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rigbymauser
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Reged: 15/05/05
Posts: 1970
Loc: Denmark
.30-30 in Africa..
      #324022 - 30/01/19 06:19 AM

..why not.

Anybody know who has brought a ."dirty-thirty" with them to Africa. I thought about next time to bring one. Thought it could be kinda cool. Its nuff gun for impala, warthog, springbok and that size game.


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Postman
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Re: .30-30 in Africa.. [Re: rigbymauser]
      #324038 - 30/01/19 02:26 PM

So I’m going to put forth an idea that is surely controversial:

“There have been more whitetail deer harvested with the .30-30 than any other rifle throughout history”
“And, there have been more whitetail shot and lost with a .30-30 than any other rifle throughout history.”

The eastern Canadian whitetails are pretty big and it seems that the thutty thutty just doesn’t seem to pack enough punch to reliably switch them off. I watched a good heated argument or two at a hunt camp I used to participate in where one of the guys was using a .30-06 and harvested every deer he ever shot at every season..... The others in the camp felt that the .30-06 destroyed too much meat and were adamant that he switch to a .30-30 like the rest of the camp...... That camp had numerous deer that got shot and were never recovered even after very long drawn out tracking exercises.

Me, I’m a bit undecided but I think shots should be kept sane and under 100 yards with the .30-30.... shot placement is really key with this mild round. I don’t see why an impala wouldn’t expire with a well placed fatal shot at reasonably short range. If it is something you’d like to try, I say “why not!!”?

Edited by Postman (30/01/19 02:29 PM)


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9.3x57
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Reged: 22/04/07
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Re: .30-30 in Africa.. [Re: rigbymauser]
      #324041 - 30/01/19 03:18 PM

Quote:

..why not.

Anybody know who has brought a ."dirty-thirty" with them to Africa. I thought about next time to bring one. Thought it could be kinda cool. Its nuff gun for impala, warthog, springbok and that size game.




I did, but only used it on vervet monkey.

Had trouble keeping the professional's paws off it, tho!

It was a Marlin transitional 36/336 model.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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Ripp
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Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA
Re: .30-30 in Africa.. [Re: 9.3x57]
      #324046 - 30/01/19 03:50 PM

My thought is, you put a bullet hole through both lungs, the animal will die, period..
As to Postman's story..there are, IMHO, so many variables there to really draw any type of conclusion that would be credible..

Were the 30-30 shooters shooting at running game?? Was the '06 shooter maybe just a better shot? Was he using a scope vs open sights? all open sights?? all scoped?? types of bullets used by both??

I used a 30-30 for a couple years after I left the farm just for nostalgia ..had no problems on the whitetail..and we are also very far north..on the Canadian line--so, also very large deer..

Stick with my story.. 22 rimfire, 30-30 or 300 Win Mag--put a legitimate hole through BOTH lungs..they die, period.. hell I killed a whitetail doe in my back yard accidently with a 22 pellet gun..

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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9.3x57
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Reged: 22/04/07
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Re: .30-30 in Africa.. [Re: Ripp]
      #324049 - 30/01/19 03:59 PM

Quote:

My thought is, you put a bullet hole through both lungs, the animal will die, period..
As to Postman's story..there are, IMHO, so many variables there to really draw any type of conclusion that would be credible..

Were the 30-30 shooters shooting at running game?? Was the '06 shooter maybe just a better shot? Was he using a scope vs open sights? all open sights?? all scoped?? types of bullets used by both??

I used a 30-30 for a couple years after I left the farm just for nostalgia ..had no problems on the whitetail..and we are also very far north..on the Canadian line--so, also very large deer..

Stick with my story.. 22 rimfire, 30-30 or 300 Win Mag--put a legitimate hole through BOTH lungs..they die, period.. hell I killed a whitetail doe in my back yard accidently with a 22 pellet gun..




+1

The only BS in this post is the word "accidently".



--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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Homer
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Re: .30-30 in Africa.. [Re: 9.3x57]
      #324052 - 30/01/19 06:43 PM

G'Day Fella's,

Rigbymauser, , I agree, why not.

D'oh!
Homer

--------------------
"Beware the Lolly Pop of Mediocrity,
Lick it Once and You Will Suck Forever"


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Rule303
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Reged: 05/07/09
Posts: 4907
Loc: Woodford Qld
Re: .30-30 in Africa.. [Re: 9.3x57]
      #324055 - 30/01/19 08:57 PM

Quote:

Quote:

My thought is, you put a bullet hole through both lungs, the animal will die, period..
As to Postman's story..there are, IMHO, so many variables there to really draw any type of conclusion that would be credible..

