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Hubert
.224 member


Reged: 15/03/05
Posts: 37
Loc: Tasmania , Australia
Re: Vintage Scope [Re: NitroX]
      #240366 - 09/01/14 10:57 AM

I have just acquired a complete set of these Vienna mounts on a Kahles Mignon 4x.That includes the front and rear lower bases.
My problem is my gunsmith has never seen these mounts before .
His questions
A-Is there any tension between the front and rear bases when installing the scope on the rifle ?

B-That is , does the scope require a firm push to click on to the front base?

C_Or does the scope click on without tension ? That is , clicks on freely .

D- Uninstalled the front base has a small amount of front and back movement .It seems to me that a tension is required to take up this movement after mounting on a rifle .

E-Thus is the front lower base worn ?Or is this movement normal in uninstalled mount ?

This is a lovely little scope and mounts but its useless if I cant have it mounted correctly .

Any help would be greatly appreciated .
Thanks


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kamilaroi
.400 member


Reged: 18/12/04
Posts: 1803
Loc: sydney, new south wales, Austr...
Re: Vintage Scope [Re: Hubert]
      #240373 - 09/01/14 07:39 PM

Obviously you are not dealing with a gunsmith but a mere backyard plumber.

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lancaster
.470 member


Reged: 06/05/08
Posts: 8725
Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...
Re: Vintage Scope [Re: kamilaroi]
      #240376 - 09/01/14 09:38 PM

hard to say without having the parts in the hand but if mounted the parts have to grip perfect into each other. it means when set the scope on the mount it have to be like they suck into each other.

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians


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4seventy
Sponsor


Reged: 07/05/03
Posts: 2210
Loc: Queensland Australia
Re: Vintage Scope [Re: Hubert]
      #240398 - 10/01/14 08:06 AM

Hi Hubert,
Sorry but I can't offer any advice on the Vienna mount system as I've never handled a rifle with that type of mount.

Usually one of the most important things with any QD scope mount system, is to ensure that there is no stress or flexing of the scope or mounts when the scope is installed.
The mounts should snap into place freely with no looseness or movement, but at the same time with no springing or flexing of the scope tube or the mounts.


It looks like "kuduae" might be able to help with the information you need.

Edited by 4seventy (10/01/14 08:34 AM)


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kuduae
.400 member


Reged: 13/01/10
Posts: 1774
Loc: middle of Germany
Re: Vintage Scope [Re: 4seventy]
      #240441 - 11/01/14 07:00 AM

Quote:

It looks like "kuduae" might be able to help with the information you need.



4seventy, thanks for your excessive and unjustified confidence in my limited knowledge!
Hubert, I will try to answer your questions anyhow:
I have just acquired a complete set of these Vienna mounts on a Kahles Mignon 4x.That includes the front and rear lower bases.
Rear lower base? Please post or send photos of your mounts. pm sent. What gun do you want to mount it on?

A-Is there any tension between the front and rear bases when installing the scope on the rifle ?
No tension, just a snug fit between front base and rear anchor screw (on a Mannlicher-Schoenauer)

B-That is , does the scope require a firm push to click on to the front base?
No, just the resistance of the spring-loaded locking levers = Schnäpper has to be overcome.

C_Or does the scope click on without tension ? That is , clicks on freely .
See B

D- Uninstalled the front base has a small amount of front and back movement .It seems to me that a tension is required to take up this movement after mounting on a rifle .
No tension, just a snug handfitting front-rear.

E-Thus is the front lower base worn ?Or is this movement normal in uninstalled mount ?
Most likely not worn. As in most Wiener Schnäppermontagen the only windage adjustment is by driving the front base sideways, using hammer and brass punch, there must be some play here.

I have not yet mounted my Kahles Mignon 4x shown in this thread above, but I intend to do so on my M1900 Mannlicher-Schoenauer.


This is the way I figured out so far: First I will soft solder the front base to the barrel reinforce. Next I will use my Tasco boresighter to determine the exact position of the "rear base". On Mannlicher-Schoenauers this "rear base" is merely a large-headed screw in the left top of the receiver bridge (ok, I know this bridge is split). The dog-legged rear top of the Schnäpper mount goes under this screwhead with it's pronged lower end. I will place this screw just slightly forward of the indicated position and lock it so that the prongs just slide under it's head. Doing so will allow me to file out the cutout between the prongs of the rear top so that the scope is held snug, but without tension, between front and rear bases. On these Vienna style mounts the recoil stress is taken by the front mount only.


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Hubert
.224 member


Reged: 15/03/05
Posts: 37
Loc: Tasmania , Australia
Re: Vintage Scope [Re: kuduae]
      #240453 - 11/01/14 02:03 PM

Thanks ,Kuduae,
The important points you make are
A-Snug fit ( to avoid movement of the scope ) and
B-Rear base slightly out of position initially so that careful filing can produce a snug fit , no movement .
C-Yes . Recoil taken by front mount .
All that is very helpful .

The rifle is a Zi-di ( Ziegenhahn and Diem ) in 5.6x35 (hornet )
Regretfully the rear action ring will have to be machined its not uncommon to do that I notice .

Thanks to all who responded .
I shall now attempt to upload photographs for the first time .

[image] http://i1369.photobucket.com/albums/ag219/miers4543/2014-01-11014_zps53083077.jpg[/image]

Edited by Hubert (11/01/14 03:53 PM)


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lancaster
.470 member


Reged: 06/05/08
Posts: 8725
Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...
Re: Vintage Scope [Re: Hubert]
      #240462 - 11/01/14 07:47 PM



--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians


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Hubert
.224 member


Reged: 15/03/05
Posts: 37
Loc: Tasmania , Australia
Re: Vintage Scope [Re: lancaster]
      #240464 - 11/01/14 08:36 PM

Dear Lancaster
Thank you so much. I have tried for hours to do this .
There are 3 more of this kind .
I shall try again tomorrow .
Thank you
Robert


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kuduae
.400 member


Reged: 13/01/10
Posts: 1774
Loc: middle of Germany
Re: Vintage Scope [Re: Hubert]
      #240493 - 12/01/14 08:29 AM

As Lancaster already has posted your photos, I can only add: Yes, you can install these mounts on a Zi-Di rifle 5.6x35R Vierling aka .22 WCF rifle. You have to machine or file dovetail slots into receiver ring and -bridge. I would prefer to file on b at the rear base for fitting. If something goes wrong a replacement rear base can be easily filed from bar stock, the ring not so. But a warning: As I wrote, windage adjustment on this scope-mount combination is only by drifting the bases left/right. This may be time and ammo consuming.

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Old_Glass
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Reged: 17/03/10
Posts: 113
Loc: BC, Canada
Re: Vintage Scope [Re: kuduae]
      #261023 - 23/02/15 05:17 PM

I have the impression that the Wiener Schnappermontage is seen on some English rifles. Perhaps one of the makers there had a liking for them. Greener set up a .280 Ross with a Zeiss prismatic using these mounts, which a Lt. Greener of the same family used for sniping in WWI. I have a Goerz Pernox 3.5x with these mounts. I understand this system was used by the A-H army in WWI for sniping with the Steyr M95, usually with the Kahles Mignon.

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