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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Rifles

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pacecars
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Reged: 25/09/05
Posts: 130
Loc: Tallahassee, Florida, USA
So ugly it is pretty
      #339220 - 20/03/20 03:12 PM

I remember sitting in front of the fire on cold winter days when I was young and looking through my favorite gun catalogs. I had the old fold out Ruger catalog with the beautiful Ruger No 1, the shiny Weatherby catalog with the MKVs and the Colt catalog with the Colt Sauer 90 with gorgeous wood and super slick bolt but my favorite one of all was the Catalog from Steyr-Daimler Puch. It has beautiful wood stocks with fancy carvings and fish scale “checkering” and deeply engraved receivers but the one rifle that was my favorite and the one I wanted more than any other gun, the one gun that I thought epitomized the perfect hunting gun was the green stocked Model M Professional in .30-06. I knew I could hunt the world with that one gun and be happy for the rest of my life (pretty smart for an 8 year old huh?). It took me a long time before I finally owned one. I first bought an MIII .270 that shot under a 1/4” repeatedly with cheap ammo but it just wasn’t the same and I sold it, I then got a MIII in .30-06 and it too was accurate but still not quite right. Next up I got a black stocked M Professional with sights in .270 but still I was not satisfied. More MIIIs followed and another M Pro with a brown stock but something was still missing. I loved the way the stock fit me especially for offhand shooting. Looking through several websites the other day I came across this ugly duckling and figured out what had been missing. That damn ugly green stock. This one feels like it may just stick around


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Ash
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Re: So ugly it is pretty [Re: pacecars]
      #339223 - 20/03/20 04:58 PM

I really like how it looks.

--------------------
.


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yumastepside
.333 member


Reged: 25/10/15
Posts: 462
Loc: Tasmania Australia
Re: So ugly it is pretty [Re: Ash]
      #339224 - 20/03/20 06:24 PM

I always had a thing for the OD Green SSG 69, probably watched too much "Lone Wolf McQuade " as a kid!.....and an adult!





Roger

--------------------
If you live for a thousand years, you still only have one life, don't waste it.

Edited by yumastepside (20/03/20 06:33 PM)


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Louis
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Re: So ugly it is pretty [Re: Ash]
      #339225 - 20/03/20 06:26 PM

Nice technical rifle; we all - at least for those above 50, recall the by-gone era without internet when we could spend hours browsing and dreaming through the same catalogs!
Louis

--------------------
"Everything that doesn't kill me makes me stronger"


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500Boswell
.400 member


Reged: 21/07/06
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Loc: Queensland
Re: So ugly it is pretty [Re: Louis]
      #339232 - 21/03/20 08:25 AM

Had one of those years ago 30-06 Professional ,pity there was so much plastic on it ,stock broke through the wrist like a matchstick [cyclolac stock ] then replaced the stock and off loaded it.

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pacecars
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Re: So ugly it is pretty [Re: 500Boswell]
      #339248 - 22/03/20 01:57 AM

My “Holy Grail”!is the same rifle in 9.3x62mm from the factory. I have only seen one and it had a Mannlicher branded 2x7 scope on it. It was a black stock version and priced a little to high for me at the time. I still should have bought it. I do believe the Professional was the first factory sported with a plastic stock.

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
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Re: So ugly it is pretty [Re: pacecars]
      #339249 - 22/03/20 04:15 AM

Pacecars, I agree wholoeheartedly with the first 1/2 of your post title, not the second.
Black stocks, OK, camo stocks, well, OK, pee soup green stocks not so much.
I do like split pee soup, though, with just a touch of vinegar - sweetens it up.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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pacecars
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Re: So ugly it is pretty [Re: DarylS]
      #339255 - 22/03/20 07:38 AM

I have painted a few of the black ones with the spider web paint

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93x64mm
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Reged: 07/12/11
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Re: So ugly it is pretty [Re: pacecars]
      #339257 - 22/03/20 08:22 AM

I believe the term "only a Mother would love it" springs readily to mind - but hey if we all like the same things then it would be a very boring old world!
I'd prefer 'functional'!
I hope yours doesn't go the way of Bos's, shame about the stock - I always thought those 'plastic' stock were virtually unbreakable.....but obviously not so!