Were the 30-30 shooters shooting at running game?? Was the '06 shooter maybe just a better shot? Was he using a scope vs open sights? all open sights?? all scoped?? types of bullets used by both??

I used a 30-30 for a couple years after I left the farm just for nostalgia ..had no problems on the whitetail..and we are also very far north..on the Canadian line--so, also very large deer..

Stick with my story.. 22 rimfire, 30-30 or 300 Win Mag--put a legitimate hole through BOTH lungs..they die, period.. hell I killed a whitetail doe in my back yard accidently with a 22 pellet gun..




+1

The only BS in this post is the word "accidently".






I concur.

I can't see why a 30-30 wouldn't do the job. I have shot and killed a few decent sized pigs between 150 and 200mts with one. Use 170 grain pills keep shots under 150mts and you should be right. If cape Buff is the game you need to be 5 mts or closer and in behind the ear. Had a Ranger mate in the NT shoot Water Buff this way. Yes his stalking skills and bush-craft were excellent


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Ripp
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Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
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Re: .30-30 in Africa.. [Re: Rule303]
      #324061 - 30/01/19 11:55 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

My thought is, you put a bullet hole through both lungs, the animal will die, period..
As to Postman's story..there are, IMHO, so many variables there to really draw any type of conclusion that would be credible..

Were the 30-30 shooters shooting at running game?? Was the '06 shooter maybe just a better shot? Was he using a scope vs open sights? all open sights?? all scoped?? types of bullets used by both??

I used a 30-30 for a couple years after I left the farm just for nostalgia ..had no problems on the whitetail..and we are also very far north..on the Canadian line--so, also very large deer..

Stick with my story.. 22 rimfire, 30-30 or 300 Win Mag--put a legitimate hole through BOTH lungs..they die, period.. hell I killed a whitetail doe in my back yard accidently with a 22 pellet gun..




+1

The only BS in this post is the word "accidently".






I concur.

I can't see why a 30-30 wouldn't do the job. I have shot and killed a few decent sized pigs between 150 and 200mts with one. Use 170 grain pills keep shots under 150mts and you should be right. If cape Buff is the game you need to be 5 mts or closer and in behind the ear. Had a Ranger mate in the NT shoot Water Buff this way. Yes his stalking skills and bush-craft were excellent




9.3x57 And Rule 303,

WHY??? WHY??
O.K.. It was KIND OF an accident..

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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9.3x57
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Reged: 22/04/07
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Re: .30-30 in Africa.. [Re: Ripp]
      #324063 - 31/01/19 12:57 AM

...accidently...on purpose...



--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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Wayne59
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Reged: 20/06/15
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Loc: Lagrange Ga. USA
Re: .30-30 in Africa.. [Re: 9.3x57]
      #324067 - 31/01/19 02:30 AM

Is this a death bed confession?

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rigbymauser
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Reged: 15/05/05
Posts: 1970
Loc: Denmark
Re: .30-30 in Africa.. [Re: Wayne59]
      #324075 - 31/01/19 05:24 AM



Bought these 7boxes of ammo right here before Christmas.
Its all 170grain.
Most .30-30 ammo found overhere are 150grain stuff.
I hope the ammo here will do well in my old 1893 Marlin.
I lying here with a slipped disc so I haven`t tried it yet.



Edited by rigbymauser (31/01/19 05:43 AM)


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DarylS
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Re: .30-30 in Africa.. [Re: rigbymauser]
      #324078 - 31/01/19 05:48 AM

Here in BC, I've been told a lot of MOOSE have been killed with .30/30's. Some of them were even found.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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rigbymauser
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Reged: 15/05/05
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Re: .30-30 in Africa.. [Re: DarylS]
      #324080 - 31/01/19 06:09 AM

Quote:

Here in BC, I've been told a lot of MOOSE have been killed with .30/30's. Some of them were even found.






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9.3x57
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Reged: 22/04/07
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Re: .30-30 in Africa.. [Re: DarylS]
      #324081 - 31/01/19 06:19 AM

Quote:

Here in BC, I've been told a lot of MOOSE have been killed with .30/30's. Some of them were even found.




LOL. Well said.

