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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Rifles
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kuduae
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Re: DORLEAC Krag Sporter [Re: NitroX]
      #382524 - 13/02/24 10:06 PM

Quote:

What cartridge where the original military Norwegian Krags chambered for?

The Yank versions were .30/40 Krag.

What were the Norwegian rifles?



6.5x55 SE

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: DORLEAC Krag Sporter [Re: kuduae]
      #382526 - 14/02/24 12:19 AM

A ha. Thanks.

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lancaster
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Re: DORLEAC Krag Sporter [Re: NitroX]
      #382530 - 14/02/24 02:59 AM

iirc, this were loaded a little bit down for the norwegian krag because it was not strong as the swedish mauser

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fjrdoc
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Re: DORLEAC Krag Sporter [Re: lancaster]
      #382531 - 14/02/24 04:43 AM

The single locking lug on the Krag was an issue with its strength. I have never handled a Krag but the smoothness. of the action is legendary.

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DarylS
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Re: DORLEAC Krag Sporter [Re: fjrdoc]
      #382540 - 14/02/24 07:30 AM

Smooth they certainly are, as-is the Model 71/1876 and model 71/1884? Mausers, also with one lug.
At some point after 84, a second lug was added, seems to me.

Makes sense the 6.5x55's were downloaded a bit for the Krag, as the CIP standard max. running pressure for that ctg.in a '96 is 55,000psi.
The 96's(94's) were also chambered for 9.3x62's at 57,000psi, and Tradeexcanada had a few that were barreled and chambered for the .30/06, a 60,000psi round.

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wjw
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Re: DORLEAC Krag Sporter [Re: NitroX]
      #382554 - 14/02/24 04:29 PM

Norwegian Krags are 6.5 x 55.

Bill

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Igorrock
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Re: DORLEAC Krag Sporter [Re: NitroX]
      #382638 - 17/02/24 06:24 AM

Swedish 6,5x55.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krag%E2%80%93J%C3%B8rgensen

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9.3x57
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Re: DORLEAC Krag Sporter [Re: Igorrock]
      #382644 - 17/02/24 09:11 AM

Quote:

Swedish 6,5x55.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krag%E2%80%93J%C3%B8rgensen



It's interesting it's come down to us as the 6.5x55 Swede as I do believe the Norwegians did most of the cartridge development during the coordinated weapons program.

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9.3x57
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Re: DORLEAC Krag Sporter [Re: DORLEAC]
      #382645 - 17/02/24 09:18 AM

That is truly a magnificent rifle!!

A technical question:

Did you lap the guide rib in to bear or leave as original?

The Norwegian Krag guide ribs serve as a second locking lug & I think the Danish Krags do, too. Not sure about the Danish rifles but I think so. During US development there was discussion/debate/argument about using the guide ribe as a locking lug with it being determined that was a problem for some reason that escapes me and the decision was made to leave a gap so it served as a safety lug only. I've read of some custom builders here in the US lapping in the front lug to allow the GR to bear as a second locking lug. I think maybe Sedgley did? Not sure.

Again...that is truly a beautiful rifle.

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DarylS
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Re: DORLEAC Krag Sporter [Re: Igorrock]
      #382646 - 17/02/24 12:13 PM

Quote:

Swedish 6,5x55.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krag%E2%80%93J%C3%B8rgensen



870 is pretty good and must be the 139gr. No flies on 2,854fps.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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9.3x57
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Re: DORLEAC Krag Sporter [Re: DarylS]
      #382648 - 17/02/24 12:26 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Swedish 6,5x55.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krag%E2%80%93J%C3%B8rgensen



870 is pretty good and must be the 139gr. No flies on 2,854fps.



Seems way too fast even for a 30+/- inch barrel in acceptable pressures for the Krag action. One of our Norwegian members might weigh in but if I remember correctly, the Krag for a long time (maybe still?) was not normally used for the large animal class in Norway due to limitations of joules in factory loads (which were held to lower pressures amenable to the Krag action). Maybe somebody can weigh in and clarify?