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500Boswell
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Reged: 21/07/06
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Re: So ugly it is pretty [Re: 93x64mm]
      #339263 - 22/03/20 10:52 AM

Basically a good rifle ,but let down by a weak stock, the plastic mag and trigger guard ,in Steyr's obsession with cost cutting, it wasnt a cheap rifle at the time i bought it .

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DarylS
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Re: So ugly it is pretty [Re: 500Boswell]
      #339279 - 23/03/20 05:33 AM

Friend of mine had a custom made .35 Whelen on a M98 with handlaid fiberglass stock. I had to re-bed the stock for him to get it to shoot
his demanded sub 1" @ 100 meters.
His horse lay down on it on a hunting trip, breaking the stock through the wrist, but didn't bend the barrel nor hurt the Leupold scope.
I restocked it for him with a Boydboys laminated stock & bedded that one.
The weight was increased and turned a hard kicking gun into a pleasant one to shoot. It also looked better.


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pacecars
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Re: So ugly it is pretty [Re: DarylS]
      #339298 - 23/03/20 01:28 PM

I had thought about having the stock duplicated in a laminate on previous ones but that would make it rather heavy

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DarylS
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Re: So ugly it is pretty [Re: pacecars]
      #339301 - 23/03/20 04:45 PM

Yes - all that epoxy adds weight - normally. Much depends on the # of laminations, ie: how thick they are. If 1/16" thick, that's a lot more glue than 1/8" or 3/16" thick lams.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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Yochanan
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Re: So ugly it is pretty [Re: DarylS]
      #339311 - 24/03/20 03:42 AM

If I remember McMillan had a ssg 69 stock on offer many years ago. Maybe they still got the pattern mould.

--------------------
© "I have never been able to appreciate 'shock' as applied to killing big game. It seems to me that you cannot kill an elephant weighing six tons by ´shock´unless you advocate the use of a field gun." - W.D.M. Bell: Wanderings of an Elephant Hunter.


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pacecars
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Re: So ugly it is pretty [Re: Yochanan]
      #339325 - 24/03/20 10:18 AM

The SSG is a short action though

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pacecars
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Re: So ugly it is pretty [Re: pacecars]
      #339782 - 05/04/20 09:11 AM

Just bought a Kahles Helia 6x42S to put on it

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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
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Re: So ugly it is pretty [Re: pacecars]
      #339792 - 05/04/20 11:10 AM

Quote:

I remember sitting in front of the fire on cold winter days when I was young and looking through my favorite gun catalogs. I had the old fold out Ruger catalog with the beautiful Ruger No 1, the shiny Weatherby catalog with the MKVs and the Colt catalog with the Colt Sauer 90 with gorgeous wood and super slick bolt but my favorite one of all was the Catalog from Steyr-Daimler Puch. It has beautiful wood stocks with fancy carvings and fish scale “checkering” and deeply engraved receivers but the one rifle that was my favorite and the one I wanted more than any other gun, the one gun that I thought epitomized the perfect hunting gun was the green stocked Model M Professional in .30-06. I knew I could hunt the world with that one gun and be happy for the rest of my life (pretty smart for an 8 year old huh?). It took me a long time before I finally owned one. I first bought an MIII .270 that shot under a 1/4” repeatedly with cheap ammo but it just wasn’t the same and I sold it, I then got a MIII in .30-06 and it too was accurate but still not quite right. Next up I got a black stocked M Professional with sights in .270 but still I was not satisfied. More MIIIs followed and another M Pro with a brown stock but something was still missing. I loved the way the stock fit me especially for offhand shooting. Looking through several websites the other day I came across this ugly duckling and figured out what had been missing. That damn ugly green stock. This one feels like it may just stick around





I don't mind them.

