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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: excuse me, I bought an assault rifle [Re: lancaster]
      #214768 - 16/08/12 05:00 PM

Quote:



I believe the tommy gun is a gentleman's gun suitable for groose
that's how I imagine the Glorious Twelfth:








Cool photo.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


Edited by CptCurl (08/10/12 01:02 AM)


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lancaster
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Re: excuse me, I bought an assault rifle [Re: NitroX]
      #214839 - 17/08/12 03:13 PM

there is no secret about success. you have internet access and a credit card?
most of the stuff there is realy on stock or will be there in 2-3 weeks:
http://www.johannsen-jagd.de/data_de/katalog_en/katalog.php?navid=2

page 123-130 is brass

complete trustworthy

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians


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lancaster
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Re: excuse me, I bought an assault rifle [Re: lancaster]
      #214876 - 18/08/12 07:04 AM

the homemade bullet sizing die is working
the sierra bullet seems to be very hard when sizing it down by the fact its only 0,08mm : 10,41mm to 10,34mm






before and after




the brass eject excellent in the rifle but I have a problem with the 41 mag shellholder.the brass lose the grip because the rim is turning down from 12,28mm to 11,68mm .
so I cut the groove most modern revolver brass have a little bit deeper till it fits the RCBS No.3 shellholder(8x57)


--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

Edited by CptCurl (08/10/12 01:03 AM)


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mehulkamdar
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Re: excuse me, I bought an assault rifle [Re: lancaster]
      #215273 - 23/08/12 06:57 AM

Lancaster,

Somehow you do manage to find the most interesting old guns. Beautiful old rifle and it would be nice to see how she shoots when you do a range test. I'll look forward to follow up posts on this one.

Good hunting and thanks for sharing.

--------------------
The Ark was made by amateurs. Experts built the Titanic.

Mehul Kamdar


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lancaster
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Re: excuse me, I bought an assault rifle [Re: mehulkamdar]
      #215341 - 24/08/12 04:41 AM

reloading in detail

basic case: 414 supermag Starline
bullet: 210 grains Sierra JHP resized to 10,34mm
primer: S&B large rifle
the brass seems to be made for large rifle primer but the 414 supermag is a handgan round. good for me so I dont have to stock another primer because dont loading large pistol cartridge's.
die set: lee 41 mag carbide die set



the carbide sizing die works perfect



I dont use the lee expander die but expand the case mouth just a little bit with a 357 mag expander. I mean the upper conical part of the RCBS expander that give the case a a good start for plain base bullets...



to prevent this:



powder load comes later...



I use the lee Lee bullet seat die a little bit unorthodox
the next two pic's show how I adjust the die




this way the die have no contact with shell holder



but it works fine and the bullet have a very strong fit in the case. I have unloading three rounds with a Impact Bullet Puller and it need some force to do it.


the max. cartridge lenght in my rifle is +/- 50,2mm so I make the round a little bit shorter





powder load?

this data I have save once:



" From Ideal Handbook No. 38:
250-gr. lead plain base #410426
2400 - 18.0 start 1430 fps - 23.0 max 1700 fps
4227 - 19.0 start 1450 fps - 27.5 max 1850 fps
Unique - 13.7 1550 fps

200-gr. jacketed
2400 - 19.0 start 1595 fps - 24.7 max 2060 fps
4227 - 29.0 start 1965 fps - 31.0 max 2100 fps
SR4759 - 20.0 1525 fps
Unique - 15.2 1785 fps

250-gr. jacketed
2400 - 18.0 start 1430 fps - 23.3 max 1765 fps
4227 - 19.0 start 1445 fps - 27.5 max 1850 fps
SR4759 - 19.0 1425 fps
Unique - 13.7 1525 fps

From Complete Guide to Handloading:
200-gr. SP seating depth 0.217"
2400 - 13.0 - 990 fps
2400 - 19.0 - 1525 fps
2400 - 24.7 - 2060 fps
Unique - 10.0 - 1290 fps
Unique - 15.2 - 1785 fps
4227 - 31.0 - 2100 fps (s/d 0.200")

250-gr. SP seating depth 0.323"
2400 - 11.0 - 720 fps
2400 - 18.0 - 1430 fps
2400 - 23.3 - 1765 fps
Unique - 9.0 - 1090 fps
Unique - 13.7 - 1525 fps
4227 - 19.0 - 1445 fps (s/d 0.300")
4227 - 27.5 - 1850 fps (s/d 0.300")

250-gr. lead (mould not specified) seating depth 0.292"
2400 - 12.0 - 1050 fps
2400 - 15.0 - 1285 fps
2400 - 18.0 - 1480 fps
Unique - 10.0 - 1330 fps

I doubt that the lighter Unique and 2400 loads could cycle the action, but they would save wear and tear on the cases by not launching them into the weeds.