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What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

Edited by 9.3x57 (17/02/24 12:43 PM)

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DarylS
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Re: DORLEAC Krag Sporter [Re: 9.3x57]
      #382652 - 17/02/24 02:40 PM

Yes, it does seem high, but my rifles were running 140gr. at 2,940fps using Re#19.
I have actually reduced that to a 120gr. SST deer load at 3,020fps. from my Varberger's 22" bl.

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9.3x57
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Re: DORLEAC Krag Sporter [Re: DarylS]
      #382655 - 18/02/24 12:27 AM

Quote:

Yes, it does seem high, but my rifles were running 140gr. at 2,940fps using Re#19.
I have actually reduced that to a 120gr. SST deer load at 3,020fps. from my Varberger's 22" bl.



I'd be curious what the actual pressures are of those top loads (in relation to normal working pressures in the Krag action). Not sure, but I believe there was some difference between Swedish & Norwegian military loads given the working pressures of the Mauser 94/96 and Krag.

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lancaster
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Re: DORLEAC Krag Sporter [Re: 9.3x57]
      #382656 - 18/02/24 01:43 AM

somewhere I had a 1950s norma catalog where you can find such information
they had also a 8x57IS with lower pressure for norwegian krag sporter in 8mm called "8 mm Moderat" because common 8 mm Mauser was to much. not with the first shot but after some time, will see if I find it.

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
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9.3x57
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Re: DORLEAC Krag Sporter [Re: lancaster]
      #382657 - 18/02/24 02:35 AM

Quote:

somewhere I had a 1950s norma catalog where you can find such information
they had also a 8x57IS with lower pressure for norwegian krag sporter in 8mm called "8 mm Moderat" because common 8 mm Mauser was to much. not with the first shot but after some time, will see if I find it.



Yes indeed. Here's one:

https://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-f...un_id=100913086



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What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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lancaster
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Re: DORLEAC Krag Sporter [Re: 9.3x57]
      #382659 - 18/02/24 04:04 AM

this is hard to find outside of norway, yes, I would take one for my collection of unusual.
find here that the original norwegian krag was strengthen in 1912, must have had some problems.

"M48 Krag Jørgensen elgrifle (Moose rifle). This rifle was first built as an M1912 carbine in 1918, for military use. Later, there were collected 500 locks from that model, and built as M48 hunting rifles. The M1912 lock is slightly stronger than the M1894 action. Since they intended to use a larger cartridge in this new model, they only used these kinds of actions. The rear sight is not very often seen on hunting rifles. The user is able to switch between 100m and 300m by rolling the wheel. Both the M48 and the M51 was built with 7,92 barrels. After a few years, they found out that the standard 7,92x57 ammunition was a bit too hot for the Krag Jørgensen action. Norma then produced a lighter ammunition that they called 7,92x57 moderate. This ammunition is about 10% weaker than standard 7,92x57 rounds. This ammunition went obsolete within not so many years." http://oldkongsbergarms.com/om/hunting%20weapons/m48%20krag%20jorgensen%20elgrifle.html

there was also a M51 Krag http://oldkongsbergarms.com/om/hunting%20weapons/index.html

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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lancaster
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Re: DORLEAC Krag Sporter [Re: lancaster]
      #382660 - 18/02/24 04:13 AM

can't find the old norma catalog now only a pic showing the end of the story - Kongsberg M 52 with a new FN Mauser action



iirc, the 8x57 moderat pressure was reduced by 10% to be safe in the Model 1894 Krag action. we know this was in the 1912 modification of the Krag action.
so commercial US made 8x57 is maybe just the same stuff today.