One of our members here, Orion, used to have one, and brought one to a shoot many years ago. He also had a modern Mannlicher stutzen with a plastic stock in .222 Rem.

Ugly but has that Germanic/Austrian look to it.

If the stock is OK, a useful all weather rifle.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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pacecars
.300 member


Reged: 25/09/05
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Re: So ugly it is pretty [Re: NitroX]
      #339794 - 05/04/20 11:19 AM

Just picked up a Kahles Helia S 6x42 with a 4a reticle. The Redfield just doesn’t look right. I may have the perfect all around rifle.

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rpeck



Reged: 06/12/13
Posts: 435
Loc: Canada
Re: So ugly it is pretty [Re: pacecars]
      #340820 - 06/05/20 09:50 PM

Although most of my rifles are European fullstocks ("Mannlicher-style") of various kinds, all with great wood, I never thought the Steyr-Mannlicher Model M Professional was ugly. I think its a great looking rifle. So far, I have owned two, both in 30-06, both with green stocks, both with DST (I have double set triggers on a lot of my other rifles, so I am used to them.)

When I lived on the Canadian Wet Coast I shot my best Blacktail buck in the pouring rain with a Steyr-Mannlicher Model M Professional in 30-06...a quick offhand shot using open sights. And I used that same rifle to shoot my biggest B.C. bear. Another fast offhand shot, but with a 4X scope. The rifle has great ergonomics for off-hand shooting although a bit painful to shoot at the bench. With that tight radius pistol grip, the trigger guard can really snap back onto your middle finger. I sold it because I broke a few magazines. (They don't usually break when empty, but when full and heavy they can break if dropped. They break right on the edges where the screws are.)...and the soft screws on the Q-D mounts are irritating. The heads are easily messed up and are an odd metric size that is hard to replace. Years later I regretted selling it and found its twin at a Nova Scotia gun show...right down to the Leupold 4X. And today (yes, right now) I'm waiting on the delivery of another one. It might be here today. DST, factory QD rings (but also with a set of Talley bases) and a black stock.

Edited by rpeck (07/05/20 03:07 AM)


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500Boswell
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Re: So ugly it is pretty [Re: rpeck]
      #340847 - 07/05/20 02:18 PM

I had that problem with the soft screws too ,was annoying, thing about plastic ,inevitably its going to break ,i had a Steyr M72 full stock was a beautiful rifle ,first time i went to load the mag, the follower disintegrated ,there was no way you could repair it ,had to be replaced, luckily replacements are available[at the moment ] ,should have been made of steel to begin with .somebody at Steyr needs their head looked at .

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Rule303
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Reged: 05/07/09
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Loc: Woodford Qld
Re: So ugly it is pretty [Re: 500Boswell]
      #340872 - 08/05/20 08:56 AM

Now Steyr plastic magazines are the ducks nuts. That is the AUG ones. Throw one on the cement footpath jump up and down on it, load it and go shoot something. They can take punishment that will very quickly wreck a steel mag. Now if only this would become the norm and other manufacturers use the same polymers.

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rpeck



Reged: 06/12/13
Posts: 435
Loc: Canada
Re: So ugly it is pretty [Re: Rule303]
      #340910 - 10/05/20 02:58 AM

re: plastic gun parts

In my experience the worst bit of plastic on a rifle was the plastic bottom of the Brno .22 steel magazines. The Brno .22 was one of the firearms of choice in Western Canada for summer shooting of gophers (Richardsons Ground Squirrel)...and Muskol was a good strong insect repellent of choice, necessary because of the clouds of mosquitos. So after successive applications, the mosquito repellent tended to accumulate in the palm of your hand...and when changing magazines with the same palm of your hand...after a time, the plastic would just suddenly disintegrate , releasing spring and ammo into the field somewhere. It wasn't so bad when those mags were cheap, but they aren't anymore. I note that the mags on the new CZ rifles are all plastic.