From "The 401 Lives!", H. Bodinson, Handloader's Digest, 12th Ed.

"To make a long story short, #2400, while accurate, proved more dirty than I like in a blowback action. It just never seems to burn completely in any straight-bodied pistol-sized case I have ever loaded. Firing it in the Model 1910 left the action area full of unburned powder particles. IMR-4227, however, worked perfectly. It produced good accuracy, excellent velocity, reliable operation of the 1910 action and was very clean burning."

"Using Bell or Sailer (note: made from .35 Remington case) brass trimmed to 1.50 inches, the three brands of available jacketed bullets seated to an overall cartridge length of 2 inches, IMR-4227 powder, and Remington 9½ primers, my final factory duplication loads turned out to be the following:
200 -gr. jacketed bullet
29.0 grs. IMR-4227 / 2040 fps
250-gr. jacketed bullet
27.0 grs. IMR-4227 / 1880 fps "

it was not realy a big help! I found a load for the 41 mag with a 220 grains lead bullet and 16,3 grains N 110. that's a powder I allways try to have at home and so decided to start with 18 grains and go up to 27 grains. was in a indoor target range yesterday where I try the rifle at 25 meter the first time. to make a long story short. the rifle eject the fired case with 18 grains but did not reload the next from the magazin. with 19 grains it works properly but I go higher up to the 24 grains load. dont had the feeling this was maximum but the brass comes out of the self loading action show's more wear and tear with every grain more. so a 20 and 21 grains load is now under research.

a group showing all 7 loads 18 to 24 grains
I think the two groups are in reality one because they have a very bad light on this range where you siting more or less in the darkness and only the target gets light. I had make sometimes a mistakes with the iron sight's. the rifle shoot's straight but high and we will see what happen at 50 meter.








fired brass





maybe it help someone with such a wonderful vintage semi auto but everything at own risk

the 401 WSL is listed as a rimmed cartridge in fact it is one of the rare semi rimmed cases like the 32 ACP/ 7,65 Brow I load for my PPK. a case desigh that did not realy survive outside of some heavy machine canon's. my other strange round the 11,2x60 Schüler with the rebated rim was a better idea it live 's in cartridges like 50 beowulf, 50 AE, 458 Socom. 45 Blaser and many more





Edited by CptCurl (08/10/12 01:04 AM)


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lancaster
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Re: excuse me, I bought an assault rifle [Re: lancaster]
      #215502 - 26/08/12 04:56 AM

rifle was on the range again today, my son and a friend make 90 shot without a problem. action work and feet like a clock. definitely louder and more recoil than a G3 in 7,62 nato
this was a typical target with 5 rounds ( 20 grains N 110)at 50 meter




drawback is the rifle become hot very quick(after 5-10 rounds) just to much power packed into this little round. must say now that my first impression when I got this its only a toy. this is true but its a toy for real man

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

Edited by CptCurl (08/10/12 01:04 AM)


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fuhrmann
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Re: excuse me, I bought an assault rifle [Re: lancaster]
      #215530 - 26/08/12 05:42 PM

What is the difference between a boy and a man?
---
The toys get more expensive!!

Congratulation to yoour new toy, this is a nice one!
Fuhrmann


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: excuse me, I bought an assault rifle [Re: fuhrmann]
      #215588 - 27/08/12 02:45 AM

Nice and accurate.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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rigbymauser
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Re: excuse me, I bought an assault rifle [Re: NitroX]
      #215597 - 27/08/12 03:41 AM


Great little rifle you have there Lancaster.