A LOT of elk here have been killed with the .30-30 for the obvious reason that for many years the gun was cheap and readily available. A friend used on with no problems at all. I'm sure some have been lost as well, and in truth, I personally would avoid it for elk and definitely for moose, tho I've read of many of them and of course big bear of both brown and white configuration being killed, too.

As a young hunter a friend called me up to help him with a deer he shot. As it turned out, he was sitting along a treeline and heard a shot, then some minutes later saw a buck leave the treeline and run toward him. He was using a Remington 700 in .30-06 topped with a Williams Guide peep sight. One shot took the deer down nicely. A few minutes after that, an out-of-breath kid packing a Marlin 336 popped out of the treeline as well, claiming the deer was his. A discussion took place and the kid gave up, apparently convinced he'd missed the animal. Later, when helping my friend skin it, I found a fresh wound on the animal's ham, invisible from the outside. We dug in and found a bullet up against the femur. Removing it and cleaning it off, I could see it was a .30-30 bullet fired from a Marlin as it clearly showed Micro-Groove rifling. Bullet was a little mushroomed but had only penetrated a few inches and simply stopped when contacting the rear leg bone. Deer didn't even notice it.

Many years later I shot a buck that was running away from me with a 6.5x55 and a 140 grain Prvi Partizan soft point. Bullet penetrated the rear ham, shattered the femur and we found it under the hide on the off shoulder.

I've often reflected on those two similar shots.

Anyway, my son and I have both used the .30-30 to kill smallish black bear but nothing else of game. I've used it on butcher sheep a bit and we have used the very similar-performing 7.62x39 for deer, coyotes and small varmints and consider it a very fine deer round with the 125 grain bullets we have used. Moral of the story being when used on game of the size of whitetails, I think the .30-30 {or rounds of it's type .32 Win, .30 Rem, 7.62x39, etc} is a fine round as long as one keeps to side shots.

As if that is a remarkable statement, seeings that millions of deer have been killed with the hoary old Dirty-Thirty!

So in Africa it would be fine on game of whitetail size, and there are a lot of critters that fit that category.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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rigbymauser
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Reged: 15/05/05
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Re: .30-30 in Africa.. [Re: 9.3x57]
      #324092 - 31/01/19 08:48 AM

Lots of swedes have used the 6,5x55 for moose. I have often wondered how long the moose ran before dropping.

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9.3x57
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Reged: 22/04/07
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Re: .30-30 in Africa.. [Re: rigbymauser]
      #324093 - 31/01/19 08:53 AM

Quote:

Lots of swedes have used the 6,5x55 for moose. I have often wondered how long the moose ran before dropping.




This listing has been kicked around for many years. Not sure the original source of it.

http://www.kifaruforums.net/archive/index.php/t-10343.html

I have never killed a moose but if interpolating results on elk and deer mean anything, I see no reason to doubt its accuracy.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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rigbymauser
.400 member


Reged: 15/05/05
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Re: .30-30 in Africa.. [Re: 9.3x57]
      #324095 - 31/01/19 09:22 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Lots of swedes have used the 6,5x55 for moose. I have often wondered how long the moose ran before dropping.




This listing has been kicked around for many years. Not sure the original source of it.

http://www.kifaruforums.net/archive/index.php/t-10343.html

I have never killed a moose but if interpolating results on elk and deer mean anything, I see no reason to doubt its accuracy.



I have seen that list and somehow it doesn`t make sence intirely..


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9.3x57
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Reged: 22/04/07
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Re: .30-30 in Africa.. [Re: rigbymauser]
      #324097 - 31/01/19 10:01 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Lots of swedes have used the 6,5x55 for moose. I have often wondered how long the moose ran before dropping.




This listing has been kicked around for many years. Not sure the original source of it.

http://www.kifaruforums.net/archive/index.php/t-10343.html

I have never killed a moose but if interpolating results on elk and deer mean anything, I see no reason to doubt its accuracy.



I have seen that list and somehow it doesn`t make sence intirely..




I don't have much to gripe about pertaining to the calibers that have substantial representation. It's hard to make anything of those that are cited infrequently.

I've killed elk with the .375 H&H Mag, .30-06, 9.3x57, 6.5x55, 7x57 and .264 Win Mag and deer with many calibers from 6.5x55 to .375. To be honest, I can't say I've seen a significant difference between any of them. Hit right they drop or run a bit. Hit badly and they run a lot.