Edited by rpeck (10/05/20 03:01 AM)


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rpeck



Reged: 06/12/13
Posts: 435
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Re: So ugly it is pretty [Re: rpeck]
      #340928 - 10/05/20 06:35 AM

re: Steyr plastic stocks.

I have seen a few Steyr-Mannlicher Model M Pro plastic stocks that were cracked, but I have also seen a lot of walnut stocks similarly shattered beyond repair...Stop driving over your rifles!




Edited by rpeck (12/05/20 01:20 AM)


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rpeck



Reged: 06/12/13
Posts: 435
Loc: Canada
new S-M Pro [Re: rpeck]
      #341015 - 12/05/20 01:29 AM

A "new" S-M Pro came yesterday in the mail. (Sunday mail delivery...Who knew?). A minty excellent condition 30-06 made April, 1986. DST. It came with a spare magazine in new condition, a set of Steyr Q-D 1 in. scope mounts in the factory box, Talley bases and various original factory manuals, the original test target (3-shot half-inch group)and warranty card, etc. It was a one-owner rifle. I put an older 30mm Zeiss Duralyt (4A reticle) on it in Talley QD rings, and it still only weighs 8.5 lb. So not too light and not too heavy. Very well balanced for off hand shooting.





Edited by rpeck (13/05/20 10:54 PM)


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Louis
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Re: new S-M Pro [Re: rpeck]
      #341016 - 12/05/20 01:54 AM

Very nice; a true working rifle!
Can you still find easily spare magazines, either new from the maker, or second hand in Canada or internationally?
Louis

--------------------
"Everything that doesn't kill me makes me stronger"


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rpeck



Reged: 06/12/13
Posts: 435
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Re: new S-M Pro [Re: Louis]
      #341017 - 12/05/20 02:47 AM

Yes, the magazines are available in Canada. Two came with the rifle and that is enough for me now. I might pick up a third.

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DarylS
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Re: new S-M Pro [Re: Louis]
      #341026 - 12/05/20 07:07 AM

Although I do not like plastic, preferring wood, the black one is definitely better than the split-pea soup green one.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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rpeck



Reged: 06/12/13
Posts: 435
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Re: new S-M Pro [Re: DarylS]
      #341032 - 12/05/20 09:10 AM

Quote:

Although I do not like plastic, preferring wood, the black one is definitely better than the split-pea soup green one.




And I prefer the green one.


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: new S-M Pro [Re: rpeck]
      #341037 - 12/05/20 03:03 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Although I do not like plastic, preferring wood, the black one is definitely better than the split-pea soup green one.




And I prefer the green one.




Yes me as well, prefer the Germanic green stock to the "tacticool" black one.

But everyone to what they prefer. Both will do the job.

One of my Mauser M03 has Daryl's "pea green' colour stock as well, I would have buy it in black.

My Mauser 96 has a cheapo black plastic stock. Does the job, but don't particularly like it.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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Louis
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Re: new S-M Pro [Re: NitroX]
      #341046 - 12/05/20 05:23 PM

Good that you have enough magazines, Robin, and that supply is still available; tracing additional magazines is often a sport by itself with vintage rifles!
Louis

--------------------
"Everything that doesn't kill me makes me stronger"


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rpeck



Reged: 06/12/13
Posts: 435
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Re: new S-M Pro [Re: Louis]
      #341047 - 12/05/20 09:34 PM

I see one for sale now in Canada, a.270 with the brown stock and 6 (!!)extra magazines...(Those .270 mags fit 30-06 as well.) The mags are relatively expensive, so its a real premium to buy a rifle with extra mags.

I am a bit unclear on the three (?) different "Professional" models.

Firstly, and not to be confused with the three different models...I know there are the three different stock colors. An on-line British hunting site claims that the brown stocks were the first produced (late 70's), then the black and green ones in the 80's, and also that green is the least common stock color. (However, in my experience, in Canada, green is the most commonly seen for sale by far, then brown, with black being the rarest.)