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Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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DarylS
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Re: DORLEAC Krag Sporter [Re: lancaster]
      #382661 - 18/02/24 05:39 AM


First two rows of pressure, are US PEZIO 35,000PSI and then CIP pezio of 57,000psi on the 8x57 JS. The righthand lines are for copper crusher CUP.
This is a very handy site.
http://kwk.us/pressures.html

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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yumastepside
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Re: DORLEAC Krag Sporter [Re: DarylS]
      #382745 - 21/02/24 06:22 PM

Always had a thing for the US style Krag sporter, a beautiful rifle Joel.
A friend of mine in the States thinks he may have a Springfield Krag action "somewhere", so hopefully if he can find it, I would like to build a sporter but in 303 British instead of the 30-40.

Roger

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93x64mm
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Re: DORLEAC Krag Sporter [Re: yumastepside]
      #382746 - 21/02/24 10:33 PM

Quote:

Always had a thing for the US style Krag sporter, a beautiful rifle Joel.
A friend of mine in the States thinks he may have a Springfield Krag action "somewhere", so hopefully if he can find it, I would like to build a sporter but in 303 British instead of the 30-40.

Roger



That shouldn't be too hard if you can determine the thread of the Krag, overall their dimensions look fairly similar, perhaps a slight advantage to the Krag as far as capacity maybe? Both had similar performance, but a 303 Brit Krag would certainly be different for sure!

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9.3x57
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Re: DORLEAC Krag Sporter [Re: yumastepside]
      #382749 - 22/02/24 01:06 AM

Quote:

Always had a thing for the US style Krag sporter, a beautiful rifle Joel.
A friend of mine in the States thinks he may have a Springfield Krag action "somewhere", so hopefully if he can find it, I would like to build a sporter but in 303 British instead of the 30-40.

Roger



From what I know (little) about the Krag action, I believe it, like the Mannlicher-Schönauer, is machined for the specific round. Whether the differences between Brit and Krag would suffice to cause trouble, I'm not sure. Would definitely test in every way possible before commencing a build.

Having said that, your idea would be fantastic if it works.

I picture a Tasman/Aussie-Anglo-American rendition, a sort of "Lee-Speed" layout w/ a Krag action. Would be a neat gun.

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What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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lancaster
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Re: DORLEAC Krag Sporter [Re: 9.3x57]
      #382763 - 22/02/24 06:03 AM

if you allow me to come back to the 6,5x55 /norwegian krag question ... I was wrong

this is an early post war norma "catalog" if we call the 3 pages this way and it have the 6,5x55:








10,1 gramm bullet with only 720 m/sec for Mauser AND Krag-Jörgensen.
so it was one load for both but the 1912 modification of the K.-J. was no doubt necessary. it could be the military loads of norway and sweden were different.

would be interesting to compare the norwegian and the US krag action.

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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9.3x57
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Re: DORLEAC Krag Sporter [Re: lancaster]
      #382765 - 22/02/24 03:33 PM

Check: 156 gr @ 2362 fps.

*************************

RE: 8mm's. Were you referring to the 8x54 Krag? Mixup maybe?

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What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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lancaster
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Re: DORLEAC Krag Sporter [Re: 9.3x57]
      #382769 - 23/02/24 04:33 AM

no, the 8x54 have a 12,7 gramm bullet, the 6,5x55 10,1 gramm

why the 8x54 is also named Krag-Jörgensen is beyond of my knowledge. it was a hunting cartridge for rebore swedish Mauser rifles, never see a Krag-Jörgensen for this cartridge

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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9.3x57
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Re: DORLEAC Krag Sporter [Re: lancaster]
      #382770 - 23/02/24 04:59 AM

Quote:

no, the 8x54 have a 12,7 gramm bullet, the 6,5x55 10,1 gramm

why the 8x54 is also named Krag-Jörgensen is beyond of my knowledge. it was a hunting cartridge for rebore swedish Mauser rifles, never see a Krag-Jörgensen for this cartridge



I only posted the 6.5 numbers so the Anglos knew what is going on.

I have read of the 8x54 in Krags before which follows the name. I've never seen one & I've never seen an 8x54 in a Swede either, tho I have seen regular "commercial 96" small ring 8x57's. I owned one.

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What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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