I have in a Handloaders Digest a 4 or 5 page artical regarding the .401WCF which I always read when this book gets on top of the pile. The author of the artical call the 1910 a "Blammer". Here in Denmark actually a 401WCF has turned up on Lauritz.com this year. A blast from the past for sure..:LOL

J.


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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: excuse me, I bought an assault rifle [Re: rigbymauser]
      #217737 - 08/10/12 01:05 AM

Lancaster,

That is a great rifle, and you have done a brilliant job of making ammunition for it. I'm envious of your new "assault rifle."

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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DarylS
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Re: excuse me, I bought an assault rifle [Re: NitroX]
      #217738 - 08/10/12 03:04 AM

Me too, that would be a fun gun to play with, experiment with and use for deer, pigs or maybe even an 18 month old moose in the bush. It would certainly do the job.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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lancaster
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Re: excuse me, I bought an assault rifle [Re: DarylS]
      #222881 - 04/01/13 06:27 PM

last time I stopped with the question if its possible to make bullets for the 401 WSL with improvised equipment at home.
ok, lets try it. only once fired 9mm Parabellum brass for free is worth the troubel. it measure +/- 9,89mm at the base so I was trying to expand the case body at least over 10,34/.407

9mm parabellum brass
RCBS 9mm neck expander
home made neck expander


like before
RCBS 375 NE2,5" neck expander in the 9mm para die


my homemade 407 swaging die
the 9mm para brass is running first time through it


124 grains 8mm bullet ready to load
was the best I had at home! 9mm bullet cast from pure lead would be much better choice



and back from meeting the famous rockchucker


the simple homemade tool
made with a 10,5mm drill


sized a second time and ready to load. a dummy round works fine in the action


we will see if its able to hit something. worth the trouble? I dont now but at least I can become independ.

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

Edited by CptCurl (04/06/13 08:26 PM)


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Igorrock
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Re: excuse me, I bought an assault rifle [Re: lancaster]
      #222893 - 04/01/13 09:57 PM

Very interesting bullet !

--------------------
http://promaakari.wordpress.com/


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DarylS
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Re: excuse me, I bought an assault rifle [Re: Igorrock]
      #222909 - 05/01/13 02:20 AM

Ctg case bullets are fun to play with and can be very effective.
Pure lead cores are MUCH easier to cold form.
Well done.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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lancaster
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Re: excuse me, I bought an assault rifle [Re: DarylS]
      #224260 - 25/01/13 05:53 AM

when searching for something completly different I come to this site http://bobshellsblog.blogspot.de/search?...p;by-date=false
and stumble over this pic



"Core mold can be adjusted for weight"

I had seen this before once but forget it. what for a brilliant design and easy to made mould if you have a lathe(I do). will make it for casting 9,5mm core's.

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

Edited by CptCurl (04/06/13 08:27 PM)


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Caprivi
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Re: excuse me, I bought an assault rifle [Re: lancaster]
      #224276 - 25/01/13 02:12 PM

Very cool project lancaster. I like these bullets made from spent cases, very innovative. Inspiring.

While looking for a source for my 9.3x57 I found a company, NOE, making good looking bullet molds at attractive pices, with nice options as well as proper accessory tools.

NOE Bullet molds
http://noebulletmolds.com/orders/catalog/index.php

Oh' duh' they make a few .401 molds.

--------------------
To live life as it is handed to me from God


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AkMike
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Re: excuse me, I bought an assault rifle [Re: Caprivi]
      #224280 - 25/01/13 03:17 PM

For regular casting check out AccurateMolds.com . Tom is very fast and inexpensive.

I've shot jacketed wullets thta have the jacket formed with spent 22 rimfires. They worked fine and I'm sure these 9mm's will too.

--------------------
"When you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing; when you see that money is flowing to those who deal not in goods, but in favors; you may know that your society is doomed." Ayn Rand


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Caprivi
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Re: excuse me, I bought an assault rifle [Re: lancaster]
      #224282 - 25/01/13 03:38 PM

Quote:

when searching for something completly different I come to this site http://bobshellsblog.blogspot.de/search?...p;by-date=false
and stumble over this pic



"Core mold can be adjusted for weight"

I had seen this before once but forget it. what for a brilliant design and easy to made mould if you have a lathe(I do). will make it for casting 9,5mm core's.