I see in a S-M sales brochure from the 80's that the Pro was available with parkerized barrels in .270 and 30-06 but was also available in any other standard Model M caliber with the standard blued barrel. I have seen Pros in 9.3x62 and 6.5x55 for sale at gunshows in Canada.

Does anyone know the actual timeline for the three (?) Model M Professional models... including the ones without open sights (the MII?) and the reason for the simpler machining of the receiver on the MIII...(possibly a late production cost-cutting measure?)...see attached pictures...the bottom photo is the MIII)




Edited by rpeck (13/05/20 04:48 AM)


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vykkagur
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Re: new S-M Pro [Re: Louis]
      #341049 - 13/05/20 12:38 AM

Why isn't there Sunday mail delivery in MY part of Canada??? I want to talk to my Member of Parliament!!!

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rpeck



Reged: 06/12/13
Posts: 435
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Re: new S-M Pro [Re: vykkagur]
      #341059 - 13/05/20 03:09 AM

I was surprised myself...of course it was an expedited tracked parcel and the Post Office guaranteed that it was going to arrive five days before it finally did...but I was still happy to get it...especially on a Sunday.

Edited by rpeck (14/05/20 11:38 PM)


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rpeck



Reged: 06/12/13
Posts: 435
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Re: So ugly it is pretty [Re: 500Boswell]
      #341075 - 13/05/20 10:49 PM

Quote:

I had that problem with the soft screws too ,was annoying,




I just noticed that the "annoying" soft-head screws in the Steyr factory Q-D mounts, are the same size as those in original Sako factory scope mounts which are much harder. I have a set I am not using and it has hex head screws. So I will transfer them over to the Steyr mounts. Right now I use Talley QD rings, mostly because I have a lot of them and it makes it easy to change scopes. Talleys are expensive in Canada (almost twice the USA price) but the 30mm QD Talley rings on that Zeiss scope only cost me $20. at a local gun show!!!

Also...It is just an unplanned coincidence, but it looks good that the finish on the Zeiss scope is almost exactly the same color and texture as the "parkerized" steel finish on the rifle.



Edited by rpeck (14/05/20 11:51 PM)


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bstrick
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Re: So ugly it is pretty [Re: rpeck]
      #341219 - 19/05/20 12:52 PM

The prettiness of this gun reminds me of my neighbor when he told me that he bought a Bear Grizzly bow. A bow was a tool and if he needed an oar for the boat, he wouldn't be afraid to use it!

Edited by bstrick (20/05/20 02:32 AM)


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rpeck



Reged: 06/12/13
Posts: 435
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Re: So ugly it is pretty [Re: bstrick]
      #341233 - 20/05/20 05:40 AM



Edited by rpeck (20/05/20 05:51 AM)


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DarylS
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Re: So ugly it is pretty [Re: rpeck]
      #341238 - 20/05/20 08:19 AM

THAT is a good sized bear. Look at the 'rounded' head on it
and distance between the seemingly "small" ears.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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bstrick
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Re: So ugly it is pretty [Re: DarylS]
      #341263 - 21/05/20 09:43 AM

I see that Zeiss discontinued the Duralyt 2-8x42 scope. I like that power and size. How do you like the scope?

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rpeck



Reged: 06/12/13
Posts: 435
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Re: So ugly it is pretty [Re: bstrick]
      #341281 - 21/05/20 11:04 PM

Quote:

I see that Zeiss discontinued the Duralyt 2-8x42 scope. I like that power and size. How do you like the scope?




I like it. It is bright, relatively lightweight and has a useful all-purpose power range that suits a 30-06. However, I also have a Swarovski Habicht 1.5x-4.5x20 for that same rifle and haven't yet decided which one I prefer...

Edited by rpeck (21/05/20 11:08 PM)


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Rothhammer1
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Re: So ugly it is pretty [Re: rpeck]
      #341305 - 23/05/20 06:50 PM

'Mo betta' - so pretty it's pretty:





Per usinflationcalculator.com , $175.00 USD in 1939 would be equal to $3227.92 in 2020.