Years ago Finn Aagaard stated that he couldn't see much difference on medium game shot with the .375 and other common smaller calibers {.270, .30-06, etc}. He had vastly more experience than me, but I don't have any experience that would call his judgment on that score into question.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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Ripp
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Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA
Re: .30-30 in Africa.. [Re: 9.3x57]
      #324112 - 31/01/19 11:06 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Lots of swedes have used the 6,5x55 for moose. I have often wondered how long the moose ran before dropping.




This listing has been kicked around for many years. Not sure the original source of it.

http://www.kifaruforums.net/archive/index.php/t-10343.html

I have never killed a moose but if interpolating results on elk and deer mean anything, I see no reason to doubt its accuracy.



I have seen that list and somehow it doesn`t make sence intirely..




I've killed elk with the .375 H&H Mag, .30-06, 9.3x57, 6.5x55, 7x57 and .264 Win Mag and deer with many calibers from 6.5x55 to .375. To be honest, I can't say I've seen a significant difference between any of them. Hit right they drop or run a bit. Hit badly and they run a lot.

Years ago Finn Aagaard stated that he couldn't see much difference on medium game shot with the .375 and other common smaller calibers {.270, .30-06, etc}. He had vastly more experience than me, but I don't have any experience that would call his judgment on that score into question.




And here it is.. "Hit right they drop or run a bit. Hit badly and they run a lot."- weird..:)

I have often questioned the guy who says, "Man, I hit that elk solid, 3 times, right through the lungs".. To that, I say BULL shit!!! IF you truly hit it through the lungs, that elk would be in your freezer right now..but instead the rifle, caliber, wind, scope, whatever gets the blame..OR, maybe elk have 3 lungs???

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

Edited by Ripp (31/01/19 11:23 PM)


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Postman
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Reged: 25/09/13
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Re: .30-30 in Africa.. [Re: Ripp]
      #324114 - 31/01/19 11:36 PM

Quote: “And here it is.. "Hit right they drop or run a bit. Hit badly and they run a lot."- weird..:)

I have often questioned the guy who says, "Man, I hit that elk solid, 3 times, right through the lungs".. To that, I say BULL shit!!! IF you truly hit it through the lungs, that elk would be in your freezer right now..but instead the rifle, caliber, wind, scope, whatever gets the blame..OR, maybe elk have 3 lungs???”

^ ^ ^ ^. This!!!!!! ^. ^ ^ ^

Yes, I think that is the crux of the issue with the .30-30....... Will it kill deer sized game? ( even big whitetails?). Of course it will!!! As Ripp points out, mortal hits will anchor game......

The issue with the .30-30 is when hits are marginal or at bad angles as the .30-30 lacks horsepower to reliably penetrate to the vitals on deer and other such animals that exceed 200 pounds. Put it through the boiler room, and the freezer is full of venison. Hit badly and at best you have a long tracking job and at worst, you lose the deer.

The .30-06 is significantly more powerful and will provide greater margin of error and offers up deeper penetration and I think that’s an important distinction......Along with more horsepower and deeper penetration comes greater tissue destruction. Some would say better to have half a deer than to lose a whole one..... Others just get close and wait for a clean broadside shot and accept the reailities of the ballistics of the cartridge they’re using and will pick their shots - or accept that if they’re not offered a good clean broadside shot or similar shot where surety of hitting the vitals is high, they will pass on pulling the trigger.

Edited by Postman (01/02/19 09:56 AM)


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9.3x57
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Reged: 22/04/07
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Re: .30-30 in Africa.. [Re: Postman]
      #324118 - 01/02/19 01:19 AM

RIPP, exactly!!!

BTW: Mine and my daughter's experience, of course only reflecting that of many, many others, with the 7.62x39 makes me convinced that the .30-30 would benefit by the use of modern 125 grain bullets and held to only side shots on deer AND held to about 100 yards range would be superior to the old slow 170's whichsupposedly go 2200 fps but in reality only approach 2000. 125's would run about the same speed as the Commie service round. We shot some decent sized deer and in fact, one of the largest we've ever shot was shot by my then-15 or so year old daughter and that being a frontal shot. And THAT bullet due to a long-story...a Wolf HP! Velocity matters on thin stuff and that monsters ran about 60 yards and piled up.

One of the things I appreciate about this forum is the Euro influence here with their experience with tracking dogs.

IMO a lot of those deer and even elk that are thought to have been missed or hit poorly have been actually hit right but so many folks simply are incapable of and worse, simply will not track game or even worse yet, don't care enough to, so a critter that runs 50 yards in the woods is lost. And some states in the US STILL bar use of blood tracking dogs.

