remington rifles.

--------------------
Daryl


"a rifle without hammers, is like a Spaniel without ears" Edward VII


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lancaster
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Reged: 06/05/08
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Re: french connection [Re: Daryl_S]
      #255950 - 29/10/14 02:49 PM

thanks

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians


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lancaster
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Reged: 06/05/08
Posts: 4433
Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...
Re: french connection [Re: lancaster]
      #256570 - 11/11/14 05:22 AM

ok, dont look for this but find it nonetheless
Manufacture d'Armes de St-Etienne catalog, the year is unknown



Courtesy of Alain Daubresse/ www.littlegun.info special thanks


http://www.littlegun.info/arme%20francaise/saint%20etienne/a%20mas%20carabine%20legere%20gb.htm

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians


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lancaster
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Reged: 06/05/08
Posts: 4433
Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...
Re: french connection [Re: lancaster]
      #256949 - 18/11/14 03:54 PM

another piece for the puzzle

a 7x57 rechambered into a 284 Winchester by Aldo Sterna/Annecy serial number 702
http://www.naturabuy.fr/MAS-36-STERNA-Annecy-cal-284W-item-2232019.html



















what I have found is that the 7x57 mauser was legal for some years in france but then outlawed again. for use in the colony's there were never any restrictions anyway. I have the impression the production of this sporting rifle was terminated by MAS probably in 1951/1952. maybe this was done because of new demand by the war in south east asia and the upcoming riots in north africa.

it seems that remaining rifles and parts were sold to Jean Fournier and Aldo Sterna. Fournier bypassed the 7x57 problem with his 7x54 wildcat and Sterna rechambered allways existing barrels into the 284 winchester. every Sterna made rifle till now have "7x57" on the receiver.
there may also some rifle allready be sold when the 7x57 was outlawed again and going back to sterna and fournier for geting a new chamber.

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

Edited by lancaster (18/11/14 03:58 PM)


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lancaster
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Reged: 06/05/08
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Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...
Re: french connection [Re: lancaster]
      #258407 - 30/12/14 11:08 PM

find pics of the FRF1 and FRF2 sniper rifle action showing the difference and similarity to the Mas 36 mother action
its maybe not completly uninterestingly if you try to understand this topic












worked as a hunting rifle http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat....e=0&fpart=4








the FRF2 in 308 Win. is still in use, here last year in Mali


--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

Edited by lancaster (30/12/14 11:09 PM)


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Ash
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Reged: 10/05/11
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Re: french connection [Re: lancaster]
      #258419 - 31/12/14 05:33 PM

This .284 looks nice.



--------------------
.


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lancaster
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Re: french connection [Re: Ash]
      #258422 - 31/12/14 06:31 PM

where did you find it? any chance to get the SN?

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians


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Ash
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Re: french connection [Re: lancaster]
      #258433 - 01/01/15 03:29 AM

It's one you posted above, sorry. Nothing new, just commenting on that particular rifle.
How's your 10.75 coming along?

You are the king if finding wacky. :d

--------------------
.


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lancaster
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Re: french connection [Re: Ash]
      #258571 - 04/01/15 07:09 AM

ok, the scope, scope mount and bipod in the next pics looking horrible but we will try to ignore it and concentrate on the rifle alone.
its a Fournier made rifle in 7x54 with the own serial number 019
http://www.naturabuy.fr/Carabine-MAS-FOURNIER-calibre-7x54-item-2358792.html
in my mind its another example showing that Founier take over the stock of parts, work in progress and rifles. its obvious that Fournier use receiver with an allready existing serial number and without.











here is another Fournier Rifle were the receiver was allready having the Mas serial number 1231. the "4" in "7x54" looks a little bit out of line so maybe changed from original 7x57.
http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?15790-MAS-Mle-1936-Survey-for-the-New-Forum




could be the 7x54 rifles with the Mas serial number were all made by Mas as 7x57 and only rechambered into 7x54 by Fournier to make it legal when the 7x57 was again outlawed for civilians.






Sterna build also such rifles so it seems they both bought the rifles and parts on stock in the Mas factory just when having an order.
rifle no. 136 in 8x60 must have been such a rifle more or less finnished when sterna stamp his name on the receiver and sold it.

this one is in 243 win and its clear Sterna complete the receiver, stock and maybe the barrel with surplus parts for military rifles.

notice the trigger guard is without the safety






the left side of the receiver must have the word "calibre" from the beginning.



Edited by lancaster (04/01/15 07:55 AM)


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lancaster
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Reged: 06/05/08
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Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...
Re: french connection [Re: lancaster]
      #258918 - 11/01/15 02:39 AM

a 300 Savage, probably rebored 7x57 Mauser barrel
SN 776 - thanks Larcher



http://www.naturabuy.fr/mas-36-item-2223085.html

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians


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