--------------------
Citizen of the Cherokee Nation


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rpeck



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Posts: 435
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Re: So ugly it is pretty [Re: Rothhammer1]
      #341306 - 23/05/20 11:21 PM

My grandmother was from Steyr and both her father and her brother were gunsmiths. That may have something to do with the fact that I have owned a dozen or more various Mannlicher-Schönauer rifles over the years...hunted with several of them...however, I only kept two. One with a Lyman #36 folding peep sight I gave to my son and the other is mine: a minty Model 1903 6.5x54 carbine with factory special order wood. (In the M-S ad above it is referred to as, "specially selected pretty wood". Most regular M-S wood was remarkably bland for the period). I also have a safe full of various other European fullstock rifles, all with great wood. None of this in any way affects my admiration for the Steyr -Mannlicher Model M Professional. As well as being a handsome and accurate rifle, it has great balance for off-hand shooting...as does the little M-S 6.5 carbine in its own way.





Edited by rpeck (24/05/20 03:20 AM)


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Rothhammer1
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Re: So ugly it is pretty [Re: rpeck]
      #341400 - 26/05/20 06:12 PM

Quote:


None of this in any way affects my admiration for the Steyr -Mannlicher Model M Professional. As well as being a handsome and accurate rifle, it has great balance for off-hand shooting...as does the little M-S 6.5 carbine in its own way.





Steyr CLII SX: CLII SX

--------------------
Citizen of the Cherokee Nation


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pacecars
.300 member


Reged: 25/09/05
Posts: 130
Loc: Tallahassee, Florida, USA
Re: So ugly it is pretty [Re: Rothhammer1]
      #341459 - 29/05/20 11:12 AM

So far I have not found a rifle that fits me better for off hand shooting than the Model M Professional. There is something about it that feels right when thrown up to the shoulder.

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NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39196
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: So ugly it is pretty [Re: rpeck]
      #341466 - 29/05/20 05:17 PM

Quote:

My grandmother was from Steyr and both her father and her brother were gunsmiths. That may have something to do with the fact that I have owned a dozen or more various Mannlicher-Schönauer rifles over the years...hunted with several of them...however, I only kept two. One with a Lyman #36 folding peep sight I gave to my son and the other is mine: a minty Model 1903 6.5x54 carbine with factory special order wood. (In the M-S ad above it is referred to as, "specially selected pretty wood". Most regular M-S wood was remarkably bland for the period). I also have a safe full of various other European fullstock rifles, all with great wood. None of this in any way affects my admiration for the Steyr -Mannlicher Model M Professional. As well as being a handsome and accurate rifle, it has great balance for off-hand shooting...as does the little M-S 6.5 carbine in its own way.








Very nice.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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rpeck



Reged: 06/12/13
Posts: 435
Loc: Canada
Re: So ugly it is pretty [Re: pacecars]
      #341521 - 31/05/20 12:46 AM

Quote:

So far I have not found a rifle that fits me better for off hand shooting than the Model M Professional. There is something about it that feels right when thrown up to the shoulder.




agreed

Edited by rpeck (01/06/20 11:17 PM)


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EDELWEISS
.375 member


Reged: 22/11/05
Posts: 604
Loc: Gettysburg
Re: new S-M Pro [Re: Louis]
      #341953 - 08/06/20 10:49 PM

I had an SSG69. I loved it. It might have been the most accurate production rifle I ever owned. I loved the Butterknife bolt handle and set trigger. The detachable rotary mags were a problem. They are plastic and by 2015 they werent available.

I always cussed because I failed to buy any of the 10 round mags (the last one of those I saw was going for $300). As time passed I worried more and more about a failed mag and then a useless/unsellable rifle, so I sold my worries. I miss the gun but not the worries.

--------------------
If it's not custom, it's just borrowed


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