Thanks to some folks on this forum I petitioned the Idaho Fish and Game Department some years ago and got that law changed. The .30-30 would benefit if every rifle came with a trained dog!

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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DarylS
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Re: .30-30 in Africa.. [Re: 9.3x57]
      #324124 - 01/02/19 05:46 AM

Quote:



One of the things I appreciate about this forum is the Euro influence here with their experience with tracking dogs.

IMO a lot of those deer and even elk that are thought to have been missed or hit poorly have been actually hit right but so many folks simply are incapable of and worse, simply will not track game or even worse yet, don't care enough to, so a critter that runs 50 yards in the woods is lost. And some states in the US STILL bar use of blood tracking dogs.

Thanks to some folks on this forum I petitioned the Idaho Fish and Game Department some years ago and got that law changed. The .30-30 would benefit if every rifle came with a trained dog!




Local guide and friend, Michael S. uses 3 Austrian tracking hounds. I do not remember the breed's name, but the black and tan hounds are phenomenal trackers, whether for bear or moose.

Not only good trackers, but if the animal is not mortally wounded, they seem to know and will not track it. This is especially important with archery hunts as poor hits will usually heal in a few days, with the Moose being non-the-worse for wear.
Lost non-fatally wounded moose are usually 'collected' later that year, or the next by clients. The animals having totally healed cuts.
By using the dogs, a mortally wounded animal is always found and usually not far from where it was hit. We don't chase game - the shot is made, if poor or not & the animal does not drop within sight, back to camp and get the dogs.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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Sarg
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Re: .30-30 in Africa.. [Re: DarylS]
      #324125 - 01/02/19 06:40 AM

I think Bullets/Projectiles do all the work/killing, so good bullets & good stalking/hunting + placement get it done !

These things don't happen all the time for versus reasons .

For the sake of the animals & enjoying your African hunt (less wounding & less lost TF) use a 30/06 with good 180gr slugs to start with, if you shoot your 35 Whelen 338.. 9.3.. well use one of them, again good bullets !

The head PH & I both have our Dachshunds with us on the truck or in the blinds when hunting non DG they help a lot to find animals, then I go get a real tracker if we can't find/track it !

I'm getting better but my eyes just aren't up to it, more so 6-9 hours on a track/animal !



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Ripp
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Re: .30-30 in Africa.. [Re: 9.3x57]
      #324145 - 02/02/19 03:09 AM

Quote:

RIPP, exactly!!!

BTW: Mine and my daughter's experience, of course only reflecting that of many, many others, with the 7.62x39 makes me convinced that the .30-30 would benefit by the use of modern 125 grain bullets and held to only side shots on deer AND held to about 100 yards range would be superior to the old slow 170's whichsupposedly go 2200 fps but in reality only approach 2000. 125's would run about the same speed as the Commie service round. We shot some decent sized deer and in fact, one of the largest we've ever shot was shot by my then-15 or so year old daughter and that being a frontal shot. And THAT bullet due to a long-story...a Wolf HP! Velocity matters on thin stuff and that monsters ran about 60 yards and piled up.

One of the things I appreciate about this forum is the Euro influence here with their experience with tracking dogs.

IMO a lot of those deer and even elk that are thought to have been missed or hit poorly have been actually hit right but so many folks simply are incapable of and worse, simply will not track game or even worse yet, don't care enough to, so a critter that runs 50 yards in the woods is lost. And some states in the US STILL bar use of blood tracking dogs.

Thanks to some folks on this forum I petitioned the Idaho Fish and Game Department some years ago and got that law changed. The .30-30 would benefit if every rifle came with a trained dog!




AGREE with this ..

And I do remember when that petition was going around..that was around the same time there was such a primer shortage and I shot some over to you..maybe?? Gald it worked out.. was talking to some folks last week from Maine while I was in NJ..they were talking about how the lefties are trying to take away baiting in their state.. AGAIN... I suggested they start baiting "them".. just set traps around an area with a lot of free shit on it..they will come in droves..

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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9.3x57
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Reged: 22/04/07
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Re: .30-30 in Africa.. [Re: Ripp]
      #324149 - 02/02/19 04:27 AM

Yes, that was it! All of those primers went bang, too!