Here is one on eBay

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Adjustable-Core-...=item5aea4d5ce4

--------------------
To live life as it is handed to me from God

Edited by CptCurl (04/06/13 08:27 PM)


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DBateman
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Re: excuse me, I bought an assault rifle [Re: Caprivi]
      #227076 - 16/03/13 12:36 PM

Nice rifle.

I have always wanted one in .351win ...

Thank you for taking time to post the pics and how its been going.


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texan72
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Re: excuse me, I bought an assault rifle [Re: DBateman]
      #227240 - 20/03/13 02:34 AM

Nice Winchester , I too am guilty of having the same such rifles sorry for the offence


--------------------
http://thegreatmodel8.remingtonsociety.com[/

John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Edited by CptCurl (04/06/13 08:28 PM)


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lancaster
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Re: excuse me, I bought an assault rifle [Re: texan72]
      #227244 - 20/03/13 03:54 AM

please feel free making a thread about the remingtom model 8
I would enjoy it


--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians


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texan72
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Re: excuse me, I bought an assault rifle [Re: lancaster]
      #227249 - 20/03/13 05:08 AM

I would but theres better stuff on them @
http://thegreatmodel8.remingtonsociety.com
which I started back in 2009, and since
passed over to Cam Woodall
but I had a couple articles I did on there.
But I still own a few and hunt with a 107 yr old Model 8
and 60yr old Model 81 every year and one always goes whenever
I hunt.

--------------------
http://thegreatmodel8.remingtonsociety.com[/

John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Edited by 505texan (20/03/13 05:09 AM)


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9.3x57
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Re: excuse me, I bought an assault rifle [Re: lancaster]
      #227250 - 20/03/13 05:17 AM

Another super thread from lancaster!!

Check this out;

http://www.imageevent.com/willyp/firearmsalbums/usww1aefused1907winchester351sl

The bit about the Win SLR's being used as the conceptual ancestors of the US .30 Caliber carbine has been repeated a lot and makes sense. Tho not exactly light, they certainly have a handiness about them that makes their use as a "PDW" pretty second nature.

I've always thought a modernized .351 round in a sized-up Williams-designed Carbine would have earned the Carbine more respect than it got by some.

Regardless, the .351 was indeed used by the French in WW1 {as were some Model 8 .35's} and the .351 has also been stated to have been common in the prison systems in various States. I cannot figure if such guns were ever bought in bulk by the Federal system tho. Also, I have read that the .351's were used by BBS/USDA/APHIS/WS's personnel for wolf and coyote control from aircraft but I have not been able to drum up a USDA document proving it.

Great thread, lancaster.

The SLR has a very weird recoil system. Very interesting and sort of overengineered, but seemingly effective.

I am fascinated with the guns lancaster drums up in Europe.

Maybe some day he'll post a thread demonstrating the commonplace existence of the MP40 Maschinenpistole on Western European farmsteads....................



Keep it up, lanc!!

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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lancaster
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Re: excuse me, I bought an assault rifle [Re: 9.3x57]
      #227253 - 20/03/13 05:48 AM

I think you are right about the 351 WSL being the best and most useful of the Winchester self loading rifle cartridges and especially for a PDW rifle. what I never understand is why Winchester choose a .351 bullet diameter when the .357 diameter for revolver bullets was arround for many years.
the real overengineered rifle is the Model 1910 because it was made to compete with the Remingtom Model 8 in 35 Rem but this was not realy possible for a blow back action.
I still looking for pics showing the Winchester self loading rifles for hunting outside of the united states. that the .351 was used for pest control seems possible to me. the Destroyer carbine in 9x23 Bergmann alias 9mm largo was used by spanish park rangers for shooting wolves and this cartridge dont developed more energy than a modern 9mm luger cartridge fired in a rifle.

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians


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texan72
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Re: excuse me, I bought an assault rifle [Re: lancaster]
      #227261 - 20/03/13 06:17 AM

Lancaster, heres a site a friend of mine has lots of Winchester SL guys over there
might help you might not but here it is.
http://vintagesemiautorifle.proboards.com/index.cgi

--------------------
http://thegreatmodel8.remingtonsociety.com[/

John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.


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