"I suggested they start baiting "them".. just set traps around an area with a lot of free shit on it..they will come in droves.. "

One of the funniest lines I've heard in a long time.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: .30-30 in Africa.. [Re: 9.3x57]
      #324168 - 02/02/19 08:05 PM

The main reason one does not see the .30/30 in Africa is probably because safaris are so expensive, why would one take such a less than ideal choice of firearm, unless one is wealthy and has a dozen safaris already under one's belt ...

A .308 Winchester or .30-06 will do everything better than a .30/30.

Having said that, some clients, who have had the experience of many safaris do sometimes take "niche" choices such as Marlin .45/70's etc etc.

Lever actions were seen in Africa, in the hands of Roosevelt, the Johnson's and probably other Americans. Mentioned in the fictional book(s) "King Solomon's Mines". Probably a good fast shooting, "large" capacity magazine choice for short range shooting when unruly savages and cannibals were a proble ... the assault rifle of the day!

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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Rule303
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Re: .30-30 in Africa.. [Re: Sarg]
      #324170 - 02/02/19 09:16 PM

As Sarg say's it is the bullet(Construction) and shot placement. I can believe some of those who claim to have hit an elk 3 times in the lung and lost it. That is if using a projectile that is too hard and pencils through. Have seen this with Sambar deer-Indian elk- 30 odd blokes and dogs looking for one shot through both lungs from 5 meters with a 30-06. 220grain pill that was too hard. Some bone and bright red bubbly blood found. Deer put up 2 hrs later and bloke didn't take a shot, never found it after that. It may have traveled several miles and died or laid in mud closed the holes and lived. They have been known to do this. I know of Sambar that have been taken with a 30-30 but it would not be my choice for Elk.

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9.3x57
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Re: .30-30 in Africa.. [Re: NitroX]
      #324174 - 03/02/19 12:41 AM

Nitro, I think you summed it up well.

Regarding the following...

Quote:

Lever actions were seen in Africa, in the hands of Roosevelt, the Johnson's and probably other Americans. Mentioned in the fictional book(s) "King Solomon's Mines". Probably a good fast shooting, "large" capacity magazine choice for short range shooting when unruly savages and cannibals were a problem... the assault rifle of the day!




When I was in South Africa in 88 and 89 I know the regular Marlin 336 CS model was discussed locally and somewhat in demand, tho I don't think many made it over there. Some did and I saw them for sale. The advantages of the type were that one didn't need a special license for it like one did for semiauto's and if a guy wasn't in the Citizen Force but wanted a handy and relatively light and handy rifle for self protection such a rifle then as always made a pretty good idea.

Sliding off-topic, here...in truth, a .44 Magnum levergun has all of those qualities for short range and more bullets to-boot, now as in the late 19th century when a variety of tube mag-fed lever and pump .38-40's and .44-40's were common as dirt and then as now the ammo for the longarm was right at home in the side-arm, too. The .38-40 was the "10 mm" of its day as it still is today!

This not to mention some of the smaller calibers in levershuckers.

Let's remember Bell, when trekking and not actually hunting, often carried Bom-Bom, his little Mauser 96 in 9mm Export caliber. Very smart guy that Bell. And he'd have been as or even better equipped with a handy "high capacity" tube-fed levergun as well.

Heck, isn't it the case that Winchester M92 .44-40's were once upon a time popular in Oz???

Truth is, the pistol-cartridge levergun is a tremendously handy weapon and maybe the most naturally-pointing of all guns ever made?

And if it's a Winchester 94 Paratrooper® Model, it's even handier than that!



--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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Ripp
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Re: .30-30 in Africa.. [Re: 9.3x57]
      #324181 - 03/02/19 04:13 AM

Good stuff..

I was thinking the same thing on revolver/rifle cartridges.. my choice might be the 460S&W..interchangable with 454 Casull and 45 Colt..would make for a handy combo..

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ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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DarylS
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Re: .30-30 in Africa.. [Re: Ripp]
      #324183 - 03/02/19 05:11 AM

The .460 S&W is quite a round. I found a couple once fired cases at the range.
It would make a dandy ctg. for a light single shot like a Ruger #3.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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9.3x57
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Re: .30-30 in Africa.. [Re: DarylS]
      #324186 - 03/02/19 06:04 AM

Quote:

The .460 S&W is quite a round. I found a couple once fired cases at the range.
It would make a dandy ctg. for a light single shot like a Ruger #3.




That's for sure!

It's amazing how such short little rounds equal or better the performance of many of the much bigger BP rounds of the 1800's, too.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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Rule303
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Re: .30-30 in Africa.. [Re: 9.3x57]
      #324195 - 03/02/19 08:12 AM

9.3 I like your paratrooper model.

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Sarg
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Re: .30-30 in Africa.. [Re: 9.3x57]
      #324196 - 03/02/19 08:15 AM

The 460 S&W is awesomely powerful but it has some thing to do with the 65,000 P.S.I to get that power, load up a 32/20 to 65,000 P.S.I & we would gain some power also lol !

Yes cool little lever gun, I have a Marlin 336 LTS (Little Texan Safety Carbine) 16in barrel, great to carry but man it blasts your ears off !


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DarylS
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Re: .30-30 in Africa.. [Re: Sarg]
      #324208 - 03/02/19 12:58 PM

|Years back when they first came out, I bought a Win. M94 Trapper in .45 Colt.
I had just found and read an article by Ross Seyfried about loading .45 Colt to .44 mag pressures. He had the help of Hornady's pressure equipment.
What it amounted to was 25.0gr. of W296 with a 300gr. bullet.
Ross was working with handguns while I was primarily interested in the rifle.
The rear of the chamber was scooped out like a 1911 Colt for a feed ramp, so this was the weak spot on this particular rifle. Ross noted Fed brass was the strongest, but I found RP to be considerably stronger yet, so that's what I used.

With sized down .300gr. Hp's (I hollow pointed one cavity in my RCBS mould), lubed in a .459" Lyman die then sized them down in a .452" Lyman or RCBS die in an RCBS Lubsizer.

Worked up to the 25.0gr. and they chronographed 1,584fps, which matched exactly, what the BP .45/90 Winchester gave out of the model 95 single shot.

I shot 2 elk with that load, worked a charm.

After that, I went heavier and with different powder, developed to the same case expansion I got with the .44 mag. pressure loads and in only the RP brass. They NEVER gave a pregnant appearance, however the Fed brass did, as well as the much weaker Win. brass.
Those loads, with Winchester 630 powder, drove 340gr. bullets to 1,774fps, matching I think, the .450 #2. buddy of mine wanted it for his wife, so I sold it to him, cheap, as always.
All THAT from a .45 Colt in a 16" bl. Go figure.


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: .30-30 in Africa.. [Re: DarylS]
      #324585 - 12/02/19 06:35 AM

While I would love a good condition old vintage lever action, perhaps in .44/40, I do like the idea of a lever action and revolver combination shooting the same round. In my case the .357 Magnum would probably be the choice. Plenty of handguns to choose from, but how many good lever action rifles?

What the .357 rifle would be good for, is the second question?

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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Re: .30-30 in Africa.. [Re: 9.3x57]
      #324586 - 12/02/19 06:38 AM

Quote:



Heck, isn't it the case that Winchester M92 .44-40's were once upon a time popular in Oz???




Yes the Winchester 92 was once popular in Australia, especially among outback cattlemen and cowboys, in the outback to the Top End.

The Win 92's in .44/40 were also used to shoot water buffalo for the hide trade. But the shooting was done from the back of a horse, which could run away if needed.

In gun auctions there are often a fair number of Win 92's with half or full magazines listed.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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CarlsenHighway
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Re: .30-30 in Africa.. [Re: 9.3x57]
      #327573 - 22/04/19 01:55 PM

Back before WW1, Charles Cottar used a Winchester in .32 Special on everything except elephant. He recommended it for lions.
Later in life, he was trampled to death by a rhino.

Make of this what you will.

--------------------
If you carry a cat home by the tail you will receive information valuable to you for the rest of your life.
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rigbymauser
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Re: .30-30 in Africa.. [Re: CarlsenHighway]
      #327578 - 22/04/19 03:27 PM

Quote:

Back before WW1, Charles Cottar used a Winchester in .32 Special on everything except elephant. He recommended it for lions.
Later in life, he was trampled to death by a rhino.

Make of this what you will.




I guess everybodys luck will run out sometime. I think I read Charles was run over when filming a charge.


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DarylS
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Re: .30-30 in Africa.. [Re: rigbymauser]
      #327594 - 23/04/19 04:10 AM

A 16" to 20" bl. in .357 Mag would be a good platform for descent loads using the 180gr. Speer FP's for smaller deer, hogs and goats.
I would prefer a .44 Mag., or .45 Colt chambering, though.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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